Pregnant, nude and weeping rape victims hung upside down. Then shot in the head.

[Poll_Blind]

But it's a just a video game, right?

Released just a few days ago on June 10th. Available at all video game stores and chain stores like Target, as well.

(*GRAPHIC WARNING*)
"Not even I can save you now. Sorry, babe, it's better this way."

"She wasn't human anymore."

Q:What's happening to us? A: Looks like you're...fucked!

From Duke Nukem, and Girls in Gaming:

It's been reasoned that Duke's persona of 'impossibly well-liked asshole' is a knowing prod at musclehead protagonists of the 90s. But as far as I can recall, none of them were defined by just how excessively they could objectify women. This comes to a disturbing zenith on the alien mothership stage (Warning: Video is rather explicit). The area is littered with naked women being ensnared by phalic-looking tentacles and writhing in pain. Duke can't free them, but the player is free to shoot them to put them out of their misery, backed up with one of Duke's one-liners. And that's the joke. The joke is rape. Are you laughing yet?

Everybody loves a good rape joke, right?

:sarcasm:

PB

[closeupready]

1. That Dunn guy has been out-Dunn here, in terms of Jackassery.

nt

[Occulus]

237. This title is not a good representative of video games as a whole

Many, many people have been disappointed in how truly awful it actually is. For years and years, Duke Nukem Forever has been the butt of vaporware jokes; those jokes, jabs, and sarcastic quips have dogged the development of this thing since Year Four or so.

So now, after all this time, controversy, and last-minute changes, it comes out, and it's a steaming pile of everything bad about violence in video games, executed badly, with bad humor, and just bad badness. A pile. A heap.

The joke is complete, and it's the whole game itself.

[Aerows]

244. Well said

It's a steaming pile, and isn't in anyway a representation of all games. Look at Mass Effect and compare its artistic and narrative qualities to this hill of crap. It's like judging all movies to be a medium unworthy of existing by holding up "Meet the Spartans" or "The Hottie and the Nottie" as examples.

[BladesOfAiur]

328. I LOVE Mass Effect!

It's like a VERY well written sci-fi novel come to life.

[Ninjaneer]

2. Have been looking forward to this game for a while.

Yes, its just a video game.

[Liberal_in_LA]

4. You are kidding right?

[Cid_B]

6. Hey.. some of us have been waiting a while for the sequel...

A very patient fan of Duke Nukem highlighted his agony over the long-awaited (and most likely never coming at this point) release of Duke’s latest adventure by posting a photo of his 2001 Duke Nukem Forever pre-order receipt from Gamestop. The photo, which has been circulating the internet today, is a painful reminder of how Duke Nukem has held so much promise and released so much disappointment.

Once upon-a-time, Duke Nukem was the hit of gaming. Duke Nukem 3D, released in 1996, featured a fun and lengthy story, inventive settings, a smooth-talking, steroid-pumped man’s man for a main character and nude strippers. It was a huge success and catapulted its studio, 3D Realms, into the upper echelon of gaming. Shortly after Duke Nukem 3D‘s success, Duke Nukem Forever was announced and has been in development ever since. A torturous development cycle full of promises and failures, 3D Realm’s promises on Duke Nukem’s future have run hollow.

Poor gamer Slash000 pre-ordered Duke Nukem Forever for the PC on October 18, 2001 and still retains the receipt. Let’s hope that, someday, he is able to use that pre-order receipt. If not, though, 3D Realms has promised several Duke titles on the horizon and maybe GameStop will accept his pre-order for one of those.

http://terminalgamer.com/2010/01/04/fan-waits-9-years-for-his-duke-nukem-forever-pre-order/

[Ninjaneer]

10. Nope.

Like any other form of art, you are not required to like it. I have read worse in Stephen King novels, and have seen worse in movie theaters. It is what it is. No one is forcing you to play.

It really is just a video game.

[BanzaiBonnie]

46. And you are molding your neural networks

so, just as you are what you eat, you are also what you take into your brain. Just in case you didn't know.

[Duppers]

178. You're on it, BB

thanks.

[The Doctor.]

185. No, she's not. See #184.

The brain isn't nearly as stupid as people like to think.

Shit... that's a great quote!

[Occulus]

240. I'm this?

Variety is a good thing.

[themadstork]

313. Was that an attempt at sounding sciency?

You'd be better off ditching the science and sticking with the moralizing. You're making mincemeat of the principle of neuroplasticity.

[WinkyDink]

62. Sick, sick, sick. Why THIS game, pray tell?

[KittyWampus]

101. the subconscious mind does not make the distinction between "game" and "not-game"

It simply responds to the input and responds most strongly to the input which:

Is engaged in frequently
Is attached to emotions

[Cid_B]

141. I have literally killed millions of people in games....

(I'm looking at you Prototype)...

I have yet to even coming close to killing someone outside of a combat zone. Weird. Wonder how I managed that...

[marions ghost]

208. What does this stuff

do for you?

[EOTE]

217. It's fun. It allows one to put themself in a fantasy situation.

Just like one does when watching a movie, only a video game is interactive. Is it really that difficult to determine what attractions video games provide?

[Occulus]

243. It makes you think.

An excellent example of this is Portal 2. Almost completely nonviolent (except for the immobile turrets, whose threat is offset by a dose of "cute"), Portal and Portal 2 force you to think in terms of portals- dual holes in space that connect to each other; what goes through one hole comes out the other. The portal device is used to solve puzzles (known as "test chambers") which navigate the player through a logically-laid track of obstacles, such as removing turrets, putting a box onto a button to open a door, or even using portals in both high and low places to fling oneself across a gap to reach the exit.

Portal 2 is also one of the most hilarious games in years.

Here's a video of someone solving Test Chamber 20. Note how the big, red, hot-looking laser doesn't kill the player. It just bounces her back, which can be dangerous all by itself. Oh yes, the main character is named Chell; she's mute throughout ("Can you say your name?"........"okay, that's jumping, what you're doing there is jumping.".... "Say 'apple'. 'Apple'...").

I've been gaming since the Atari 2600 was new and I've played hundreds, if not thousands, of games in my time. Portal and Portal 2 are the closest things I've ever seen to perfect games, the first in particular because the portals were so novel and the gameplay was so new.

This is a really great pair of games; a demo of the first, called Portal: First Slice is available free on Steam. Making a Steam account if also free and if you're curious about games at all and have never really played them, it's a great place to get started. They have games there made by indie developers, too (and quite a lot of them), games you'd never, ever see on a store shelf, and priced very reasonably. They also have top-shelf titles and demos of those, too; you can really get a good idea of what's going on in the gaming industry just by browsing the titles.

It's the best way to game there is, IMO, and you already have a PC to run it on. It won't cost you a thing, so give it a shot.

[Cid_B]

265. Passes time and is something I enjoy...

What more do you need?

Lordy, It would be interesting to think of all the evil things I've done over the years in games. I always play the bad guy when I can...

Lets see...

I have played as a wrathful god who sacrificed women and children for more godly power... (Black and White)

I have destroyed a multitude of planets and likely the universe once or twice if I thought long enough...

I've also saved innumerable hostages, killed God knows how many terrorists and prevented nuclear disasters on many occasions. It's a real gamut...

[themadstork]

317. Forget even games, think of all the horrible evil things I've done in my imagination

The first failing of the moralist is the idea that play-acting despicable acts is the same as (and thus as reprehensible as) actually commiting these acts. In fact it's the first step toward a more complete understanding. This basic assumption is a mainstay of world lit, and probably all art.

Now excuse me while I blast a few alien toons into obivion.

[KittyWampus]

256. This still does not mean that your subconscious has distinguished between real and imaginary kills.

And the violence that habit brings might not necessarily manifest as you killing someone in real life.

But when someone habitually engages in violent play, that violence will manifest somehow or other.

[zappaman]

259. "when someone habitually engages in violent play, that violence will manifest somehow or other

you made that up.

[The Doctor.]

184. But it does make distinctions between 'Real' and 'Not real'.

Perhaps you are thinking of the involuntary reactions of the brain, not 'subconscious'.

The 'nucleus accumbens septi' plays a role in 'invigoration'. Similarly to many other brain functions, it forms a loop with the hippocampus/amydgala and the brain's motor function when presented with stimuli. It is responsible for the release of dopamine; a neuro-inhibitor mostly responsible for focus, but also associated with feelings of satisfaction. Sure, while playing a video game, the 'NAS/amygdalae-hippocampi/motor' loop is engaged and sending dopamine seeking signals from the NAS... so the 'physical problem solving' circuit is active... and loaded up with dopamine for focus. Here's what happens; the subject is presented with a real-time adverse stimulus, the hippocampus,amygdala, and to an extent the hypothalamus, loop to the NAS to coordinate a motor response. Upon resolution of the stimulus, GABA (gamma-aminobutyric acid, a big-time inhibitor) shuts down the function of the loop. Now there's a whole bunch of dopamine, and not a great deal to do with it as it is 're-uptaken'.

Ever get that 'sense of relief'?

"Ahhhhhhhh!"

That's the reward sensation one can get several times a minute from a video game.


Here's the problem with your assumption (oh, don't worry, not everyone is on to this yet); The initialization or 'actuation' of the whole loop originates in the limbic region, which is almost the opposite of 'subconscious'. The Thalamo-Cortical-Thalamic loop, in fact, is considered the keystone of consciousness. Just another layer away from the TCT loop is the interaction of the hypothalamus, amygdala, hippocampus, and a whole slew of other regions that are less and less directly tied into sensory input as you get 'farther' from the limbic system. It is in the limbic system, with the heavy input of the hippocampus, that the determination between 'real' and 'not real' is made. Obviously, it's not that simple as everything is 'real' to the system. But in this case, the hippocampus and amygdala very reliably 'inform' the hypothalamus that there is no threat. Therefore there is very little in the way of adrenalin and cortisol for the body and mind to deal with, and the 'wall' between 'fantasy' and 'reality' is kept thoroughly intact during LTP (long-term-potentiation) where more memory is formed of the event from which the hippocampi/amygdalae will be able to assist in distinguishing between 'real' and 'not real'.

In short; Your conscious faculties are very adept at determining the difference between the guy shooting at you on the TV and the guy pointing a gun at you in real life. They are equally good at informing the rest of your brain which of those sorts of situations you are in.

I could really go into detail with this, but I hope that explains it for now.

[chrisa]

305. Proven time and time again to be bunk.

The same argument was used in moral panics against violent movies.

[Duppers]

182. so many kinds of wrong!

It's violent porn, even if it's 'just a video game.'

[Le Taz Hot]

225. Art?????

A video game is now art????? Well, I guess if Britteny Spears is a Diva (complete with AutoTune BECAUSE SHE CAN'T FUCKING SING!) I suppose a video game can be "art." :eyes:

[Occulus]

248. A video game comprises several forms of art and is art unto itself.

Games do this in many of the same ways film does, but they do it in virtual space. A team of developers for any particular game will comprise several discrete kinds of knowledge, from writing computer code and building the code libraries and game engine that will run the final product, to modeling characters in 3D space and using photos and digital coloring and shading tools (such as in Photoshop) to create materials to put on those models. Others will create and calibrate lighting in the scene and still others might model and add props, landscape, and interiors. Still other people on the dev team will record sounds and process them, often working out of the same kinds of recording studios the music industry uses. Hired voice actors may read lines and produce sound effects themselves.

The construction of a modern video game is a really huge effort and the final result can be a beautiful thing to behold. I would suggest taking a look at Skyrim on YouTube if you want a sneak peek at what looks to be a really well-executed and visually beautiful game.

[JonLP24]

268. Exactly

You'll find things found in the creative process in movies in video games and more. You have a storyboard, plot, script, background for characters, etc. Then you have creating the world the player moves around in.

Plus most people have a narrow definition of art. Putting a basket of fruit on a table for decoration is art. It doesn't have to be good art, even Britney Spears songs are art.

[ZombieHorde]

295. People had the thoughts about photography. nt

[joshcryer]

194. It was pretty good, heavily linear, though.

Very much like the original as far as sophomoric stupidity.

[Odin2005]

239. It's FUCKING SICK SHIT! Thats what it is!

[Liberal_in_LA]

sick

[Cid_B]

3. I remember Duke Nukem.. played the hell out of it as a kid...

See how well adjusted I turned out?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

24. I played it a lot too. Even finished it WITHOUT any God Mode.

1) Fly off the stadium as far and high as possible before the platform rises
2) Lob rockets at the boss
3) PROFIT!

So, it's settled: video games have NO influence whatsoever in your mental health.

[sinkingfeeling]

5. Hey, according to the SCOTUS it's all free speech and no state could prevent selling it to 10 yr.

olds.

[Codeine]

9. Their parents should.

The state of California should not be in the business of defining appropriate media for my stepkids.

[Ninjaneer]

11. + 100 n/t

[tammywammy]

86. +1 n/t

[and-justice-for-all]

292. Thank you...+1000

[kenny blankenship]

28. Plus the state has a compelling interest : Those 10 yr olds will make good 18 yr old soldiers

No thresholds or barriers. Ready to see and do anything.

[NeedleCast]

52. Yeah, playing video games, eating chips and drinking soda

Are what make good soliders. Not, say, going for a jog...


FFS....

