"Forget it. It's Hopeless. We're fucked. I'm angry" is just not a philosophy I care to live by.

[cali]

I don't see how it does anything positive for anyone. Society may collapse. A meteor may hit the earth tomorrow, but I don't want to live in a state of fear and rage.

[WingDinger]

1. You don't live in Florida, you live in Cali, thank your lucky stars. I think.

[cali]

6. I don't live in California. I live in Vermont.

[TBF]

2. It's not a philosophy to live by - it's the reaction you'll see when people

figure out they've been screwed over by folks they trust. People then get through that stage and figure out how to handle it (hint if we are talking about anger at the democratic party you will not see the second part of it because it won't happen on this website).

[emulatorloo]

3. I agree. I will do what I can to make things better.

I'm certainly not going to get mired down in the predictions of speculative OP-EDs.

[vi5]

4. The problem is....

To be aware of this stuff, to think about it so much that you're driven to act on any of it or prevent any of it or to make any of it better, REQUIRES a state of fear and rage.

The only time my fear and rage goes away is when I say "Screw it. I just don't care" and try to put it all out of my mind and be numb to it. Which never lasts long, but the point is that to be compelled to do any of it requires the fear and the rage. If we weren't afraid and we weren't angry then we'd see no reason to do anything about any of it.

[cali]

7. How about when you're engaged in doing something you love

or learning something new or listening to music.

Here, have a great song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ok-CvnzzxPg&feature=channel

[vi5]

29. But that's kind of my point...

I'm all for escapism. And losing myself in music or movies or art or learning something.

But I do that stuff to forget about everything else and to not be so angry or enraged.

Which if that's what your advocating then I'm all for it. I just thought you were advocating not being angry or scared, but at the same time doing something about the things we were angry or scared about.

[yawnmaster]

37. what happens when one loves being angry? eom

[ElboRuum]

45. Fear and rage does not equal resolve.

Resolve is what is required. Fear and rage can paralyze. We only act when we think with clarity, and fear and rage are the enemy of clear thinking.

[gratuitous]

5. Depends on whether that's a way station or a destination

But there's nothing wrong with perceiving how fucked and hopeless things appear to be. What's worse is seeing that and simply accepting it as the way things are and are never going to change.

[Scurrilous]

8. K & R

:thumbsup:

[PoliticAverse]

9. I agree.

Hopelessness really isn't productive.
If you can't influence the big-picture you can concentrate on things
you do have influence over, even if ultimately it is just yourself.

[TBF]

10. "If you can't influence the big picture..." - you know what -

this is a really effective way to shut down conversation. Those in power love to separate, divide, and encourage poor folks to focus on themselves. Because if we all gang up on you, there are many more of us than you.

[cali]

17. say what?

uh, no. and I said nothing about influencing the big picture so why is that in quotation marks? and focusing on oneself can, of course, be either positive or negative. And who the fuckity fuck are you to speak for millions of people? Do tell.

[TBF]

24. I wasn't responding to you, clearly, I was responding to poster #9 -

and his intent to have folks focus on themselves. As I said to him, it's handy to have folks break down and do that, because then they are not fighting back against their oppressors. I am not speaking for millions of folks, obviously, only pointing out that when you look at income brackets in this country how many are wealthy? That's right, not very many. You've got at least 80% (low estimate) of the wealth held by 1% of the people. Just how long do you think people are going to put up with that?

[eleny]

11. That's why I kept the tv off today

It's better that I read books and some threads here at DU. There's no audible voice giving subjectivity to the words. I find it easier to keep my equilibrium.

[snagglepuss]

28. "There's no audible voice giving subjectivity to the words." An insightful

comment.

[eleny]

41. Remember when Michael Moore talked about the intense music played behind some news reports?

It was several years back. It stuck with me. Now when I hear Andrea Mitchell speaking like she's gossiping on the phone with a relative or Tamron Hall reading the news in such a breathless manner I get pissed off. I'm thinking, "Just tell me what's going on and I'll make my own mind up how I feel about it, thank you very much!".

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

50. Ole runforyerlife is a piece of work.

[Warren DeMontague]

12. Some people are simply happier being convinced that "WUR DOOOOMED!"

Dooomed! Dooooooomed!

[Bandit]

13. Tired of doing this

:banghead: Glad you are not

[abq e streeter]

14. "It's hopeless, we're fucked" may be the conclusion of an engaged, intelligent and analytic mind

And when you understand it didn't have to be this way, anger is one of the inevitable emotional responses. Perfectly normal and to be expected. But then you pick yourself up and continue to fight the bastards anyway.

[Parker CA]

15. Kick and Rec!!

[barbtries]

16. i'm with you.

gotta be a better way.

[FedUpWithIt All]

18. Having a warm home, protective clothing, cooked food, a working vehicle

place us all in a comfortable position where we have the luxury of choice when it comes to philosophy. I suspect for some others, in the world, it is far more black and white.

Our actions, which change only when we get angry enough to cause change, are affecting others, usually negatively. I prefer to be shocked and angry enough to want to stand up and make a change where i stand. Refusing to acknowledge completely and/or running off about tragedy with no clear plan to mitigate it, even in small and personal ways, are both fails IMHO.

[lumberjack_jeff]

19. It's a good basis on which to rationalize the purchase of ammo.

And liquor. :shrug:

[old mark]

20. I am hoping the anger can be turned into energy to fight the right and beat them

in 2012.

