Brits are making fun of Sarah Palin. But, my German ex-hubby's family isn't laughing.

[Rozlee]

Remember that skit we had on DU a few days ago of some comics in the UK cracking up over the idiocy of Sarah Palin supporters? We all seem pretty confident that anyone as stupid as she is doesn't stand a chance of being elected.

"That's what they said about Ronald Reagan!" my German national first husband snapped at me over the phone last night. I winced. We'd been young teens living in Stuttgart when we'd first been married. "And we all thought the same about Bush over here. Americans value stupidity as a virtue!" He went on a long rant. My current husband and I have a home in Okinawa. My ex wants the kids and grandkids we had together there now, this instant! "Tsunamis?" I said tentatively, knowing it wasn't a consideration. My ex wasn't fooled either. I suddenly realized that it wasn't just one of his political angry discourses. He was really frightened. It seems that Germans aren't as sanguine as Brits about Palin and her ilk. That Reagan comment about nuclear wars being fought on European soil was closer to them than to the UK.

Sarah with her manicured two-and-a-half-inch nails on the nuclear button. "What's this little pokey thingy do?" Unlike everyone else who thinks she's so religious, I don't buy it for a minute. Like Dubya, who hasn't been seen in church since he left office, I think that her religiosity is merely calculated trappings to make a niche for herself in the base of the Republican Party. She's got an IQ in the mid 80s, but she more than makes up for it in sheer natural cunning. And the collective IQ of our nation is even lower than that to have elected losers like Reagan and Bush II. I was stunned when I heard moderators during the Gore/Bush debates arguing over who'd won the debate and finally stating that it might have been a draw. A fuckin' DRAW??? Plus, the VP debates between Palin and Biden, also singing Sarah's praises. The hell! She came off like an 80s Valley Girl reject, changing the subject and never answering any question the moderator asked; always repeating a mantra of talking points over and over again. And they thought she did a great job! Consider as well that Palin never gave an open press conference while she was running as McCain's VP, something that had never happened before in presidential history. She was protected on all sides everywhere she went by handlers that kept the wolves at bay. Salon quoted Stephen King describing her as "Greg Stillson in skirts." Yeah, and like in King's book, "The Dead Zone," I can almost see why my German ex is in fear that our kids and grandkids might live in a country ruled by a demogogue like her. But, we survived Dubya, right? Oh, wait.

Palin makes Dubya look like Tertullian. She's uncontrollable. At least, Bush had handlers that made most of his decisions and put the brakes on his tendency to autocracy. That was Uncle Dick's domain. Not Palin. I can see her becoming drunk with power and holding the nation hostage to her every destructive whim. The only thing that could save us would be her impeachment and how that would turn out with her enablers protecting her every step of the way is anyones guess. This isn't Dick Nixon's America anymore. Presidential criminals are coddled nowadays, not prosecuted. Bush and Cheney have gotten away with war crimes in case anyone's forgotten. And her being elected could happen. McCain was ahead in the polls until the financial crash happened and he flubbed it all with his handling of it. Sans the crash, who knows what might have happened. And we're still on shaky economic ground. That makes Obama vulnerable, no matter what his current high riding on foreign policy from the bin Laden bump. Bush Senior was riding high on winning the first Gulf War and got throttled by the unknown Bill Clinton a year later on the recession, remember?

Don't underestimate this she-snake. Almost every post I read has DU'ers poking fun at her chances. Her screechy voice that sounds like zombie claws raking on chalkboard. Her refusal to be pinned down for interviews. Hey, don't laugh. She can pull the victim card or the feisty I'm-the-mighty-anti-media-warrior card. And like my ex said, we Americans have a penchant for picking losers and seeing stupidity as a virtue. A president you can sit down and have a beer with. Never mind that he brings the economy of the world crashing and starts an illegal war.

Maybe my ex just has me all shook up with his nervousness. But, I really think DUers and everyone else need to take Palin a bit more seriously. I remember how confident we felt when Reagan ran for office and how we thought he was a joke. How I thought everyone would be able to see through Bush II as the empty suit he was. We were wrong. We might be wrong about Palin too.

[EFerrari]

1. Americans don't pick losers. The powers that be pick their front men

and we rationalize them. And remember, both of Bush's elections were dirty.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. You're absolutely right, Beth.

And I think TPTB may be as scared of Palin as we are. They want someone manageable to front for Newt in the VP slot.

[EFerrari]

8. Well, remember Bill Kristol picked her for McCain.

She may wander at times but she always corrects back to the company line. If they could handle the disaster that was Junior, I think they can handle her. They will have had six years to look at her, in any case.

[hifiguy]

19. I think you are right

Mooselini just might push The Button to see if she can bring Jebus back. She is actually nuts. That is NOT what TPTB want. They have a lot of looting left to do.

His Chimperial Highness was a mean, stupid, corrupt, venal asshole and probably a sociopath to boot, but he was NOT going to push The Button without orders to do so. They cannot be so sure about Buybull Spice.

