How do we stop Obama from touching Social Security?

[CaliforniaPeggy]

Or Medicare?

Are we too late?

Do we need to primary him?

I am seriously upset.

Your thoughts?

Damn.

[SugarShack]

1. I've been saything this for awhile and not sleeping because I don't trust him with this.Primary him!

[Drale]

16. So you want a Republican president?

Because when you primary a President, the stats say he's probably not going to win. So your calling for the complete destruction of the United States because that is what is going to happen if there is a Republican president espically if its Bachmann.

[nc4bo]

43. We also shouldn't have to worry about what a Democratic President is willing to do

in certain situations but especially as far as SS, Medicare/Medicaid is concerned.

At least with a Republican President, we know what to expect.

[Drale]

45. Yeah expect to be killed by the army when you protest something you don't like

because the US will be Nazi germany if the Republicans regain power.

[nc4bo]

48. They're already setting up for it haven't you heard? And your local PD will be standing right along

beside them.

Being a Democrat used to mean something, usually something that would benefit society and would ensure certain things would be protected and preserved for generations. In reality, it's just a brand name a and the product itself is different and not in a good way for any of us.

[StarsInHerHair]

267. police & firefighters are leaving the GOP in droves now, because they're

considered "union thugs" & called this now outright by TP & Republiscum

[elocs]

122. Shades of that are on the horizon here in WI if the recalls fail & Walker is not recalled.

Walker would serve until 2015 if he is not recalled next year and if he were backed up and emboldened by a Republican president with a conservative state Supreme Court as well as a conservative U.S. Supreme Court I shudder at what he would do or attempt to do.

Believe me, none of us would want on a national level what is happening here in Wisconsin. A Republican president with a Republican controlled House and Senate along with a conservative Supreme Court would work quickly to dismantle hard won social programs that help the lives of millions of Americans--the poor, the needy, senior citizens, any who are not wealthy.

[guruoo]

218. They don't plan to stop at just 'dismantling' existing programs...

They intend in one form or another to seek 'reparations' for past social program expenditures.

[trueblue2007]

190. Exactly.... even though there will be more of US than THEM marching in the streets

they will throw US in concentration camps and jails.... unless the PEOPLE deliver the message with huge weapons against the REPUKE government. And i'm not in favor of annihilation. Maybe another 1776.

[dgibby]

273. That's because more of US will be living the streets! n/t

[jwirr]

205. Your statement is the best reason I have seen for voting for Obama

even if he is the lesser of two evils. I do not think there is any question after watching the governors in red states and our MN congress in action where we are headed if the rethugs take over everything again.

[guruoo]

215. dupe nt

[guruoo]

216. That is their end game. One that we ignore at our peril. nt

[liberation]

219. ... and just like that, this thread is officially Godwined

Yay!

[RaleighNCDUer]

220. I can understand your fear of the radicals on the other side.

What I don't understand is you NOT fearing those on "our side" who enable and support those radicals.

[The Big Vetolski]

285. Bah! Do you really think the Army will fire on its own people?

I mean en masse, not like Kent State. Remember, the Army is US! The soldiers are our brothers and sisters and children, too. So are the police. Do you really think they will fight for the same people who have screwed them over as much as they have the rest of us?

Louis XVI, Charles I, Nicholas II and the Shah of Iran thought the same thing. Look what happened to them!

[Bluebear]

72. Ooooh President Bachmann, scary!

[21st Century FDR]

81. I didn't want a Republican president in 2008

But it looks like I got one anyway.

[bluethruandthru]

88. +10000

I'm starting to wonder if President Huntsman would be so bad.

[hay rick]

269. Or if you could tell the difference. nt

[MissDeeds]

102. Yep, it looks that way n/t

[muffin1]

104. +1,000,000

:thumbsup:

[BlueJac]

182. Fact!

:thumbsup:

[Alameda]

192. Unfortunately, too true. I expected a little audacity to stand up!

Instead he seems to crumple up at the slightest show of strength from the Republicans. Look at his appointments....sigh...I am seriously upset.

[femrap]

256. The only audacity we'll get is

The Audacity of Austerity.

I'm starting to think that Americans will be the 'new illegal immigrants.' I wish my grandfather had kept in contact with his relatives in Germany. I'd happily live there. Of course they'd just come after us.

