Gordon Brown says we need to position ourselves so we are ready to sell to the billion consumers

[dkf]

That are going to come out of China and India. Instead of arguing about the currency we need to ask why China hasn't done more to grow it's middle class.

We still have the best technology and the best infrastructure and the best minds. We need to make sure we have what they want to buy.

He says that we need to think more about how to position ourselves for the future. That means making sure we don't cut back on education and science and technology.

He was on MJ this morning.

[jpgray]

1. Who is "we?" Who makes what our best minds design?

Is a nation of retail, health care and service employees part of that "we?"

[Hannah Bell]

2. who cares what gordon brown thinks?

[dkf]

3. Hey at least someone is thinking about opportunity.

We both know the likely scenario is slow growth if any for years. The question is what are the possible outs and how likely are we to be able to get there.

[Hannah Bell]

4. what crap.

[dkf]

6. You don't think we are in a slow or no growth environment?

Interesting.

[Cant trust em]

8. I suspect that this person means that economic growth is crap.

You know, ridiculous things like people wanting to buy things and us selling it to them.

[Hannah Bell]

11. uh, no, that person means gordon brown is full of crap & his crap about "opportunity"

is strictly for the rubes.

"position ourselves" - lol.

who is this "ourselves" gordon speaks of?

[Cant trust em]

12. Perhaps you could give us some detail instead of just one-liners. nt

[Hannah Bell]

13. detail about what? tell me what he means by "positioning" & "ourselves" & i'll

give you some detail.

meaningless feel-good crap for the rubes.

capital isn't national; it's international.

that's why "we" have 10% unemployment while "they" are making record profits.

"we" won't be doing jackshit. "they" are already "positioned".

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Planning for the future is for rubes. Is that about right?

[Hannah Bell]

15. lol. gordon brown doesn't give a damn about anyone but his corporate sponsors.

and "you" have nothing to do with "their" planning.

[cherokeeprogressive]

19. You're right. Discussion closed. We will NOT talk about how to move ahead. Hannah says so.

Got it.

[Hannah Bell]

21. straw. didn't say anything of the sort, but of course you know that.

the discussion may be closed, but only because the facts aren't on your side.

if they were, you wouldn't have to offer straw.

[Cant trust em]

17. Guess what, we're never going to pull ourselves out of this hole without looking to foreign markets.

So the "positioning" he's talking about is finding out what products and services the international community is looking for and providing them.

Your blather is making you sound like the rube.

[Hannah Bell]

20. guess what, us & uk corporations *already* "look to foreign markets" & citizens in both states are

in economic crisis.

but the corporations & financiers are doing just fine.

they're *in* china, they're *in* india, (britain has a couple of hundred years' experience in both), they're already there, they hire chinese & indians, they have deals with native corps, in some cases us/uk capitalists actually *are* the supposedly "native" corps, they fund & invest in native corps, they sell to them (GM = #1 in china, it almost has more employees in china than in the us), they know all about the 'needs' of indians & chinese.

http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1909818_1908558,00.html

gm also has the best-selling van in china & the top navigation system.

About 99% of supposedly "chinese" electronic exports are wholly owned by foreign corps. and most of them manufacture for the chinese market as well.

that has nothing to do with "ourselves".

who is gordon brown talking to?

he's talking to the rubes that the government is presently subjecting to austerity policy.

talking about their non-existent bright future, if they would just "position themselves," as their ruling class sells them out & steals from them.

it's absolute crap.

[Cant trust em]

22. So then what's the next move? If it's all crap that is. nt

[Hannah Bell]

23. gordon brown = crap. he's a lying hypocrite. mentioning that fact doesn't oblige me

to set out an economic program for your benefit.

[Cant trust em]

24. I'm just curious to know what your opinion is on how to move forward.

If you are so certain that someone else's opinion is crap, then I don't know why it should be such a bother to put forth your own positive ideas.

If you don't know, just say so. I don't expect everyone on this board to have a PhD or anything.

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. Hannah doesn't have to live up to the same expectations other DU'ers do.

All she needs to do is point out what she sees as bullshit.

Never forget though, her opinion that forward thinking is for rubes.

[Hannah Bell]

27. yeah, you & gordon brown, making policy together. lol.

[Hannah Bell]

26. lol. my opinions about how to "move forward," as well as yours are worth their weight in horsepiss.

unless you are secretly a big campaign donor.

my "advice" -- to people who aren't big campaign donors -- is an entirely different matter than any useless "plans to move forward".

ordinary citizens who construct "plans to move forward" under the assumption that those in power might actually listen to them can properly be called cranks.

[cherokeeprogressive]

28. Thanks for proving the point. No plan is better than having a plan. You have no plan. Nor will you

discuss one.

Snark and snide is the best ya got. I understand.