[RaleighNCDUer]

44. I agree - unlike W, who just used nutcase RW religion to build his

base (after starting with that for his dad's campaign) Palin has been a religious nut job for years, long before she had any thought of state, not to mention national, office.

Unlike W's hypocrisy, she's a True Believer and among those beliefs are a belief in demons and witchcraft. And that scares the crap outa me.

[Ghost Dog]

73. Do you mean a belief in

conjuring demons and employing withcraft?

[Octafish]

16. So were Poppy and Pruneface's.

The October Surprise

[Jackpine Radical]

28. Funnhy--I just mentioned the October Surprise in a post here

within the past day.

[Octafish]

31. Every day that passes, fewer people know what the October Surprise was.

The fault lies with our lying Corporate McPravda and AWOL academics -- and their directors, of course.

Wish I'd seen your post, Jackpine Radical. Come to think of it...

[Jackpine Radical]

35. #22 on this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1220214&mesg_id=1220214

[Wednesdays]

40. My first acquaintance with October Surprise predates your links

I was an undergrad in 1988, and I helped staff an information table for the Dukakis campaign in the busiest building on campus that fall.

One day, a young man approached me. He looked Middle-Eastern, and he clearly was no fan of Poppy. We got to talking about Iran-Contra, and then he told me he was a student in Tehran during the hostage crisis. He then said, "No one has heard of it here, but did you know Reagan's and Bush's people came and talked to us about keeping the hostages until after the election against Carter?" I (and the others at the table) just sat there, stunned. At first, I had a hard time believing him--it just sounded too incredible...after all, I thought, this pre-dates all the negotiations mentioned in the Iran-Contra hearings, and didn't the Ayatollah Khomeni call the shots in Iran at the time, anyway? (In retrospect, what the man said made sense: it was the students, and not the Ayatollah, who controlled the hostages.)

Our College Democrats leader jotted down the man's name and number, saying he would pass the information on to the local Democratic headquarters. The man left, and unfortunately I don't remember his name, and I heard nothing about the matter since, until I began hearing about October Surprise officially, a few years later.

[rucognizant]

82. You need to ............

TELL YOUR STORY FAR & WIDE! WIthout ceasing.............HOW COULD YOU lose the man's name????????

[madokie]

51. Between you and Jackpine Radical this place is a study in history

I salute both of you for the job of educating many of us, me for damn sure.

[madokie]

50. In fact it all started with the election of '68 then honed to a fine edge with the election in '80

Remember how nixon used anti-gay- anti-womens rights to win that election. I do because I was soon to be heading off to war thinking that I was doing the right thing. 2 days after arriving in country Vietnam I seen that we weren't there to keep the commies from coming over here as I and a bunch of us were led to believe. Our purpose was to use our and the poor Vietnamese's blood to grease the American War Machine so as to make a few already wealthy men even more wealthy. You didn't see the sons and daughters of the rich there, it was for the most part us poor kids being manipulated into believing we were on the side of God and Country. Thats where I came to realize there is no God, no afterlife, no heaven or hell after being raised in the southern 'Babtist' church. That was a popular spelling around here as I remember back to my early childhood.

[float upstream]

70. Who is Prunefish? And why are you calling people names?

[tova]

62. +1

[FSogol]

2. Except that older people remembered Reagan and his voice from his tv and movie careers.

Whenever he started blathering some nonsense, they were taken back to an idealized (and nonexistent)vision of 50's America. It was phony nostalgia and they didn't care if he was lying or nuts, they only wanted to feel good.

Sarah has no such track record and can't even count on getting the full support of Bush's 29%.

[RebelOne]

41. I am an older person who remembers his TV and movie careers.

But I swore that if he was elected president, I would leave the country. Unfortunately, I did not have the finances to leave the country at that time. I knew he was a liar and he did not make me feel good.

[Cleita]

66. Agree. I was upset when he became Governor of

California and appalled that he was elected President and that those who voted for him hadn't looked at his past record and what he started in California that is still having repercussions today.

[rucognizant]