[truebrit71]

197. BINGO!!!!

Now prepare to be flamed by the apologists...

[Dappleganger]

231. Unfortunately true.

I wanted to give him a chance but he has gone too far to the right.

[Sherman A1]

240. Precisely

[Hun Joro]

243. Yup. nt

[FreeBillClinton]

261. Exactly.

[FreeBillClinton]

262. Bernie Sanders 2012!

[The Big Vetolski]

287. Bernie is a member of the Democratic Socialist Party. Just FYI.

Don't get me wrong. I like Bernie a lot.

[The Big Vetolski]

286. Do you have the right avatar? You sound like Harry Truman.

That's a compliment, BTW.

[21st Century FDR]

296. We could use a few 21st century Harry Trumans too.

So I'll accept the compliment :)

[Chan790]

89. This isn't 1980, it's 1968.

A failed Democratic Presidency daily increasingly out-of-touch with the popular will, combined with a weak GOP field; the person best positioned to win the Presidency is the person who primaries Obama. I'd say we have a better chance of losing if we don't primary him.

RFK would have won 1968 in a landslide...if only. None of the current GOP candidates is remotely as strong of a candidate as Richard Nixon was even. They're already frantic that they don't have a single candidate they think is capable of winning in any scenario.

Obama can't say he wasn't warned...every major voice on our side of the aisle said if he caved here, he'd be over as President. His own partisans said as much. He just one-termed himself. For the second time in a year, all he had to do was nothing and the GOP would have folded when their backs hit the wall because they had infinitely more to lose than he did.

His only hope of survival here is that the tax-increase he got the GOP to agree to is pre-Reagan in size. Otherwise he's a shit-poker player, playing with other people's money.

[LarryNM]

116. Primaring Obama Seems the Best of Slim Choices

Maybe strong opposition in the primaries will straighten him out at least. Speaking of '68, RFK most likely would have won. After his death and the Democratic Convention word was getting around that a lot of the "crazies" were going to vote for Wallace to "bring it all down". Well, I don't know how many did but I think there are more "crazies" now.

[Eddie Haskell]

128. We already know how he plays poker.

He shows his opponents his hand and folds when they claim their's is better. The winner never even shows their cards.

[ptownbro]

163. Eddie Haskell... I love that

"We already know how he plays poker. He shows his opponents his hand and folds when they claim their's is better."

Well said!

[Erose999]

131. Obama should just go LBJ and not run for re-election. He won't be missed.

[onenote]

225. and who among the potential primary opponents has RFK's stature?

There isn't going to be a primary challenge to the President. You might as well get used to that idea.

[StarsInHerHair]

268. your psche out fails

[onenote]

303. your fantasy fails

[Chan790]

297. I don't think you need a RFK even...

remember that there is no Nixon on the other side. There's a Romney. I could draw fifteen names out of a hat and wager that ten of them could beat a Romney. Fifteen of them would beat a Bachmann.

[onenote]

302. draw 1 name with the stature to challenge Obama

RFK had the stature to challenge a sitting president. We're talking about primaries here, not general elections.

[Chan790]

305. Do you comprehend how wildly unpopular this will be?

If he does this, he has no future stature. He'd lose to the likes of Cynthia McKinney in a primary and David Duke in a general election. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

But to take your challenge: Well-renown, likable, charismatic, less likely to lose a Presidential election in a post-debt-ceiling&social-security capitulation election...

I hear Eliot Spitzer's free. He got fired yesterday from his TV show. For that matter, you could go back to Gore. The man's as interesting as a fern but at-least he knows not to piss on core-constituencies of the Democratic Party and attempt to destroy programs that are popular with everybody but the fringe-right of the political spectrum and very-very-popular with the middle class. Or Kerry even, the same applies.

[onenote]

309. are you saying Obama would lose to CYnthia McKinney>

Congratulations on winning the contest for most delusional post of the year, if not the entire history of DU.

[Chan790]

312. And David Duke.

You answered my question sufficiently. You have no idea how wildly unpopular this will be if it happens. If he does this, he has no re-electability.

The exact same scenario we faced in 1968 with LBJ; an incumbent President with 0% chance of re-election.

This happens, the only person ever at-risk of losing a presidential election to Crazy-eyes Bachmann will be Barack Obama.

