Four Reasons Finland’s Schools are Better Than Ours

[Lorien]

http://www.care2.com/causes/education/blog/four-reasons-finland-s-schools-are-better-than-ours/

(snip)

Third, administrators from principals to school superintendents are all former teachers. No one is allowed to oversee the education of Finnish children in any role who hasn’t the educational training and experience. There are no exceptions. The idea that a business person or politician, who never taught, understands the learning process or should be in charge of reform would puzzle a Finn.

Fourth, Finland does not promote the idea of educating its young as a competition. Schools work in tandem and cooperation is the rule rather than the freakish exception. Interestingly, Shanghai – whose students bested Finland in math and science this year – also shuns the competitive model of school reform. In Shanghai, low performing schools are paired with and mentored by high performing ones with the emphasis on sharing techniques that work. Closing schools and firing teachers is simply not a choice.

More at the link above

[Drale]

1. Many people in this country

have this mentality that we have to be different then every other country to be better. So until that mentality changes, nothing is ever going to change in this country.

[LWolf]

2. I'm happy to kick and recommend this information once again.

I wish it could be pinned to the top of every forum where education policy is going to be discussed. I'll add the other 2 reasons Finland's schools are better than ours; the bolding is mine:

<snip>

"First, no child in Finland ever takes a standardized test. The only test a Finnish student takes is the one that determines if he/she will go on to university. In addition, standardized tests are not used to measure teaching ability or to compare schools. Parents, teachers and students assess progress and effectiveness of schools. Any comparison assessment relies on sample-based learning tests, which are low-stakes because the data is simply used in research to determine what works and what doesn’t. The Finns believe that education is a process, not a game to be won or lost.

Second, Finland put time and money into elevating the teaching profession. Parents and politicians regard teachers in the same manner they do doctors. In fact, the Finns trust schools more than any other institution except the police.

Teachers come into the profession with advanced degrees and they work with autonomy. Teachers are key players in determining curriculum and assessment, which might explain why the teaching profession attracts the best and brightest. After all, who wants to go into a profession where it is assumed you graduated in the bottom half of your class and couldn’t get into any other discipline at university?"

[stray cat]

3. So our teachers should be required to get advanced degrees and more rigorous preparation

but in return should get more autonomy. More like university professors.

[LWolf]

8. Actually, we already have many teachers with advanced degrees.

Some states require a Masters to get a teaching license. Some states require a BA + 30, which is just a few credits shy of a Masters. There's also the student teaching requirements and all of the testing to prove subject matter and pedagogical competency. Our teachers, unlike the TFA candidates, are already well prepared. They just don't get the respect, recognition, or autonomy that should go with that.

Not that we couldn't improve the preparation process. It's different in every state, and a teaching license is only good in the state it was issued in. Even with states that have so-called "reciprocity," a license doesn't transfer from one state to another without extra requirements, as I found out when I moved to another state.

I'd like to see a process recognized by every state, and a license good in any state. I'd also like to change the student-teaching process.

Still, our teachers DO get advanced degrees and DO undergo preparation. I was very impressed by the preparation my student teacher came in with last term, and with the requirements she had to fulfill while in my room.

[snagglepuss]

5. This sort of info should be a permanent fixture of the home page. nt

[Taitertots]

9. They don't take standardized tests, except when they are taking standardized tests

According to that article they certainly do test students. They don't just test, they don't let you go to college if you don't pass.

"Any comparison assessment relies on sample-based learning tests"
So they do in fact judge teachers based on testing.

[LWolf]

13. Wrong.

Students take tests. There's a difference between taking tests and taking high-stakes, standardized tests.

Let's look at that again:

<snip>

"Parents, teachers and students assess progress and effectiveness of schools. Any comparison assessment relies on sample-based learning tests, which are low-stakes because the data is simply used in research to determine what works and what doesn’t."

In other words, parents, teachers and students assess, not teachers, but progress (STUDENT progress) and school effectiveness. It doesn't say anything in there at all about using student test-scores to evaluate teachers. The phrase "Any comparison assessment" infers that a comparison assessment is possible, but not necessarily required or used in any standardized way. It also points out that "sample-based learning tests" are low-stakes, because the data is used to inform instruction, not to evaluate teachers. That's the point of looking at data to determine what works and what doesn't; to inform instruction. Believe it or not, teachers have been doing just that, using the data they collect in their classrooms, since long before the advent of high-stakes standardized testing. In addition, for decades before the high-stakes standardized testing movement, students who've planned on entering college have taken ACTS and/or SATS in the U.S., and have been admitted, or not, in part based on those test scores. These days many U.S. students, including those in my district, can't graduate from high school without passing a standardized test, let alone be admitted to college.

The real key here is the term "high-stakes." The data sampled is not used to compare teachers or schools to each other. Finland has a completely different perspective on education than the U.S.; one in direct opposition to ours. Theirs is a proven success.

[Taitertots]

14. What is higher stakes than determining if you go to college?

Which is exactly what the article claims they do if Finland.

The only major difference is that Finland doesn't punish the poor with inferior schools.