[kenny blankenship]

59. I know a young man in Afghanistan today who played a lot of Halo growing up

He's an officer in the Rangers now and was never overweight a day in his life. His 3 cousins have also played a lot of FPS games, yet none of them shows ill effects of "eating chips and drinking soda" which you seem to think are necessary adjuncts to playing Xbox. Two were star athletes and the third was physically stronger even than his two sports playing brothers. Though they've never displayed any metabolic disorder symptoms, some of them did flirt with the idea of joining the military, giving some people who cared about them a few scares over the years. The young Lt. in the Rangers has no economic reason to be there. He's no victim of an "economic draft." In fact his family is so loaded he'd never have to work a day in his life, if he really didn't want to work. Somehow though, he had to take up a job wearing a uniform and killing strangers. I know his jingoism has had a powerful influence on his 3 cousins, my nephews, as have the violent FPS games they all played together. I am so glad my nephews have resisted (so far) the call of "duty".

Based on what I've personally seen in the world (anectdotal testimony) I'd have to say your little rejoinder was pure crap. So FFS yourself.

There's a reason the US military sponsors and writes its own videogame: they need self-selected killers, "a few good men" who spent their adolescence training themselves to pull the trigger on human targets.

AmericasArmy

[WatsonT]

102. Prior to videogames war did not exist

we tried to have a few but without bloodthirsty killers raised on virtual violence we couldn't find anyone willing to inflict harm on another human being.

[JonLP24]

160. I'm glad you do

knock down some myths about video gamers. Personally I never eat chips while playing because my hands would get greasy and spread to the controller and I hate playing on a greasy controller.

I'm sorry the people you know joined. I had an urge to point out that the AA game is crap and had no factor in my decision to join to join the military and seriously doubt it impacts others' decision to join. Maybe if they were handing out copies of best sellers it would impact their decision. IIRC, they gave me that game (and a pen) after I enlisted.

[lostnfound]

116. Makes them more recruitabke which is why the Pentagon sinks a bunch of money into Halo

http://trueslant.com/allisonkilkenny/2009/10/23/military-propaganda-video-game-halo-3-dominates-market/

[Occulus]

251. What a horribly written review.

Obviously slanted against the entire medium.

Everyone, don't depend on this article for anything; it doesn't have anything useful to say.

[JonLP24]

267. I agree

The part about the setting and plot is ridiculous. You can say pretty much the same things about Star Wars. Plus the weapons they have, most people know they aren't real especially the energy weapons.

It doesn't have a lot of information about the Halo tournament except that it was co-sponsored. Was it organized by Microsoft and advertisers jumped in? I know the military advertises everywhere young people might be such as the All-American all-star high school basketball & football games are heavily recruited by the military. I'm sure the military also advertises mostly on channels and shows young people watch. Doesn't mean anything is wrong with the game, they're advertising in places young people are likely to be.

[WatsonT]

100. Look back on all the horrors humanity has committed throughout history

then say with a straight face that video-games are necessary or even significant in turning us against each other.

[kenny blankenship]

156. Brig. Gen. SLA Marshall's study on infantry after-action reports during WWII suggested only 15-20%

of infantrymen in a given action actually fired their weapons at an enemy.

You can dispute the methodology of the survey and its results, as many have, but you can't dispute that the Army received this report and processed the conclusion that many trained soldiers, even expert marksmen on the rifle range, were reluctant to fire at the enemy seen or unseen. Gen. Marshall's reports from WWII and Korea (co-authored with Col. David Hackworth) were condensed into a book called Men Against Fire. He published and lectured on his reports within the Army, which mulled over and disputed his reports internally for decades. The conclusion that the majority of American infantrymen were practicing pacifists on the battlefield held sway for a good twenty years, and generated concerns within the Army that its soldiers wouldn't fight in Vietnam. Needless to say, the General's concerns-and the Army's concerns- over the high apparent non-firing rate of infantrymen weren't motivated by an appreciation or approval for their supposed ethical/religious qualms over taking human life. He was calling attention to a problem, a problem of hesitation-to-kill, which once recognized, would in turn call forth a solution from within the military's ranks of thinkers and psychologists.

No matter how much slaughter armies have piled up throughout history, the US Army remains ever concerned that soldiers may not be sufficiently ready to shoot to kill. After all, where is the motivation to wade through enemy blood going to come from in wars where the enemy poses no threat to America and its people? It was easy in WWII for soldiers to understand the threat of the Axis powers to the United States. Hitler had basically proposed taking over all of Europe and fascism was writing democracy's obituary. The Japanese had attacked US strategic forces on US territory "without warning". The Germans were a repeat enemy, so activating old hatred of them was automatic. Whipping up racial hysteria against the very insular and very racist Japanese Empire was trivially easy. The Germans didn't look very different from the average American (since Germans were by that time the largest single ethnicity w/in the US population) but the Japanese did look very different. And US propagandists made the most of that difference, hyping it and demonizing Japanese so a GI would hate them enough to shoot on sight. The Germans helped the American propaganda effort by covering themselves and virtually everything they owned in Nazi swastikas. Encouraging the folks on the home front as well as the troops to hate the very sight of "Japs" was the focus of a great deal of official energy, in order to ensure that our soldiers would be effective in fighting them. If they could have written videogames in 1942, no doubt they would have - complete with Japanese caricatures and horrific story lines designed to instill a reflex-like readiness to shoot Japanese without hesitation.

The Army can hardly guarantee that all future conflicts that it will be asked to fight in will have any such ready-made or easily caricatured foes. That is why it uses tax dollars to make and distribute first person shooter videogames. Just as it does not want a force of conscripted civilians who haven't chosen to make killing their life's work, it doesn't want recruits who shy away from pulling the trigger and take time to overcome this inhibition. Turning kids into killers is more effective when they have already trained themselves for years to shoot enemy soldiers right in the face, pulling the trigger over and over, thousands of times, without a pause. It's also important to continually promote the US Army to FPS trained kids as the "brand" you choose, when you want to make a career out of pulling the trigger.

[joshcryer]

207. Thanks as always kenny blankenship for your military-analysis.

I know it's kinda weird to find it here, but it's always fascinating (read this earlier and meant to thank you).

[sudopod]

365. No one said they were necessary.

Just that they possibly made the process more efficient.

[The Doctor.]

187. Now that's a valid concern.

Not because they lose the ability to distinguish between fantasy and reality, but because games can certainly glorify violent engagement.

While still in juvenile development, subjects that are exposed primarily to the low-risk/high-reward model of video games might not have the chance to grasp the real-world differences between play and deadly combat.

I knew a guy who thought that joining the Marines, bravely facing enemies with his brothers-in-arms, and putting his life on the line was somehow 'romantic' (not his word, mine... and it fits). He did one tour in Iraq (circa '91) and came back saying, "They were shooting at us and people fucking died for real! Fuck that man! I'm done!".

That's pretty close to his exact words.

We may be raising an entire new generation of volunteers. But they sure the hell aren't ready to be soldiers.

[marions ghost]

211. +++++ right

there is a definite connection between these kinds of video games and war as we now know it.

I'm sure someone associated with the military could verify this.

[marions ghost]

210. It was not a unanimous opinion

it was mainly Scalia's persuasion. The dissenters could well be changing their minds in the future. This is an ongoing debate.

[Jester Messiah]

227. Either you're for free speech, or you're not.

The court decided correctly. It is the job of the parents to decide what their kids do or don't play.

[marions ghost]

329. they may reverse that decision

Selling this crap to 10-year olds IS the problem.

Jury's out really.

[Codeine]

7. Everyone hates that game anyway.

It's a steaming pantload, obvious misogyny aside.

[snooper2]

8. We should collect all copies out there and burn them in a big pile

right in front of...

Well, church won't work as there is no such thing as god. School, nah, doens't seem right. Burn them in front of the headquarters of the distributer? Yeah, that's the ticket.

Now, how do we go about starting this....

[haikugal]

23. Limit the age of purchasers...isn't that what the thread is about?

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

31. The game doesn't ENDORSE RAPE like the OP seems to imply.

It's mercy kills. Think people infected with facehuggers in the Alien movies.

If anything, the original was worse.

[Ninjaneer]

35. I can not believe how many people in this thread missed that. n/t

[snooper2]

42. my sarcasm is off today

lol

[Ninjaneer]

43. I learned the hard way

:sarcasm: identifier is a must on the interwebz :hi:

[WinkyDink]

63. Oh, MERCY kills AFTER the rapes. Yes, EVER so Florence Nightingale!

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

64. Which were committed by the BAD GUYS in the game. You're supposed to KILL them.

[WatsonT]

149. Apparently "kill people who rape women" is a horrible message to give to our kids

and terrible sexist against women.

[joshcryer]

206. Liberals are always on the evil aliens side. :(

[themadstork]

319. Yes, because rapes never happen.

And we should never represent them.

[whathehell]

349. There's a difference between representing them and "celebrating" them

but as a male who has grown up in this society

I doubt you'd know the difference.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

394. Celebrating? One more time: the rapes were THE HEINOUS ACTS COMMITTED BY THE VILLAINS OF THE STORY!

Why is it so hard to acknowledge that fact?

[felix_numinous]

12. If you're not a woman who has been raped....

I guess it's no big deal.


It's all fun and games right? I love games, I love art, I love freedom as much as anyone. But I draw the line at violent hunting humans gaming, that is just creepy as shit.

[Ninjaneer]

45. See post #18.

:eyes:

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojorabbit]

20. + a gazillion. nt

[Poll_Blind]

25. Even extreme depictions of misogyny are deemed acceptable in movies and video games.

If you ever get a chance to, check out the documentary "This Film Is Not Yet Rated". It is as shameful as it is embarassing to see so many not only willing to downplay it but (look downthread at responses #17 & #22) to call it cool.

While DU permits a great range of opinion, we should ask ourselves if that kind of commentary is something DU will host.

PB

[Ninjaneer]

44. See post #33 and #31.

Why are you outraged at this and not the countless novels that have a rape scene in it?

[whathehell]

310. Thank you...It seems women still make "politically correct" targets

to a lot of clueless and/or indifferent men on

our supposedly progressive website.:puke:

If you substituted ANY other group, e.g. Latinos,

Muslims, Blacks, Gays for "target practice" in games

like these, there would be an outcry loud enough

to shake the coutry....Unfortunately, though,

as feminist Susan Brownmiller said more than thirty years ago

"When it comes to the treatment of women, the liberal

consciousness is fiercely obdurate".

[Occulus]

311. Not a rape scene.

The scene in DN:F is the same basic scene used in "Aliens".

No, that isn't "rape" either; the first known human victim of an Alien birth is a man (in the original "Alien").

I'm not defending Duke Nukem, but man, your OP is some truly deceitful shit-stirring.

[patrice]

32. + 2 gazillion

[Ninjaneer]

33. False equivalency

The protagonist in the game isn't raping anyone and he isn't the one hanging pregnant women upside down. He doesn't have the option to free them. He is still the "good" guy in this scenario. That isn't the same as "deliberate hunting of African American males" or any of the other ridiculous things you mentioned.

[dsc]

34. actually there are such games

you can find them online. To my knowledge no state has tried to ban them.

[Poll_Blind]

37. But those games also aren't available for purchase at Target, are they?

That's an important point we shouldn't forget. There's difference between something which is brought into existence and sold or given away...somewhere...and something which is brought into existence and sold over an enormous, sometimes multinational distribution network.

PB

[dsc]

40. If there were enough of a market for such games

they would be sold somewhere. The problem here is that there is a market for these games. I would have been on the 2 side of this case (for Breyers dissent, not Thomas) but the fact is the reason these games exist is that there is a market for them.

[seabeyond]

72. but we know... there would be an outcry. while shooting naked women that are crying, rape, is

fine.

a market for that.

what else can we do to women and sell to men. girls, being stalked, then raped as they cry and beg.... oh ya. already have that out from japan. yum

[The Doctor.]

192. Context.

It's not pretty, but it's not what you choose to make it out as.

Yes, I know, anything that ever shows women as victims is evil. Hey, what about the games where men are tortured? Ever wonder why nobody gives a crap about those?

Because men are expendable nuisances while women are perfect angels, right?

I actually know the real answer, but anyone who can actually think on this point is ahead of the curve.

Yes, I'm challenging you... because I like you and you told me you were not a misandrist. I'm curious what you have to say here.

[seabeyond]

355. GTA because it is seeing how bad you can be, sims because materialistic and simulated

sex. let play fable but they have to walk the good path.

i really dont know any games that torture men but would not let them play and my kids arent into them, anyway. most games they ask for are kid appropriate. lots of building and strategy games, sport games and role play, but anywhere i dont like the feel or ugly, without integrity, offensive, they dont play. hubby doesnt play any of them either. so i really cannot give out much info.

the worse he got is the new LA noir, which is a good game, well developed and we were playing together, but i got tired of seeing naked, mutilated woman and a week later he did, too. put the game to the side.

some people dont like those games.

it isnt about the mutilating, killing, torture in playing these games for any of my people that play.

and btw... it is not only games for me. it is what the kids watch or even read though the have freedom in reading material because they are adult level, they still keep in the realm of responsible.

ugly, abusive, isms, trash isnt a gender issue. it just is not allowed.

[Ninjaneer]

48. What difference does that make?

Art is art, and protected under free speech, regardless of how accessible it is.

[Lorien]

14. Tell me again that misogyny isn't on the rise

this inhuman crap would have caused a good bit of outrage 20-30 years ago. Now people are defending it. :puke: If the victim were a child would you care?

[Cid_B]

27. Part 1 came out about 20 some odd years ago...

and was in exactly the same tone albeit with inferior graphics....

I'm sure some panties were twisted then too but somehow we all survived to live another day...

[Poll_Blind]

30. That's absolutely untrue- The original was NOT "exactly the same".

It still contained objectification of women but it was no-where near this level of violence toward women.