[onenote]

315. you realize that "it" can't happen without a vote of a majority of Congress

and "it" will be unequivocally supported by every repub in Congress and every repub presidential candidate.

Its not even close to the scenario faced in 1968 since you don't even have a clue what "it" is.

But keep hoping its as bad as you've decided it is, since that seems to float your boat.

[jtown1123]

123. At least with a republican president, Democrats could rally and block SS changes

Now, democrats are just neutered. They don't want to have to fight their own president. That's how Bush privatization was stopped.

[kiranon]

161. Republican presidential appointments to Supreme Court would make it

impossible to move any progressive issues forward for generations.

[xphile]

173. What difference does that make if we can't get Democrats to move progressive issues forward anyway?

[AllyCat]

212. I fear we will get "Republican" appointments no matter who is elected

Obama is showing how he plays this...he plays against us. He's had a couple reasonable appointments so far, but every other thing he does screws us. So what is the point?

[StarsInHerHair]

270. like the GOP choices Obama appointed in Texas? like that? how do you know

Obama wont do that on the SC?

[fascisthunter]

124. keep saying that

nobody gives a damn anymore. People see what's happening and it's happening while one of our own is in office. Your fear tactics will do nothing.

[Eddie Haskell]

125. Bull, if he's screws with SS, he won't win anyway.

Besides, I can't take four more years of this shit. I say can his ass now.

[Fearless]

133. Fear is the tool of Fox News and shouldn't be the tool of DU, IMHO of course.

[INdemo]

134. If we primary Obama then the Democrats would show up

at the polls and vote..And would probably show up in record numbers in Nov 2012..as it is now Obama is the best Republican candidate money can buy.
Or we could organize a serious Draft Sanders movement and win with Independents

[Lorien]

177. Sounds good to me

Sanders may be an independent, but he's ten times the Democrat that Obama is!

[Solomon]

183. LOL Everybody is, even you, until

you get there. Delusional fantasy to think anybody is gonna get in there and just say f you to everybody, and get his/her way.

Keep on dreaming.

[INdemo]

235. Obama cannot win..If he is the Democratic nominee

Democrats will stay home...We still have time to draft a real progressive to challenge this Republican.

[roxiejules]

251. Go to Sen. Sander's web site and take the SS poll:

What do you think? Take our new survey »

http://sanders.senate.gov/polls/index.cfm?uid=7f1106fe-a383-4473-8f0d-3ed108a86140

[swilton]

241. +++++

[no limit]

151. We have a republican president now.

And we are for the total destruction of the United States because we want to block a president who wants to cut the very things that make a Demcorat a Democrat?

But if you want to talk hyperbole I guess two can play that game. Why do you want to kill the elderly and the disabled? Because Obama is about to cut the very programs many seniors and disabled people in this country rely on to survive. And your argument is that we should fall in line and shut the fuck up about it. I guess if it's not your life on your line then the only important thing to you is cheering for the right team. Fuck everyone else that happens to be less fortunate than you. Right?

[on point]

157. We have a republican president, he just calls himself a dem. We REALLY want a legit DEM!!

[IndyMaine]

162. You know what? I don't think it would make a damned bit of difference

If Obama or Romney won in 2012. In fact, I think Romney would be held more accountable and kept in check BY THE DEMOCRATIC BASE than our current (so-called) Democratic President, whom some feel has carte-blanche to do whatever the hell he wants just because he has great pecs, or whatever. Many people have said that Obama is only able to offer up Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security as sacrifices because he's a Democrat. And I fully agree with them.

After 2012, if Obama wins, he'll be able to do even MORE of whatever the hell he wants, and that frightens me as much as Bush getting a second term did in 2004.

Should Bachmann get nominated, I will hold my nose and curse the foul Obama stench as I vote for him. If it's not Bachmann there's no way he will get my vote. I won't vote Republican, but I will write in whomever I feel like writing in. Because Obama is no different than anyone in the Republican field who's to the left of Bachmann (and he's actually far to the right of Ron Paul on several VERY important issues such as propping up useless wars and equally useless "too big to fail" banks).

[BobbyBoring]

168. We already have one

Obama is as much a Dem as W was a "Compassionate conservative"

[INdemo]

Deleted

[INdemo]

247. We Can take our Democratic Party BACK

Democrats....we have to go through the primary season and Obama must win to become the nominee..There is a real progressive out there somewhere that would step forward and challenge Obama and that progressive could win..Democrats would turn out in record numbers..