[LWolf]

15. Determining what school you go to, what kind of teachers are allowed

in your classrooms, whether you are promoted or not...those are all higher stakes. Not to mention the high-stakes for the entire system, which doesn't exist at all in Finland.

Not every student wants to go to college. Not every student should. We need plenty of people working in trades that don't require college. Personally, I'd like to see the U.S. create an excellent system of trade schools for those people. I'd like students who don't value the kind of skills that are required to enter and succeed in college to have other viable choices besides becoming cannon-fodder or part of a pool of cheap labor. That's what's happening to all those students who can't cut the standardized mustard in the U.S. now. As a matter of fact, in many places, MORE students aren't graduating, and, for those that want those pools of cheap labor and cannon fodder, that's the whole point, isn't it?

I haven't seen any info from Finland that says they can't re-take that single standardized test required to enter college if they don't make it on the first attempt, have you? The bottom line is that the years they spend learning are about that learning, not about passing that single test.

[Still a Democrat]

19. So

Tests to evaluate teacher or school performance - high stakes, bad.
Tests to determine if a kid goes on to college - not so high stakes, good.

[customerserviceguy]

21. Well stated

You've hit the nail on the head. All teachers are equal, but of course, all students aren't.

I will give US teachers this: they don't have the social problems in Finland that we do here, that our educational system has to deal with.

[Still a Democrat]

24. Completely agree about social problems and ethnic diversity being challenges

But the arrogance of referring to testing that might be used to compare teachers or schools as high stakes and unacceptable while tests to determine if a student goes on to college aren't because not everybody needs to go to college is breathtaking.

[customerserviceguy]

26. I was hoping that you'd find

my statement about all teachers being equal as sarcasm. Sometimes I forget to label it as such.

[Yupster]

70. My number one reason for the problems of education

is the large percentage of students who come to school with never married parents.

That is such a huge burden for a mother, especially a young poor, uneducated one.

Solve the problem of unmarried teenage births and the education system gets better. And so does the prison rate, poverty rate and crime rate.

To me it's the underlying problem of our country today just like Senator Moynihan warned 50 years ago as the percentages started to become noticable.

[LWolf]

28. High-stakes tests...bad. Period.

High stakes tests do not improve learning, do not improve the system, do not improve teacher performance, do not improve ANYTHING.

Proving qualifications for higher level studies, whether through a test or other means...necessary. Or you could simply let students enter university courses and fail if they are not ready. That's more costly to all involved than the test.

I'm sorry you can't see the difference.

The difference between asking students to demonstrate readiness and the difference between using a test as a weapon against the public education system.

Perhaps someone from Finland can explain it to you better than I:

Finland is at the other end of the educational spectrum. Its education system is modeled on American progressive ideas. It is student-centered. It has a broad (and non-directive) national curriculum. Its teachers are drawn from the top 10 percent of university graduates. They are highly educated and well prepared. Students never take a high-stakes test; their teachers make their own tests. The only test they take that counts is the one required to enter university.

Last week, I went to a luncheon with Pasi Sahlberg, the Finnish education expert. I asked him the question that every politician asks today: "If students don't take tests, how do you hold teachers and schools accountable?" He said that there is no word in the Finnish language for "accountability." He said, "We put well-prepared teachers in the classroom, give them maximum autonomy, and we trust them to be responsible."

I asked him if teachers are paid more for experience. He said, "Of course." And what about graduate degrees? He said, "Every teacher in Finland has a master's degree." He added: "We don't believe in competition among students, teachers, or schools. We believe in collaboration, trust, responsibility, and autonomy."

http://blogs.edweek.org/edweek/Bridging-Differences/2010/12/the_real_lessons_of_pisa.html

And it works. Amazingly, it is "modeled on American progressive ideas;" those ideas that are scorned in America in favor of neoliberal privatization, union-busting, and authoritarian, top-down control by non-educators.

[Still a Democrat]

34. Oh, I understand perfectly

Tests are fine so long as they only have ramifications for students. And whether there's a word for it in the Finnish language or not, I'm a firm believer in accountability for teachers and schools.

[LWolf]

36. Low-stakes tests don't have ramifications for students,

other than being one way for them, their parents, and teachers to check how they are doing. Apparently, you are not a "firm believer" in a system that takes American progressive ideas and builds a successful system that far outperforms the current American neo-liberal system, but you are a "firm believer" in a system that does nothing to actual improve student opportunity and outcomes.

Your choice, but it's not exactly a strong position. "Firm belief" doesn't make anything more valid.

I think that one of the reasons our nation is devolving into the mess that it's in is because people base their positions on "firm beliefs" rather than reality. The reality, in this case, is that Finland does it better, and one of the biggest reasons is that they don't attack and tear down their schools and teachers. Instead, they respect and support them.

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Still a Democrat]

60. So do you believe in accountability for teachers and schools?

You were pretty taken with the claim there is no Finnish word for "accountability".

Do you believe in it?

[kenfrequed]

79. I believe in results and data.

Finnish schools out perform ours.

