What do you make of the fact that TSA has grown more intrustive under the Obama Administration?

[Stinky The Clown]

TSA was never good. It has gotten worse. It is making digital images of your junk. It is about to expand the sphere if its crotch sniffing to trains, and maybe even your own car.

Much of what we detest about the TSA has occurred under a Democratic administration.

What do you make of that?

[woo me with science]

1. I think there is no way Democrats would have stood for this

under a Republican administration.

[Dept of Beer]

28. Which Democrats are you speaking of?

The Congressional Democrats of 2001 or the Congressional Democrats of 2011?

[woo me with science]

66. I am speaking of any Democrats who defend this crap.

Some people will defend anything as long as it is implemented by someone with a "D" after his name. Wars, cuts to the social safety net, delay of equal marriage rights, corporatization of our schools and health care...you name it.

See Sabrina's post below. Liberals were successful in holding back many attempted TSA abuses while Bush was in office. Once it is a Democrat putting them into place, everything changes for some.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1365458&mesg_id=1366540

There is no way in hell you would be seeing the constant defense of TSA you see on DU, had these patdowns been initiated under Bush.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sendero]

96. Eggs..

... freaking xactly. The double standard is alive and well at DU.

[Springer9]

46. Maybe someone is reading and paying attention to the

Daily presidential security briefings this time. Just a guess.

[woo me with science]

68. I don't care what they are reading.

Is your point that lining up Americans for naked scans and crotch inspections is somehow justified?

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. The theater is easily breachable

keep believing this is about security.

[tavalon]

88. That's why I find it so difficult to not speak my mind

It's the TSA Dog and Pony theater.

[nadinbrzezinski]

93. Can I borrow that? It is cute

TSA dog and pony show....

<------ having limited experience in security... and hubby has extensive... at this point we laugh. It is better than the other choice...

As hubby put it... Mexico City would be that far more difficult, not impossible, to breach... that said impossible would mean no travel...

[tavalon]

138. Spread it far and wide

It would please me greatly.

[Divernan]

78. Which "presidential security briefings" were those, and what did they address?

(1) the one where a terminally ill, wheel-chair bound, 94 year old woman's daughter was ordered to change her mother's "dirty adult diaper"?
(2) or the one where people were searched/scanned for explosives when EXITING a train?
(3) or the one where a FEMA employee was not allowed to use their Department of Homeland Security photo ID to get through security at an airport?
(4) or the one where an American citizen was not allowed to use their federally issued, photo ID, Passport Card?

I doubt it, since there has not been a single incident where an unexamined dirty diaper, a person who has COMPLETED their trip, a FEMA employee, or a US citizen with a Passport Card, had committed an act of terrorism.

Those 4 examples are all TSA incidents I have read about, or heard directly about from the person experiencing the TSA Idiocy.

Foreign airports go through the "remove shoes" idiocy only for planes headed to the US. I just heard from one international traveler that the way some foreign airports choose to enforce that is that they randomly select just a few passengers for that particular inconvenience.

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. Mexico does not make you remove shoes

when the US had a hissy fit, the Mexican Air Service just went ahead and kept doing what it does....

I feel safer flying from down there still.

Oh and the backscatter is in place, but I have yet to see it working.

[Warren Stupidity]

2. The New Totalitarianism is independent of the nominal leaders.

We live in a global police state. That became official with the passage of the "Patriot Act" after Sept 2001. But that official demarcation was just the emergence of an unofficial process that started at least as far back as 1980, and perhaps back in the 50s. The NT is not like the Classic Totalitarianism of the 1930s. It is kinder and gentler superficially, it likes to dress up in nice representational democracy costumes, and parade around singing songs of freedom and liberty. It is far more pervasive too, employing the vast resources of the state to engage in continuous realtime monitoring of millions of people while concurrently keeping dossiers on everyone - a STASI wet dream of surveillance.

Like its ancestors from the CT era, the NT era is very fond of military domination and technology. It seems they took literally Guevara's threat of "one two three... many vietnams" and turned it upside down. Now we indeed have many vietnams, all started by our masters of the Global New Totalitarianism, and the permanent state of global war is all part of their plan.