PB

[Cid_B]

38. So a little objectification is ok... but not too much?

Maybe you should make a color coded chart so we know what is an OK amount...

[Poll_Blind]

39. Pulling strawmen out of your ass like that must hurt plenty.

PB

[Cid_B]

55. So sorry to take your exact statement in context and use it in the conversation...

"It still contained objectification of women but it was no-where near this level of violence toward women"

As per you... There appears to be an acceptable amount (quantified in some unknown manner) but obviously DNF has gone beyond that predetermined number.

[seabeyond]

why is any? why dont they do this with men? why arent they humiliating and degrading men?

why is it only acceptable with women?

just entertainment. you can have a prison.... were you rape and degrade men, get your hard on and do all the fantasy play you want.

[Cid_B]

153. It is out there...

Not a video game but for media that makes me think of Oz...

Lots of man rape and degradation there if that interests you...

[joshcryer]

201. Uncharted has a self-depreciating male character, and the female characters are strong feminists.

Yes there is sexuality in them but it is extremely subdued and Drake (the male character) is always embarrassed in those situations.

[whatchamacallit]

341. Thank you joshcryer!

I work for Naughty Dog, the studio that makes Uncharted. Yes, our female characters are strong, intelligent, self-reliant women. Just like real women. :think: Thanks for the shout out!

BTW U3 is almost here and it gonna be BADASS!!!

[EOTE]

49. So you've played both to completion, I presume?

Otherwise, your comments surely lack any authority and you'd just be saying whatever you'd like to get your desired outcome. I've played both games to completion. And while DNF is certainly the spectacular failure that it has been described as, it's certainly no more misogynistic than Duke Nukem 3D.

[joshcryer]

196. So have I and I can attest to very similar misogynistic crap in both.

[joshcryer]

195. Bullshit. It had the same shit in it. Women being taken and impregnated by aliens.

You could blow 'em up, too.

Just because the graphics have improved doesn't change that it's the same basic game (though the new one is far more linear).

[Exultant Democracy]

57. Who are the victims you speak of? The pixes in the video game?

Crime rates and violence in the US have been on a dramatic decline over the last 20 years (during the same period in which video games have been getting more violent) so obviously you are not talking about real life victims.

BTW 20-30 years ago their was a god bit of outrage over a large range of free speech issues (Tipper Gore) from rap and movies to video games. Since that time over the last 20-30 years as the US has gotten more misogynistic: the pay equity act was passed, women make up a larger % college graduates then men and even more so with advanced degrees, we have had a credible female candidate for president and 3 out of the 4 last sec of state were female not to mention a speaker of the house. In my opinion all of those things would have been unbelievable 30 years ago.

[seabeyond]

75. Reducing rape with an eraser

http://www.whale.to/a/reisman5.html

[EOTE]

215. Ahhh, so you believe sexual assaults have only gone down because they're reported less.

Yep, that makes plenty of sense. We're not becoming a less violent society, we're just pretending it's not happening. I should be getting all my stats from www.whale.to .

[seabeyond]

70. that it is. i would say this is as ugly as it gets, but not. lets cut offf dicks in games

let the men bleed out. do all kinds of nasty.

wouldnt happen

[joshcryer]

202. Manhunt 2 shows a character castrating men with pliers. Yes, it happens.

[EOTE]

216. That's right. Men are never the victims of violence in video games.

The level of obtusity here can be hilarious.

[Occulus]

263. This basic scene was in "Aliens", that was 20-30 years ago, and I don't recall any outrage

Remember the scene in Aliens where the marines had just entered the nest, and found the cocooned colonial woman who was still alive and begged them to kill her? She popped a couple seconds later and they flamed her dying body and the newborn alien.

Same basic scene, and the film's considered a classic. I'll not laud Duke with that label- it's crap, actually, and a large number of gamers and Duke fans agree on that point- but the scene we're all arguing about actually happened, and happened first, quite a long time ago.

In the time frame you mentioned, actually.

[whathehell]

307. +100 n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. I seem to remember, back in the day, a spirited debate about whether or not

violent video games were capable of shaping young minds.

Does anyone else remember those days? It seems to me that conservatives, republicans, evangelists, and the like said "STOP THE MADNESS" in the context of marketing video games that were violent or of questionable content in much the same way Tipper Gore wanted to regulate music lyrics. During the video debate I remember, if my memory is correct, liberals, progressives, Democrats, and their supporters said "Meh, it's only a video game" and things like "hey the Beatles weren't the end of the world, neither will this be" about the music.

Does it now seem that sides have changed?

[Lorien]

16. The Beatles never sang about raping and murdering a pregnant woman for "fun". nt

[Ninjaneer]

18. Have you played the game?

Where in the game does one rape women, wait for them to become pregnant, tie them up, and then murder them?

[MilesColtrane]

50. Just the murdering part...

Well I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or I won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Well you know that I'm a wicked guy
And I was born with a jealous mind
And I can't spend my whole life
Trying just to make you toe the line

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

Let this be a sermon
I mean everything I've said
Baby, I'm determined
And I'd rather see you dead

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl

I'd rather see you dead, little girl
Than to be with another man
You better keep your head, little girl
Or you won't know where I am

You better run for your life if you can, little girl
Hide your head in the sand little girl
Catch you with another man
That's the end'a little girl
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na
Na, na, na

[jeff47]

66. And in this game, the player doesn't rape women either.

They were raped by the "evil" people, and are going to die a gruesome death. Much like the original "Alien" movie.

[Fumesucker]

77. Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer came down on her head..

Bang bang Maxwell's silver hammer
Made sure that she was dead..

[Warren Stupidity]

204. never mind that

[jberryhill]

158. Happiness is a warm gun, mama...

[Selatius]

170. But Johnny Cash sang about shooting a man in Reno just to watch him die.

The point is, violence has been in music and art and now games for quite some time, and it isn't gonna change any time soon.

[Brigid]

226. But the guy is in Folsom Prison . . .

As a consequence of his crime. And he feels remorse. Context is everything.

[zazen]

19. women's movement has always been more complex than two sides

particularly around pornography.

Contrary to lies spewed by the mainstream media, the anti-pornography legislation of the 80s was to provide a CIVIL, NOT CRIMINAL, remedy to people harmed in the making of pornography. Radical feminists came at it from a completely different angle than the right-wing. Feminists said, let people like Linda Marciano sue the asses off monsters like Chuck Trainor and the various business interests that made so much money off of her rapes.

I think the threat of taking away their money was a lot scarier than any threat they felt about the first amendment.

[Bold Lib]

21. Not to me, I'm stedfast consistant on the issue of the Bill of Rights.

Not just the ones I like but ALL of them.

Someone once said something to the affect of "popular speech needs no First amendment to protect it."

[MyrnaLoy]

17. Cool!

thanks for reminding, I've been wanting to play it for a while! Ya do know that during the zombie apocalypse some of the zombies will be women and children right?

[Ninjaneer]

22. LOL

:toast:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. I can't get over the fact that DNF was released.

Truly, it is the end times.

[Bold Lib]

29. Interesting timing on this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1371790

[Xithras]

36. DN Forever was a disappointment on many levels.

Like many people, I'd been waiting years for the game. I loved the old DN3D...it was crude and a bit misogynistic, but it was done in a very tongue-in-cheek way and was meant to be humorous and not offensive. Duke Nukem was meant to be a humorous cross between a Tom Selleck style 1980's hearthtrob who made women swoon, the dirty pervert at the adult store on the corner, and the most over the top badass alien butt-kicking action hero that Hollywood could come up with. It was fun and funny, and wasn't meant to be taken seriously.

I was going to buy the new one, but on a recommendation from a friend decided to Redbox it first. I'm glad I did. The graphics were terrible, the story was worse, the jokes were crude without being funny, and worst of all...it just wasn't fun. The whole tongue-in-cheek, middle-finger to the world, "screw you all, I'm having fun" mentality of the originals was completely absent. It was just mindless shooting and deadpan one liners, and wasn't even any good at doing those. The whole game felt like it had been written by people who had read about the old Duke Nukem series, but never actually played it. They just didn't get it.

For what it's worth, in the storyline, the women you shoot are already "dead". The plot concept was blatantly ripped from Aliens, and the women are hosts for alien spawn that are eating them from the inside out. You shoot them to put them out of their misery, and to prevent the aliens inside of them from completely developing. It's a gory storyline, but Signourney Weaver went there long before Duke Nukem did.

[bvar22]

123. My feelings exactly.

I played the old Duke, and liked the game.
Eagerly awaited DNF, but after reading the reviews,
I'm not so eager anymore.
Sounds like a real bomb.
I think I'll save my cash for the next GTA.

[whathehell]

179. Such a disappointment...When I see a game that castrates men for "fun" on the market

I'll take some of you apologists seriously.

[EOTE]

218. The apologists will be waiting for you to take them seriously any minute now.

http://www.rockstargames.com/manhunt2/

[joshcryer]

198. The original duke had pregnant females in big pods, too, who begged you to shoot them.

Yes it's taken directly from Aliens.

I thought the game was overly linear like most games these days (game designers know what sells, linear, simple games, that's life). The original Duke had many ways to accomplish a task to the point where you'd really get lost. I thought that the deadpan oneliners were very much DN3D-like, though. They were random in the original and random here. Just stupid really.

[whatchamacallit]

41. I'm in the industry and all I can say is

that's some fucked up shit.

[davepc]

293. As is George Broussard and his idea of game development.

[Emelina]

47. Sick

Sick!

[NeedleCast]

51. The Biggest Insult Here

Is how long it took to put out a crap game.

[whathehell]

180. No....the biggest insult is that we don't see "cut the dick off" games.

[joshcryer]

203. Manhunt 2 employs castration of the male penis with pliers. Among other things.

[whathehell]

279. Is it as popular as the women killing games?

[JonLP24]

287. It is a Rockstar game

which is one of the top developers in gaming history so it is a like a movie being released with an A-list actor or director. So it is more popular than most games. I'm not sure what to compare it to. Games where you can kill women, you can also kill men. Anyways, it is not as popular as Rockstar Red Dead Redemption or GTA.

[whathehell]

298. " Anyways, it is not as popular as Rockstar Red Dead Redemption or GTA."

No..Somehow, I didn't think it would be.:eyes:

GTA..Isn't that the one where they rape and kill hookers?

[JonLP24]

303. Well Manhunt series is A LOT more controversial

Especially more than Red Dead Redemption. Executions get more bloody as you progress through the game and they have over-the-top fatalities with very graphic violence. The violence in that game has been compared to snuff films. If you want to complain about violent video games, Manhunt is BY FAR your game. Before I continue I should point out to compare Manhunt to GTA would be like comparing The Fighter to Avatar in terms of box office success

To answer your question they had hookers in earlier versions, I don't think there is any that I know of in GTA IV(and I played that game from start to finish). In the earlier versions if you pick up a prostitute the car goes up and down to imply sex--not rape. It isn't a major part of the game at all and people didn't spend $60 for a game just to watch a car go up-and-down. You can kill hookers like you can kill anyone on that game. Like I said it isn't necessary, missions don't require it which you need to complete to finish the game. I always preferred the missions and exploring replicas of NYC, LA, San Francisco, Las Vegas, and Miami. The open-world game play featured in GTA changed gaming as we know it. (Though the Duke game featured in the OP choose to go the non-fun linear route).

[whathehell]

306. I liked the early one which featured

an Indian woman tied up to a pole along with a male figure supposed

to be General Custer....If you "won" the Custer figure fucked

the Indian woman. I'd say that would qualify as "rape", wouldn't you?

It was pulled off the market after a sustained outcry, but the sickening

thing is the fact that it was even put on the market.

I note that you say that "You can kill hookers like you can kill

anyone on that game"...Except that I would bet that all the

"killers" are male, even if the "victims" aren't all female.

Sorry...but IMO, aLL of this sucks in it's goal of making a buck

off offering kids sensationalized violence.

:puke:

[JonLP24]

309. WTH are you talking about?

"an Indian woman tied up to a pole along with a male figure supposed

to be General Custer....If you "won" the Custer figure fucked

the Indian woman. I'd say that would qualify as "rape", wouldn't you?"

What game is that?

As far as your last part a second player can play as a female character but you can't do any of the missions as those are one player.

[whathehell]

312. You're probably too young to remember, in which case Google is your friend.

[JonLP24]

318. I did a search of some words you typed

wasn't sure what to look for but is it Custer's Revenge? I'm not sure why the mention of that game is relevant? I see it is on the top 10 worst video games of all time and Mystique made a number of porno games and eventually went out of business. I wouldn't touch that game like I won't touch Birth of a Nation.

[joshcryer]

288. Women killing games are actually the exception, not the rule.

The vast majority of games employ the killing of male humans or gender questionable aliens. The overwhelming majority.

[zappaman]

290. what is a "woman killing game"?

when I go to the store, should I ask for an RPG game or a "woman killing game".
yet to see any ads for the "woman killing game" either.
weird....

[whathehell]

297. Umm....That which the original post speaks of?

[zappaman]

327. sorry

didn't realize "woman killing games" had it's own section at the store.
I will look for this genre next time I'm shopping.

[whathehell]

344. There's probably a lot

you don't know.

Did you know that "adult book stores" used

to feature "bondage" and "mutilation" sections, for

men who got off on that sort of pornography?

But that was before the internet.

I'm sure things have "evolved" since then.:eyes:

[zappaman]

356. "There's probably a lot"

You're probably just saying that not knowing if there are.
If there are, tell us the names and I'll check Best Buy for them.