Rather than wasting time with Bush-sucking No child left behind BS and constantly testing to provide a rationale for closing schools with an absurdly low tax base to support them to increase the size of classes for students that come from poor families that have been underexposed to ideas and education growing up, we should make school the one place where we can attempt to elevate and equalize the education experience as much as possible.

Punishing schools and teachers by deprivation of funds is empty political BS rhetoric that accomplishes nothing. It is like putting a starving man on a diet to to teach the local food shelf a lesson about the value of food. It makes no sense.

[LWolf]

102. Of course I do.

Poor teachers make our jobs much more difficult.

I don't, however, think making teachers and schools scapegoats for societal failures is acceptable.

Hold teachers and schools accountable for building a strong relationship with the communities they serve, for providing a safe, welcoming environment, and rich, and equally rich, opportunities to learn within the limits they operate under. If you don't like those limits, give them the resources to extend them.

Hold students accountable for making use of those opportunities.

[roody]

51. I wish that you and everyone with your ideas would

sit and take one of these standardized high-stakes tests, elementary level if you wish. You would know so much more about the subject.

[Kajsa]

68. There is nothing wrong with accountability.

There is something inherently wrong with spending valuable instruction time
teaching to the test instead of teaching the subject matter to the students!

And, NO!- they are not one and the same.

:(

[kenfrequed]

78. Ok

So if a poor school is a poor preformer then so far the use of No Child Left Behind has been to cut funding to those schools.

I imagine if a school has to work with students from poor families where there was less nurture time available from parents due to a single parent household or a double income househould, that those students would perform Brilliantly. (maximum available sarachasm afforded)

Of course the real goal is some kind of free market fundamentalism where public education is defunded in favor of private for profit schools run by Edisonlearning and Edison Inc.

No, whatever you are quibbling about in terms of testing, Finland has the correct model in terms of outcomes. If we really are concerned about relative levels of education and not just teacher-bashing 'get-tough' political rhetoric, then we should be seeing what elements of those school systems we can adopt.

[Hannah Bell]

39. US colleges typically require sats or comparable tests. graduate schools typically require

gre's or tests specialized for the field e.g. lsat's.

not sure what your point is.

college testing has nothing to do with high stakes testing in grade school, jr high school, high school.

european & asian schools typically track students way earlier than the us does. and gives them fewer second chances.

that's their weakness, not their strength.

During the first years of primary school (in finland), grading may be limited to verbal assessments rather than formal grades. The start of numerical grading is decided locally. Most commonly, comprehensive school pupils are issued a report card twice a year: at the ends of the autumn and spring terms.

Compherensive school students enjoy a number of social entitlements, such as school health care and a free lunch everyday that covers about a third of the daily nutritional need.<2> In addition, pupils are entitled to receive free books and materials and free school trips in the event that they have a long or arduous trip to school.

Secondary education consists of a dual system, which has separate schools for occupational training and preparing students for tertiary education. Vocational schools prepare students for employment and develop vocational competence. Upper secondary schools aim to give students all around education, which prepares students for tertiary education. The system is not rigid: vocational school graduates are formally qualified for tertiary education and upper secondary school graduates may enroll into a vocational education program. It is also possible to attend both vocational and upper secondary school at the same time.

Vocational school graduates receive a vocational school certificate. Upper secondary school graduates receive both upper secondary school certification and matriculation examination.

Those in special programmes may receive a vocational school certificate and matriculation examination (kaksoistutkinto) or all of the three certifications (kolmoistutkinto).

Upper secondary and vocational school certifications are more important in polytechnic admissions and the matriculation examination is more important in university admissions. However, there are exceptions and many tertiary education programmes have their own admission examinations.

Upper secondary school concludes with a nationally graded matriculation examination. The examination was originally the entrance examination to the University of Helsinki, and its high prestige survives to this day.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:8T3-o1nsEEEJ:en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_Finland+finland+education&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us


i.e. there is *one* high stakes test, the national exams given at the end of high school for university admissions. that's because all finnish universities are state-run.

the main difference between the system in the us is our college entrance exams aren't national; different schools require different exams (or sometimes none). and our community college system, although there's something like it in finland.

there is no system of regular high stakes testing starting in primary school, which is what the ed deformers are bringing under the guise of "reform".

students who don't go to universities can still get good jobs in finland. polytechnic degrees can be as valuable as university degrees depending on the field.

and polytechnic graduates can continue their education, so not going to university at the "normal" time doesn't condemn you forever, as it does more or less in some places (e.g. japan):

Polytechnic-graduated Bachelors are able to continue their studies by applying to Master's degree programmes in universities. These take two years in general, but the polytechnic graduates are often required to undertake perhaps a year's worth of additional studies to bring them up to the level of university graduates.

Finland also has an extensive adult education system. In short, it's a system that gives "second chances," as the US does.

That's a good thing.

In conclusion, there is no system of high stakes testing like the ed deformers want in finland.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

72. Yes, because there is such a thing as individual aptitude for college

NCLB imposes group punishments. It takes the approach, "Floggings will continue until morale improves."