[femrap]

258. These political minions

we call presidents have no real power. They are bought and paid for....they do as they are told. It's Wall Street, the excessively,inherited wealthy, the CEOs of multi-nationals, the Military Machine that call the shots.

Obama may in fact have made a deal 4 years ago that he is willing to be a one-term prez. Ever thought of that?

He has done for the little worker bees....nothing. And now he wants to pick on old, poor people. He is the puppet of the sadistic psychopath class of people....these people love death and destruction. I think they're working on WW3/Crusades #2.

These campaigns are nothing more than a CIRCUS and distraction, imho.

ETA: We should be able to vote this candidate: NONE OF THE ABOVE!

[INdemo]

299. So in other words..The Corporate mafia made a deal

with him.."You give us what we want in 4 years and we will set you and your family up for life" "A luxurious retirement as long as we get what we ask for and your cooperation"..
So is this what you mean...

[femrap]

310. Look at O's behavior and you

tell me.

[iwishiwas]

169. It is time to break those "stats" Those stats are what keeps a viable

Progressive from putting his or her hat in the race.

[Beavker]

172. It might take a Teabagger President to get the Indies to figure it out

It's the independents we're talking about here. We know what the true Dems/Progressives/Liberals think, and frankly even some moron Repugs that are blindly following these scum could change their minds if they are shown their true colors and the effects of their rah rah teabag speaches.

But what do we do? Just let Obama give away the farm? How it is we're negotiating stuff with the people that broke our country?

Should we just not vote? I'd HATE for a repug to win, but it's almost like you have to let it happen to get the moron electorate in this country to figure out that we need to legislate to help the citizens of this country directly...not helping the rich and 'hoping' that they throw us a bone. They will not. The only thing I can do other than primary him, is not vote at all. Sounds horrible. But if given the pick between a turd, and a razorblade, some people would choose not to eat eitehr of them for dessert.

[rhett o rick]

176. No that's why we are talking about primarying ours.

Only Republicans would cut SS and Medicare. You figure it out.

Are you willing to compromise with the devil until we have nothing? When will you decide to draw the line?

[sabrina 1]

191. Any president who touches the programs that are the cornerstone

of the Democratic Party, is NOT a Democrat.

There is a reason this has always been called the third rail of politics. No Democrat ever tried it, Republicans tried but failed, if a 'democrat' finally tries, he will not make it anyhow. I do not know a single Democrat who will vote for someone claiming to be a democrat, who does the dirty work of Republicans for them.

I doubt it will matter where he is primaried or not. HE will guarantee almost, a Republican in the WH if he does this. Blame HIM and stop with the accusations against voters. HE and only HE will be responsible IF we get Bachman in the WH.

[Dept of Beer]

204. And what is the Democratic party after that?

[Dept of Beer]

199. No. We want a Democratic one.

[GOTV]

210. But does he lose because he was primaried, or does he lose because he was so bad ...

... it was necessary to primary him.

Perhaps strong presidents that will win election easily, don't get primaried.

[Dappleganger]

229. Because a democratic president destroying the US is so much better?

Get real!

[markpkessinger]

254. A Republican or a DINO -- what's the substantive difference? n/t

[yourout]

260. We already have one.

[Creideiki]

264. What do the stats say about a President in 6 wars, with over 15% real unemployment

who then puts Social Security and Medicare up on the chopping block?

Good odds?

Bad odds?

Want to bet me something? You're obviously rich enough to be able to afford losing something.

[I hate liars]

274. Yes, I do...

I'd rather have Bush's civil liberties policies than Obama's.

I'd rather have Bush's clumsy attempt to privatize Social Security than Obama's "compromise".

I'd rather have Bush's blatant advocacy for the wealthy than Obama's stealth advocacy that disarms opponents of plutocracy.

Maybe if we have another overreaching Republican administration we'll get some actual push back from American voters. With Obama, the only reaction we get is disillusionment and apathy.

Give me the devil I know, the one I can fight.

[Le Taz Hot]

282. Oh, for goddess sake, we HAVE a Republican president

or didn't you notice? Met with Bohner but not Reid? Really????