[whathehell]

364. Umm...You need to reread the post...

and then perhaps you won't make the

same mistake your response shows

you made the first time.:eyes:

[zappaman]

367. so, your saying that these games are available on the internet

but not at stores?
like those magazines you mentioned?
again, what are the names of these games that highlight the killing of women?

[whathehell]

383. Uh..Sorry, bro....You still don't get it.

Please let me know when you

complete your remedial reading course.

[EOTE]

300. Yes, if not more so. Men killing games do very well.

In fact, I'd be surprised if Duke Nukem Forever ends up selling more than 1 or 2% of what the Call of Duty games have sold so far. And yes, the CoD games are men killing games, as are the great majority of all violent video games. People just don't get upset when it's the men who are getting killed.

[JonLP24]

53. That Duke Nukem game

has almost universal negative reviews. It is a bad game all around.

[Blue_Tires]

231. Yeah, I've stayed away after seeing even hardcore fanboys give bad reviews

and I was a huge fan of the then-outrageous original (and Shadow Warrior)

[Brigid]

54. This is a symptom of a society gone completely off the rails.

THIS is what is considered entertainment these days? It is cheap and tawdry, and the product of a sick and twisted mind.

I am reminded of a TV show that I was a fan of several years ago. But after a while I began to notice that the level of violence directed at the female protagonist. The final straw came when the writers decided that it would be wonderful "entertainment" to have her be kidnapped, drugged, and tortured. I have sometimes wondered what the actress, who really was pregnant at the time, felt at the time, felt about this storyline. It was actually rather mild compared to this video game, but I went absolutely ballistic. I wrote my best poison-pen letter ever to the network (I never heard back, of course) and have never watched that network again. But the most troubling was the response of those on the fan site I used to visit. A few were just as disgusted as I was, but most thought it was great. Just think, there is a fairly sizeable group for whom this sort of misogyny is entertainment. That is scary.

[Ninjaneer]

275. OHHNOooZZ!!! think of teh ChiLDREN!!!!11 D:

:eyes:

[Occulus]

314. And yet you don't mention the show or network's name so we can check for ourselves

Interesting.

I will continue to point out that Aliens did this exact scene in the 80s. No controversy I can recall.

No, it wasn't "rape" then, either.

[cali]

56. It's simply an updated penny dreadful

more offensive to be sure, but what can you do?

[BoWanZi]

58. Meh. Its just a video games designed for adults, not kids

If you can't suspend reality from fiction like the game, then you have much bigger problems than the violence in the game itself.

[seabeyond]

67. a game designed for males, not population as a whole. that might be a clue in. nt

[sabrina 1]

138. Yes, I'm sure this will be bought oeverwhelmingly by men.

Makes you wonder. 'It's just a game'. Anyone who has read some of the Iraq/Afghanistan War stories, knows this kind of abuse against women is very real.

Rape, murder and torture, of women and children. The glorious reality of our 'noble cause'.

Maybe it makes men feel better not to face actual reality by playing a game that lets them think of themselves as the good guys.

It takes a sick mind to spend so much time creating something with such an evil and depressing theme.

There is so much actual good in the world, but for some, there is an odd fascination with evil.

Seems like there has been little evolvement of the human race from primitive times.

[Ilsa]

60. Where's the video game where victims cut off their attackers' testicles?

There was a time, after I had been raped, when I might have enjoyed that. NOT.

[joshcryer]

205. Manhunt 2.

I'm sorry about your ordeal, and glad you're outspoken about it. For many males videogames are an outlet from daily life-stress. There are comical studies showing that men would prefer to play a videogame than have sex with their partner (not sure they were scientific, just a survey). I don't know if that's representative but I do know many women who enjoy videogames to get away from daily life stresses. Like any form of entertainment really.

[WinkyDink]

61. "They" hate us for our freedoms!

[Brigid]

65. Don't tell me that the type of media you consume has no influence on you.

I know it does. Here is a very simple example: When I saw "The Shining" for the first time years ago, I was jumpier than a cat for weeks afterward. I don't always react that way to a scary movie, but for some reason that one really got under my skin. It still gives me the creeps when I run across it on TV, which I have on one or two occasions. There seems to be a primitive part of the brain that reacts to something fictional the same way it would if it were real. Hasn't everyone cried at a sad movie, laughed at a comedy, smiled at a happy ending, or been inspired by seeing an act of heroism -- all fictional? I just don't see how a steady diet of violence, however fictional, can be healthy.

[Poll_Blind]

69. Thank you Brigid, you're absolutely right. Media we consume affects us just as organically as...

...the food that we eat. They both become part of us.

PB

[jeff47]

76. Sorry, but the science doesn't support your position.

Most studies found no correlation between video game violence and real-world violence.

There's a few studies with weak correlations.

There's also a few studies with a weak negative correlation (video game use reduced real-world violence). In those cases, the authors theorize that the violent video game acts as a way to "get it out of their system" as it were. As in blow up some pixels instead of hitting a real person. A modern equivalent to putting someone's picture on a dartboard.

Taken together, it looks like there just isn't a link between violent entertainment, such as video games, and criminal violence.

[seabeyond]

95. right. and companies spend millions on ads cause they dont influence.

and parents spend a lifetime teachng lessons cause there is no influence.

[Brigid]

103. You beat me to it.

What you take in through your senses influences you, fiction or not. Fiction is designed to evoke emotions. If not, then what's the point? A few more examples: There was a certain little movie that came out in the early '70's called "The Exorcist." I still have yet to see the whole thing, but there were many stories of people leaving the theater half out of their minds the terror, or even vomiting in the lobby. I have heard of similar reactions to "The Passion of the Christ." Then there was the time I saw "Saving Private Ryan." I still remember going into the restroom on my way out of the theater and seeing a woman in there crying her eyes out. I was feeling a little blue myself. Fiction works on the emotions, and that can't be done except through the brain.

[seabeyond]

111. "The Passion of the Christ." the outrage on du that people watched this ovie and subjected child

to it. the statements how it effected people

du at their most hypocritical, really, this is only "unpc" and being unpc is to be cool.

tell me, do we ever have threads on the influence of religion and the very people on this thread defending the game, pissed that religion is around to influence people?

[Art_from_Ark]

154. I remember when The Exorcist came out

It was either late 1973 or early 1974. I had just gotten a very good AM radio for Christmas and tuned in to the farthest AM radio station I could get-- which was KDKA in Pittsburgh, PA. There was a DJ named Jack Wheeler who had a call-in show and on one of his shows, callers were talking about watching The Exorcist and one was saying that some moviegoers had been vomiting in the lobby. I guess that's why it never appeared at my hometown theater.

[jeff47]

270. If you were correct, then the studies would back you up.

They don't back up your position.

[jeff47]

269. Influencing someone to buy something is not the same as influencing them to cause harm

You are welcome to provide better studies that back up your position. Until then, you're declaring the world is flat 'cause that's how it looks from where you're standing.

[seabeyond]

277. College Students Are Less Empathic Than Generations Past

http://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode.cfm?id=college-students-are-less-empathic-10-05-29

i never made a statement watching rape will make rape. watching or playing killing will result in a kill.

to suggestion that fed this stuff doesnt have an influence is .... naive.

[Doctor_J]

241. As evidence look at the hate radio addicts

Stupid, mean, ignorant sociopaths to a large extent - just like the "entertainers"

[jeff47]

68. Hyperbole much?

Or should we also burn all copies of the movies Alien and Aliens?

For those unfamiliar with the game, aliens were the ones doing the raping. The women will die a gruesome death once the alien embryo matures, much like the victims in Alien(s). The "hero" can either leave the women to this fate, or kill them to end their suffering. Hence, the "it's better this way" quote.

As for "She wasn't human anymore", it's because she's being consumed by the alien implanted inside her. It's the consumption that makes her not human, not the rape.

I'm not saying the game isn't misogynistic. It is wildly misogynistic. But exaggerating doesn't help get your point across.

[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jeff47]

80. Read that again. I'm not defending the game.

In fact it's a lousy game.

However, one doesn't need to "spin" it as the OP has to make the point that it's a misogynistic game. Making stuff up about the game, such as "Rape is the joke" weakens the argument. Saying the women are "pregnant" is an obvious attempt to make the game appear worse, because the reader is going to assume she's pregnant with a human baby, not going to have an alien kill her.

And now we spend time analyzing the falsehood instead of talking about the point of the argument.

[seabeyond]

81. all one has to do is go into one of the links to get disgusted and know it is at the least

that bad.

a sick sick fuckin mind.

[jeff47]

84. You're still missing my point

So I edited the post above in an attempt to make it more clear.

I don't care about the game. I care about the exaggerations in the linked articles and in the post here which are designed to elicit this response from you. Because they are stating things that while not technically lies, are said in a way to make the game appear worse than it is.

When Republicans do that, we're outraged. It's not ok here either.

[seabeyond]

85. you are missing the point. I DONT CARE. a look at the link should outrage every single person

that has a drop of decency.

[Poll_Blind]

89. Notice the lengths to which some people will go to try to diminutize what you saw with your own eyes

The bending over backward...The "No, this is OK because..." argument.

The "Cool! I can't wait to play this!" comments.

If the targets of the violence and "cutesy" one-liners were digitally-simulated puppies, or Jewish rabbis or a whole host of other figures, there would simply be fewer people willing to stand there making the argument that it's "Ok". But with women in our society, there is an element of acceptance of misogyny which runs so deep, you have people who don't even realize how despicable they'd sound to themselves in any other context.

PB

[seabeyond]

91. point. your whole post, right on. my BOYS get it. they are only 13 and 16.

not a tough one for them. tells something about where these men are in life.

[Bladian]

92. I think you need to calm down a little.

[seabeyond]

94. do you? i think you ought to be a little more angry. nt

[dana_b]

171. so true

:thumbsup:

[theHandpuppet]

155. +100!

And this is why I don't visit or post to DU nearly as much as I did in years past. After a while the undercurrent of misogyny and denial of same just became too much.

[Poll_Blind]

169. .

:(

PB

[Patiod]

+1

[Patiod]

236. +1

[jeff47]

271. Only 'cause you'd prefer to believe the exaggeration.

But hey, it's lying about something you agree with, so that makes it ok, right?

[seabeyond]

276. wrong. adn it should be clear in my post. only 'cause i watched the link and piece of shit game.nt

[Bladian]

330. Your arguments basically consist of

calling the creators sick fucks and claiming anyone who plays it has a sick fucking mind. Yep. Really persuasive.

[seabeyond]

331. ya. so? nt

[JVS]

336. Calling people sick fucks repeatedly works well enough for Susie in Curb your Enthusiasm

[seabeyond]

337. i guess it would be about the same as people hysterically ranting pearl clutcher, because

people think it takes a sick fuck to come up with hanging women upside down, naked to shoot them dead.

[whathehell]

348. Of course it's not...

to a sick fuck with a sick fucking mind:shrug:

[Whisp]

73. if that were a black person or a jewish person...

there would be hell to pay.

but women are the last in line, for drawing that line.

disgusting beyond fucking belief and if this is considered free speech by some, may you rot in a hell

[seabeyond]

78. sick fuckers.... nt

[Poll_Blind]

83. Bingo. And there are a number of posters in this thread who literally call the snips I show "Cool!"

Substitution is a great way to analyze something like this. Had the victims been, say, Jewish or African American or anything like that, it's difficult to imagine the same level of excitement would be expressed. Notice when it's women, though, it gets a pass?

It's really disgusting.

Even worse, if those had been puppies instead of women, it would have probably gotten fewer supporters.

PB

[seabeyond]

87. .

can i say

i love you.

sigh...

i was so mad and telling hubby about it. of course two sons had to know why i was mad. both boys really bothered that game producers resort to this. hubby too. cause it ruins game for hubby, and all three cant buy a game cause wont play

anyway

son says, what would happen if we did this to men. would they think it cool

i like that he could be bothered, even though it does not effect him, or his gender.

i am bothered that because it is not your gender being attacked, that it does not move the outrage scale.

thank you for your thread

[Poll_Blind]

110. No problem- it's as upsetting to me too. Many years ago, someone introduced me to...

...the concept of substitution in order to evaluate material like these video game snips I showed. The whole point of the exercise being, "If you are OK with (whatever) being done to (this group of people), then you should be OK with (whatever) being done to (that group of people)."

Any difference shows a bias.

Good on your son! Being able to be upset about these things, even though he is of a different gender, is the profile of empathy. Empathy is an extremely important commodity which is in perilously-short supply in the world.

PB

[WatsonT]

147. Have you ever played chess or checkers?

What if instead of little plastic figures it were mentally handicapped children you were killing? Not as fun now is it?

/point being you can take your substitution tactic to absurd extremes. "What if instead of nazis you're shooting puppies?"

[EOTE]

220. Do not attempt to bring logic or reason into this.

I'm quite sure that your chess analogy will get you accused of defending rape.

[WatsonT]

234. Well sometimes in chess you can get a bunch of pieces together

to take down the queen.

What is that but glorified gang-rape?

[EOTE]

301. That might be funny if it weren't so close to the truth.

Logical contortions are what these threads are best known for. Hell, I've already heard DNF being indirectly associated with the holocaust. It should be a rarity to see such a huge collection of incredibly obtuse people. Unfortunately, it's not.

[WatsonT]

106. I think the fact that he was mercy killing those people slipped your notice

had it been a black guy who was beyond rescue and who only had torture and death to look forward to then yes a mercy killing would have made sense and been perfectly acceptable.

But of course since the plotline revolved around using them to produce more aliens it wouldn't have made much sense to use males (I know this may shock you but men tend to lack the ability to get pregnant, curse you nature and your sexism!)