[Hannah Bell]

29. oh, i have a plan. nothing to do with organizing the global economy, though.

you feel free to construct yours & let me know how far it gets you.

do tell me when gordie comes to you for policy advice.

or when you get rich donors to back your great agenda.

or when your million-strong army of footsoldiers is ready to lobby for your reforms.

time-tested ideas for widely shared prosperity are a dime a dozen.

those in power have no interest in them. that would involve giving up some of their power; & in case you haven't noticed, people & groups rarely give up their power except under threat of a greater power.

that's the problem, not the paucity of "plans".

the other problem is that there are still too many people willing to cheer on the kind of bullshit gordon brown is pushing:

"boys & girls, never mind that we're cutting your jobs now, that we're cutting the social safety net now, that we're making record profits now -- just a little shared sacrifice until we position ourselves for the new global economy! our sacrifice? god, this hurts us more than it hurts you, we're terribly torn up that we have to fire you, you know...& we work night & day to 'position ourselves' -- all for *your* benefit!"

[cherokeeprogressive]

31. You say you have a plan. I read your post three times and didn't see it anywhere.

Care to share?

[Hannah Bell]

33. no, i don't care to, as it has nothing to do with you, or gordon brown, or

"positioning ourselves".

you like positioning, go position yourself.

[cherokeeprogressive]

5. I'd build a two-seat vehicle.

Tube frame, a four cylinder engine like that in today's motorcycles, no a/c, no power anything other than brakes. Small like the Smart Car but with a longer wheelbase. Make it in multiple configurations based on one chassis. Car, truck, van.

Offer it in hybrid form where the wheels are always driven by electric motors and powered by either battery or gas-driven generator. If it's powered by batteries, use two, and drive the car with one while the other is being recharged by the small internal combustion engine.

2.4 billion people is a HUGE market.

[dkf]

7. Heck yeah.

Even the opportunities for fast food are huge.

[cherokeeprogressive]

9. Actually I think drive-thrus should all be banned.

Sitting with your car idling for 10 minutes while waiting for that McHuge burger, fries, and shake isn't good for you, it's not good for me, and it's not good for the environment.

The emerging economies of China and India though will rely on transportation to grow. Maybe we should also look in the direction of rail transportation as well, and design a better, cheaper, and less expensive means of transporting goods to and from their ports.

[Hannah Bell]

30. US autocorps build in china for the chinese market, not in the us.

and GM has the best-selling car in china already, and had off & on for the last ten years.

it didn't help us workers one bit.

They now make $14 an hour, & there are only about 40,000 of them left.


"GM has 10 joint ventures and two wholly owned foreign enterprises as well as more than 35,000 employees in China.

GM, along with its joint ventures, offers the broadest lineup of vehicles and brands among automakers in China. Products are sold under the Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, Opel, Wuling and Jiefang nameplates.

In 2009, domestic sales of vehicles by GM and its joint ventures jumped 66.9 percent on an annual basis to 1,826,424 units. GM ended 2009 with an estimated market share in China of 13.4 percent.

It has been the sales leader among global automakers in China for five consecutive years."

http://www.gm.com/corporate/careers/global.jsp?p=china_history

have they "positioned themselves" well enough, do you think?

hope so, they used your bailout money & US workers' retirements & wages to do it.

Shanghai General Motors Co. Ltd. (Shanghai GM) is a joint venture with Shanghai Automotive Industry Corp. Group (SAIC), a leading passenger car manufacturer in China. GM holds a 49 percent stake. Shanghai GM was formed in June 1997. It is fully supported by a network of sales, aftersales and parts centers. It builds, imports and sells a comprehensive range of Buick, Cadillac and Chevrolet products. In 2009, Shanghai GM's domestic sales rose 63.3 percent to 727,620 units.

Pan Asia Technical Automotive Center (PATAC) is a 50-50 joint venture between GM and SAIC. It provides automotive engineering services including design, development, testing and validation of components and vehicles. Among its achievements is the reengineering of the new Buick LaCROSSE, Cadillac SLS and other products for Shanghai GM.

SAIC-GM-Wuling Automobile Co. Ltd. (SAIC-GM-Wuling) is a joint venture that was launched in 2002. GM China holds a 34.0 percent stake, while SAIC holds 50.1 percent and Wuling Motors holds 15.9 percent. The joint venture is situated in Liuzhou, Guangxi Zhuang Autonomous Region. It has a second manufacturing base in Qingdao, Shandong. SAIC-GM-Wuling manufactures a range of Wuling brand mini-trucks and minivans as well as the Chevrolet Spark mini-car. In 2009, SAIC-GM-Wuling's domestic sales reached 1,061,213 units, representing an increase of 63.9 percent from 2008. It became the first automaker in China to sell more than 1 million vehicles in a single year. It ended 2009 number one in sales among Chinese mini-vehicle producers for the fourth straight year.

Shanghai GM (Shenyang) Norsom Motors Co. Ltd. is a joint venture formerly known as Jinbei General Motors. Shanghai GM holds a 50 percent stake and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each hold 25 percent stakes in the facility, which is located in Shenyang, Liaoning. It manufactures the Buick GL8 and FirstLand executive wagons and the Chevrolet Cruze compact sedan.