Obama is just a figure head. As will be his successor. Was it Carlin who suggested that they took the new president down into the war room of the white house and showed him the other film of the kennedy assassination, the one that isn't the zapruder film we all got to see?

[bemildred]

7. +1. nt

[some guy]

38. agree.

well said.

[EFerrari]

75. I agree with most of that. n/t

[Edweird]

83. Bill Hicks

[Warren Stupidity]

139. thanks - I thought Carlin was wrong.

[daleo]

92. The soft tyranny of global capitalism

We still have some nominal rights in theory, but in practice they can all be abused and ignored in the name of security and/or free trade.

[rhett o rick]

107. I only disagree with when it became official. I had hope when a Repub admin did it

(the Patriot Act, etc), but now that a Democratic president has accepted it and continues it, I have lost hope.

This is much bigger than Obama. Toward the end of the Bush/Cheney reign, the overlords could tell the masses were getting restless, so instead of continuing the Bush/Cheney reign indefinitely, they decided to let Obama win and then prove to the masses that the struggle is futile.

[Doctor_J]

117. That's my take, Warren

What do I make of it? That I was stupid to believe we were going to get real change.

[truth2power]

121. So much of your post is spot-on, Warren. The New Totalitarianism..

or Inverted Totalitarianism as Sheldon Wolin describes it. No need to reiterate it here, as most are acquainted with his work.

As you said, "Obama is just a figure head. As will be his successor." You're correct. All this posturing about this or that candidate is just smoke and mirrors. The outcome is already ordained. US presidents are nothing but ciphers; like the Queen of England.

Through ongoing election fraud and/or media manipulation the next president will be the person who the corporate state thinks will best serve their interests - likely Obama this time around, as he's done such a stellar job so far.

It's depressing. And right now, today, I think that Chris Hedges describes the problem most clearly and tells us what we need to do to extricate ourselves from this situation.

[Edweird]

3. If the TSA fucks with me in my own car things will not end well.

That's where I draw the line.
As far as rhis happening under a 'Dem' adninistration, I think you are using 'Dem' far too generously. You could call yourself the queen of England, but that doesn't make it so.

[indepat]

11. RW governance by any other name is still

RW governance. :patriot:

[Dept of Beer]

29. Sigh...

You have to understand that the privilege of driving your car does not supersede the TSAs right to touch your junk while you are in it.

Look at the TSA as your benevolent side-passenger/backseat driver: a Soviet-style political officer assigned to make sure that you follow party(s) line...while the fondle your junk.

[rhett o rick]

108. It is not going to end well. That is the goal. nm

[Le Taz Hot]

4. I make of it the same way

I make of continuing the Patriot Act and continuing the insane WoD, in particular, MM. Apparently he thinks this whole Right to Privacy as well as basic Civil Rights is way overrated.

On edit: Tried to recommend but it seems the Cheer Squad is active this morning.

[ThomWV]

5. What do we make of the NSA getting no public attention anymore? Same thing, different Agency

[ProSense]

6. The TSA

just unionized. Maybe the unions will improve the conditions.

[Edweird]

8. "Conditions" for whom? The citizens being sexually assaulted? Not likely.

[ProSense]

9. What?

First of all, the TSA has always been the same as it is now. It's simply being exposed now.

Secondly, unions will get flak if any union employee is charged with abusing their authority. This may very well result in more quality employees.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

20. Bullshit.

TSA has a problem with its own policy. Don't dare try to pin this on an occasional rogue employee.

And it is definitely growing more intrusive. More and more airports are getting naked scanners, and we have an "enhanced patdown procedure" as of last November that sexually assaults citizens. Now the TSA is moving to trains, trolleys, and highways.

OF COURSE the TSA is getting more intrusive.

It has gotten worse, and President Obama not only defends this crap, he has JOKED about it publicly.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/26/obamas-tsa-patdowns-joke-infuriates-aclu/

[ProSense]

123. Bullshit back at you

"It has gotten worse, and President Obama not only defends this crap, he has JOKED about it publicly."