[Taitertots]

30. Those are all determined by testing, it is in the article

Testing to determine if students get into college is certainly high stakes. Whether or not it can be retaken isn't really important. They still have standardized tests and the stakes are certainly higher.

" Any comparison assessment relies on sample-based learning tests, which are low-stakes because the data is simply used in research to determine what works and what doesn’t"
They do test students to see what works. They just don't base teacher pay or school funding directly on the results. This is what I advocate.

[LWolf]

35. ???

I'm truly confused. First you said, "Those are all determined by testing, it is in the article." That's simply not true. The only thing determined by testing in Finland is college acceptance.

Then you re-quoted the part about sample-based testing being used to inform instruction, instead of basing teacher pay or school funding on the results, and said that is what you advocate.

So...I assume you do NOT advocate high-stakes testing, therefore do NOT support the uses of high-stakes testing in the U.S.?

You DO acknowledge that Finland has a better system, partly because they do NOT misuse tests and other assessments?

[Taitertots]

40. Lets see if this clears it up

I'm saying that they certainly do use testing to judge the effectiveness of teachers. They don't directly base teacher pay or school funding on this data. They fund teachers and schools, while using the data to determine what is working. It was in the article and I quoted it. "Any comparison assessment relies on sample-based learning tests, which are low-stakes because the data is simply used in research to determine what works and what doesn’t".

High stakes or low stakes is an arbitrary distinction. The Finnish people certainly do test students and judge the education system based on this. Your opinion of "high-stakes" is arbitrary. For example you don't consider college admissions tests as high stakes, while many other people do. I support testing, some high stakes in your opinion. The key factor is what the results of the tests are used for. If they are used to determine what works and what doesn't, then the testing is good. If it is used to punish teachers for factors outside their control than it is a bad thing.

I acknowledge that the Finnish have a better system. This is because "Children in Finland can attend school anywhere in the country and be assured of the same quality of education". In addition to this, they don't misuse tests. They certainly do test, but they don't misuse the results.

[LWolf]

101. Okay.

I think I'm understanding you better. I just don't agree. There is nothing in any of the articles I've found that suggests that they use tests to judge the effectiveness of teachers, for example. The use of data to determine what's working is a common working tool for teachers; we use it to adjust what we're doing in the classroom as necessary. It's a flexible thing. What works for one student, or one group of students, doesn't necessarily work for another. That's how we determine what works best for the specific students we're serving NOW. It's not about judging teachers. It's about diagnosing need, prescribing, and documenting the effects, adjusting as necessary.

Perhaps you need to have actually been part of that process to understand it?

High and low stakes...not arbitrary at all. For decades our students in the U.S. took standardized tests; in some states, once in elementary, once in middle, once in hs; in some, once a year. Those were low stakes. They were used as a small part of the overall picture of student progress. The scores were norm-referenced and used to give parents an idea of how their child compared to the group the test was normed on.

Those tests did not set policy, drive instruction, or threaten teachers' pay or jobs, or students' schedules or graduation from hs.

I probably don't see college entrance exams as "high stakes" because I don't think everyone wants to, or should, go to college, so the stakes aren't as high. I DO think everyone should graduate from high school, and I DO think that there should be trade schools outside of the military for those who don't want to attend college.

We do agree on the misuse of tests. That misuse actually makes the overall system worse, not better. If you want to see the system improve everywhere in the country, we're going to have to have a conversation about state rights vs federal. I support one national teaching license that is equally valid in every state. I support a broad national curriculum with room for flexibility. I'd love to see every school in the nation be given the support they needed to thrive, both with dollars and policy. Outside of that, I'd rather leave the specifics to local schools and districts. In the hands of the experts.

[JackintheGreen]

59. Your second sentence isn't necessarily a bad thing

As a former public school teacher, college instructor, and reader of many senior theses let me tell you:

There are assloads of college students (let's say 18-22) who cannot form a logical argument, do simple mathematics (I mean fractions, percentages, etc), write a coherent sentence or even follow rules of grammar. A test guaranteeing that there exists a certain baseline ability prior to college could go a long way to making college something more than it seems to be today: high school redux. And I've worked at Ivy's, so this isn't reducible to class issues at the secondary school level, either. (though there are certainly problems there, too, to which I am not blind.)

[kenfrequed]

80. Hmm that reminds me of something...

My history degree was from a public university but when I decided, for my own mental edification, to just watch through and read the material from some of the Ivy Leagues using Open Coursework. I learned (or rather confrimed) that the course material was little different from the University of Minnesota, and some of it was really bordering on the Community college level.

I wonder how we justify a system of higher education that promotes absolute classist divisions in society based on where we got that little scrap of paper on the wall and how much we paid for it.

Sorry completely off topic.

[xchrom]

4. Recommend

[Zorra]

6. Fifth, everyone in Finland

goes to Finnishing School.

(I know; I'm bad)
:spank:

[ChazII]

7. Bad, perhaps

but a little humor now and then is a good thing. :D

[Davis_X_Machina]

10. They're in Finland, for a start... n/t

[Codeine]

11. They're also teaching a small culturally and linguistically homogeneous

student population.