Shanghai GM Dong Yue Motors Co. Ltd. is a joint venture manufacturing facility situated in Yantai, Shandong. Shanghai GM holds a 50 percent stake and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each hold 25 percent stakes in the facility, which manufactures Chevrolet brand vehicles.

Shanghai GM Dong Yue Automotive Powertrain Co. Ltd. is a joint venture located in Yantai, Shandong. Shanghai GM owns 50 percent and oversees management. GM China and SAIC each own 25 percent. The facility supplies powertrains to Shanghai GM.

GMAC-SAIC Automotive Finance Co., Ltd. became China's first approved and operational automotive financing company when it opened for business in August 2004. The joint venture between GMAC LLC, Shanghai Automotive Group Finance Co. Ltd. (SAICFC) and Shanghai GM was providing wholesale service to more than 510 Shanghai GM dealers in more than 187 cities and retail credit service to 543 Shanghai GM dealers in 197 cities across China at the end of 2009.

Shanghai OnStar Telematics Co. Ltd. is a Shanghai-based joint venture that provides a range of in-vehicle safety, security and communication services. Established in 2007, it began rolling out its services in December 2009, initially in vehicles manufactured and distributed in China by Shanghai GM. GM subsidiary OnStar and SAIC subsidiary Shanghai Automotive Industry Sales Co. Ltd. (SAISC) each own 40 percent of the joint venture. Shanghai GM owns the remaining 20 percent.

FAW-GM Light Duty Commercial Vehicle Co. Ltd. is a 50-50 joint venture between GM China and China FAW Group Corp. (FAW), one of China's leading automakers. It was launched on August 30, 2009 and is based in Changchun, Jilin. It is focused on the production and sale of light-duty trucks and vans. It will also engage in R&D, exports and aftersales support. The joint venture includes Ha'erbin Light Vehicle Co., Ltd., which is located in Ha'erbin, Heilongjiang, and FAW's share in Hongta Yunnan Automobile Manufacturing Co., Ltd., which is situated in Qujing, Yunnan. FAW-GM sold 34,510 vehicles in 2009.

General Motors SAIC Investment Ltd. is a 50-50 joint venture investment company between GM and SAIC that is situated in Hong Kong. It is facilitating GM and SAIC's expansion efforts in India and other emerging markets.

GM Warehousing and Trading (Shanghai) Co. Ltd. is located in Shanghai's Waigaoqiao Free Trade Zone. The wholly owned parts distribution center (PDC) officially started operation in August 1999. It was established to ensure the quick delivery of genuine GM parts to customers in mainland China. The PDC features a fully computerized management and inventory control system and stocks about 25,000 different parts.

GM (China) Investment Corp. is a wholly owned venture based in Shanghai. It houses all of GM's local staff and is an investor in GM's vehicle joint ventures in China.

ACDelco, the world's leading aftermarket brand, operates a growing network of 85 wholesale distributors and 380 ACDelco Service Centers in China. The facilities, which stock genuine ACDelco parts, provide repair and maintenance services for all makes and models of vehicles on China's roads.

General Motors-Shanghai Jiao Tong University Institute of Automotive Research is a cooperative institution established by GM and Shanghai Jiao Tong University. It serves as an umbrella organization for both new and existing joint research and educational programs.

http://www.gm.com/corporate/careers/global.jsp?p=china_history

[cherokeeprogressive]

32. Casual perusal of my post should have led you to understand I wasn't describing a car for the US

market.

I didn't even describe a car that could be compared to anything GM is building at the moment.

My car could be built for 1/3rd of any car GM builds at the moment. It could be built here in many small plants.

[Hannah Bell]

34. and casual perusal of my subject line should have led you to understand i wasn't either.

gm & their chinese joint ventures are already building your tiny car, for cheaper than you could build it in the us.

sells for less than $7K & even at those prices most chinese can't afford it.

but you go ahead & position yourself for that 2.4 billion market.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. I don't think it's either/or.

I don't think China should be permitted to keep their currency artificially low and use slave labor, and I also think there is tremendous opportunity in selling to the global markets of people who have been lifted out of poverty in the last 10 years.

[leftstreet]

16. This would be a great time to open sweatshops in the US !!

[Hannah Bell]

35. for sure! come on now, let's all position ourselves! or assume the position, whatever!

[Monk06]

18. China is a feudal autocracy and always will be. Gordon Brown is an imbecile if he

thinks the CCP elite are the least bit interested in
creating a middle class that will compete with it for
power.

Really the British political establishment are children.

[anaxarchos]

36. As long as I have heard Gordon Brown, the line has always been the same...

"We" should "position ourselves" means YOU should cut wages, cut benefits, accept austerity and THEN, "we" will be competitive again. It is not an invitation to a public discussion on what to build or how to "position". It is yet another lecture on restarting the race to the bottom.

This is how far the British "Labor" Party has come. Blair was only an appetizer.

No worries, though... the American Democrats will NEVER go there...