[woo me with science]

136. And with that, folks,

the quality of the argument speaks, quite stunningly, for itself.

Have fun, all.

[Glassunion]

137. Perhaps you missed the State of the Union where he did JOKE about it...

Of course that "joke" he made was also a bit of a lie as well.

http://nothingtonpost.blogspot.com/2011/01/obama-jokes-about-public-angst-over-tsa.html

"Within 25 years, our goal is to give 80 percent of Americans access to high-speed rail. (Applause.) This could allow you to go places in half the time it takes to travel by car. For some trips, it will be faster than flying — without the pat-down."


Hmmm... Yet we read stories about the TSA doing those same lovely pat-downs in train stations.

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2011/06/tsa-swarms-8000-bus-stations-public-transit-systems-yearly

[Dept of Beer]

32. Or it may not. "May" is a very open word to interpretation.

[Edweird]

34. I find it quite telling that the propaganda being excreted is unusually full of weasel words.

[Dept of Beer]

56. Are you suggesting that there MAY be paid PROpagandists

trolling on this site? Do tell?

[Gormy Cuss]

42. So they need a union in order to higher better quality employees?

I don't think so. There are many good, high quality employees now among the rank and file in the TSA. Unionization will help give them a voice on workplace conditions, from pay to training to limits on blue glove searches. Good union representation should make the TSA experience better for all of us.

[Gormy Cuss]

76. Ugh. "Hire" not, "higher."

[sabrina 1]

50. Wrong. Under this administration the TSA finally got permission

to install Naked Scanners in airports around the country after six years of tyring under Bush. Those efforts were stalled by the 'left' through Civil Liberties organizations who successfully stopped them from being used here.

But to make them more palatable to the traveling public, people had the option to refuse to go through them, agreeing to a regular pat-down instead, wand etc.

This was a problem since Chertoff et al needed to sell more machines. So in the Fall of last year, the TSA introduced the new, abusive 'enhanced patdowns' in order to force people to choose the machines instead.

Nothing like this existed under Bush . The left made sure it didn't. When asked about these abuses, molestations of children and the disabled, women and men this President pointed out that his family would not have to submit them, he understood, but for the rest of us, they were necessary. Every American, from a new born baby to a 95 year-old is a suspect, now.

Fortunately the outrage which simply grows by the day, has resulted in 11 states considering legislation to ban them and to a Bill in Congress restricting their useas violations of the 4th Amendment.

This is a huge escalation of the violations of rights of the American people since the Bush era.

Hopefully the efforts to restore our rights will prevail considering all the lawsuits now filed and the bi-partisan efforst in many states and in Congress to do so.

Shame on this administration for allowing this to happen. And imho every leader in this country who claims that every citizen is suspect, should submit themsevles and their families to the same abuses. How do we know one of them won't get on a plane with a bomb hidden on their bodies? If that's the new standard, NO ONE should be exempt.

Leaders lead by example not by saying sorry but YOU and YOUR daughters have to submit to sexual molestation at the airport to kee pthis country safe, but not me or my daughters.

[truth2power]

122. Outstanding post, Sabrina. n/t

[ProSense]

125. Finally?

Bullshit!

April 2009 Naked Body Scanners, Continued

2007

<...>

Last week, TSA began using backscatters at airports to screen passengers for weapons. The first machine is up and running in Phoenix. The next ones will be in New York and Los Angeles. The machines have been modified with a "privacy algorithm" to clean up what they show. But even the tempered images tell you more than you need to know about the endowments of the people seated next to you.

<...>{/div]

[awoke_in_2003]

74. For the TSA folks, of course...

now they get a mandatory coffee break every 10 fondlings.

[AllyCat]

130. I would have to say I disagree. With a union at table, there is a chance things will improve for us

I am a union nurse. If not for us, patient safety would be out the window as long as they can maintain "damage control" on their image. Unions do improve safety for everyone and are more likely to value civil rights than a behemoth, fascist corporation.