[Whisp]

165. I think you are trying too hard. very trying in fact

[WatsonT]

167. Huhwuh?

It's all right there in the article.

I don't consider basic literacy "trying too hard"

[WatsonT]

105. Have you actually read the article?

He isn't killing them *because* they are women.

/besides, since you want to be offended why not assume the women in the game were jews as well?

[Hippo_Tron]

107. I don't see the problem with it being a Jewish or an African American person

And I'm Jewish. As has been said up-thread, the player doesn't do this to them, they find the victim in such bad shape that the merciful thing to do is kill them.

The equivalent context would be that there's a video game where you're raiding a concentration camp and a Jewish victim has been tortured so much by the Nazis and they are so beyond saving, that the merciful thing to do is to put them out of their misery. Or, you're raiding a Klan outpost and it's a black person.

Frankly torture and mercy killing is depicted all of the time in movies. It also happens in real life. It's not exactly my cup of tea as far as video games are concerned, but I don't see how it's particularly outrageous to depict in a video game.

Now if you were under the impression that the player actually rapes and tortures a woman and were making an analogy to a game where a player rapes, tortures, or kills African Americans or Jews, I'd agree with you that such a game would be extremely distasteful. But in a free society, people are still entitled to consume media that I find distasteful.

[whathehell]

183. This "distinction" was pointed out over 30 years ago by feminist Susan Brownmiller

in a book called "Against Our Will".

[JonLP24]

186. It is considered

free speech as much as movies, shows, and books are and deserve to be treated as such.

Don't worry though. Even if people buy this game they'll get bored with it because it has awful review scores.

[joshcryer]

209. Type "racist games" into google, please, and you will find dozens upon dozens of hits.

Then you will find that said games, as yet, have not violated any obscenity laws, and therefore are protected free speech.

I highly doubt anyone here will defend the content of those games, however. I do realize that this game is being defended on other grounds (ie, the OP is misrepresenting the game, etc).

[WatsonT]

74. Meanwhile the literally billions of faceless males killed casually in every other game go unnoticed

Video-games are often violent. But you're deluded if you think that's directed against women in particular.

There are plenty where you are expected to shoot the guys and penalized for hitting women and children. What does that teach kids?

[seabeyond]

79. and in those videos women are being killed too. halo. it is the degrading for male entertainment

that goes over the line. tell me.... where are the males being humiliated. stripped and dicks cut off..... ect

[Bladian]

90. Bad example

All the women being killed in Halo are SOLDIERS. They all die in the line of duty.

[seabeyond]

93. so it is a perfect example. the poster was pointing out the men that get killed in games....

there are women that get killed in games too. such as halo. no one is in an outrage over that. the difference being is some sick fucks imagination on how degrading and humiliating and demeaning it can be for a woman.

my EXACT point.

[WatsonT]

98. My point was that video games don't preferentially kill women

clearly they don't.

And no one seems to care until it's women being killed.

Seems sexist, not so?

[Whisp]

104. men are the ones who murder

other men and women and children and in wars - that is the difference.

why this meme should be planted even further into the depths of the reptile brain I have no idea what worth that is.

[seabeyond]

112. do you see a thread with anger at women being killed in halo? or other game. ignore the degrading

humiliation, sick and perverted manner that women are outraged about.... so you can make your point

[WatsonT]

120. Do you see a thread with anger a men being killed in any game?

And what behavior is the protagonist in this game doing that is so horrible to women?

[JonLP24]

114. Wow

I had no idea Halo was controversial! I thought it was a game about super-human soldiers that is mostly used for its multi-player content.

[seabeyond]

115. it is not controversial. that is the point. women being killed, and no controversy

i was addressing the poster that chooses to ignore the issue of humiliation and degrading women as being the issue, not killing women.

[JonLP24]

118. Are you saying it should be controversial?

Sorry for not understanding your post. I get everything else but that part. I played the multi-player myself and you can't tell who is male or female because they characters are wearing gear. I admit I never did the single player campaign because that isn't where the fun is at.

[seabeyond]

126. the poster says the reason people are angry is women being killed. that is not the reason

he refuses to acknowledge it is the degrading, and sick and perverted manner that is the outrage. no, i do not think halo should be controversial.

[WatsonT]

122. So to counter my point

that men are killed in video games constantly with nary a peep you point out a video game where women are also killed, but there has been no outcry? (of course they are covered head to toe so it's not exactly obvious).

And that proves that people are equally outraged when men are killed in video games?

You may wish to rethink your argument.

[seabeyond]

128. again, you brazenly ignore the degradation of women in a sick and perverted manner. nt

[WatsonT]

131. Elaborate

what is the big-bad male protagonist doing to the poor helpless women that constitutes degradation of that entire gender in a sick/perverted manner?

Feel free to be specific.

[seabeyond]

136. if you cannot see the sick and perverted who created the game, nothing i say will help you. nt

[WatsonT]

140. Indeed, you can't come up with specifics because you are ignorant of what is going on in this

that isn't an insult, it's a statement of fact. You are literally unaware of the plot.

You seem to believe the protagonist (the 'good guy') is doing these horrible things to women.

In reality it is the entirely evil antagonists he is fighting against (and whom we're to feel no sympathy for).

So the story goes something like: evil people rape and torture women. Good people try to help them.

And you are horrified by that narrative.

Perhaps it's the overt recognition that women can be subject to harm? Perhaps we should go back to the video games of old where women never get hurt?

[WatsonT]

121. Everything is controversial when the audience wishes to be offended

[WatsonT]

97. Lot of women in war world II themed games eh?

Point is if you're to tally up the death toll in these video games between the genders men are going to represent the vast majority of those killed/dismembered.

[MellowDem]

82. In most video games...

men were slaughtered almost exclusively. Really, the fact that some violent video games are now including women (and sometimes children) in them should be a sign of increasing equality.

And yes, there are video games where men's genitals have bad things done to them, sometimes by the player themselves.

Duke Nukem, if you know the history of the game, was a groundbreaking game in many ways, especially for its high level of violence and "un-PCness". I'd say that this new game is mostly a homage, and very tounge in cheek as well. It is meant to be over the top, that is the whole persona of the game.

Aliens raping women doesn't seem all that crazy to me. Reality is worst in many ways. Not to mention countless songs, movies, books, etc. etc.

The game is tacky IMHO, but it is intentionally trying to be in some ways, if you know the history of its long awaited release.

It's the puritan, uber-PC (always based on their own idea of what's offensive) scaremongerers that scare me, not the video game.

As for rape jokes, or any other sort of joke, since when has any subject ever been off-limits to comedy? Doesn't mean people will find it funny, but in a certain context, some might. Humor is a way of dealing with horrible things.

[Drale]

96. Duke Nukem has always been that game

that took things to the extreme and this one is no different. They try to make people go WTF because its great free marketing.

[seabeyond]

109. do you want to talk about the white comedian that got it for lynching, dude recently that "joked"

about gays.

you are entertained with rape and murdering naked women hung upside down and see it merely as "unpc", but are outraged at those that may be bothered.

class

[MellowDem]

163. Lots of assumptions there...

I am not entertained by rape or murdering. But if that's you're test, then I guess all those Lifetime viewers are ;-)

I even said I think it is a tacky game. I didn't buy this game because it looks rather stupid and boring. But that's just my personal opinion.

I don't even think it is "unpc" in my opinion, just tacky. There have been countless movies/books/stories where the hero kills infected victims who are doomed anyways. Not exactly controversial, certainly no more controversial than actual discussions on legalized assisted mercy killings. The wisecracks of Duke Nukem are the identity of the game. Duke Nukem's whole persona is to be as over the top, uber-manly, and insensitive as possible. He is a caricature.

But I think you miss a more obvious point. The game is not meant to be taken seriously. At all.

I don't understand the controversy that many DUers find with video games but say nothing about all sorts of other forms of media.

Many people would be disturbed if a woman breast fed her father in a video game, but if it's in a novel it's genius.

While video games are mostly about entertainment, some of them also add quite a bit of nuance and moral dillemas and social commentary. I would say Duke Nukem is known for being the exact opposite. Kind of like when you go into the movie Predators 2, you aren't expecting a masterpiece. Or when you go into a comedy with an R rating, nasty sex jokes are expected.

[MellowDem]

164. Dupe

[chrisa]

88. Misogyny and Duke Nukem go hand in hand.

And yes, I'm defending this game, because I believe in free speech. It is also your right not to buy the game if you don't like it.

[ohheckyeah]

99. It's also our right to say it's a sick

fucking game in our opinion. I don't advocate making the game illegal but I have no problem in saying that it's sick and twisted and I seriously have to wonder about anyone who enjoys playing this kind of game.

[chrisa]

108. Agreed

Except for wondering about who enjoys the game. Believe it or not, this game has its own following of people that are normal.

At the end of the day, it really is just a game. It has nothing to do with reality.

[seabeyond]

117. sick fucks.... that is how i see it. kinda like the men that enjoyed the rape of girls

listening to them beg and cry. stalking them. raping them. murdering them.

just a game

sick fucks.

[chrisa]

125. seabeyond, usually I agree with you, but not this time

This is like saying people who watch action movies want to kill people. Video games are just another entertainment medium.

To equate this to sociopathic behavior in real life just doesn't make any sense.

[themadstork]

321. Your moral indignancy is wasted here.

Although if your aim is to feel superior to others, then maybe not. But calling consumers of trash entertainment "sick fucks" is. . . well, kinda sick!

[whathehell]

350. Check the thread: Her moral indignancy is shared by many others here, including me

It's your moral indifference that's a waste.

[seabeyond]

354. i described/showed to three men, two teenage boys. they all thought it sick shit

three wouldnt play, two dont play games, all agree it was perverted.

i dont feel i am too far out there.

[whathehell]

363. Good.

and you're certainly not "too far out there".

[ohheckyeah]

173. I guess it depends on what your definition

of normal is.

[seabeyond]

113. gonna defend a game stringing up blacks, tying gays onto barb wired fences? nt

[Bladian]

119. Honestly, why are you SO venomous about this topic?

[Poll_Blind]

124. Maybe not everybody's as cool with the topic of simulated rape and murder as you are?

:shrug:

PB

[JonLP24]

148. There is so much wrong with this game

that you can trash it honestly. Here is a great review of the game that absolutely trashes it honestly--http://arstechnica.com/gaming/reviews/2011/06/duke-nukem-forever-review-barely-playable-unfunny-and-rampantly-offensive.ars

Now it has been pointed out repeated that the character isn't raping anyone. That she is bearing alien children and the character can either do a mercy kill or let the woman die on her own due to the aliens growing inside of her. Pretty much the only games I'm aware of that simulates rape are Japanese games that aren't mainstream.

OK, there are games that allow you to simulate murder like movies simulate murder. However Duke (In what is a terribly offensive game) is fighting aliens which isn't murder.

[chrisa]

166. Agreed. That level was absolutely terrible.

Was that supposed to be entertaining?

I mean, I stand by my statements on this thread, but that had to be one of the stupidest concepts in a game I've ever seen. Literally torture to watch, so it would probably be even worse to play.

Gearbox should be embarrassed for making such a terrible, unfun game.

[seabeyond]

129. honestly? raping women and hanging them upsidedown, naked (at the most vulnerable)

and shooting them, as they cry?

honestly?

why am i bothered?

truly, it is beyond your scope why a woman may be offended? obviously you are the market this game maker is looking for.

[WatsonT]

135. Ok, you didn't read the article

You imply that it's the same guy raping/hanging them upside as it is putting them out of their misery.

The bad guys did the first part, the good guy did the second.

So the message is: evil people rape and torture women.

Good people try to help them (in this case a mercy killing as he states that he cannot save them and they are suffering horribly).

Yeah, can't have kids get the impression that it's bad to rape women and good to try to help them. :eyes:

[chrisa]

130. The whole point of Duke Nukem is shock and offense

The plot of Duke Nukem is: Aliens have come to earth and stole Duke Nukem's beer and women. Do all that you can to get both back.

Honestly, how could anyone take something like that seriously? It's supposed to be offensive humor that makes you cringe. The character of Duke Nukem is a parody of macho action heroes. He's way too over the top (and so is the game itself) to be taken seriously.

[WatsonT]

132. If the good guy in that game is doing it to those people

for being black/gay? Obviously not.

However that is not the case here.

[seabeyond]

139. if creators made a game about that subject, there would be an outcry. it wouldnt be

oh, but the hero.... he is doing good killing them off.

it would be what sick, bigoted fuck made this fuckin game, and what bigot wants to play it.

[WatsonT]

142. If there were a game

where the bad guys were going around killing blacks/gays and your job was to stop them I really don't think there'd be an outcry.

And you are aware of the concept of "mercy killing" right?

[seabeyond]

143. if they put out a gmae where KKK was lynching black men, hero kill 'em hanging, no outcry?

bullshit.

[WatsonT]

145. Not an accurate analogy

in this game A) this isn't the entire focus of the narrative and B) the women are beyond help and have two options: die now or suffer badly for a long period of time.

Create some equivalent scenario where some small portion of a game is killing off people whom you cannot help and would otherwise just be tortured by the bad guys and yeah I don't see any issue with it.

You seem awfully intent on this. I wonder why.

[seabeyond]

150. I wonder why. ... i dont find rape, hanging women naked, upside down, listening to them cry

and shooting them as entertainment.

[WatsonT]

152. Indeed, what do you consider entertainment?

You are apparently ok with men being torn to shreds in violent war games as you've said nothing on that subject.