It's either that or lay down and give them everything they didn't get in 2010.

mark

[Hannah Bell]

22. i thought we beat them in 2008?

[old mark]

27. ...but THEY didn't quit, and they came back.....

like fucking zombies.....


mark

[Hannah Bell]

31. so what good is beating them?

[old mark]

42. So just whine and hope the GOP will suddenly become decent people?

We have no choice but to fight them continuously-or just give up entirely, which seems to be a popular idea here.

mark

[sufrommich]

21. God, I agree. And I don't understand how people live that

way.

[Rex]

23. Same here.

Yet I am still angry, can't change that. Hopeless, no. Give up? Never. We're fucked. Maybe, maybe not. Still, anger at the system does no good. Anger at the ruling elite doesn't do any good. The good of the people demands the ruling elite and the system give the working class a chance. Anger won't change their stance, we have to try something else more peaceful and I hate to say it but something spectacular to change the voters opinion. Anger, I will always be angry over 2000 and 9/11. The rest can be dealt with.

[TBF]

25. "Anger at the ruling elite doesn't do any good" -

complete bullshit supporting the ruling class.

[Rex]

46. I mean in America.

What ya gonna do?

[TBF]

48. The same thing they are doing in most other countries - resist.

Here is the KKE website for starters: http://inter.kke.gr/

[seabeyond]

26. i missed something. nt

[Capitalocracy]

30. Um

Things are very bleak. I agree with you that we shouldn't have that "we're fucked, let's curl up in a ball and die" attitude. But we also shouldn't pretend everything's peachy-dandy. We should understand the situation we're in and do what it takes to make things better.

[felix_numinous]

32. Getting stuck in fear and rage

is very different than working through these emotions. I agree that getting stuck in fear and rage can be debilitating, and it is important to move past them when they have run their course. The catch is, everyone processes emotions at different speeds and depths.

Americans are going through the natural stages of loss ( I refer to Kubler-Ross), denial, anger, bargaining, grief and acceptance--because many of us (most of us?) have suffered during the last decade or so. E-motions have to move, they need to be able to flow. I think it is important to acknowledge that these experiences of loss, whether they be dreams, homes, health or security, or of a loved one, are very real to many people right now. Many people are actually traumatized by their losses, and IF we are able, this is a time to support each other in our time of loss.

It is crucial that we allow each stage of loss to unfold naturally--because we have to let go of what we have lost completely in order to make room for what has to be built in the future.

Change involves destruction as well as construction, it involves grief and loss, and if we support each other, we can share our creativity and work together.

[OneGrassRoot]

33. Well said, and K&R to the OP! :) n/t

[closeupready]

34. I agree. I'm essentially an optimist.

Hanging out here sometimes you get the feeling like, as an optimist, you are an endangered species.

[Pale Blue Dot]

35. I'm really tired of the straw men.

Nobody - NOBODY - is advocating this as a philosophy. This is just easier for you to swat down than is the reality of what people are saying.

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.<1> To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

[cali]

39. OK. Philosophy was a bad choice of a word. I should have said state of being.

and there is a degree of choice involved. And no, dear, it's not a straw man- a concept I'm quite familiar with and which YOU are misusing.

[Pale Blue Dot]

40. LOL - what's the argument you're refuting?

:rofl:

[OneGrassRoot]

36. Sharing my new favorite quote from Mr. Howard Zinn:

An optimist isn't necessarily a blithe, slightly sappy whistler in the dark of our time. To be hopeful in bad times is not just foolishly romantic. It is based on the fact that human history is a history not only of cruelty but also of compassion, sacrifice, courage, kindness. What we choose to emphasize in this complex history will determine our lives. If we see only the worst, it destroys our capacity to do something. If we remember those times and places — and there are so many — where people have behaved magnificently, this gives us the energy to act, and at least the possibility of sending this spinn...ing top of a world in a different direction. And if we do act, in however small a way, we don't have to wait for some grand utopian future. The future is an infinite succession of presents, and to live now as we think human beings should live, in defiance of all that is bad around us, is itself a marvelous victory./div]


:hi:

[cali]

38. I love that quote! Thanks for posting it.

[bettyellen]

47. yes many DUers do "wait for some grand utopian future"

[TheKentuckian]

43. Negative emotions exist for a purpose-survival. The key is focusing them

as well as not being dominated by them.

Don't panic but shitty things are afoot and playing shiny, happy people won't fix it a lick either.
I hope folks will work through their various levels of despair and come out swinging and relentlessly dedicated to changing the paradigm.

[Raine]

44. Often living gets easier when one quits bashing one's head

against a brick wall. :yoiks:

[Bonobo]

49. How about "It's hopeless to obsess over fake politics, so I'm going to live."?

Politics is the art(ifice) of making people believe they have a choice.

It is entertainment for some, religion for others.

For some it is a source of great anxiety and understanding how fake it is can help one become free from the fear and anxiety that Americans are force fed daily.

So give up on politics but do not give up on life.

[Raine]

52. Yup sometimes that is the only way to

save your sanity.

[SOS]

51. The stages of grief

As we watch the United States die, we are all in different stages of grief.
My arc through the past 10 years:

Denial - January 2001 - Someone this stupid simply cannot be the President of the United States.
Anger - March 2003 - Invasion of Iraq
Bargaining - January 2007 - Maybe with a Democratic Congress...
Depression - September 2008 - the Wall Street banks destroy the US economy
Acceptance - January 2011 - To hell with it. No longer even pay attention to the Potemkin Village theater.