I'd be interested to see what happens with this over time. However, I do think it will get worse before it gets better. They'll need time to get their sea legs.

[TheKentuckian]

13. Disgusting to use unionization as a shield against reaction to the violation of our rights

It takes a shrunken soul, balls big as church bells, the perverse stupidity of hero worship, and/or a certain level of callousness that comes with zealotry to twist solidarity to a form of spiritual suicide like you seem to be hinting at.

Maybe I greatly misinterpret but at bare minimum, defunding and ending the agency would seem a much more sure bet than hoping TSA workers use their union muscles to improve conditions over some unknown time horizon, instead of trying like ever other union to get decent wages and benefits.

These workers were seemingly allowed to unionize as a layer of protection for the agency against expected attacks from the left because it is repugnant to have to go after union brothers and sisters in the night of the long knives but the reality is in the current climate, the only way to affect anything the government does in such areas is to go after the funding.

No bucks, no Buck Rogers.

Before long the police will have to be dealt with similarly, reduce funding and go after wages and benefits to the point the system is overwhelmed and recruits cannot be attracted and veterans quit like they are trying to do to public school teachers right now which eventually will leave them effectively unable to function.

It is a terrible thing but increasingly seems to be the only real tool in the toolbox as far as a political solution other than magically getting the opposition to reign them in because our folks are far to afraid of hypothetical blow back. So afraid in fact that it is our folks who ratchet and ramp this shit up after the dumpsterfires create enhancements to the police state.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

16. Great to hear - Privatization (ie blackwater) & anti-union advocates have been very vocal about TSA

I hear a great deal of teacher bashing, government worker bashing, police and fire fighting bashing - and I hear the TSA bashing with a suspicious ear because of those that would like to privatize this agency.

[Edweird]

17. Privatize? Not on your life. Abolish? Prosecute? Incarcerate? Now you're talking.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

18. Why stop there? How about Parasites? Thugs? Socialists? Sorry, I got confused - That is Limbaugh's

description of Teachers. There is a tremendous attack on unions and the middle class right now: Post Office, Government Workers, Teachers, TSA, Police Officers, Fire Fighters, AND Black Water is licking its lips for a TSA-like contract - SO why not just release a big load of discrediting info, not unlike the teacher bashing, etc.

[Edweird]

23. Maybe you should stop listening to Limbaugh. This is a thread about the TSA. Do try to keep up.

If you approve of the continuation and expansion of *'s authoritarian TSA by Obama, well, I guess that explains why you listen to Limbaugh. The rest of us are appalled at the apparent police state. This isn't about unionization, this is about the TSA and how it shouldn't exists in the first place.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

33. Limbaugh / DU - often it's the same talking points & of course he always speaks for "The rest of us"

And it is about Unionization & it is about Privatization & it is about Demonization - because there is a Hell of a lot of money to be made by Blackwater et el, if they got took over TSA, as there is a Hell of a lot money to be made by for profit schools if the Teachers Union is broken - So with that sort of incentive for dismantling, discrediting, and demonizing this agency - Color me skeptical of motive.

[Stinky The Clown]

35. I will bet *anything* you're smarter than you appear and are being disingenuous.

The notion of not favoring TSA is shared by the left and right, you're correct. The disingenuous part comes in when one ascribes motives. There, the two groups separate diametrically. Using Limbaugh's position to argue against objections from the left is just plain dishonest, so stop it.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

40. It weakens a position when one resorts to insults & since I don't agree with you....

[Stinky The Clown]

41. Sometimes a righteous criticism sounds to the criticized as if it is an insult.

You were being completely disingenuous and you know you were.

[Edweird]

36. Be as 'skeptical' as you want, I don't give a crap. Fuck the TSA and their apologists.

[AnotherMother4Peace]

43. How dare you label & use the F** word at me - Bullying & intimidation - nothing more.

This is the part I detest about DU - The name calling, Bullying, innuendos - But it does serve it's purpose - it intimidates and drives people away.

[Stinky The Clown]

44. You started with a dishonest argument.

When you get called on it but persist, this kind of thing sometimes happens.