Is it only wrong to portray women as fragile victims, but acceptable to display men as such?

Or should all video games depicting realistic violence be banned?

Movies as well I assume?

Can you think of any movies where a woman is raped? I'm guessing yes you can. Shall we ban all of those?

[joshcryer]

214. Now, since we established that this game is being misrepresented, how would you feel about Raplay?

A game where you stalk girls and then quite literally rape them, in fairly realistic 3D.

Free speech or obscenity?

[WatsonT]

233. Never heard of it

and I'd say both. Free speech because I am kind of an absolutist on that, but also obscene.

They should be free to sell it and everyone else should be free to boycott it.

/and for that I'd support a parental warning since the entire point of the game is nothing but rape apparently (again, never heard of it before, just going off what you said).

[joshcryer]

289. Here's the wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapelay

Sorry I mispelled it.

[joshcryer]

213. I agree. If there was a game pitting Native Americans against colonists, I doubt anyone would care.

Sounds like a fucking awesome game, actually.

[EOTE]

222. You've never played "Custer's Revenge"?

One of the nadirs of the 8-bit era. Yet, "all computer games since its release have been but a loose variation on its plot and main themes".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Custer%27s_Revenge

[WatsonT]

235. Could be fun

in those types of games I usually play as the historical losers since I figure that would be more of a challenge.

Although if it's to be realistic the native forces would have to see constant degradation of their forces through disease whether they fight or not, which wouldn't be as fun.

[Liquorice]

157. It would never be allowed. Misogyny is the most accepted prejudice in the world. nt

[joshcryer]

212. You may wish to google "Ethnic Cleansing: The Game"

Enjoy the outrage.

None of these games to my knowledge have violated obscenity laws.

[Liquorice]

260. That game wasn't available for sale at your local Target. In fact, nobody distributed

it. No store would have EVER carried that sick game, and if they would have, there would have been outrage so overwhelming it would have been taken off shelves within days. To compare that to this mass-marketed game found at any major retailer is ridiculous.

[malmapus]

127. Yes, a rather pathetic video game. Look at what G4 thinks of it.

Some people may like the crap, it's not my kind of game.

G4 Duke Nukem Forever Video Review

[seabeyond]

134. thank you. creepy hateful view of women. and posters ask women, why?

why are you bothered with the game.

appreciate this. hubby has heard the same about the game. says, no one is buying.

[Poll_Blind]

144. Sounds like Adam Sessler. I'm not surprised he made a special point to call them out...

...on the misogyny. He also called out Infinity Ward for a homophobic spot they produced.

PB

[zappaman]

133. oh my goodness!

Oh my! I was just telling me grandson the other day about this man named Elvis Presley who played colored music!
I saw him on Ed Sullivan and...oh my goodness...he was gyrating like some sort of pervert!!!
While clutching my pearls and felt myself getting the vapors!
Mark my words, this Presley fella will bring about the end of civilization!
Disgusting!

[Poll_Blind]

146. Didja watch the clips I link to? You gonna compare that to Elvis Presley playing "colored" music?

Oh my! I was just telling me grandson the other day about this man named Elvis Presley who played colored music!
I saw him on Ed Sullivan and...oh my goodness...he was gyrating like some sort of pervert!!!
While clutching my pearls and felt myself getting the vapors!
Mark my words, this Presley fella will bring about the end of civilization!
Disgusting!

:shrug:

PB

[zappaman]

151. sure

it's the same level of outrage by the pearl-clutchers.
elvis and his moves were awful and degrading and making people do crazy things!
same old tune...different lyrics.

[ohheckyeah]

175. Aren't you just so clever to use the

pearl clutchers meme?

Elvis gyrating is not nor has it ever been comparable to rape and murder.

[zappaman]

191. Didn't say it was

the outrages are what are exactly the same.

[sudopod]

360. No one should ever have a negative opinion about anything ever.

For example, if I said that your unusual affection for farm animals is uncivilized, I would certainly be in the wrong. One time, when I was in New Zealand, I encountered a local gentleman engaged in the very same act, and we had a long discussion about the pros and cons said behaivor. I came away with a much better understanding of human nature and how we all have different tastes. Also, I was surprised at how the natural oils in the wool act as nature's own skin moisturizer. That man had the softest hands of any farmer I've ever known.

[Jester Messiah]

229. Spot-on usage, as I see it.

"Won't someone think of the children!?" The same old mantra used for ages to shut down provocative works.

[JVS]

219. If you thought his dancing is the downfall of society, you should see the fool's gold loaf....

sandwiches he ate and the black velvet paintings he adorns.

[Brigid]

286. Elvis Presley's gyrations didn't encourage or celebrate violence.

Not much relevance here in this debate over violent video games.

[boppers]

137. Hey, what do you expect from people who read the bible?

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

[Azathoth]

159. Oh here we go again...wild-eyed hysteria over 30 seconds from a 10-hour video game

And a decidedly mediocre game at that.

After decades of blonde bimbo jokes, Japanese tentacle porn, and 80's action star parodies, these fits of moral indignation ring a little hollow. Lord Macaulay certainly had it right :eyes:

[ohheckyeah]

176. Nobody is wild eyed or

hysteric.....:eyes:

[LetTimmySmoke]

161. The game isn't my thing. But let's not start another moral panic on video games.

[ohheckyeah]

177. Nobody is in a moral panic.

People are expressing their opinions and feelings about the 'game' and the derision is uncalled for.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

253. No, they ARE in a moral panic. Also, they are clutching pearls, wringing hands, throwing hissy fits

and shouting "GET OFF MY LAWN!!!"

[Hugabear]

387. "throwing hissy fits" - really?

Somehow, referring to someone protesting the depictions of rape, sexual torture, violence, murder, and humiliation directed at women as having a "hissy fit" seems to prove the points they're raising.

[jeff47]

272. Clearly, you are not reading many of the posts in this thread. (nt)

[woo me with science]

304. Au contraire. nt

[lunasun]

162. sick shit the stupids will buy thier inappropriate age children no doubt to keep em'busy'

[Mimosa]

168. Sometimes it seems males are afflicted with violent sick imaginations

This stuff is toxic, yet they approve of it as 'just games'.

[joshcryer]

199. This is a homage to "Aliens." The original Duke 3D had the same thing.

You could find impregnated women in pods who begged you to kill them.

[Occulus]

315. "Please...... kill me.... kill.... me..."

Colonial settler, Aliens

[southerncrone]

172. Sadly, parents will buy this for their impressionable young boys

w/o doing any research on what is involved because the kids will WANT it & the majority of parents don't understand (or care) about the video game rating system. Just make sure little Jeremy is happy & off my back.........
These impressionable young boys will be "brainwashed" that this is an acceptable way to treat women. Not hard to figure what this will lead to in the future.

This is simply disgusting, not to mention very unacceptable in a civilized nation. We are truly a 3rd world nation.....sometimes by our choices. :puke:

[pacalo]

174. Horrible to the nth degree.

[Lucian]

181. So, you can't tell the difference between a video game and real life?

Duke Nukem sucks to the Nth degree. It's a video game. And a horrible one at that. The ratings are really poor. No one I know bought it.

I know it's fake.

[ImNotTed]

188. I'm with you, PB

Recced, as opposed to people who would actually play this garbage, who are wrecked!

[JVS]

189. The appeal of Duke Nukem is limited. I'm not a fan, but there's a cult following out there...

not unlike Star Trek. I suppose this sequence is the kind of thing that makes the Duke Nukem persona who he is.

[JoeyT]

190. It's a shitty game that's trying to use outrage as a selling point.

Outrage is the cheapest form of advertisement. GTA and Postal would never have become as popular as they ended up being without it.
I actually don't understand why there aren't any new games where you can castrate opponents with a well aimed shot. You could do it in the old Fallout games, and it was pretty hilarious. Well, the descriptions were, the graphics weren't really up to showing much back then.

Anyone that thinks guys wouldn't play a game that let you castrate opponents is kidding themselves. Within an hour of release there would be trick nutshots posted to Youtube of guys jumping off buildings and doing flips as they fired on another guy's crotch. The more graphic and realistic the damage the more fun they'd have doing it.

That's not to say the game is ok. I'm just saying they're hoping to use the outrage to their advantage.

[woo me with science]

193. Here is my problem:

Show me the person who should be trusted with the power to decide for me which video games I am not fit to evaluate and form a judgment about on my own.

I haven't met that person yet.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

[joshcryer]

200. Obscenity laws exist and I while I've yet to find a game that breaks them, I am sure...

...that you could make one that would.

Not saying I disagree with you, just trying to make sure you know that free speech is not irrevocable.

[woo me with science]

223. Of course you are right that they do,

but, like you, I have not yet seen one yet that I think fits that description.

In our country, at this time, I would be far less disturbed by the existence of an obscene video game than I am by the prospect of handing more power over to an authority figure to decide for me what video games I may see and evaluate on my own.

[Name removed]

197. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deutsey]

221. I must be approaching the "Get offa my lawn you dang kids" age because

I can't understand why anyone, male/female, adult/child, would want to play something like that.

:shrug:

[Jester Messiah]

230. Not many do, the game is widely considered to suck. [nt]

[Warren Stupidity]

224. Rape celebrated and glorified! Pictures and links!

More like this here: http://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GPCK_enUS413US413&q=rape+of+the+sabine+women&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wi&biw=1079&bih=665

[BrendaBrick]

340. Interesting.....

I clicked on the link and saw all of the pics. I never heard of this...the "rape" (aka etymology - *abduction*) of the Sabine women.

I looked it up on wiki and found this: (in part)

Story

Pietro da Cortona, 1627-29 The Rape is supposed to have occurred in the early history of Rome, shortly after its founding by Romulus and his mostly male followers. Seeking wives in order to found families, the Romans negotiated unsuccessfully with the Sabines, who populated the area. Fearing the emergence of a rival society, the Sabines refused to allow their women to marry the Romans. Consequently, the Romans planned to abduct Sabine women. Romulus devised a festival of Neptune Equester and proclaimed the festival among Rome's neighbours. According to Livy, many people from Rome's neighbours attended, including folk from the Caeninenses, Crustumini, and Antemnates, and many of the Sabines. At the festival Romulus gave a signal, at which the Romans grabbed the Sabine women and fought off the Sabine men. The indignant abductees were soon implored by Romulus to accept Roman husbands.

Livy is clear that no sexual assault took place. On the contrary, Romulus offered them free choice and promised civic and property rights to women. According to Livy, Romulus spoke to them each in person, "and pointed out to them that it was all owing to the pride of their parents in denying the right of intermarriage to their neighbours. They would live in honourable wedlock, and share all their property and civil rights, and--dearest of all to human nature--would be the mothers of free men."<1>

War with the Sabines and Other TribesOutraged at the occurrence, the king of the Caeninenses entered upon Roman territory with his army. Romulus and the Romans met the Caeninenses in battle, killed their king, and routed their army. Romulus later attacked Caenina and took it upon the first assault. Returning to Rome, Romulus dedicated a temple to Jupiter Feretrius (according to Livy, the first temple dedicated in Rome) and offered the spoils of the enemy king as spolia opima. According to the Fasti Triumphales, Romulus celebrated a triumph over the Caeninenses on 1 March 752 BC <2>.

At the same time, the army of the Antemnates invaded Roman territory. The Romans retaliated, and the Antemnates were defeated in battle and their town conquered. According to the Fasti Triumphales, Romulus celebrated a second triumph in 752 BC over the Antemnates.

The Crustumini also started a war, but their town too was captured by the Romans.

Roman colonists subsequently were sent to Antemnae and Crustumerium by Romulus, and many citizens of those towns also migrated to Rome (particularly the families of the captured women).

The Sabines also went to war with the Romans, led by their king, Titus Tatius. When Tatius attacked Rome, he almost succeeded in capturing the city because of the treason of Tarpeia, daughter of Spurius Tarpeius, governor of the citadel on the Capitoline Hill. She opened the city gates for the Sabines in return for "what they bore on their arms;" she believed that she would receive their golden bracelets. Instead, the Sabines crushed her to death with their shields, and she was thrown from the rock, which since has borne her name, the Tarpeian Rock.

The Roman forces attacked the Sabines, who were now in possession of the citadel. The Roman advance was led by Hostus Hostilius, and the Sabine front by Mettus Curtius. When Hostus fell, the Roman line gave way, and they retreated to the gate of the Palatium. There Romulus gathered his men and, promising to build a temple to Jupiter Stator on that site, led the Romans back into battle.

The battle continued. Mettus Curtius was unhorsed and fled the battle, and the Romans gained the upper hand.

At that point the women intervened in the battle to reconcile the warring parties:

went boldly into the midst of the flying missiles with disheveled hair and rent garments. Running across the space between the two armies they tried to stop any further fighting and calm the excited passions by appealing to their fathers in the one army and their husbands in the other not to bring upon themselves a curse by staining their hands with the blood of a father-in-law or a son-in-law, nor upon their posterity the taint of parricide. "If," they cried, "you are weary of these ties of kindred, these marriage-bonds, then turn your anger upon us; it is we who are the cause of the war, it is we who have wounded and slain our husbands and fathers. Better for us to perish rather than live without one or the other of you, as widows or as orphans."<1>

Following the reconciliation, the Sabines agreed to form one nation with the Romans and the Sabine king, Titus Tatius, jointly ruled Rome with Romulus until Tatius's death five years later.

The new Sabine residents of Rome lived on the Capitoline Hill.<3>

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rape_of_the_Sabine_Women

[Travelman]

228. The makers of that game have every right

under the First Amendment to make that game.