[Ikonoklast]

27. Languages in the New York City School system...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Department_of_Education

About 40% of students in the city's public school system live in households where a language other than English is spoken, and one-third of all New Yorkers were born in another country. The city's Department of Education translates report cards, registration forms, system-wide alerts, and documents on health and policy initiatives for parents into Spanish, French, German, Chinese, Japanese, Urdu, Persian, Hindi, Russian, Bengali, Haitian Creole, Korean, and Arabic.

And that's just NYC.


Don't think they have that problem in Finland.

[liberation]

50. How many languages are spoken in Wichita, Kansas?

[Ikonoklast]

96. 14% of all students in Wichita are not native English speakers.

What else ya got?

[proud2BlibKansan]

97. Quite a few actually

There is a growing immigrant community in Wichita.

[JackRiddler]

55. Please explain what differences in policy the heterogeneity of US schools requires.

The point of the OP is that Finland, which is often presented as a model for US schools by the current crop of US "reformers," is successful using a different model from what the US "reformers" demand: for example, Finland has a stronger teachers union and all administrators must have teaching experience, etc. You answer that the US is more heterogeneous, but I don't see why that means the (real!) Finnish model can't be followed here. So okay, what differences in policy from Finland does this heterogeneity demand?

[Codeine]

69. I don't think it requires a different policy at all.

Their system is obviously a sound basis for quality education. But I also do not think our results, should we implement a system similar to theirs, will be on par with those achieved by the Finns. We have hurdles and obstacles which they do not.

[JackRiddler]

76. Okay, thanks for clearing that up.

[kenfrequed]

81. But it would be an improvement.

Whereas the NCLB method of depriving poor schools and the repuke idea of privatizing the hell out of public education are doomed to be abject failures.

They are both ideas born of minds that are constantly looking at social programs to assure they are budget neutral or as a giveaway to corporate interests.

Gods we really need to get it together.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. Not really. There is a Swedish-speaking minority in Finland,

and no, the two languages are not at all related.

Furthermore, ALL the Western European countries, now have populations of Third World immigrants.

[Kajsa]

86. This is true, Lydia.

When I was in Helsinki and Turku back
in 1971, the street signs were in Finnish
and Swedish.

Most Finns I met spoke Swedish very well.

[Demoiselle]

77. Bingo.

How do we even establish standards that work all over this huge, incredibly diverse country, with its 50 different state governments, a gazillion local school boards and attitudes toward intellectual achievement that vary from admiration to resentment? Finland has just over 5 million people . We've got 308 million.
And then there's that allergy to spending any money on education that appears to afflict so many of us.
And, of course, the carefully nurtured notion that teachers don't give a poo about their students. (Hey, if they don't give a poo, why are they teaching? For the vast fortunes they earn? I'm being sarcastic here.)
Sigh. I don't have any answers, but thanks for the post.

[Lorien]

89. Are you kidding? With nearly our entire population glued to the TV six or more

hours every day we've become the fucking Borg. There's no variety of much of anything in America. If you travel much, you'll notice that most industrialized Nations have a huge population of immigrants. But few Nations are as homogenized as ours is because of our slavish obidience to the mainstream media. We are only superficially diverse since most are told what to think about an issue and obey; that goes for our political parties as well at this point.

[Starry Messenger]

12. k&r!

[hfojvt]

16. except they leave out a big one - homogeneity

"A quick note: For ourselves, we think it’s somewhat surprising that the U.S. scores this high in reading. Within the American student population, we have a rapidly growing number of deserving, delightful immigrant children. Many of these deserving kids come from low-literacy, low-income backgrounds; they may not even speak English, presenting an educational challenge for their American schools. Beyond that, we have a uniquely American situation based on our brutal racial history. Uh-oh! Among those 34 OECD nations, only the United States spent centuries aggressively trying to stamp out literacy among a major part of its population. The legacy of that benighted history lives with us today, although our “reformers” work very hard to avoid such painful discussions.

We’ve sometimes referred to the “Three Americas” in this context. (John Edwards miscounted when he said “two.” For an earlier discussion of this matter, see THE DAILY HOWLER, 10/4/10.) But only a nation in rapt denial would choose to avoid such discussions when answering Matthews’ question—the question which had him directing Big Major Fury at teachers. Why don’t American kids score at the top on international tests? Our brutal history is part of the answer, as is the immigration policy we maintain so people like Matthews can pay low wages to the people who care for their homes.

Why don’t Americans students score at the top? Here are the scores from that same reading test, broken down into demographics. Warning: When these test scores are rendered this way, we’re forced to look at the painful backwash of our brutal history:

Average score, reading literacy, PISA, 2009:

Korea 539
Finland 536

Canada 524 ..."

http://www.dailyhowler.com/dh122410.shtml

[LWolf]

31. From Linda Darling-Hammond:

http://www.nea.org/home/40991.htm

In a recent analysis of educational reform policies, Finnish policy analyst Pasi Sahlberg describes how, since the 1970s, Finland has changed its traditional education system “into a model of a modern, publicly financed education system with widespread equity, good quality, large participation—all of this at reasonable cost.” (Sahlberg, 2009, p. 2.) More than 99 percent of students now successfully complete compulsory basic education, and about 90 percent complete upper secondary school. Two-thirds of these graduates enroll in universities or professionally oriented polytechnic schools. More than 50 percent of the Finnish adult population participates in adult education programs. Ninety-eight percent of the cost of education at all levels is covered by government rather than by private sources.