By the way, I can point to posts by the admins of DU where they use "the F*** word." In one case, it was famously couple with the mother "mother".

And the word is "fuck". Does Eff and Three Stars somehow make it better?

[Edweird]

45. Here's a label for you: Strawman. You are trying to conflate opposition to authoritarian sexual

assault/humiliation with anti-union sentiment. It's transparent and full of fail. People are rightly outraged about this. The TSA should be abolished. It is RW authoritarianism run amok.

LOL @ "How dare you" thnx4lulz

[tpsbmam]

49. Edweird didn't use fuck *AT* you, he said fuck the TSA.

BIG difference.

[Edweird]

54. The goal is to shift the discussion away from TSA abuses.

[Union Scribe]

114. Like the innuendo you're oozing about people criticizing the TSA?

[jberryhill]

21. Oh and don't forget secessionist state legislation / nt

[Stinky The Clown]

26. You're kidding, right?

I hear calls to end it. Only the right wing wants to privatize it. Don't conflate the motives of TSA's critics, it weakens your argument to irrelevance.

[Union Scribe]

113. Cops are "union" too. Do you support them, too, when they abuse their power?

And these criticisms aren't new, they go back to the agency's formation and have gotten louder as their practices have become more and more unacceptable.

[Dept of Beer]

31. Well if they are union then I guess that it will be a step in the right direction

of them being immune from charges of harassment.

[guardian]

81. How? n/t

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. There are only a few reasonable conclusions

None of which reflect particularly well on the President IMHO.

[Tom Rinaldo]

12. I make of it that they haven't changed their stated mission

...which is to "keep plane travel safe" by screening/searching passengers. Now whether or not that is realistic or obtainable or the best or worst strategy, or whether other security threats are being ignored, or if the loss of freedoms is worth it etc. is subject to debate. But those few extremists out there who actually want to smuggle bombs or whatever onto planes keep modifying their tactics and work to evade security measures. It's like any other "arms race". New offensive weapons are developed and new defenses get developed against them in return. The old metal detector technology is becoming increasingly obsolete.

I don't think it has anything to do with Obama becoming President. It's a natural progression of the same old mind set.

[avebury]

15. K&R

[jberryhill]

19. That nothing could hurt his re-election more than a terrorist attack

They tried to hang the Christmas undie bomber around his neck, unsuccessfully.

[Stinky The Clown]

22. So crotch sniffing is okay with you if it gets Obama reelected?

Sorry. That price is too high for me.

[jberryhill]

24. I did not even imply that

But having just flown from Philadelphia to Chicago to Hong Kong to Singapore... And then back within a week, the security was really the least of the inconveniences, really. And nobody sniffed my crotch... Not even in Singapore where it is illegal to bring in chewing gum.

I went through security in and out of Cartagena Colombia a few months ago. They'll take you back for a full abdominal xray if they feel like it. That was the most obtrusive security I've encountered in the last several months and a lot of flights. The Swiss are pretty thorough too.

I had a guy next to me in Economy Plus on US 895 to Hong Kong who weighed 400 pounds if he weighed an ounce and took up half my seat. He had expected to be reseated next to an empty, but it was a full flight. I ended up standing for a couple of hours into the flight because it was just impossible to occupy mine without serious Yoga skills and Zen mind/body control. An FA found an empty seat in economy for me, so I paid extra for a seat, just so that guy could have both his and mine.

I don't even remember security for that outbound leg.

[Stinky The Clown]

30. Akshully, ya did.

Also, "we don't sniff your crotch as deeply as some other countries do" is also a pretty weak argument.

Where did those "worster" crotch sniffers get the moral permission to do what they're doing?

By the way, I, too, have been to Singapore. It is singularly different. A benevolent dictatorship that its citizens (mostly) gladly accept in exchange for living as they do. Be that as it is, it is hardly what I would have chosen to use as an example were I furthering your argument.