83. Bu___T!

I am 72 years old. reagan's voice raised the hackles on the back of my neck. I saw this coming down the pike and it was only 1 month after his inaugural, that he started doing things to harm my small business!
Don't make out that "Old people" are clueless, unaware, that's a myth going around! We got a good public education before the repigs started dumming it down. Most adults in my youth a were LIBERAL! Course I didn't grow up in Nebraska or Kansas.somebody elected the repigs. Maybe theyr were already tinkering with the vote? My Parents were very depressed that Stevenson lost the election! And Eisenhower was certainly no nixon,ford, reagan, bush, bush, cheny,
In fact I just looked. People born 1912 - 1919 had Uranus in Aquarius...............siogn of the new age. And they were new agers alright! There' just weren't enough of them to forstall what came after.
The 50's were soooo conservative; as a high school kid I railed against it & went rebellious, following the prompts of Baez, Dylan etc. ( No they WERE NOT BOOMERS>>>>>BORN BEFORE THAT!)
But I truly HATED the 90's it was FAR WORSE! 80% of my preferred diet disappeared from the market and the replacements didn't taste as good!
Now we know why, they poisoned the food! Everywhere I looked there were sheep.................following the boss's orders, where before there had been independent small Mom & Pop businesses, that had modest goals for profit, lived far more comfortably! The non-profit self serving riff of the 90's ( \I got MINE)was truly a disaster! putting more independent businesses out of business. I fired a guy, Yale Grad, because his artwork wasn't up to my standard....., he turned around and started a non-profit foundation to put kidsinpoor neighborhoods to work ( not for pay mind you, just to keep them out of the gangs.) My Son continued our, for profit, ( capitalist) mural business, and he had all those artists coming to him for a job because they were' t making enough salary to live on in the non-profit biz! Another outfit tried to get me to DONATE my paintings, FREE, to their non-profit seaside science institute, because they were providing a community service. HELLO, I too have a light bill to pay, property taxes etc.
YOU LISTEN TO YOUR GERMAN EX-HUSBAND HE KNOWS WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT! If I could have figured out how to live on 1/2 of what I needed, (SS income not enough) I'd be in Germany today! They are terminating all nuclear power! They harness their little streams for power, and build their house with such thick insulation you don't even need a heater! They have invented a car that sells for $600. & gets 258 m p g. ( My mechanic tells me it wouldn't pass emissions tests here, so it is being marketed in CHina!) Watch Deutsche Welle News Journal on Link TV to see how they live.
I spent a summer in Germany through the Friend's Services in '55 10 years after the war...............gave me a lot of insight at a young age!

[rurallib]

3. I believe these are words to be heeded

especially with the one sided media we have. What Sarah lacks in brains (a hell of a lot) the media will make up for in free advertising and misinformation.

[BlueStater]

4. Ronald Reagan served two terms as governor of the most populated state in the union.

Moose-shit-for-brains couldn't even finish one term as governor of the fourth least populated state. Prior to that, she was mayor of a town with about as many people in it as a large high school.

[Cosmocat]

13. There is no comparison ...

He is so painfully overrated as a president by the "liberal media."

But, three years to the day, literally, no one in the "lower 48" had every heard of Palin.

Reagen, literally, spent DECADES as a front line conservative mainstay prior to being president.

President of the screen actors guild, I think it was ...

He was a SERIOUS political player, frankly ...

[Mz Pip]

22. I totally agree

I hear that alot - that Reagan was stupid and America still voted for him. Having lived in CA for some of his tenure as governor I would disagree with people who say he was stupid. I didn't agree with his politics at all and he did a lot of damage to the state but stupid isn't a word that comes to mind when I think of Reagan.

I think we do ourselves a disservice to dismiss people we disagree with as stupid. I don't think Palin is stupid as much as I think she is intellectually lazy; kind of like Bush. Except she takes her laziness to the extreme. I really think she thinks she can just wing anything and everything.

I think we would be wise to view our opponents more critically and not get complacent. Dismissing Reagan as stupid didn't work out so well for us. That said, Sarah is too much of a loose cannon to fool enough of the electorate to vote for her. I don't think the PTB in the Republican Party want to even risk trying to manage her. Bush was easy, Sarah will not be and I think they know it. And like you said, Reagan was a serious political player. Sarah is just playing at politics and even most conservatives know the difference.

[PatSeg]

75. Also Reagan was an actor

He knew how to perform in front of a camera and could speak in complete sentences. His voice was relatively pleasant and for some people it may have been soothing and comforting. Yes, he was "a serious political player", whereas Sarah is erratic and childlike. She lacks the focus and self-discipline necessary to stick with a long campaign, not to mention actually serving a full term as president.

[Solomon]

86. Naw. Sarah is stupid.

Doesn't mena we should underestimate her chances, but she is indeed, stupid.

[nebenaube]

5. Wow...

Stuttgart eh? I may know you.

[Rozlee]

24. Depends on whether you were good at dodging.

I was five foot nothing and weighed 90 pounds. That meant people stumbled over me and did face plants on the ground. So if you were taller than 5'5", you probably looked right over my head.

[nebenaube]

25. That's funny...

Pattonville or Patch?

[Rozlee]

27. Graduated in the U.S. when I was 16.

I didn't go to school in Stuttgart, but I did like hanging out at Pattonville. When I was 17 and at one of their games, this tall, gangly German kid comes up to me out of nowhere and tells me, "You'll be my wife, yes?" It sounded like a good idea at the time. 17 year olds, y'know? But, we got two fine looking kids and four beautiful grandkids out of it.

[Dawson Leery]

7. It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that this beast ever gets into the Whitehouse.

It is NOT impossible, just highly unlikely. Under certain conditions, anything is possible.

[EFerrari]

10. I think it's as likely as Bush 2. If the Republican mafiosos decide

they can manage her, sure she can get into the White House.

[trueblue2007]

12. i feel "something would happen to her" if she got the nomination

[AndyTiedye]

15. They Let Her be McAncient's Running Mate

If McAncient had won, the stress of the job would have killed him by now, and imPaler would be President now.

[float upstream]

68. "Beast?" Why are you allowed to be that insulting?

Is your mama a beast?