[grahamhgreen]

292. No we want a Democratic president. We don't have one.

[INdemo]

300. don't think so..We could primary him with a real progressive

candidate and he would get overwhelming support..As it stands now with Obama on the ticket Democrats will stay home and Republicans win.

[we can do it]

111. +1000000

[peace frog]

117. Countdown to "whaddaya want, President Bachmann???"

in 3 - 2 - 1 ... Ah, there it is! Right on time. ;)

[BlueJac]

184. It is funny.....

when the President is a republican the Congress Democrats act like real Democrats, now they act more like pets!!

[swilton]

237. +++++

[somone]

2. Too bad we can't complain to corporate headquarters

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. Sadly as usual, we crazies were proven right again

watch this be defended though... what I think we are seeing is the switcharoo of the parties.

Remember the Dems were the party of business and the Rs were the outside rebels... and then they switched. I think we are watching the begining of that switch... and in two party systems...

Short term forget the primaries, we need strikes.

[mod mom]

99. the two parties have merged to support corporate interest & that of the plutocrats

one big fucking Money Party. :mad:

Do they really want to destroy the fabric of society to the point that multitudes of formerly productive people live in squalor and are forced to turn to crime to survive just so the filthy rich can become even more obscenely wealthy?

[socialist_n_TN]

132. Yep. LOTS and LOTS of strikes

general, called, and wildcat. Along with massive occupying types of IMPOLITE demonstrations. They would cave in two weeks if EVERYBODY went out. Will we? Probably not. We'll see you in the internment facility.

[RaleighNCDUer]

221. And no goddam "free speech zones".

Protesting only where they want you to protest is not a protest.

[socialist_n_TN]

288. Yep. That's all part of the occupying and IMPOLITE

demonstrations. :)

[tavalon]

188. My nickname for years has been Cassandra

It isn't a kind nor wonderful nickname. It is a dross.

[RagAss]

4. If he does...I'll join the Tea Party !

[CaliforniaPeggy]

7. As a disruptor?

I will never do that.

Those are some deluded, scummy backward thinking Republicans.

[RagAss]

17. Just a bit of hyperbole on my part, Peggy. But I would be very upset.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

20. That's what I thought...Thanks for clarifying...nt

[checks-n-balances]

18. Right. From-frying-pan-into-fire.

:dunce::eyes:

[socialist_n_TN]

139. Why? Are you a proto fascist?.........

Join a Communist group. At least they should be closer to your politics than the Teabaggers. Oh yeah, pick up a gun if you don't already own one. Bumpy times ahead and everybody needs something for self defense.

[nc4bo]

5. Politicians of all sorts have been warned "entitlements" are untouchable yet the continue

to play chicken with SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

I asked earlier what was the difference between selling off our public buildings, roads, infrastructure to private companies and the austerity measures being implemented on the people of Greece except in our case, it's on the downlow.

A DUer answered 5 letters, not sure if he was being snarky or that it meant there is no difference.

I don't know CaliforniaPeggy. If it happens then we certainly have reached a point of no return. I'd hope the President knew better.

[bhikkhu]

6. I don't think its Obama you need to worry about

...its the raft of teabagger nutjobs that got elected in 2010 on "fear Obama!" campaigns.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

12. Well, I hope you're right.

That I don't need to worry about him.

But if he continues as President, it will not go well for the nation.

I hate to say it, but I think he's really a Republican. Maybe not all the time, but enough of the time...

[bhikkhu]

30. I don't think I watch enough television to agree with you

...though I am just assuming that's where the opinion could come from, as I don't watch tv. But I have no idea what other kind of information-gathering habit could lead to the opinion that Obama is a republican. Certainly not any objective knowledge of republicans themselves.

on edit - that was unkind, and I doubt that you deserve it. I'm sorry - just mystified sometimes about how people arrive at their opinions.

[Blue_In_AK]

44. In any other age, Obama would be a Republican.

Today's Republicans, in any other age, would be considered too fringe to even get elected. Bernie Sanders seems to be about the only true Democrat these days, and he's a "socialist."

We are fucked.

[bhikkhu]

57. Possible, though how the "character" of an age changes over time is another question

I think the character of this country changed greatly throughout my lifetime, my earliest political memories being the Nixon vs. McGovern campaign (where my parents didn't like McGovern because he used bad language).