[Edweird]

27. Really? 9-11 sure didn't hurt *.

[rhett o rick]

109. There is absolutely no correlation between what TSA does and the prevention of a terrorist

attack. The TSA behavior is intimidation, nothing else.

[Dept of Beer]

25. If President Obama has moved forward to make the TSA more

aggressive by expanding it into other areas of Americans lives then I guess we should only blame President Bush.

If Bush hadn't opened pandora's box then he wouldn't have given Obama the ability to double down.


So it is alright that President Obama is expanding the TSA's right to grope babies and sick grandmothers.
They are the first line in the ongoing war with Osama Bin Ladin's ghost.

[truth2power]

126. That one phrase of yours is very interesting..."at war with Osama Bin Laden's ghost"..

I hadn't thought of that, but it's true, isn't it? OBL is gone (allegedly). But they still need some sort of pretense for all this fear-mongering. Hmm....the more things change, etc....

[underpants]

37. Eh the whole thing was Fox News creating a story from one viral youtube video

suddenly everyone got up in arms about the same thing they claimed as their trump card (security).

[DirkGently]

39. It suggests the Police State machinery has not been dismantled. By accident or design?

[rhett o rick]

110. How can it be by accident? nm

[DirkGently]

140. Good question.

[treestar]

47. It'll get worse with time no matter what

Technology will see to that.

People shouldn't have made the jokes about flying naked. While that would not happen, people would figure out how to make the same thing technologically.

[jimmyflint]

48. I think it's sad,

That some people are so unprincipled. Bad behavior should not be tolerated. It simply should not matter whether it's a Republican or a Democrat in charge. A principled person will confront bad behavior, even if it's their guy doing it. The continuation of Bush's gestapo bullshit is disheartening. The expansion of bush's gestapo is fucking disgusting. This is behavior I have come to expect from the Rethugs, but what does that make you when you out Republican the Republicans?

[Rex]

51. No worse then Homeland Security.

Our politicans on both side love them some police state!!! It goes along with their fantasy bubble taht America is on the road to recovery and job growth is right around that next corner! Honest!

[Hotler]

52. Bitch, bitch, bitch. Stop bashing the president.

That is all I read on Du is Obama bashing.:evilgrin:

[Stinky The Clown]

59. You wouldn't have based Bush for doing the very same thing?

[Hotler]

60. Just kidding. I was all over the shrub. I guess I should of used the

:sarcasm: thingy. Love ya Stink.

[Stinky The Clown]

89. I think my hat was on a little too tight.

I see now what your post was intending.

Its all good! :thumbsup:

[rhett o rick]

111. That was a dirty trick not using the sarcasm-thingy earlier. nm

[somone]

53. Obama said it's necessary, so it's all good

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289750/ns/travel/t/obama-tsa-pat-downs-frustrating-necessary/

Obama: TSA pat-downs frustrating but necessary
President says enhanced airport security measures necessary to guard against new terrorist techniques

LISBON, Portugal — President Barack Obama on Saturday acknowledged some travelers' "frustrations" with having to go through full-body pat-downs and scans at airports, but he said the enhanced security measures are necessary to keep America safe.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divernan]

79. Remember how Queen Elizabeth kept her daughters in London during the blitz?

And the Queen Mother stayed on as well? It was about demonstrating solidarity & a spirit of "we're all in this together" to the rest of London, and the UK as a whole.

So let's see some reports that everyone flying on Air Force One has to go through the full body scans and intrusive groping before each flight. Like the President's wife, mother-in-law, and daughters.

[Boudica the Lyoness]

132. +1000

[Dept of Beer]

86. Yeah, I guess. For our own good.

:eyes:

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. I wonder how he sleeps at night?

:shrug:

[Dept of Beer]

98. He and him fam are not being groped.

[Divernan]

116. Probably goes to sleep reviewing how much of his $billion campaign funds he's raised

Sheep are jumping over a fence, each one labeled with an amount & the logo of it's corporation.

[Hippo_Tron]

58. That there's bipartisan consensus on invasive screening, at least in the executive branch

The porno scanners existed under Bush, they just had yet to be implemented everywhere.