And the state of California has every right under the Tenth Amendment to regulate who may purchase that game.



The Supreme Court really blew it with this ruling.

[onenote]

232. would you say the same thing if it was a state law regulating who can purchase a comic book?

The history of state attempts to regulate access to expressive content to minors because it is deemed too violent has a long history. Would you have supported the efforts in the 1950s to ban "horror" comics?

[Travelman]

247. Sure.

States restrict minors' access to all sorts of things. The states have the right to do that. Minors don't get the same rights as emancipated adults. This is not some sort of new concept. Minors can't buy Playboys, for example. Or hardcore porn. Or cigarettes. Or guns. Or alcohol. In fact, in most states, minors may not enter into a binding contract of any sort, so they can't even legally buy a car on their own when they're 16.

I have no problem with that at all if it's at the state level. The feds can't tell people that they can't make that game and sell it, but the states certainly do have the right to regulate that sale.

[onenote]

255. cigarettes,guns, and alcohol don't have first amendment protection

And there is a long history of the First Amendment being construed to accord only limited protection to speech with sexual content and of treating minors access to sexual content differently from the access allowed adults. There is, however, no similar history with respect to speech with violent imagery, which has, like it or not, been part of children's literature for ages.

So you may want the Constitutional protection accorded violent imagery to be restrained, the fact is that historically it hasn't been subject to the same standard as sexual speech. Personally, I'd like to see this distinction eroded, not by regulating more speech, but by regulating less.

[zappaman]

257. +1

the most outraged are likely parents who want the government to babysit for them instead of raising a child by themselves.

[woo me with science]

352. Great post. I agree. nt

[Odin2005]

238. OMFG, that is fucking evil.

:grr:

[Occulus]

316. Ever see Aliens?

Same scene as when the Marines in that movie found the colonial settler- the one who asked the Marines to kill her, please.

[Odin2005]

342. DOH, I'm an idiot. That's what I get for not reading the article fully!

[Aerows]

242. Duke Nukem Forever

is so crappy, it's not even worth taking the time to download it for free, and not just because of disgusting crap discussed in the article.

The game went way over the line, and pretty much everyone that has reviewed it has acknowledged it. The reviews were so bad, that the PR company threatened reviewers that they wouldn't get copies in the future of other games if they didn't give it good reviews. That, of course, came out, and caused yet another bru-ha-ha and the PR company got fired.

You can't judge every game by Duke Nukem Forever. There are plenty of other games out there to play that have real artistic value (Dragon Age, Mass Effect, and Fallout come to mind). PLENTY of reviewers have said "this isn't right" in regards to DN4, so let's not judge the entire industry by one shitty game that goes way over the line.

[GeorgeGist]

245. SCOTUS approved.

[4lbs]

246. I think the Stonekeep award will be renamed the DNF award.

For those that don't know what I mean, Stonekeep was a game in the 1990s that was infamous for being, at the time, the game that took the longest time from conception (vaporware) to completion (actual product you can buy on store shelves). It took 6 years.

Now, DNF (Duke Nukem Forever) demolishes that by going from 1997 (conception) to completion (2011). Fourteen years!


Oh, and if you are not familiar with Duke Nukem, in the previous version, Duke Nukem 3D, he pretty much did the same stuff. Although, I don't remember killing women in that one, there were strippers and druggies.

Duke Nukem's character is supposed to be a blend of Bruce Willis' "Die Hard", John Wayne, and the Bruce Campbell hero in "Army of Darkness". He even says "Ooooh.... Hail to the King, baby!"

[Javaman]

249. Nothing gets people riled up more than the video games...

while real terror and tragedy of epic proportions takes place in afghanistan and pakistan everyday. (and countless other places were the US military/mercenaries tendrils reach)

yet, we just sort of stamp our feet and scream, "MEH" at that.

when people have no control over what really matters in their life they choose instead to go crazy over things that don't.

Video games - in your face.

The real tragedy of war - not so much. (thank you MSN)

[femrap]

250. No one can tell

me that these violent, misogynist videos don't desensitize males. I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be a young woman today having to deal w/ dudes who play such crap.

Our culture has hit a new low. As in 1984....'War is Peace.' 'Death is Freedom.'

Any 'progressive' who believes these types of videos are OK....isn't a progressive person.

I've read that the military uses these types of videos in Iraq....gets them all riled up before heading out on their detail. And we wonder why they all come home with PTSD. Just think what the women enduring this violence must feel...Double PTSD?

[zappaman]

258. what a load of horseshit

I am a progressive and I think these type of videos have a right to exist.
you have the right not to purchase or play them.
Part of being progressive is understanding the first ammendment...which you obviously don't.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

261. Reality check.

"I can't imagine how difficult it must be to be a young woman today having to deal w/ dudes who play such crap."

In all likelihood, you DO deal with more than one person who "plays such crap" in their free time. You don't have a clue that they do, because they don't have horns or smell of sulphur.

[femrap]

281. Reality back at you....

I can guarantee you that I don't. Given today's 'culture' and high levels of willful ignorance, I'm pretty much a recluse.

I'd rather be around animals than 99% of the people in my part of the country. Having and using one's brain is a curse today.

[sudopod]

361. They do, however, frequently wear Hollister shirts

and smell like Natty Light.

[JonLP24]

273. I gotta say

the last paragraph is BS as someone who went over there. However, I don't know what it is like in every unit but it couldn't have an effect of PTSD. PTSD comes from serious psychological trauma that I never heard coming from video games. Things like war, experiencing a death, physical or sexual assault, etc.

[Name removed]

282. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[JonLP24]

283. We didn't watch violent videos either

or ones that were organized by our unit. Like I said I can't speak for every unit because I was only in 1.

24 for IQ? Nice personal attack. For some reason I never picked up personal attacks from video games or videos.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

252. Geez, the first checkbox is working overtime in this one.

:nuke:

[NNN0LHI]

254. I have no idea who could possibly enjoy or be interested in stuff like this?

That there is a market for this is troubling.

Make it illegal? No, I don't think so.

But if I were forced to associate with someone who was showing an interest in this stuff I would keep a very close eye on them.

Very close.

Don

[themadstork]

322. Do you feel the same way about those who watch the various serial killer shows?

Very troubling.

[Glassunion]

262. Art is a difficult thing at times.

I had an epiphany when it came to art. There were times when I looked at or took in a form of "art" and would think to myself "Who the hell likes this garbage" or "This is sick" or even "What does this do for someone who looks/plays/uses/listens to/etc... this crap."

This epiphany came after a visit to MOMA in NY. There was an exhibit where there were just a bunch of naked people positioned around the museum. They would stand perfectly still and stare off into space. I'm a bit of a prude so it bugged me to the point where it dominated my experience at the museum. In almost every doorway, hallway and exhibit room, was a naked person. When I was trying to take in art that I wanted to see I found myself feeling very uncomfortable at the notion that there was a naked person standing in the same room. I left quite pissed at the exhibit.

Then the epiphany hit me when I asked myself a question. "What is art?" When I answered that question, I no longer found myself detesting any form of art. Sure I still choose what to, and what not to expose myself to, but I do not detest it.

I cannot detest this form of art, but I can choose not to experience it. And, if I was exposed to it, I would not question it, nor would I detest it for what it is... Art.

[Taverner]

264. Remind me not to buy this video game

However, the first ammendment is the first ammendment.

You don't fuck with it, OK?

[fascisthunter]

266. I play alot of games, and I have to admit, this is pretty twisted

and the game is junk... check out the reviews.

[Jakes Progress]

274. Desensitization of the species.

Amazing how many, even here, find these things a form of entertainment.

[KittyWampus]

278. I would like to respond to your short but thoughtful post by including this quote-

"Be the change you want to see in the world".
- Mahatma Gandhi


If you want to see Peace, then create Peace in your own environment. If you want to see women respected, then respect women around you and in general.

Saying you want Peace but then habitually playing violent video games, for instance, is hypocritical and counter-productive.

[Jakes Progress]

284. Pardon me.

Is the point of your response to my post suggesting that I play these games? Where did you get that idea?

[TNLib]

280. Sounds like a terrible game

I really enjoy playing video games and won't say anything bad about them. I especially enjoy the more adult oriented rpg games. But I wouldn't let my kid play anything like the games that I play.
I play adult oriented video games at Night after my child goes to bed.

As a women I also don't pass judgment on others who play violent games. My best friends are gamers and they are the most non violent men (geeks) I've ever known.

I guess my point is this game does sound terrible and lame but I wouldn't pass judgment on the Duke Nukem fans that would enjoy playing this game.

[0rganism]

285. Zero Punctuation skewers DNF... twice

once as vaporware (from 2009)

and once as the incredibly shitty game it turned out to be

[and-justice-for-all]

291. Where is the 'rape' aspect to which you are referring?

I just watched the vids and to me, it is similar to what happens in ALIENS; victims are collected and used as host for more xenomorphs.

[davepc]

294. Well the orginal ALIENS was a rape metaphore in of itself

So there's that.

The whole thing is an embarrassment to everyone involved.

Shit game from a shit studio.

Just part and parcel of the incompetent leadership at 3dRealms that it took 15+ years to get out to door after a lawsuit and sale of the IP.

Shit game with shit writing.

[Occulus]

308. No, it wasn't, quite.

The first victim seen onscreen being killed by an Alien birth was a man, in the dinner scene from the original "Alien". In "Aliens", it was a woman, and in Alien3, it was a dog.

Alien Resurrection was an entirely different animal best not spoken of in the full light of day. ;)

[davepc]

324. the victims being men was in fact the point

The creature is a metaphor for rape. The director and the designer of the creature have said as much.

[Occulus]

326. The creators (O'Bannon specifically) were a tiny bit more specific

Interspecies alien rape... via the mouth... with a decided life cycle.

It's certainly not what the hysterics on this thread are equaling it to. My point was, Alien did almost exactly this, did it first, did it a long time ago, and there really wasn't much controversy.

[and-justice-for-all]

333. I am well versed in the ALIEN franchise...

and I have never thought for a second that 'rape' was being suggested. I do not sit and over anaylize a movie, I simply want to watch it and enjoy it, which I do with the ALIEN franchise and others.

But ones the picture has been painted for me, http://www.cracked.com/article_18932_alien-film-franchise-based-entirely-rape.html I can now see it, but it does not change my view of the films.

[and-justice-for-all]

332. I guess if that is something your looking for, your going to see it..

but I am a huge fan of the ALIEN frnachise and I have never come to the conclusion that you reached; I can not agree that there was any rape metaphor in the franchise.

The game maybe something that you find offensive, but as violent as it is, it is a matter of parenting.

[Supply Side Jesus]

296. **YAWN**

wake me up when something substantial come ups....

[whathehell]

299. Of course....Nothing is "substantial" if it's only about females, is it?

Wake me when you get a conscience.:boring:

[EOTE]

302. No, it's "substantial" when an OP doesn't need to be extremely deceitful to gain attention.

If this were truly an issue, such lies and invalid comparisons wouldn't need to be made.

[Supply Side Jesus]

325. of course, but you never make a peep when it's males

hypocrite, double standard, but this doesn't surprise me. conscience indeed.

[whathehell]

343. Oh yeah....Those poor, oppressed males...All the "peeps" they've been missing!

:rofl:

Ever hear of "false equivalence", sweetie?

[fascisthunter]

371. dur

You have the very views of a misogynists... I'm a man, and I think your statement is a red herring. Don't stand up for guys.... thanks.

[Liquorice]

334. Yep, I've seen a lot of that around here. nt

[JesterCS]

320. errr. anyone

who has played Duke Nukem knows thats the staple of the story. Aliens steal the women to impregnate them. They game has a mature rating, and while yes, graphic. Doesnt make me want to go out and rape someone with tentacles. Video games in my eye are pure fiction and entertainment. Anyone who thinks Video games emulate real life has serious mental problems.

[themadstork]

323. Would like to point out that there's a difference between genuinely feminist analysis and

hamfisted moralist grandstanding.



For starters, the one is way older than the other.

[JVS]

335. How does one clutch pearls with hamfists?

[whathehell]

345. And as a male

Can you tell me what feminist books and essays

you have read to discern the difference?

Studies show that most men and boys refuse

reading even fiction authored by women

let alone "genuine feminist analysis".

[McCamy Taylor]

338. Worse atrocity----the SCOTUS giving foreign companies unlimited "free speech" rights in elections.

[whathehell]

346. Sure, change the subject

That will work.:eyes:

[Scout]

353. so start a thread about it! oh, you don't really think it's that bad, tho, right?

you just want to be snotty about THIS op.

transparent

[chrisa]

357. I lol'd

However, I'm afraid many will miss your point, and continue with the moral panic on this thread.

[seabeyond]

358. it is disgust. it has nothing to do with this morality others use to shut people up

pure and simple disgust seeing naked women hung upside down to be shot dead. maybe you all ought to get off the moral issue crap. unless all vulgar and trash is going to be tied into morality. sometimes it is just calling trash what it is.

[chrisa]

366. Duke Nukem

It's not meant to be taken seriously. It's not a political statement or attempt to dehumanize or belittle women. Duke Nukem is just a character in an absurdest / satirical land besieged by aliens. It's all supposed to be extremely cheesy and ridiculous, to the point where it makes you cringe. Duke Nukem is also supposed to be extremely offensive, to the point where you stare at the game for a couple of seconds and say "wtf is this shit?"

The title relies on cringe-worthy laughter, kind of like shows like Family Guy, where some of the content is so offensive and ridiculous that you either get pissed off, laugh, or both.