Although there was a sizable achievement gap among students in the 1970s, strongly correlated to socio-economic status, this gap has been progressively reduced as a result of curriculum reforms started in the 1980s. By 2006, Finland’s between-school variance on the PISA science scale was only 5 percent, whereas the average between-school variance in other OECD nations was about 33 percent. (Large between-school variation is generally related to social inequality.)

The overall variation in achievement among Finnish students is also smaller than that of nearly all the other OECD countries. This is true despite the fact that immigration from nations with lower levels of education has increased sharply in recent years, and there is more linguistic and cultural diversity for schools to contend with. One recent analysis notes that in some urban schools the number of immigrant children or those whose mother tongue is not Finnish approaches 50 percent.

Although most immigrants are still from places like Sweden, the most rapidly growing newcomer groups since 1990 have been from Afghanistan, Bosnia, India, Iran, Iraq, Serbia, Somalia, Turkey, Thailand, and Vietnam. These new immigrants speak more than 60 languages. Yet achievement has been climbing in Finland and growing more equitable.

The bolding is mine. This is data addressing immigration and socio-economic status. Finland's system seems to be better at closing those gaps than ours.

I think that's because Finland actually WANTS to close those gaps, rather than using them as political weapons for neoliberals to bludgeon public education, privatize, and union-bust.

[Hannah Bell]

41. +100.

[hfojvt]

82. no, I think a key there is still "most immigrants are from places like Sweden"

that "most rapidly growing" line is a crock. For example,

1990 immigrants
Sweden - 10,000
Turkey - 17

2000 immigrants
Sweden - 10,700
Turkey - 50

By gosh, lookit how rapidly immigration from Turkey is growing - by 300%!!!!


Further, I know very well that immigrants from India are not the same as immigrants from Mexico. I roomed with an immigrant from India. He was a PhD student at the University of Nebraska. Sure he spoke Bengali, but he also spoke English from childhood.

[LWolf]

100. The data is a crock.

:eyes:

fyi, I've taught highly intelligent, and highly performing, immigrants from Mexico. I'm teaching a few right now.

It's true that they HAVEN'T spoken English from the beginning; their homes are Spanish only. That does make it more difficult for them, but it doesn't keep them from learning. Finland is not a monolingual nation, either.

If you are trying to say that U.S. schools have bigger challenges than Finland because of immigration, you are correct. All the more reason to promote a better, more supportive, less punitive system. Finland recognizes that; they've done a good job of narrowing the achievement gap between SES groups. Better than we. Of course, Finland also has smaller gaps between SES gropus to begin with; something else they understand and do better than we. I've said for many years that if the U.S. really wanted to improve student achievement, they'd start by addressing poverty appropriately.

Another issue in which we are racing in the wrong direction.

[Lorien]

90. Yep, exactly. nt

[liberation]

49. They are leaving it out because correlation does not imply causation.

Many Americans don't seem to grasp that basic concept it seems.

A similar breakdown among socio-economic groups (i.e. class) could be done among every other country, not just the USA. So in the end, the argument is moot.

[seabeyond]

62. that doesnt make sense. if you have such a wide and clear difference

as a result to testing in the cultures, it does not make it indicative of school, but something else. we are talking about the schools ability to teach. if they can teach asian and white.... then why are they not able to teach mexican and black.

[liberation]

66. You're right, trying to push racist BS makes much more sense than basic mathematical logic...

Whatever.

[seabeyond]

67. there is a problem that needs to be addressed for the health and welfare of these groups

of people, kids especially. i am concerned about the children that dont have a chance before they even start.

or

we can call someone a stupid name, ignore, and bury head.

that helps.

[liberation]

85. How exactly was I "burying my head?"

If you don't want racist comments to be pointed out, it is very simple: do not make them.

cheers.

[hfojvt]

83. right, it is racist BS to note we have a "brutal racial history"

it's not a breakdown by class either as much as it is by history and language.

[liberation]

88. No, that is indeed not racist. That is also not what the previous poster implied.

But by all means, let's keep implying that multiculturalism is the reason why our crappy schools perform like shit. That is like not racist in the least. No siree Bob.

I mean, it could not possibly be the ever lowering academic standards, the utter lack of proper funding, the rampant anti-intellectualism in our society, the brutal differences among socio-economic groups and classes, the fact that education in this country is viewed as being solely geared towards making good customers or leading to specific earning potentials, and it could most definitively not be the extreme lack of normalized funding among different school districts.

It must obviously be the fact that in the US we're hampered by having too many of those non-white and non-Asian students, you know those students who happen to have an excess of pigmentation and who can't be taught apparently, driving our averages down. Because obviously, there does not seem to be a single under-performing mostly white school district in the Midwest...