[krabigirl]

61. I don't think the democrats or the republicans have ever been for protecting civil liberties.

[Dept of Beer]

99. You must admit it gets in the way of things.

That and the fist amendment. Wait, do we still have a first amendment any longer?

[neverforget]

144. the 1st Amendment is being turned into a corporate playground

[Zax2me]

62. Probably just not yet on his radar

Naturally growing worse until repaired.
He's dealing with HUGE messes from previous administration.
Squeaky wheel gets most attention.
Guess enough aren't complaining about this.

[woo me with science]

70. Oh, it's on his radar. He thinks it's hilarious.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/01/26/obamas-tsa-patdowns-joke-infuriates-aclu/

[Dept of Beer]

100. Perhaps his radar is passive?

:shrug:

[sixmile]

63. The Genie is out of the bottle

no American President can put it back in. Only a HUGE move by Congress can do that.

[GoneOffShore]

97. And the Congress Critters are making too much from this to dismantle it.

That and the "We have to be safe - ALL THE TIME - crowd."

[Dept of Beer]

101. Who is the leader of the Democratic party?

[Recovered Repug]

64. That it doesn't take much to be declared

a "Constitutional Scholar".

[KG]

65. IOKIODI

[inna]

67. uh, what hasn't. why should TSA be any different. :shrug:

[BlueIris]

71. The fascist elements of our government have a weak president they can walk all over.

Who has no interest in what they are doing to us.

[Generic Other]

72. It's like how goldfish grow in a bowl

as big as you will let them as long as you give them food. They will consume the space.

[awoke_in_2003]

73. I don't think it has grown more intrusive...

because of Obama, but because that it what law enforcement agencies tend to do. They get more fascist as they age, and NO ONE does a damn thing about it.

[guardian]

80. This wasn't the "hope and change" that I voted for!

Even Shrub didn't go this far. What the hell is wrong with Washington?

[Edweird]

84. Change for the worse is still 'change'.

[tavalon]

90. What the hell is wrong with us?

It's our job to keep the fascism out and we haven't. During the Bush administration, we fought back hard. Now that a Democrats holds the presidency, the left has become fractured.

[Dept of Beer]

103. They'er sceerd.

Are they sceered of the citizens of the USA or Osama's ghost?

[kath]

82. Stinky, in your OP, your forgot to put the word "Democratic" in quotation marks.

A Democrat he ain't.

[dionysus]

91. i'm glad you get to feel this way for the next 6 years!

:woohoo:

[Dept of Beer]

105. swift travel the years

liberty falls by fiat

once free now subjects

[LanternWaste]

85. I image that my own analysis is more often than not, subjective.

I image that my own analysis is more often than not, subjective. That's what I make of it.

[tavalon]

87. I think our united front against abuses in the Bush era,

became fractured when the same abuses were continued and even advanced under the Obama era. Only a few of us hold them both to similar standards. I just went on a plane trip last week and the TSA was quite surprised that I "opted out" of the backscatter xray. Seems that's an unusual stand. My boyfriend did have to coach me on the words to say as I was intending to say, "I'm not going into that fucking machine". Good call on his part as I guess we would have missed our plane if I fucked with the brownshirts. Probably would have made it onto the ever expanding no-fly list, too.

[unkachuck]

95. "What do you make of that?"

....it appears there isn't much difference between Dems and pukes when it comes to crotch sniffing (and many other issues)....

....we must protect the corporate order and interest against all enemies, real or imagined, now and forever into the future....

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

102. Like most things, my father puts it best. He compares the TSA to the HCUA

Like the TSA the House Unamerican Activities Committee is a government body which in the name of security was afforded a tremendous amount of unchecked authority and with it exceeded the boundaries of decency and commonsense and completely discredited itself to all but authoritarians and cowering imbeciles. The same will happen to the TSA as with each passing year they overshoot previous caricatures of itself. The discredited body will then gradually be stripped of responsibilities and funding until it is either disbanded or absorbed into another agency. And like HCUA authoritarians and imbeciles will attempt to rehabilitate and vindicate the TSA and the work they did.