No question that circumstances are different, people are different, the economy is different, the problems are different, and the politics are unquestionably different. I find, whether reading old writing or listening again to Carter's speeches (I was a big fan of Carter), that my own thoughts on many things have changed as well. Whether that would have made me a republican in 76 or 80 I highly doubt, but I am more inclined to think that comparing one time to another is inevitably oversimplification, and misses much of the cause-and-effect of things.

The major problems of our day scarcely existed 30 years ago.

[socialist_n_TN]

149. Oh no the major problems of our day BEGAN

30 years ago. That's when they were set into motion. This has been a LONG term conspiracy to destroy the social programs AND the working class and turn them into the slave class. The problems of today are a direct RESULT of conscious decisions made by politicians, with the ignorant complicity of the citizenry, 30 years ago.

[Melissa G]

146. EXACTLY. n/t

[CaliforniaPeggy]

52. I called him that because so many of his decisions

are much the same as the Republicans would make.

Plus he's doing what they demand he do.

I didn't get my ideas from TV, BTW. DU is my main news source.

Not to worry...you didn't strike me as unkind. Not even a little.

[bhikkhu]

62. I get most of my information from NPR News, listening at work

I think the majority of the decisions that are objected to here are economic ones, and I've always had issues with that. Obama's campaign began when the economy was generally considered sound, and heading in the right direction. Greenspan was still called the "maestro" for his deft steering of the whole giant apparatus, and for many many years the "self-regulated marketplace" was the holy grail of economists and both parties.

As Obama had already laid out his campaign, promises and lists of social and economic objectives included, it put a bit of a hitch in things when the global economy seized up and went into sustained freefall, prior to the election. The projections were for years of misery, Greenspan was baffled and admitted failure, and a non-economist (Obama, like Bush, Clinton, and all the rest relied on the help of experts in an unfamiliar field) had little time to put together a plan B.

There is consistent criticism about bailing out the automakers, which are massive employers and the backbone of US manufacturing, but what else could he do? Now instead of an irreparable loss, we have healthy profits and good jobs still. There is consistent criticism about bailing out the failing banks and insurance industry, but again - what could he do? The banks are central to the economy, for better or worse, and without them you'd have a gaping hole instead of a foundation upon which to build. I don't like banks myself, but they need regulation, not termination.

The problem wasn't that the big players were bailed out, but that there was no patience for an economy in recovery, and the repugs used every tool they had to shift the blame onto Obama himself, and congress in general for the collapse, to take a majority back only two years after their own policies wrecked things...

But I suppose that's all beside the point of the OP. The war in Afghanistan is another thing you might say is an (R) type action, and I have to admit that I think he promised the build-up there to appease hawkish independents. In any case, we had the build-up, now we have the draw-down, and hopefully no more similar nonsense, if we can only keep the White House!

[saras]

69. What he could have done is jail the corrupt bankers and THEN bail out the banks

[socialist_n_TN]

153. Nope. What he SHOULD have done

is jail the corrupt bankers and then BUY OUT the banks when the stock prices had dropped to bargain basement levels. And THEN used the socialized banks to loan money to REAL small businesses and people to spur the economy. I actually suggested this to Jim Cooper's economic advisor while this was going on. I even said put in a "sunset provision" if it was necessary to make folks feel comfortable.

Of course, it didn't happen and the cluster fuck we have now is the result.

[UnrepentantLiberal]

87. He's a Republican. You can yell at me all you like.

[whathehell]

126. Cutting Social Security and Medicare would signal the "end" of the Democratic Party for me

It would be the first true step in the dismantling of the New Deal,

which is, of course, what the Repukes have wanted since it's inception

by Franklin D. Roosevelt.

There is, IMO, no true "Democratic Party" if

these programs are put on the chopping block.

They are THE signature programs of the Democratic party.

When these go, I think we'll have to admit

that it's truly "over".

[Buns_of_Fire]

129. He seems to be both, actually. "Postpartisan," as it were.

That shining Kumbaya-land where people of both former-parties reach out and do what is best for Our Country.

A noble ideal, an honorable, Age-of-Aquarius scenario. And he seems to be clinging to it for all it's worth.

