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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:05 PM
Original message
The other side of the unemployment benefits extension coin
We all know that the issue of unemployment and unemployment benefits has been a major "hot button" for some time now. Families lose homes, can't put food on the table, can't find work. I think we should help people who are trying to help themselves.

I have an acquaintance...I won't call him a friend, because he's not. This guy is a first-class douchebag.

He just got an extension of his unemployment benefits.

Because of this, he blew off a long-term contract job that had been offered to him. He didn't want the job if the clock was still running on his "free money." The only reason he did the first round of interviews was because he thought his benefits were going to max out. Then the extension came through and he never brought up the contract position again.

He's not trying to look for work at all...he just waits for that check to come in the mail. He stays out late, sleeps in late, hangs out with his buddies and that's pretty much it.

The guy's a fucking slob and basically not a nice person at all. He's a whiner and one of the most self-centered people you'd ever want to meet. Everything is about him, other people are just in the way of life as he wants it. He's the original "Bubble Boy."

He'll play this out for as long as he can, and when the plug is pulled on the regular checks, he'll find some new scam. But he's a lazy-assed fuck, and he doesn't care, because he's getting away with it.

Now, I know he is only one guy, and if you've read the post this far, you know that's how I've presented him...one guy collecting unemployment checks. That's not going to prevent someone from replying with "All unemployed people aren;t like that," even though I've said pretty much the same thing. That's OK. I know what I said and what I didn't say. It's right here on the screen for all to read (or ignore, or twist into something I didn't say).

So I know this one guy personally, and I also know hard-working people who are trying, and would have killed for the contract job this guy pissed away.

One coin, two sides. I know people on both. So do other people. And when they're talking about why benefits shouldn't be extended, they either say that because they're ignorant and don't give a fuck about the suffering of others, or they know a guy like the one I've just described. I don't know how he gets away with it, other than lying about his job search (and I've caught this guy in several lies based on things he's said to me and the way things have come back to me through mutual acquaintances). But if you help the honest, hard working people, the system is going to help guys like this too, and that's just the way it is.

It's his life, his business, his conscience, and if the government says he's entitled to those checks, he's entitled to those checks. If you ask me if it's a good idea to keep extending his benefits, I'd have to say no, because he's gonna be sitting on his ass in a Starbuck's somewhere, passing the time, while hard-working people bust their ass and he just sees them as chumps.

And as an adult, I've long since cut loose the notion of "justice" and "fairness." We should all believe in them as an ideal, but depending on them and expecting them to be mirrored in reality is for chumps, amd chumps only.

Perspective. It's all about perspective.

:rant:
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
1. Why do you hate the unemployed
You obviously think they're all a bunch of shiftless, lazy, good-for-nothings

:sarcasm:
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Unemployment benefits should be permanent at this point
'Extensions' shouldn't even be an issue

Do you have any idea how many jobs we'd need to create per year to get out of this?
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I'm talking about one guy I know who is gaming the system
I'm not talking about solving the unemployment crisis.

I'm talking about one guy receiving checks for what is supposed to be unemployment assistance, given under the premise that he will use the money to sustain himself while he is looking for work, and he is not looking for work.

That part in my original post where I put the "one guy" references in bold?

Maybe they should have been bolder, like

one guy.



Ya think?
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What were you hoping we'd learn from this?

:shrug:
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?
What was your point? Why did you bring it up?

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TheDebbieDee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #16
34. Lol !
Edited on Sat Jan-08-11 01:45 PM by TheDebbieDee
Cute baby.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
3. Deleted message
Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
4. people who are trying, and would have killed for the contract job this guy pissed away.
um ..someone DID get that job:)
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Oh, I know...
...it's more like people would have killed for that opportunity.
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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. Welfare Cadilac... unemployment king
Sure, there are a few of them, but last I checked, every coin had a flip side, and the number of people who would give up a long term contract job for a few months of unemployment are not the flip side. They are as micrscopic fraction, because I know many unemployed.

We really need to leave this idea that the poor are lazy behind. Yes, you see this on almost every telivison show where the poor are generally lazy clowns and the middle class are hard working individuals without flaw. This is certainly Republicans favorite talking point.

And the flip side of that guy getting a few more months of unemployment is the 1% getting more money back each year than you douche bag acquaintance will make in his lifetime.

Look for another conservative talking point.
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. It's not a conservative talking point
A conservative talking point on this issue, for me, would be someone talking about "the unemployed"...en masse...sitting on "their" ass, not looking for work, and if you read the original post...bold parts and all...you'd know I am talking about one guy I know who is receiving checks and applying for extensions and not doing one motherfucking thing to look for work.

If you can explain how that is a "conservative talking point, go right ahead.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #12
30. I can explain how!! Pick me!! Pick me!!
:rofl:

NGU.

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Ozymanithrax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
36. You start with "The other side of unemployment benefits" and hold one person...
up for scorn, as if one person of he millions looking for a job means dick.

People use this one person, or the one mythical welfare queen, or the one anecdotal welfare Cadillac to slime everyone.

One anecdotal person is an idiot, but when you use it to illustrate the bad side of extending welfare, you are tarring the whole system with one brush.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. The problem is that one story like this
is worth any number of actual statistics. The story sticks in people's minds, like Reagan's welfare queen and her Cadillac.