[kath]

104. +100.

[maxpower]

106. Different side of same coin

Few true Dems left. FDR would be ashamed.

Peace,
Max

[jberryhill]

112. LOL... FDR put Japanese Americans in concentration camps

[pecwae]

115. He's a politician.

He and other politicians and the politically appointed, whatever party affiliation comes behind their names, don't have to live in the same manner as the rest of us and aren't subject to the same rules.

I can say that the TSA bloat coming under a Democratic admin has made me even more cynical towards politics and politicians in so far as that is possible.

[MannyGoldstein]

118. Third-way "Democrat" rule #1: NEVER allow the RIght to call you a wimp

You must out-war, and out tough-on-crime the Right at every turn. Hell, Clinton executed a retarded inmate when running for President - that's the kind of moxie it takes to be a third-wayer.

[somone]

119. Third-wayers must also punish the poor and enrich the wealthy

the way God intended them

[Mosaic]

120. Obama sadly is a conservative democrat

We know how he feels about gay marriage, starting unjust wars like all presidents of this decaying empire, and a whole host of other things that keep the fire of christian fanatics off him for the most part. A liberal president is one I could stand behind 100%, not this one.

[NNN0LHI]

124. Maybe its because no good ole boys from Texas were crashing planes into federal buildings before?

Joe Stack. Forget about him already?

Don

[GreenArrow]

127. Two sausages were sitting in a skillet.

The first sausage says, wiping his brow, "whew, it sure is hot in here".

The other screamed, "Oh my God, a talking sausage!"

[AllyCat]

128. Trains?? Jeez, we take the train everywhere now that they want to grope

and x-ray me and my kids. Where did you hear that?

I'm not sure what to make of it. I've always thought even before Obama was elected, that he was a corporate man. However, I feel that most of this stems from the fact that no matter who we elect, the corporations run the country and tell us just how it is going to be so they can peddle their wares.

[Hubert Flottz]

129. Try not to think of it as the TSA, think more along the lines of the

Sturmabteilung(SA)with it's training wheels still bolted on.

We are becoming a nation of Bum Sniffing Dogs = The Terra-ists are winning again.

[guardian]

142. That's a bingo!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1367387&mesg_id=1367387

[Hubert Flottz]

145. I can't rec. so I can resurrect

Since the greed based Federal Government has resurrected a great deal of what the Nazis stood for.

[Name removed]

131. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[slackmaster]

133. A hat, or a brooch...

...or a pterodactyl.

[Moonwalk]

134. I make that the Obama Administration can't afford to have--

--Another 9/11 nor the appearance that this administration is not doing enough to prevent another 9/11. Effective or not, intrusive or not, if something happens Repukes can say, "See, Democrats are soft! We put these rules into place to stop this thing from happening, this wimp let 'em slide and see what's happened!"

Like it or not, the majority of American voters hate, absolutely hate, wimpy seeming politicians. It's why the Repuke keep trashing Dems in elections. Because no one who votes wants to say, "I'm voting for the tree-hugging, latte sipping, soft-on-crime and terrorists candidate." Americans want to be seen as mean and tough, gun-totting, don't-screw with me ganstas. And the ironic thing is that even as they scream for freedoms, they approve of more restrictions on freedoms if it means that we look tough. Like cameras and searches.

I think that until we change what American voters value, no democratic president is going to risk looking soft on terrorism.

[IthinkThereforeIAM]

135. A Double Edged Sword...

... To get the dirt on the illegal RICO like activities of the GOP and far right. I have thought that from the beginning. I just hope I am right.

[Old Troop]

141. Part of the problem is that we all accept it. The consequence of

objecting is, at best, you don't fly; at worst you go to jail. A boycott of the airlines (impossible) might help, but I'm sure that the focus would just move to trains, buses and autos if one came into being.

[lib2DaBone]

143. Why does Mr. Obama even want to run for re-election?

This country is such a mess.. why doesn't he just accept his cushy retirement and go claim his desk at Goldman-Sachs?