[Bake]

9. TPTB would kill her before they'd let her in the White House.

Her rented RV would have an unlikely "accident."

Bake

[AndyTiedye]

18. Some of TPTB Want Her

imPaler would have been a 72-year-old heartbeat away from the Presidency if McAncient had won.
With Nancy Pelosi as the next in succession at that time I think her chances of getting into an "accident" would be extremely low.

[LondonReign2]

11. She will not run

I have maintained for months that she will not run. This woman is driven by greed and attention, nothing else. She quit as Governor of Alaska for Bog's sake because 1) it was too hard, and 2) She knew she could make vastly larger sums of money elsewhere. There is NO WAY she'd work hard for 18 months duting a campaign with the prize being four years of hard work and a huge reduction in pay.

This show is nothing more than her keeping in name in lights to fuel her books and speaking fees. Poor old Mooselini was starting to be eclipsed, and that's bad for her business. Griftarella got someone else to pay for all this just to boost her profit-making ability.

[AndyTiedye]

14. There is No Such Thing as an Unelectable Republican

They own the media, the courts, and the churches. They have unlimited corporate cash. They control most of the state governments.

Even an idiot like Palin might "win".

We gotta make sure that doesn't happen.

[alfredo]

17. Don't you just love how she is using her daughter as a human shield?

[Bake]

20. Suppose she runs ... and loses badly in the primaries

Her "brand" is badly damaged, and that costs her $$$$$, in terms of speaking engagements, TV appearances, etc. She is branded as a LOSER.

THAT is why I think she won't run.

Bake

[Rozlee]

21. Some of you guys are scaring me here.

Yeah, I agree. Palin may not run. But, if she does, she has name recognition now as well. Plus, there is a crooked election system that can catapult her into the White House like it did Dubya. An excellent PR apparatus can work wonders as well. It's allowed a whole lot of disgraced REPUBLICAN politicians make comebacks and avoid blowback from scandals. Palin has a lot of minuses, true. A shitload of them, in fact. But, remember that apathy kept the Obama voting bloc home in the 2010 elections and gave the House to the Rethugs. If the same happens in 2012, we're sunk. We had a Ranger battalion we taught medical to that said one of their most basic precepts was to never be complacent and never underestimate the enemy. Another one should have been never underestimate the Democrats' ability to pull defeat out of the jaws of victory. Shooting ourselves in the foot is something we keep doing over and over again. And we already know that Obama isn't a dirty fighter, something the other side is extremely well versed in.

My ex might be on to something when he says to send our grandkids to our other home in Okinawa. It's starting to feel spooky around here. More Americans vote on Dancing With the Stars than voted in the last election. Apathy is our middle name. It's our greatest weakness and the other side's greatest strength. They keep recreating themselves over and over again, like Phoenixes rising from their ashes of disgrace or scandal. Our candidates, on the other hand, can't even make comebacks from screaming during campaign stops in front of supporters. And Palin could make big bucks being prez. After being in office, she could announce that she won't run for more than one term and then make speaking fees out the wazoo. Right now, she probably knows she's close to having her star dimming over the next couple of years if the small amount of crowds she draws in her book signings are any indications. She knows the only reason she's been in the news now is because of speculation about a presidential run. No, I really believe that if she sees an opportunity that she'll win among the Republican base, she'll jump for it. She'd make money for years to come from investing the 4 years in office. Or 2.

[Bluenorthwest]

61. That is not true, that more vote on Dancing with the Stars.

False, but fun for the smug to say things like that. Over 131 Million votes were cast in the 08 Presidential race. That TV show has never had even 20 million viewers. Last week it did not even win its own time slot. But what does that matter? I'd suggest that if 'facts' like that one are why you feel ill at ease, it might matter that the facts are actual facts.

[Rozlee]

74. The last election in '10 was 82 mil.

During the 11 episodes with Bristol Palin, controversy raged that she had garnered more votes thoughout the episodes, as you said, than the number of watchers the raters of television programs counted. Right wing sites urged their viewers to vote for Bristol, although almost everyone, including the judges, thought she was the worst contestant. But, she stuck it out until almost the very last episode. And the lines to vote were jammed with votes for her. The cumulative episodes with her in them had these numbers of people that called in to vote. Right wing sites were blamed as were accusations of the possibility of double votes or more by conservatives. I wouldn't really be surprised. I don't watch DWTS but I saw clips, some even on DU and I have to admit, I'd look more graceful falling off a tree.

[PCIntern]

23. I've been saying this all along and all I get here are people

negating me.

It's Clint Eastwood politics: "Do you feel lucky?"

[robdogbucky]

26. To wit

Was castigated soundly by almost all in January re; Crosshairs


Now being dogged by frenzied media on pointless tour and again touted as serious contender


What's wrong with this picture?

[Eddie Haskell]

29. Bush spoke in my hometown the other night.

“They laughed heartily when Bush got to talking about how he disdains television. "It's a waste of time," he said. " 'Dancing with the Stars?' You ought to be reading. Reading history. Expanding your mind." Bush paused at that point, seeming to realize his faux pas: The emcee of the Chamber dinner was WGAL-TV's Lori Burkholder.”

