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CNN's poll question about Wikileaks is not very "objective" at all.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 05:31 PM
Original message
CNN's poll question about Wikileaks is not very "objective" at all.
Edited on Sun Jan-02-11 05:43 PM by JackRiddler
First of all, I have no problem accepting that most Americans in the current environment disapprove of Wikileaks. That's likely to be true. Most Americans are woefully uninformed or misinformed about the world generally, at a time when Wikileaks has been subject to an extremely negative treatment in the US corporate media.

The CNN question was as follows:

"As you may know, a website called Wikileaks has displayed thousands of confidential U.S. government
documents concerning U.S. diplomatic and military policies. Do you approve or disapprove of the
Wikileaks website displaying these documents?"

They found an approval rating of 20 percent.

There is no such thing as a completely objective question. In the above, to say "documents concerning US diplomatic and military policies" is subtly different from the alternative, "logs from the Afghanistan and Iraq wars and cables from the State Department." The latter omits the positively-connotated word "US" but is an even more accurate rendering of what the documents actually are. One might object that many people won't even understand what "logs" or "cables" refer to, but this objection would only highlight the problem that the respondents may not be very well informed.

One of the essential elements of science is the idea of a means to control or compare. A truly scientific poll would provide a control for the tool employed. The tool employed in this case is the key question being asked.

It is possible to control for the effects of the question, by asking different questions of different sample groups (sorry if that costs more money, CNN) and comparing the results.

It is not a false statement, for example, to say that the cables released by Wikileaks "in part expose government corruption and corporate malfeasance," or "secrets about what the government is doing abroad," or "secrets the government would prefer not to see published." These phrases are no less "objective" than CNN's, as objectivity itself is contested. Regardless, they are factually true phrases.

If they'd included one of those phrases, the numbers would very likely be higher in approval. You would at the least have a basis for determining how much of the answer depends on how the question is phrased. You would better know what the bedrock approval or disapproval is at this time (i.e., regardless of how the question is phrased).

It is also not a false statement to say that "Wikileaks' release of the cables has been condemned by the US government." If they included that phrase, the approval numbers would probably be lower. (I believe the approval numbers are close to bedrock approval, i.e. that the 20 percent represent well-informed people who support Wikileaks regardless of the question, but who knows?)

Furthermore, a scientific survey would endeavor to see how well informed people were about the subject in the first place. If this is the first people are hearing about Wikileaks (true of many of them, without a doubt), they will be more likely to disapprove.

Therefore the approval question needs to be preceded by questions about whether one recognizes the name of Wikileaks, can say accurately what it is (e.g., an Internet based publication that releases confidential information fed to it by anonymous whistleblowers), can say what Wikileaks has released (e.g., Iraq and Afghanistan war logs, State Department cables), and so forth.

If they had added these very basic questions, you would know the differences between relatively informed and uninformed opinion. This is of obvious relevance: informed opinions tend to be more stable, uninformed opinions tend to shift around a lot as people learn more.

However, I submit that CNN's record as a news organization suggests they are not interested in informed opinion.

To repeat, Wikileaks and Assange have been bombarded with continuous attacks in the corporate media, including by CNN, and Assange has been likened to a TERRORIST!!! (magic word!) by no less a high-ranking figure than the Vice-President. It's little surprise that when the corporate media create a toxic atmosphere, their own polls later measure the presence of the poison.

Please recall what happened to ACORN when they were subjected to a media vilification campaign after the O'Keefe/Breitbart sabotage operation. The disapproval numbers for them were even worse.

The good news in the CNN poll is that TWENTY PERCENT of Americans have not bought the corporate media snow-job about Wikileaks and, as more stories from the cables come out and as people become better informed, that is likely to improve.

.

PS - If you haven't had a chance yet to read the many, many stories of government and corporate malfeasance that have been highlighted, exposed for the first time, or confirmed by the mere 1750 of 251,000 cables so far released, there is a growing compilation thread here on DU. Click on the first link in my signature line ("Old News"). People have been adding links to cable stories, and also to resources for searching the cables. So it's turning into a good resource for starting out. Do your due diligence and use wikileaks.ch to find and check the cables yourself!

.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry about the size of the last paragraph -- Try as I might, can't fix it. Weird.
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wtmusic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. There's a font tag right before the paragraph.
Edited on Sun Jan-02-11 06:12 PM by wtmusic
You should be able to delete the space between the paragraphs then re-insert. That usually works.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I changed that, but it still displays like that.
Thanks for the advice. I wanted slightly larger print, but used the wrong number. (100, but here that seems to mean point rather than pixels!) I've changed it a few times -- I even cut the font tag altogether -- but it still displays HUMUNGO. At least thanks to these posts people know it's not intentional, so feggedaboutit.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Good news: Bullshit now tied with polling.
Edited on Sun Jan-02-11 07:05 PM by JackRiddler
The Google Ngram tool is amusing. It measures the frequency of words in scanned books from the last 200 years (as a pct. of all words).