[hfojvt]

95. why do you mention "lowering academic standards"?

That seems to be a key piece of stupidity. First we note that students are not meeting the current standards, and to fix this, our brilliant answer is to raise the standards. It makes perfect sense if we have students who are not running six minute miles to raise the standards and require them to run five minutes miles. Once we do that, everybody will be fast!

But it simply is the case when you compare us to Finland that they do not have our history, nor our demographics.

When it comes to anti-intellectualism, I think a good example of that is people who call names instead of providing facts. At least that seems anti-intellectual to me.

[XemaSab]

93. Sobering assessment

:(

[WinkyDink]

17. U.S. public-school principals/supers were all classroom teachers.

[proud2BlibKansan]

23. That's not true

Even more so nowadays. All you need to do is take a test and if you pass, you're certified as an admin.

I personally know more than a handful of principals that have no teaching experience.

[Lifelong Protester]

29. In Wisconsin, and I'm guessing Minnesota (which is where I

earned my Ed. Leadership degrees, you have to have taught for 3 or so years before you are accepted in an administrative program.

My opinion is that all principals and supers should have to teach at least a period a day. Period.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. That USED to be the rule in every state, IIRC

I agree several years of teaching should be required before admin cert is granted.

[11 Bravo]

43. I've been a teacher for 37 years, and I don't know of one single admin ...

who didn't spend at least a couple of years in the classroom first.

[LWolf]

32. In my 28 year career,

I've worked for several principals that were not classroom teachers. More were, if you count PE as a classroom. They weren't academic teachers, anyway. I've also seen superintendents that were not classroom teachers.

The best principals I've worked for had a career in the classroom before they became admins. Fifteen years or more. Most, though, spent a couple of years in the classroom before "moving up." They couldn't wait to get out and start telling us how to do the job they didn't want to do.

[Reader Rabbit]

46. In the past, yes.

Not so much anymore. My district has a growing number of administrators who were never classroom teachers.

[Still a Democrat]

18. No mention of parents?

Oh that's only when the schools are failing.

[upi402]

20. Just need a political party that gets it n/t

[xor]

22. That almost seems like common sense, aye?

[Brickbat]

25. A small, homogeneous population with a cultural history of respecting education helps, too.

[Igel]

33. Wonderful posthockery.

Combined with a tablespoon of abductive reasoning.

Critical thinking depends crucially on facts. If you no nothing about Finland but what this article says, it sounds good. You *can't* think critically about it, all you do is take random shots and ask big fuzzy questions like, "What's he not saying that I should know?" When many basic assumptions hold things to be true that don't apply to Finland, you have to assume that what's left, what does agree with your assumptions must be the only causal factors. For instance. . .

That kids start school a year later in Finland, while in the US we push for EC programs. Oops. Finnish kids do better because of their homelife; American kids often do worse without the EC programs for the same reason.

That parents take their role in their kids' education seriously, while EC programs and politicians argue that it's the teacher's job to teach, don't blame the parents. If it's the homelife, it's what society's done to the parents. I feel your pain--now I want to feel the results of your votes.

That kids aren't tracked; but they are shunted into vocational and technical programs, so the "high schools" lose about half their kids. There's not a one-curriculum-fits-all mentality.

That Finnish kids face intense competition earlier than American kids, and this is highly motivating. When you know that about half of your class next year will be placed in a vo-tech program, and from there divvied out to vocational and technical, you realize that your grades, tests, and teacher evaluations matter. You want to go to college and your grades say that learning to use a cash register is going to be your 11th-grade major, you think there's no competition? Laughable.

That cultural and linguistic diversity, making many teachers find "culturally appropriate and relevant" means of teaching the same thing to 6 ethnicities speaking 3 languages isn't a problem in Finland. This wonderful "advantage" our kids have seems to not matter in many respects. In fact, it seems to have a wonderfully narrowing-the-mind quality while slowing down learning because understanding Russians, Chinese, Brazilians overseas doesn't matter if you understand the Latino-American, black-American, and Asian-American "experiences" in this country, esp. if you're Latino, black, or Asian American. Or something like that.

When a Finnish teacher tells a Finnish parent, "Look, your kid's slacking off" or "your kid's cheated, look" the response isn't, "How dare you insult my kid. I'm doing the best I can, you don't understand" or "What, my little Johnny wouldn't dare cheat, I'll be talking to your supervisor." Teachers don't have to document *everything* like they do here because most parents respect most teachers and they both know that parents are part of the teacher's team *and* vice-versa. Similarly, American teachers who look down at their kids' parents as bumpkins, no-nothings, etc., are far more rare because the teachers also respect the parents. My kid's teacher assumes we are part of her team, definitely junior partners and looked down at us. Both parents and teachers in Finland merit the respect and, to a large extent, earn it. In the US, teachers are condescending to parents and vice-versa. It shows. (Then again, that's an American "thang," isn't it?)

