When did we accept the PNAC-RW meme that Iraq and Osama Bin Laden are connected?

[msanthrope]

In post after post on this board, I note that some people who have doubts as to propriety of the killing of Osama Bin Laden have raised repeatedly the specter of the death and destruction in Iraq--as if somehow, the death and destruction in Iraq should have washed the blood off of Bin Laden's hands.


What, precisely does Osama Bin Laden have to do with Iraq? Iraq was not involved in 9/11.

We did not go into war in Iraq because of 9/11. To assert that, you must believe the lies of GWB and Cheney.

The Iraqi people haven't expressed a desire for Bin Laden to avenge them, or otherwise represent them.

When you conflate Iraq and 9/11, you give credence** to the Right Wing meme that Osama Bin Laden and Iraq are somehow connected.

They are not.

Osama Bin Laden died because he killed 3,000 Americans.
We went to war in Iraq because of the desire for wealth and power on the part of PNAC and their ilk.

Only foolish people, IMHO, buy into the right-wing meme that 9/11 and Iraq have anything to do with each other.
And, to paraphrase our President, people who equate the death of Bin Laden with the deaths of innocent Iraqis need their heads examined.



**Knowingly or unknowingly?

[patricia92243]

1. Excellent, excellent post. If I could recommend 10 times, I would. n/t

[msanthrope]

7. Thank you. n/t

[Iggo]

2. I don't know. When did you accept that? (n/t)

[msanthrope]

3. Never. I just wondered at the conflation I see from some posters

who claim that Iraq has something to do with Bin Laden.

As if the sins of PNAC washed away the guilt of Osama.


I'm perfectly okay with accepting the truth of these two realities---

1) Bin Laden got shot for killing 3,000 Americans.

2) Iraq happened because PNAC and their ilk wanted it to.

[Richardo]

4. Who's 'we'?

It sounds more like false equivalency on the part of the hand-wringers, than an actual connection between Iraq and OBL.

[msanthrope]

6. YOu are correct--and I think it's time to challenge that false equivalency.

because it is based on acceptance of a right-wing meme....

[Bonobo]

16. Huh? What right-wing meme?

The US killed hundreds of thousands for no good reason at all. What meme are you talking about?

Why is it a false equivalency?

3,000 innocents vs. 300,000 innocents? (or more?)

You're right... it isn't equivalent at all.

[emulatorloo]

5. Not me, never. Thanks for posting this. A good reminder n/t

[Arctic Dave]

8. Completely agree. I am shocked at the amount of * apologist on here.

Dead OBL = So what, he was a terrorist. (would have been much much better to get him alive IMHO)

Iraq = War crime by * and his entire top cabinet members.(There is no grey area for this)

Now if Obama can keep from bombing every country in the region we might be able to finally call off this entire charade. Me thinks he is in love with Predator strikes though.

[patrice]

11. Fux Ewes has a healthy little colony on here. nt

[patrice]

9. What are some people saying? "...as if somehow, the death and destruction in Iraq should

have washed the blood off of Bin Laden's hands."

Are they saying that killing OBL is questionable, because we did worse by invading and occupying Iraq?

i.e. they are saying you can't be against the war on Iraq and for killing OBL? - so these would be anti-Capital Punishment types saying that sort of thing? - against any and all killing and against any and all wars of any kind for whatever reason.

While I don't necessarily agree with it, that is a recognizable moral position that is out there. I don't think such positions are predicated on anything like the comparison of one set of crimes to another and either equating them morally, or ranking crimes so we can determine how to react to/punish them. I believe the claim is that evil is what it is and their concern is with how we respond to it.

I'm not sure I understand what their position is as you describe it, but I agree with your position. OBL did the murders & destruction in NYC, BECAUSE he was a religious extremist. Iraq had nothing to do with that because he was a SECULARIST.

[patrice]

10. OBL did 9/11 BECAUSE he was a religious extremist. Saddam Hussein WAS A SECULARIST.

OBL hated Saddam Hussein. He even had a camp on the border of Saudi Arabia and Iraq for some time, the purpose of which was to recruit religious radicals in the region to go into Iraq and cause Saddam Hussein trouble.

They hated each other. They would have been at cross purposes if they had worked together. Their purposes would have cancelled each other out if they had shared the 9/11 project.

[Bonobo]

12. The ONLY relationship that exists is the commonality of 2 countries killing innocents.

OBL killed thousands of innocents and therefore deserves death, without trial, at the hands of what is essentially an execution squad.

The US killed hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis... so would it be a massive surprise if you found out that some people over there feel that US personnel deserve the same?

THAT is the problem with setting the precedent that it is acceptable to determine what is justice without a court of law involved.

[patrice]

13. Thank you, B!

:hi:

[Bonobo]

14. You are most welcome, my dear Patrice.

I am sure now people will say I am making Bin Laden into a "good guy" or some sort of similar thing... sigh.

[msanthrope]

17. Why would a court of law be involved?

Congress gave the president the authority on Sept 14 2001 to proceed under the AUMF.

Now, is the Iraqi parliment about to issue the same?

Because otherwise, you are arguing apples and oranges.

To dispel ANOTHER RW meme I've found on this site--Obama is a duly elected head of state. Osama is not.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

15. I always forget that -

not all of the posters have been here since the beginning, and have not had the benefit of the many years of intensive research/debunking/exposing that have gone on about Bin Laden/Afghanistan/Iraq over the early years of DU.

In some of the recent Bin Laden threads, I was shocked to see so many who unaware of basic things we have long known to be true.

As for this:

"Osama Bin Laden died because he killed 3,000 Americans."

That, too, is a meme that should be dismissed.

[defendandprotect]

18. And since when was it proven that OBL had anything to do with 9/11 ... FBI doesn't know that --!!

No one knows that -- OBL was the authorized "patsy" for 9/1l -- that's all!

US/CIA created/funded the Taliban/Al Qaeda -- we had 24/7 surveillance of that organization

and funded it up to 9/11 -- !!