We've still got a long way to go before my favorite set of industries are called by their proper name (the Bullshit Industries), but for the first time "bullshit" is mentioned in print more often than polling:

http://ngrams.googlelabs.com/chart?content=propaganda%2Cadvertising%2Cmarketing%2Cpublic%20relations%2CPR%2Cmarketing%2Cpolling%2Cbullshit&corpus=0&smoothing=3&year_start=1880&year_end=2008
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. k
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. Your suggested question is the skewed one, since only a tiny fraction
of the 250,000 documents refer to the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.

And to argue that the word "U.S." makes this less than an objective question is nonsense. Your preferred reading is both vague and misleading.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Which of the several alternatives I suggested? I doubt you read (or understood) a thing I said...
Either that or your comments are about some different text that displays only on your screen.

Furthermore, Wikileaks had three major releases of US material this year, the first two being a couple of hundred thousand logs from the Afghanistan and Iraq occupations. You should learn things before playing.

Thanks for kicking!
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Wikileaks has released only a tiny fraction of the 250,000
Edited on Sun Jan-02-11 10:15 PM by pnwmom
cables it supposedly acquired from Manning. You should check your facts, unless you're deliberately trying to spread misinformation.

Also, none of your preferred formulations are a neutral statement of the issue. Which one do you think is?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Really, you're not helping yourself with this display.
Wikileaks released 77,000 logs from the Afghan war in April, and another 150,000 or so from the Iraq war last summer. These were and remain very big stories. The State Department cables are the third major release, and will be biggest of the three when finally out.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. We are talking about two different things.
Edited on Sun Jan-02-11 10:14 PM by pnwmom
I'm talking about the diplomatic cables, of which only a fraction have been released, and the release of which threatens ongoing diplomatic relations.

You're talking about logs related specifically to the wars, including the helicopter video.

The CNN question is broad and neutral enough to apply to all of the documents.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-02-11 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Right, okay. Who's next?
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
12. CNN is up to their eyeball in psywar.
Since Ted Turner sold his network, CNN has served power and profit at the expense of the First Amendment and We the People.

The company allowed active duty U.S. Army intelligence specialists work in the newsroom. They went along with Selection 2000. They helped sell America the idea that Saddam and Iraq had something to do with 9-11 and a whole lot more misinformation, disinformation, lies of ommission, untruths, truthiness, nuttery and plain old lying.

WikiLeaks, unlike ABCNNBCBSFixedNoiseNutworks, actually puts truth where it belongs: In the hands of We the People. This is (supposed to be, anyway) a Democracy. The quicker the American people understand what WikiLeaks have shown -- a corrupt government in cahoots with a corrupt national financial elite -- the sooner we'll be one again.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. This story of CNN's direct collaboration with US Army psyops cannot be repeated often enough, thanks
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. K & R
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 12:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. K & R! Fuck those fascist enablers.
CNN - Corporate News Nuisance

:kick:
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Towlie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
16. What really matters is what historians will say about Wikileaks many decades from now...
... and it's hard to imagine historians condemning a man who revealed truth to the world.

"To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth."

-- Jesus to Pilate, John, Chapter 18, verse 37.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. And most of that history won't be written by partisans of American empire -- if any.
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Still a Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
17. The CNN poll really hit a nerve - I've seen a half dozen threads spinning it
Wikileaks just doesn't have public support, and it shouldn't.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I don't doubt that a majority of Americans currently "disapprove" of "Wikileaks" when asked...
Edited on Mon Jan-03-11 06:51 PM by JackRiddler
thanks in part to CNN!

Polling is more a means for confirming what the media has already accomplished.

However, the question is designed to suppress "approval," and more than this: to create the impression that the likes of CNN defines authoritatively what Wikileaks is and means, and what your options are in having opinions about it. CNN is telling us what the terms mean, we are then allowed to choose among its options.

Media and for-profit polling rarely provide controls on their own questions, as I described, and never talk about issues of how questions affect results in their publication of polls. They also never talk about the most important sampling issues (such as that 70 percent of the "respondents" didn't respond, but hung up, or that 25 percent of the country can't be reached on a landline) but try to fig-leaf these out of existence with their invocation of sampling error (a minor issue by comparison, based on the idea that they've done everything right and scientifically and therefore the only question is sampling noise).
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
18. Good post. Thank you.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-03-11 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
19. TTT. Could someone put this on the greatest page, por favor?
This corporatist BS really needs more exposure.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-04-11 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. Thanks & Kick.
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