There are a lot of other factors that go into Finland's ed success. Some matter more than others; some that look to matter are correlations, not causal. But by all means let's believe that the real reasons are only those that support a specific agenda in domestic US politics and that somebody who's vested in the success of his agenda and politics over that of others, who believes that only he and his truly care about their and others' children, is going to tell the whole truth. Because some of the factors that help Finns educate their kids are so unthinkably wrong as to be impossible, we just overlook them. And then make overlooking them almost a point of pride.

Meanwhile, we say we don't want standardized tests but require accountability. My kid can't read? Let's cut off some employee's head, don't blame the victim. The entire system is set up to apportion blame. The president is responsible. Or Arne. Or the governor. Or the state BOE. Or the school district. Or the principal. Or the teacher. Everybody wants to duck the blame, so they have to find the "objective data" to apportion blame and cover their asses. To show they're actively "doing something"--whatever that means--they regiment. After all, if I'm responsible for my employees' actions I'm damned well going to regulate those employees so they don't do anything that'll get me in trouble. And make sure I document their performance for the lawyers.

The first question asked is wrong. It shouldn't be, "Who do I blame?" It should be, "I know the problem, in part--fully characterize the problem and then tell me honestly--what are all the causes?" Sometimes blaming the victim is a worse evil than blaming the innocent in order to protect those responsible. Except in a democracy politicians have a hard time pandering to the silently guilty majority when there's a nice scapegoat minority around, esp. when the "crisis" serves to increase their power and authority. Silly system, sometimes. Just less bad that the others.

[seabeyond]

63. excellent post. we never point out the difference that explain, we just say

their education is better cause of some numbers. i hate that. it makes us address non issue to solve a very real problem, ignoring the real issues.

thank you

[Stuckinthebush]

94. Best post of the thread

Thank you.

[vssmith]

42. Would they allow Arne Duncan to be Sec of Ed in Finland?

[chervilant]

61. Not no, but,

HELL no.

[MilesColtrane]

44. "Finland's Schools are Better Than Ours"

That's just not possible, because over 95% of Finland's teachers are union members!

http://www.oaj.fi/portal/page?_pageid=515,452376&_dad=portal&_schema=PORTAL

:sarcasm:

[MannyGoldstein]

45. Massachusetts' schools are better than Finland's

We kicked Finland's butt: http://www.doe.mass.edu/news/news.aspx?id=4457

But does anyone look to Mass schools as an example of a tried-and-true example of how to do things? Nah. Instead, we have Duncan's experiment - who knows how that will work out.

[avaistheone1]

53. I'm surprised to hear that.

Massachusetts has some pretty bad schools too. Some of the school districts there are really struggling.

[Codeine]

75. Wow.

Very interesting. My best-educated friends are all products of Mass schools. Then they moved to California, where the weather isn't ten kinds of non-stop misery. :evilgrin:

[grahamhgreen]

47. "waiting for superman", continually talks about Finland, yet never offers the Finnish solutions,

only privatization and breaking up unions.

[DirkGently]

48. It's almost like education isn't the same as widget-making.

[Lorien]

87. And that it isn't only intended to lead to a life of widget making

and widget buying.

[DirkGently]

98. Heresy! 8)

[avaistheone1]

52. Only 10% of the 5000 applicants each year are accepted to the faculties of education in

Finnish universities.

[Loudmxr]

54. Let's exchange language homogeneity with the metric system. OK?

[Enthusiast]

56. Thank you, Lorien. K&R!

:fistbump:

[dipsydoodle]

57. Cubas are too

Just search for links.

[TBF]

58. Recommended. nt

[Overseas]

64. K&R ! //nt

[2 Much Tribulation]

65. We're too busy assessing students instead of teaching. Finland has FREE schools through university

[Sparkly]

71. Excellent - Thanks for posting this!!!

:applause:

[baldguy]

73. This assumes that everyone wants to really improve public education.

The GOP has been trying to eliminate public education for 30 yrs, at least. Standardized tests, austerity budgets - even in prosperous times, strangling teacher's and other unions, getting MBAs to run the school systems, and diverting funding to charters that perform worse than the public schools all are intended to kill public education.

Learning should only be available to the elites who can afford it.

[DeSwiss]

84. K&R n/t

[Fearless]

91. Of course Arne Duncan and this administration are bought and paid for by corporations...

So clearly this will not be listened to.

[Uncle Joe]

92. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, Lorien.

[teacher gal]

99. Latecomer to this thread but

thank you for it!

[Nevernose]

103. For millionth time: we can't compare the US to those countries

In China, secondary schools are not compulsory and are all private. Only students who really want an academic education, and whose families have somehow sacrificed to get them that education, go to high school.

In Finland, secondary ed is free and private, but students are separated into academic schools and vocational schools. Think the kids at their vocational schools are taking the same tests as the kids in their academic schools? And their vocational high schools are actual vocational high schools, unlike the US, where a vocational high school is usually just sa regular high school with the same diploma as all the other high schools plus some window dressing.

The US is the only country I know of that tries to force all children, regardless of ability or interest, to receive the exact same education.

[seabeyond]

104. yup. repeated over and over, yet ignored. nt