There are always a few people who will ride and abuse any system, and they provide the ammunition for the attack on all those who desperately want jobs. I would like to know what the ratio is between the bums and the frustrated job seekers; I think most people don't like to collect unemployment, for several reasons: it's not good for their self-esteem (most people want to be seen as responsible providers), they lose their health insurance, those UE checks just aren't as large as those old paychecks, and time spent on UE doesn't help you on SS and other retirement plans.

Just yesterday or so, I talked with a woman who expressed her growing worries about her husband's job security and then went on to deride the lazy bums collecting unemployment. Wow, what a schism she is carrying around in her head!
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. My COBRA payment is almost $500.00/month
You got that right. And that's for the crappy HMO one. I cannot wait to get OFF UI.
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:22 PM
Response to Original message
10. well, we should cut off the program --kids might go homeless
but we have to teach this guy a lesson. :D

(yes i know you hate this comment...) :rofl:
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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. One motherfucking guy. What part of one guy did you miss?
The fact that I did everything but bring out the fucking sock puppets and flash cards to illustrate the fact that this is a personal account of one guy makes me realize that next time I post, I'd better bring them along.
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OregonBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. So this was not to enlighten anyone, just to complain? Why bother at all.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. If its only ONE GUY then why are you wasting our time with your post?
Who the shit cares about one stinking guy? He could be a mental case for all we know. And you are expecting us to take your word that this ONE GUY even exists. What a stupid waste of bandwidth.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. +1
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
11. The last time I collected UI I was getting $604 a month.
If you think I was living large off of that you are nuts.
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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:23 PM
Response to Original message
13. Hardly "the other side of the coin." More like a scratch on the edge of the coin.
Yes, I know you acknowledge that this is "only one guy." And yes, I know you acknowledge that "all unemployed people aren't like that."

The point is that, by enormous margins, MOST unemployed people aren't like that. There will always be a relative handful of people who try to cheat any given system for their own benefit. That's called "an exception," not a valid counterpoint.

:eyes:

NGU.

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Amerigo Vespucci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. THIS guy...this ONE guy...the guy I posted about...IS "like that."
He's a fucking bum and a liar and he's gaming the system and I know him personally. That's what I said in the OP, that's what I'm saying now, and I have no idea how many more aare like him, but I suspect there are more.

Like my brother-in-law's friend, who sends his kids door-to-door on the Labor Day weekend to collect for "Jerry's Kids," then takes the money and buys weed.

But for the purposes of this post, I am sharing a first hand account of

one guy.

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ClassWarrior Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Yes. I acknowledged that when I posted, "Yes, I know you acknowledge that this is 'only one guy.'...
"...And yes, I know you acknowledge that 'all unemployed people aren't like that.'"

But despite all that, you extrapolate "one guy" to

"the other side of the coin."



Nice try, Francis.

NGU.

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
19. If anyone wants to take empathy out of it due to the other side of the coin,
look at it as a stimulus that benefits the economy. The unemployed can't afford to put it in a savings account. They live off it creating economic activity until they are employed again.
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TheKentuckian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:36 PM
Response to Original message
20. Is there some broader point here or what?
What perspective are you pointing to and what importance does it have.

Sounds like the typical right winger anecdotes to justify strip mining the safety net to me.

The two sides of a coin rhetoric also strongly suggests parity and that makes the whole deal dubious to me.
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affrayer Donating Member (261 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
21. Let Me See If I have This Right
I have an acquaintance...I won't call him a friend, because he's not


So because one person is a creep, we should decide the issue for millions of people.

Do you know that when Reagan ran on a Welfare Queen platform, only about 2% of those on welfare could be considered as such. Yet he managed to punish the other 98% with his broad brush cuts to that program. And now, in typical right wing tradition, you're doing the exact same thing.

So tell me this, shouldn't we punish all republicans for what Bush Jr did? Does this work for you?
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. +1. Exactly.
Flame bait.
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ipaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:51 PM
Response to Original message
24. You have no control over your acquaintance's unemployment check
or how they choose to personally deal with their unemployment. Hope the multi paragraph rant was helpful to you personally. Control issues are a bitch.

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shugah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
25. how old is he? where does he live?
what is his profession? how much would the job have paid? how much $ does he get from UE?

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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
26. This reminds me of the post-Katrina hate stories
my white ex co-workers (I got laid off a few months ago) used to whisper to me HOW MAD THEY GOT :eyes: when they heard one (black) guy supposedly got a $2000 credit card. Finally I said to one of them, "So, that guy is wrong to do that. But, why should we deny thousands of innocent people who really need help b/c of one or two dishonest people?"

Shut them right up, at least with me.

PS- I am looking for work.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
28. Wow, I could have heard this same rant from Limbaugh, Beck, Hannity,
Or any one of hundreds of other rabid right pundits and politicians.

All based on the anecdotal antics of one person.

How very sad, I expected better out of people who post on a place called DEMOCRATIC Underground.
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raouldukelives Donating Member (945 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. I know someone who gets to eat wholesome food
They get for free from the govt. Again, it's just this one person.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
32. All government programs have some cheaters. That's inevitable.
There are some things in place to prevent that or catch them and kick them out. But leave it to Republicans to say that should cause us to shut down the whole thing.

You're probably not willing, as witness, to turn the guy in? You might get somewhere.

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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
33. pretty disgusting post, imo. really bad timing, unless you have a certain agenda.
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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-08-11 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
35. I don't want this guy to have UI payments for him....
I want him to have UI payments for US!

He's gonna spend that money.. locally, probably.

Best way to stimulate the economy is to pump money in at the bottom, where it will circulate, and not get offshored or turned into a yacht.
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