But it ain't gonna happen. Maybe someday, but sure-as-shit not today. And my beef is that I would think a smart, personable politician from the Chicago School would know that by now and have adjusted his tactics accordingly.

[Eddie Haskell]

143. He's surrounded himself with the people that wrote the ransom note.

Our party's been kidnapped.

[socialist_n_TN]

145. Economically, he IS a Republican

Right about where Reagan was. On social issues he's a little more left (not much), but when the economics become this fucked up, social issues don't mean much.

What's gay rights when it just means you've got the same right to be enslaved as the rest of the working class?

[The Big Vetolski]

290. Oh, stop making sense. You'll upset the gamblers at the horse

race track. :)

[Lifelong Protester]

8. As I mentioned on another post, I did write the WH just now.

I want to hear the details, but at the moment I am mighty upset.

[Coyote_Bandit]

9. I will vote for every Dem on my ballot

that I believe will serve to advance and protect my very pedestrian needs. But if I think they are going to sell me down the river then I'm going to seek out another Dem. And if there isn't another Dem who is willing to serve to advance and protect my needs then I'm going to seek out a progressive candidate. And if I can't find anyone who is willing to try to protect and advance my needs then I'm going to start saving my pennies in the hope of buying my way out of this fucked up country. And in the meantime I'm going to quit supporting those corporate interests and politicians who undermine my interests.

[lark]

203. EXACTLY my plan too

If the trojan horse president wants to cut the biggest programs that help working class folks and further enrich the already rich at our expense, I'm going into strict savings mode. Mom's 87 and won't move and I take care of her. Once she's no longer with us, I will max my credit cards with advances, take all the money out of my retirement plans, and MOVE the fuck out of here!

I'll still probably vote Dem as they aren't quite as bad, just almost. But I will certainly never give my time and money to another Dem who hasn't proved that she/he is a real progressive, and not just another false front operation.

[TheKentuckian]

10. I'm thinking the assuring him of our votes no matter what and scoffing at the idea of a primary

might be the exact way to exert no influence on the situation.

It is magical thinking to think there is a way to push and stay in line and march in formation.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

14. Exactly.

If he thinks we will vote for him no matter what, then where's the leverage?

There wouldn't be any.

[MissDeeds]

105. I could not agree more

Blind submission is no way to bring about change. Obama is acting as if he is either sure of our votes (regardless of what he does), or that he doesn't want to win a second term. If he continues to govern as a Republican, he should not count on getting Democratic votes.

[OHdem10]

11. It is getting close to time for a Third Party.

[Vanje]

60. Heck! Its getting close to time for a SECOND party.

We need an alternative to R and R-light.

[LLStarks]

13. I reject the assumption that cutting even a penny from entitlements is primary-worthy. nt

[Mojorabbit]

47. It is just one of many actions he has taken that .

goes against everything the party stands for.
The last straw for me if this really does happen.

[Wilms]

15. I voted for the other guy.

No! Not McCain.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFabLp-Jcbg

[Bluenorthwest]

19. The man held rallies with Ex Gay hate preachers and y'all

clamored to elect him. Now you cry sorry.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

22. No, I'm not sorry. Not a bit.

McCain/Palin would have been exactly the wrong choice.

I am angry at having been misled.

[defendandprotect]

29. Tons of democrats who would have been better candidates -- on the LEFT ....

which is the direction we need to go --

though the drumbeat of fear seems to keep repeating McCain/Palin to some rather than

GO LEFT, GO LEFT, GO LEFT --

Voting for the "lesser evil" only continues to move the party and the Congress to the RIGHT !!

[Fearless]

136. +1

[bahrbearian]

137. Are you sure things would be different with McCain? I'm no so sure

[defendandprotect]

27. We better start crying PLAN B -- or PRIMARY FOR 2012 -- !!

However, it will make no sense to put up another Koch Bros funded DLC member

and the party seems completely influenced and under the spell of Koch Bros. $$$ --

everyone pre-bribed and pre-owned -- and SILENCE bought --

the party turned upside down --

We have to have democrats from outside the party --

Someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders who I think has highest trust of any of our politicians -- ?

Even look for a democrat who isn't a regular politician if you wish --

How about Tom Hayden for VP -- we need two strong anti-war candidates!!