IMO, he paused because he was waiting for the laughs. Bush read ... now that's funny.

[radhika]

30. I think we overidealize the 'American People'

We aren't that great. We don't really share positive values of equality, small-d democracy and tolerance. And we are not deep thinkers - we are a poorly-informed, easily-inflamed mob of tribes. Our tribe is entitled to ALL; your tribe is entitled to DIE.

We do horrible things to races, nations and religions that the dominant group decides to marginalize, exclude or exploit. And as years go by, those ugly currents rise up again, re-bloom and attract a large following. Could anyone have rationally predicted the current era? And the ignorant aggressive hatred of democracy evinced by the Right?

Well, welcome to history. Nations seem doomed to go into their darkness periodically. We are there now.

[Snoutport]

32. I agree with you.

She is a very dangerous woman. She is scary but people are dumb and don't seem to care. With the media lying to them they don't hear the truth anyway.

[float upstream]

69. And I take it that you are "smart" then?

Who will you be supporting in 2012?

[muriel_volestrangler]

33. As a matter of interest, can someone post a link to the skit?

I was just wondering who it was.

[pacalo]

34. My husband doesn't find her amusing AT ALL. If Bush could be put into the White House,

so could she. He really gets annoyed when he sees her on tv.

Corporate media is the root of this catastrophe. She would have been a flash-in-the-pan curiosity freak on the front pages of the tabloid magazines if we had a responsible media looking out for the good of the country.

[jillan]

36. As long as Citizens United is law, Sarah Palin could win the WH.

[necso]

37. "...sheer natural cunning."

And a very strong drive to dominate, to win; to make others submit, subordinate.

But these attributes appeal (this behavior appeals) directly on an other-than-conscious level to those who operate (are driven by forces) on this level. And a person shouldn't underestimate the power of such things, especially when constantly and even-more cunningly reinforced by the powerful, ruthless, relentless, wrong-wing marketing/propaganda/psywar/attack machine.

It's never going to be easy to fight these dark-side forces. In one form or another, and on whatever front they can, they'll always seek to dominate.

[MsPithy]

38. If the unemployment percentage everyone within the "Beltway," quotes is 9%,

and why wouldn't it be, (the real unemployment percentage is more like 17 to 20%.) and Obama does nothing about first home foreclosures, and Obama gives Republicans cover on Medicare, by "compromising" on benefit decreases, because the Republicans are holding the entire economy hostage. Palin or any other Republican nominee will win.

[mwb970]

79. In the worst-case scenario you describe, she would lose in 40 states.

In any other (more likely) scenario, she loses in 49 or 50. (Or 57!)

[Maraya1969]

39. "She's got an IQ in the mid 80s" Was that a real true statement?

Because I thought below 100 was not so good.

Or was it just made up to make a point?

[Rozlee]

42. It's come out in a lot of websites including Daily Kos, the Progressiveblogspot and here on DU

But, I'll eat crow and admit it was a cheap shot on my part. 83 is still considered borderline normal and even low normal and low IQ has no bearing on what a person can accomplish in life. Ask Andy Warhol, who had an IQ of 86. It's what one can accomplish with one's mental abilities, whatever their heights or limitations, that should be the measuring stick of one's true potential. But, this latest caper of Palin's, about her revision of Paul Revere's ride, is just an example, not of her lack in IQ, but of her utter disregard for knowledge whatsoever. Gawd, just a peek into Wikipedia before talking to the media would have given her at least a tweak of knowledge instead of going on and on about how Paul Revere warned the British that they couldn't take away our guns and that he rode shooting and ringing bells.

[nxylas]

49. It was a hoax

It came from a Photoshopped document that somehow managed to fool people who hould have been smart enough to know better.

Source: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/11/71941/717/207/627300

[Rozlee]

54. Stand corrected and eating second helping of crow. n/t.

[Maraya1969]

56. Hold out on that crow for awhile

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1227461

[Maraya1969]

55. I just wrote a post about it. You might be interested.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1227461

[nxylas]

60. Sorry, but that just sounds like birtherism to me

"Snopes has debunked the story and the original source has retracted it, but I'm so desperate to believe anything negative about Palin that I'm going to cling to the original story until someone disproves it to my satisfaction, which is of course impossible".

[dipsydoodle]

48. That's an exaggeration

Its no higher than her shoe size.

[backscatter712]

76. My vote is that her IQ is room-temperature... in Celsius!

[chervilant]

81. hmm...

I've posted this before on other threads, but it bears repeating:

our system of public education has been transformed into a corporate tool. By the time we members of the vast hoi polloi get our high school diplomas, more than three-quarters of us are convinced that we have 'average or below average' intellects. What an enormous crock of El Toro Poo Poo!

Each and every one of us has a fully functioning, amazing brain. Contemporary research on IQ tests suggests that most of us would score 'near genius' level on these tests--if the time element of the test was removed. I contend that each of us learns in our OWN way, at our OWN pace. If we were to revamp our system of public education to honor and celebrate this fact, profound things would ensue.