DNF is less easy to forgive, however, because it's a very bad and unfun game. If the game were actually funny, people would forgive it more. For example, with that "Hive" level with the suffering women, it was terrible because human suffering is never funny. There's no potential for humor there, not even cringe-worthy, dark dark humor.

It's not supposed to be taken seriously in the least bit. Getting offended at Duke Nukem would be like getting offended at Family Guy - it's the dumbest form of humor possible, so it's really not even worth analyzing.

[JonLP24]

368. Family Guy is a good comparison

One of the funniest episodes of Family Guy opened with a scene with a racist sunflower. The sunflower made me cringe, not laugh, but the rest of the episode was great.

[seabeyond]

370. and we dont watch it. we dont find it funny. we dont desensitize ourselves to ugly

to the point where it becomes acceptable and our society rears it ugly sexist, racist, homophobic head.... again. and i think the family guy, the jackasses, the nukems, the snookies all feed that in our society.

then, we have progressives tell us that if we dare to not want the shit in our life, if we dare to challenge the trash that is produced, we are pearl clutchers, prudes, or moralist.

my brother, who has lived in the gutter, raised kids in that gutter, have one in juvie, another two kids, two men at 20 and working on another, and another son member of some gang, lectured me..... that i just dont live in his world. he told me.... "i am not insulting you, but you do not see the same thing i do".

why the fuck is it an insult to me, that i refuse to have the crap in my life.

i have worked hard for years.... to not live in trash.

i dont apologize because i think this is perverted shit, or trashy shit and i dont want it in my life.

yet there is a group on du, that think they are oh so cool, so hip, so progressive, so fuckin awesome cause they watch the shows that are about degrading and dehumanizing other people.

and what a laugh.... ha ha ha.

not funny
not entertaining

and as much as you all have the right to defend, watch and participate

i have the right to say it is trash.

[JonLP24]

378. I'm not sure how to respond

I'll give it a shot. You have every right not to watch and every right to criticize any form of entertainment. I believe in freedom of choice & freedom of speech. I do think the point at least when it comes to Family Guy is it is not meant to be taken seriously. Regardless of what is in the show I know Seth MacFarlane is a progressive and vocal supporter of LGBT rights. Also the show has a diverse following, not just white straight males watch the show.

Personally, Family Guy is not a show I often watch. I'm more of a Simpsons guy. Not a fan of Jackass, some of the stunts & skits they do is funny but I'm turned off that they often go to gross humor such as eating an animal's penis. I don't watch Jersey Show and will probably never play Duke Nukem.

[seabeyond]

379. sigh....

not talking about you personally.

out of all the people to rant at, you are one of the few that does not deserve it because of your balanced approach. lol

[seabeyond]

369. it is meant to offend, it offends, then people want others to not be offended. waht sense does that

make. it is like howard stern or rude pundit that works so damn hard to be offensive. them when people are offended, their fans defend them. ridiculous. at the very least call it what it is.

the WHOLE game is meant to dehumanize women. that is the character of the man they created.

it is trash.

you dont want to be offended, your right. but i have the right to say it is trash, gutter, perverted, disgusting..... hanging naked women upside down to kill. if those 7 words do not make you cringe, it is what i feel on the desensitizing of our society that is doing us so much damage. that goes beyond this game. that we see being fed upon all over our society.

[toddaa]

339. I love horror movies

I'm a sick fuck.

Oh wait. This is a video game thread. I'm in the wrong moral outrage line.

[whathehell]

351. That's nice...

:boring:

[whathehell]

347. "The liberal mind is fiercely obdurate when it comes to the treatment of women"

Susan Brownmiller, author "Against Our Will"

[MellowDem]

372. Maybe you'd be taken seriously...

if you could prove that this is an issue about the treatment of women, or effects the treatment of women in a negative way, and is not just entertainment.

It would also help if the OP wasn't mostly hyperbole and falsehood.

I would have to say that the sudden outrage at this game shows selective outrage. Men are the "victims" much more often in video games than women, if you believe the whole "video games make people do things" line of reasoning, I would have expected a lot more outrage way before this game came out.

What it usually comes down to though, is that a lot of the people most outraged have little understanding of video games and never play them. I guess if you have never watched a movie, your first violent movie you saw would shock and outrage you.

[seabeyond]

373. beck and oreilly are merely entertainment. surely you would not argue

they influence peoples thinking process?

[MellowDem]

375. They are the truth to many people...

however, somehow I doubt that anyone who plays DNF thinks of it as anything but entertainment. Fox News is entertainment to you and me, but to many people, it is deadly serious. That's the difference.

DNF is selling horribly. Do you know why? Not because of its shock value and offensive nature, which it has had forever. But because it is a boring video game that is not entertaining. Entertainment is all that really matters for gamers and most video games, though preferences vary greatly by genre. That's because it is not taken seriously. It is, indeed, a "game". Not news.

There are some genres and games that are becoming much better at storytelling, so that you feel for the characters and that have superb writing and really cause the player to make gut-wrenching choices. I have heard "Rain" is one of those games.

DNF is just a shooter. And compared to other shooters nowadays, it's bad. So they try to make it up by living off the legacy of the game as being one of the first shooters and playing up the tacky trademarks of the game, including the now tired "unpc" over-the-top main character that was such a huge controversy in the 90s, who is now seen more like a relic. Back in the day the "Simpsons" was thought of as controversial and edgy. DNF just looks like it is in a mid-life crisis and "trying too hard" if you know what I mean.

[seabeyond]

376. misogynism is very real, very much a part of too many mens lives. and this feeds it.

it may be entertainment to you to shoot naked women hung upside in a most vulnerable and humiliating manner, but not entertaining to me.

[MellowDem]

380. I didn't buy the game...

and that is just part of the story, like countless other stories, and not the main source of "entertainment". Shooters are entertaining because of the challenge and tactics and strategy and, to a degree, the graphics, none of which DNF has much of. Story is rarely a big emphasis, like most action movies. So you get stupid, overdone premises like women being impregnated by aliens.

I don't know if this feeds a man's views of women. That is quite an assumption to make. If the game is seen as a "game" and as purely entertainment, it is hard to see how it would have much of an impact on how women are viewed. And its lack of popularity at the very least shows that misogyny is not the driving factor of whether men want to play the game or not.

Considering its mature rating, any mentally stable adult male who plays the game would understand the context of the DNF series and how it is intentionally over the top.

All it comes down to is that parenting matters much more than any video game or other form of media does.

[seabeyond]

381. parenting matters much more than any video game or other form of media does

i will agree with you on this, lol.

my husband didnt know about the crap. read up on the game and wasnt going to buy because like you adn many say, it is a crappy game, with crappy reviews. but... if game was marked higher, he would have done research and not bought the game because of the storyline of misogyny. and it is not just that one scene. there are many. go further into it, the door is a crotch that opens, boobs to knock around. it is thru out the video. as a critic says, creepy and hateful to women.

[MellowDem]

385. Or just hypersexualized...

I mean, if the main character is an egotistic ladies man and the game uses extreme humor, it's not surprising to me that they made an alien door that looks like a vagina (along with the wise cracks by Duke). I would say that it's not creepy and hateful so much as just juvenile, like jokes fifth graders would make. Duke is a misogynist, it is his character, and he is a caricature of the macho dude from 80s action movies. Caricatures can say and do offensive things.

The creators were intentionally going for offensive and controversial to sell the game. I just have a hard time buying controversy that is intentionally manufactured as part of a marketing strategy too seriously.

Most gamers would find the game boring, that's why they didn't buy it. Juvenile sexual jokes and pixelated boobs don't titillate adults. But Duke is a cult classic for many hardcore gamers because of its history and this game is famous for being in development for 14 years, so those who buy it are probably doing it more out of nostalgia and respect for the history of the series than anything else, and the series has always been pushing the envelope and "edgy", though this time it seems stale by now.

I would say the game is poking fun and itself, and you are supposed to laugh at how ridiculous it is, because it is.

If people find it offensive, fine, but I don't think there is much of a danger of it spreading creepy views to people who play it.

[whathehell]

382. Maybe you would be taken seriously

if you weren't such an obvious "fan"

of these mindless adolescent boy toys.

You might score more points playing in Mom's basement

than you are on this board, because as you MAY

have noticed there's a rather obvious

male-female split on this thread regarding them.

[MellowDem]

386. Thanks for the personal attacks...

Like I was saying, it's hard to take this seriously when you refuse to show how people who play this game will be corrupted by it.

And when you resort to personal attacks right away, it makes your argument look even weaker.

The split I see is mostly between people familiar with the history of Duke Nukem and those who are not.

Do you like being a bully or something?

I like this one line thing.

Hope you feel better.

[whathehell]

388. and thank you for yours as well.

"Like I was saying, it's hard to take this seriously when you refuse to show how people who play this game will be corrupted by it".

The question of the players being "corrupted" is not the entire issue here.

Imagine, for instance, that this game, instead of featuring pregnant women, featured Blacks awaiting a lynching by Bad White Guys...These bad white guys

get killed, but not before they lynch the black guys.

Here's another scenario...How 'bout a game which features Jews being about to be shoved in overns by Bad Guy Nazis....The nazis are eventually killed, but not

before the Jews are burned in the overns......Would you find any of that offensive?

I certainly would, and I'm neither Jewish nor Black.

The whole CONCEPT of making a game of killing "pregnant, powerless, weeping women", is like making a game of killing those once (and to an extent, still) powerless minorities is in ITSELF insulting and hurtful....Regardless of the "effect" on the men playing it.

When you make a "game" of hurting the "weaker" who in real life ARE hurt on a consistent basis

by the "stronger", it's shows NO respect for them or their feelings.

[MellowDem]

389. Your examples are poor comparisons...

I don't see what would be wrong with a game that depicts events that actually happened. Black people were lynched. Jews were killed en masse. Context would matter of course, but nothing makes having those in a video game automatically offensive. No more so than having them in movies, books, etc. Sure, it could be made offensive in any media context.

However, this is just pure fantasy, aliens invading and trying to take over the world. Have aliens ever attacked and raped women? No.

The whole concept of this game is not to kill women. That is where your strawman pops up.

[whathehell]

390. I think not...but even if they were, the fact that you think it would be "okay"

to have games featuring Blacks being lynched

and Jews being gassed, tells me all I need to

know about your naivete and lack of maturity.

I'm afraid you'll have to either learn more

or live longer in order to have a conversation

on this topic which could, in your words,

be taken seriously.

Happy trails, bro...You have some

growing up to do.:hi:

[MellowDem]

391. Heh, maturity...

speaking of which, I guess you better stay away from R rated movies, much less lots of books, that do indeed show and talk about lynchings and the Holocaust. I guess the subject matter is too mature for you.

Like I said, it is all in context. Why video games should be off limits for exploring historical subjects seems rather perplexing to me. Certainly, movies and books are able to. Your inconsistency doesn't add up.

[whathehell]

392. If you think we should have video games depicting lynching of Blacks and gassing of Jews

I'd suggest you ask DUers their opinion,

especially Jewish and African American DUers.

You could perhaps make it a poll.

Go ahead....Their feedback might tell you something.

[MellowDem]

393. Do you think there should be movies showing such?

Or books? If so, why not video games, or any other sort of medium?

You keep trying to change the subject and make strawmen, and it's kinda getting predictable now.

[seabeyond]

395. if/when there are movies showing sick, perverted misogynist shit, then i will speak up and out about

them as much as i do about computer games that have misogynist shit that feeds our society.

it is not a matter of allowing

it is a matter of calling them out. it is a matter of society saying this is not entertainment, it is sick perverted misogynist shit and i have no interest in watching or playing it.

people dont buy, producers dont make.

not making illegal. the problem with this issue, is whenever people come out and call it trash.... you and others start claiming, you want to make it illegal. no one said illegal. but we do have the right to call it trash without being labeled prude, pearl clutcher, swooning on a couch.

[sudopod]

359. Gods on Olympus the nerd rage in this thread is delicious.

NO, DON'T TAKE AWAY MAH ALIEN RAPE! WHY DO YOU HATE AMERICA?!

I cut my teeth on Mortal Kombat, but this is an all-round travesty, and pointing that out doesn't make the OP Just Like Hitler(TM).

Maybe if Sony could get the PSN back up then the kids have something else to do. :3

[MellowDem]

374. i find it hilarious...

you think this is somehow worse than "Mortal Kombat". It's certainly no worse than countless sci-fi movies.

It's a tacky, bad game. But I fail to see the selective controversy being generated here when so many other games, movies, books, etc. throughout history have had this or worse.

[sudopod]

377. Did you read the article? That's all the OP said.

He said it sucked ass and that the sociopath humor was over-the-top. I guess that makes him the head Censorship Nazi who wants to destroy your freedom to break into bases and kill dudes.

The overreaction is hilarious in a tragically nerdy way. Sometimes, games are just bad, and it is OK to say so. It isn't a betrayal of Bill of Rights to say so. ;)

[MellowDem]

384. The article said that...

the joke was "rape" and the implication of many of the responses on here is that anyone that plays such a game is "sick". Yet, sociopathic behavior is on all of those mainstream crime shows every night, along with a hefty dose of violence, but you never hear people say that those who watch it are somehow sociopaths themselves.

I agree that the game is bad, but I just think that the characterization of it as some sort of corrupting evil that celebrates rape and will influence young men to do horrible things is an old tired canard that we heard throughout the 90s. I think some of the fear of the game's effect on society is an overreaction is all, based on no evidence, and with some evidence actually pointing the other way. I have no problem with people's opinion on the game as entertainment.

[Fire1]

362. Correction: "hanged." n/t