However, consider that the majority of people who have "graduated' from our system of public education in the last four decades have been suckered into believing that most of us have average or below average intellects (a deliberate corporatist-driven deceit). Consider that we've been trained AWAY from critical thinking skills and toward rote memorization, so that we can perform like trained monkeys on ridiculously expensive and pedantic standardized tests. Consider that almost half of our adult population is functionally illiterate (perhaps we can READ the words on this page, but many of us would be hard pressed to explain the gist of what we've read). Consider that Bernays' propaganda techniques have helped produce our predominantly fearful, malleable, gullible, and PITIFUL citizenry.

On a personal note, I've heard the most profound thoughts issue forth from the brains of people who've been told all their lives that they possess an average intellect. And, as a teacher, I am committed to advocating for ALL of my students, so they may recognize and fully utilize their mental acuity.

By the way, I contend that if the PTB want Palin to be president, she shall BE president.

(Just in case another DUer gets their panties in a wad over the adult illiteracy data hereinabove: using data from the Adult Literacy in America report, Literacy Research Associates, Inc., a non-profit educational corporation, calculated the average yearly earnings by literacy group and compared this data with the threshold poverty level for an individual reported by the U.S. Census Bureau. The average annual earnings of U.S. adults in the two lowest literacy groups, comprising 48.7% of the interviewees, were below the poverty threshold. This means that 48.7% of U.S. adults read and write so poorly that they cannot hold an above-poverty-level-wage job. This is another way of saying they are functionally illiterate.)

[Timbuk3]

43. I don't believe Palin can win a general election

...but that was a RIGHTEOUS rant!

K&R

[Anakin Skywalker]

45. Sarah Palin is pure evil!

[muriel_volestrangler]

46. Palin is religious; she was baptised in the Wasilla 'Assembly of God' church at 12

The church runs a number of ministries providing help to poor neighborhoods, care for children in need, and general community services. But Pastor Kalnins has also preached that critics of President Bush will be banished to hell; questioned whether people who voted for Sen. John Kerry in 2004 would be accepted to heaven; charged that the 9/11 terrorist attacks and war in Iraq were part of a war "contending for your faith;" and said that Jesus "operated from that position of war mode."

It is impossible to determine how much Wasilla Assembly of God has shaped Palin's thinking. She was baptized there at the age of 12 and attended the church for most of her adult life. When Palin was inaugurated as governor, the founding pastor of the church delivered the invocation. In 2002, Palin moved her family to a nondenominational church, but she continues to worship at a related Assembly of God church in Juneau.

Moreover, she "has maintained a friendship with Wasilla Assembly of God and has attended various conferences and special meetings here," Kalnins' office said in a statement. "As for her personal beliefs," the statement added, "Governor Palin is well able to speak for herself on those issues."

Clearly, however, Palin views the church as the source of an important, if sometimes politically explosive, message. "Having grown up here, and having little kids grow up here also, this is such a special, special place," she told the congregation in June. "What comes from this church I think has great destiny."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/02/palins-church-may-have-sh_n_123205.html

It may be a religion that scares the crap out of a lot of us, but I think she genuinely holds it. It doesn't stop her from being vindictive, ignorant on most subjects, or greedy, but it is her religion.

[Patiod]

57. I believe she IS religious, and it actually makes her more scary

Like Bush, it's likely she believes that Israel needs to be in complete control of Jerusalem in order for the End of Days to occur.

[tanyev]

47. All the more reason to ridicule her.

[Bluenorthwest]

52. Germans not laughing is not exactly news, you know...

And your in laws know nothing of Reagan's background at all. The comparison is idiotic, nothing less. Learn history. I was an adult when Reagan was in office as President, a child when he held the Governor's office for two terms in our most populous State, I was not born at all when he was President of his Union. If you thought he was a joke, you were wrong then. Others knew better. He was not a joke to the people of CA, for example. He was a well crafted, long term project of very powerful people, they spent years making him ready, and ready he was. He gave hundreds, hear me, hundreds of political speeches across the nation long before he ever ran for public office.
I just tire of the 'he was stupid like her' routine, because all it does is serve Palin with a pile of inaccurate observations about Reagan. Comparing the two is a favor to Palin and it is not based on reality.

[nichomachus]

53. Reagan was a dimwit

He was basically a ventriloquist dummy who mimicked the lines that other people fed him. Yes, he gave hundreds and hundreds of speeches, but they were written by other people. Even his biographer couldn't find anything there when he went to write about him. Reagan just had no core. He would meet with someone and be their best friend. Five minutes later, he would have no recollection of the person.

[Bluenorthwest]

59. Did I say otherwise?

My point was in fact that he was a puppet, a very well prepared puppet, of very specific people who had invested years and years into making him and using him as they wished, from business deals when he was a Union President, to the larger spectrum as President. I did not suggest that he had a 'core' or much substance, I said he had chops and much training that Palin lacks, as well as a lifetime of work discipline, the best coaches on earth, and so forth. I said that the people of CA, who had seen him elected or elected him Governor two times were very aware of his vile nature as well as the skills and connections that allowed him to win. The man walked away with debates. No content, but he still won.
My point is not that Reagan was anything other than the worst President of modern times, because that is exactly what he was, my point is that he and Palin share little aside from Party affiliation. Reagan had political skills, social skills, and training and rehearsals, which he knew how to use. That does not mean he had some deep personality or any intellect at all. But her also being less bright than most politicians does not make them simulacrums in and of itself.
If nothing else, if the similarities are important, so are the differences, and the differences are myriad, such as two terms completed as Gov of a populous state in which the Republicans still liked him when he was done compared to half a term, resignation, a State with fewer people than most cities, and a local Party that loathes her. I mean, look at her on TV and tell me that being good at giving a speech is not important, that being ready to do so is not vital in politics. Others wrote them? Others write many speeches for many politicians, time constraints alone mean that even those who can write can not write it all. The delivery is very important, no matter who the author is, especially since we are not told who the author is in political speeches.
My points are about the contrasts between Palin and Reagan. Which are large. I've known in my life dozens of people who worked with Reagan, so I've got stories you might enjoy about his lack of brain power, where he kept his cue cards and why that shaped his visual style. The same people knew then, as many have forgotten, that he was GE's boy from word go, GE and MCA. His entire political career was invented and produced by them. From word go. He was a cog in a larger machine. Many people in CA knew this all along, many could read up on it. History is important. The two have a few scant similarities, but many large differences which make her a pale runner compared to him. Just the work he and others put into it for so long, that alone, always be prepared. He was prepared. Long and hard. He'd been tested by his makers in positions of increasing power and authority. He was an excellent cog. She's a sprung sprocket.
It is interesting that you think charming people is not a political skill. Ron could sure do that, and as you say, without any actual connection to the person being charmed at all. That is a major component of political or showbiz success. Even those who have a core do exactly that. When you meet thousands of people, no one has an authentic connection with each hand they shake, but to make it feel that way matters. It is politics, not academia.
Ron was a puppet, but a good one. She's not a good one. If you compare two things, you must always also contrast them if you ask me. When people say 'everyone thought Regan was a joke' they are not presenting history as it really was. He has been a very successful politician in the past. He owned the largest State in the nation politically. At my house, we were not laughing at GE and MCA, we were campaigning against a real threat with actual skills we had seen serve him for years in the past. Those who knew him then were not laughing, we knew he was not a joke, because we knew who was pulling his strings and they were certainly not joking. That's it. I offer that the fact of his election twice in a row suggests that those who thought he was a joke were very wrong and not listening to those who knew better. I grew up with him as Governor, and it was no joke. Far from it. We were not laughing. So those who claim 'everyone thought he was a joke' are incorrect about that. Many people knew he was a vile, highly connected and serious threat to the Democrats running against him. I knew that. Everyone I knew also did. If that is a problem, what can I say? We were Californians and members of the film biz, who knew him. We were not laughing. Even if some German family was laughing. They were not correct to laugh. They did not know the reality.

[Rozlee]

65. I agree with a lot of your premises.

As I said in my post below, he had charisma and a folksiness that people fell for. His coffee klathes trying to derail the creation of Medicare were ingenious. But, he was their spokesman, not the brains behind the operation. And their brains have degenerated drastically since. Look at the politicians elected to Republican office lately and some of their icons: Bachmann, Beck, Santorum, Coulter, plus a plethora of conservative politicians and notables whose outrageous racist and loony comments and actions we constantly report here on DU, not to mention sexual hijinks that many of them seem to ask for gawd's forgiveness and then carry on as usual. It's like they've devolved rapidly and their flock, voracious voters, don't seem to care. As for a German family laughing about Reagan, wrong. By saying they thought he was a joke, I meant they didn't think he'd be taken seriously by a heretofore intelligent electorate like the American people. As I've said, they weren't laughing. Reagan's bellicosity had them frightened that he was going to start a nuclear war, especially with his constant harping on how a nuclear war was winnable and how it would most likely be fought on European soil. This was the guy, after all, whose administration made up Civil Defense pamplets urging people to provide change of address forms after a nuclear war so that they could be located. And for even numbered cars to leave cities first after hearing that enemy IBMs were on the way followed by odd numbered cars. This is when enemy IBMs can reach us in 20 minutes, right? I guess it couldn't hurt. But, his entire campaign from the beginning was based on goading the Soviet Union and making the Cold War get pretty hot by his inflammatory rhetoric.

[Rozlee]

58. He had zero depth and went a long way with charisma.

He did make hundreds of speeches true. But, nichomachus has a point and he was an actor. He was great at oratory and getting his audiences caught up in his mojo. But, he was the standard Rethug. It's all about the rich and the hell for the poor, but he was more overtly ambitious in his attempts than any other Republicans before him to dismantle the New Deal and I really thought that people would see that. I was living in Germany at the time he was running as I said. My brother-in-law was a civilian contractor living off-base so we weren't surrounded by the gung-ho Reagan lovers in the military 24/7. His inflammatory pro-war saber rattling had the Germans and other Europeans terrified that he'd start WWIII. He sure had a way of reinforcing that. "I've signed legislation outlawing the Soviet Union. We start bombing in five minutes." No, I have to respectively disagree. I think the guy was loony tunes.

[Bluenorthwest]

63. I did not say he was not loony tunes. Do not put words in my

mouth for making a point of fact. I lived in CA all through Reagan's career. I am telling you he was not seen as a joke, but as a political threat. We had seen him win several elections. We had already lived with his vicious language and policy. We knew who put him in office and I could sit here and tell you hundreds of bits of corruption and ignorance on the part of Ron and his cronies that you have never even heard of. My elementary school organized against his school milk policy, it is the first outside the home political action I remember. So, sorry, we who had seen him take the milk from poor kids years before he was running for President took him very seriously. Where was the joke in that? We did not see it, we saw him win a second time. We heard him call for logging of the Redwood forest, a World Treasure that even Nixon helped protect. Ron said "If you've seen one redwood, you've seen them all." So apologies to you if we were not laughing when he took that act to the national level.
I said nothing but bad about this man I have considered evil since before he ever ran for national office. So I'm not sure what you and I disagree about. Except for the 'everyone thought he was a joke' part, which is simply not true. The man had skills. Oratory is a huge part of political life. He excelled where Palin fails massively. This thread was ostensibly about how similar they are. I do not see such a great similarity. She's as wrong as he was, but not nearly as skilled, not as prepared, not as well trained by the best of the trainers. Not as experienced. So make comparisons, but also see the contrasts. And understand that on the ground where he sprang from, no one was laughing at candidate Reagan. About the anti war protests and Kent State, he said in regard to UC Berkley, 'if it takes a blood bath, let it start now'. Why would we be laughing? Why were you laughing? Where in Reagan's long political history prior to running for President does the punch line lie? Blood bath? Redwoods? Milk money? How is any of that funny? And I could list stuff like this for hours. I fail to see why anyone would have laughed at his candidacy.

[Rozlee]

67. See my # 65 post. We were NOT laughing.

I admire your activism. He was a piece of work and how he got elected not only once, but twice, is beyond me. Double that for Dubya. Although in the latter's case, I can say that I believe crooked politics helped. But, the Repub brand keeps churning out these crazy-as-moonbats candidates and their constituency--the most faithful of voters--keeps voting them in. I blame it all on the wickely effective Southern Strategy. The pre-civil rights, segregationist Southern bloc keeps giving these demogogues their votes no matter how outrageous their stances. It's not exactly a comfort that many of them are really old and getting ready to kick the bucket; my siblings are at least almost 20 years older than I am. But, change is in the air. I hope it's change for the better, but I'm a cynic. I'll believe it when I see it.

[Cleita]

64. I'm with your ex. She shouldn't be taken lightly. Look

how far she's come from Wasilla in just a few short years. It reminds me that the Germans laughed at Hitler at first and thought of him and his Nazi party as a fringe group of wackos. Probably that's why he's so upset. If she or her sister crazy person, Michele Bachmann were ever to become President, it would probably lead to civil war here, perhaps not on the ground but in the courts, because there are many of us who would question the legitimacy of our elections, since we know George W. Bush was not in fact elected but appointed by our right wing dominant Supreme Court. This time I believe the people would rise up like they have been doing in states like Wisconsin and Ohio.

[float upstream]

71. I dunno; the extension of the Patriot Act

doesn't sound like much difference to me...

[russspeakeasy]

72. Big oil/ big banks will decide who the next president is.

[SaveAmerica]

77. I became a Dem volunteer after 2000 election, I was sure no one would vote for W, he seemed so

unelectable. How could so many people be so clueless? How is it possible that even today, after watching him in action for 8 years, could anyone still harbor the thought of voting for someone 'just like me' 'she gets us', etc. That's almost 'someone I could drink a beer with'.

I agree with you and your post 100%.

[Cleita]

84. He was unelectable but his minions figured out a way

to cheat on the elections by making the Supreme Court complicit in his appointment to President. The same could happen with Palin if the Repugs find she has enough charisma to get enough votes or they are just plain stuck with her so they can tip the election with the right SOSes like they have done in the past.

WE HAVE DONE NOTHING TO CLEAN UP OUR ELECTION CORRUPTION NATIONWIDE. Many states are already passing laws to disenfranchise voters that would vote for the Democrat/Obama.

[mwb970]

78. I truly don't think she wants the job.

She's doing just fine for herself as the National Curiosity. She quit her relatively easy job (especially the way she did it) as governor of Alaska; what makes anyone think she lusts for the much more difficult, much more visible job as president? Besides, that would cut deeply into the profits of Palin, Inc., and like any other corporation, Sarah is focused like a laser in a red suit on profits. For once, this reads as a Good Thing!

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[crim son]

85. My German ex-hubby's family would be thrilled if Palin won.

And I agree with you: she needs to be taken seriously, alas. The fact that GWB had two terms proves to me that the American people are capable of the greatest stupidity imaginable.