[NMMNG]

236. Some of us tried to warn everyone Obama was no liberal

And it went way beyond his pathological love affair with antigay bigots. We were declared haters of Hope and Change because we saw through the facade. Who's sorry now?

[donco]

21. is Howard Dean

available?Maybe Berni Sanders would like a new job.

[MissDeeds]

107. Great choices

I'd love to see either or both of them on the ticket.

[Honeycombe8]

23. Waste of time to primary him. Even the popular Ted Kennedy couldn't wrest the nomination

from the overly unpopular and sure-to-lose Carter. It just won't happen. All it would do is weaken the incumbent President even more, ensuring another Reagan.

Besides, I don't know of anyone that everyone could get behind, besides Obama. No one like a Kucinich or Nader or overly liberal person is going to get many votes in a general election, esp in this climate, even if he won a primary...which he wouldn't. (see my comment about Ted Kennedy)

Petitions are good. Letters to the White House. Making him wise as to what would happen to certain people, if he were to change SS or Medicare. Pointing out that removing the "can't negotiate drugs" provision from Medicare would save a ton of $$$ (that should've been removed already).

[defendandprotect]

34. Not true at all -- and it should have happened --

Looks like Ted Kennedy had been framed at Chappaquiddick to ensure that he could never

run for president -- that scandal prevented it --

But it would have been a rational decision vs Carter had Ted not been so threatened and

intimidated after the coup on his brothers -- JFK and RFK.

Obama couldn't be any weaker among the huge liberal voting bloc --

who are in danger of dropping out or voting for write-in's --

"Overly liberal" .... ? That sounds kinda DLC --

It's utter nonsense that Obama doesn't have a clue as to the damage he's done and is

heading for doing --

You think Obama will overturn the back room deals he made with Big Pharma and private

H/C industry -- if we ask him nicely?


:rofl:

[Chan790]

93. It's not 1980 redux, it's 1968 redux.

Our best win-share is to primary him, not keep him.

[MissDeeds]

109. +100000

[Fearless]

140. Kennedy wasn't popular in the places he needed to be. No dice.

Although I do think the greatest mistake this nation has made in the last 40 years, other than Bush, is not having ran him against Reagan.

[RaleighNCDUer]

222. Making him wise as to what would happen to certain people, if he were to change SS or Medicare.

The ONLY point I think he might listen to, would be HIM being the "certain people", and if he touches SS or Medicare he WILL be primaried.

[The Big Vetolski]

291. Who is more liberal? Reagan or Obama? I forget. nt

[defendandprotect]

24. At least seniors have to unite and organize -- not thru AARP which is an insurance agency...!!

If there was anything left of the Democratic Party it would be organizing to

SAVE THE NEW DEAL -- but I don't see that happening ---

Koch Bros funding of DLC and their money rolling around the Dem Party and in

Dem candidates pockets has turned the party upside down --

[KoKo]

25. We can't, Peggy. The pudits on Dem side are saying he HAS to Compromise

to get Re-Elected. If we can't deal with the Compromise we will get Bachman for President and more Clarence Thomas types on Supreme Court. Our Democratic Party is saying this has to go down to the wire and we need to compromise because the alternative is too terrible. Shutting down Govt. for Deficit when we have an Election to Win...would be too devastating for the Party to take.

It's what I read everywhere across what "used to be the Liberal Dem Blogosphere." (Remember that the Radical Left is now trashed and are not believable.)

Sad...and devastating to some of us...but it is what it is and we are to accept it.

[defendandprotect]

37. No one has to accept this -- that's absolute nonsense -

Obama has cooperated from Day #1 in the framing of these situations --

in resurrecting the GOP from the ashes after 2008 -- in tossing his mandate aside --

in the selection of his team and his policies --

It's all BS --

[KoKo]

42. I know that...you know that...but there's really no alternative...and that's the problem...

...just saying.

[defendandprotect]

49. No alternative? Are you kidding? End tax cuts for rich, cut MIC budget, end the wars -- !!!

It's also time to start recognizing that these are problems which Obama himself

helps to construct --

[WorseBeforeBetter]

55. And raise the fucking cap! (n/t)

[Brickbat]

26. As long as people resist coordinated direct action, this will keep happening.

[defendandprotect]

38. Continuing to vote for "the lesser evil" will continue to move party/Congress to the right ...!!

[RaleighNCDUer]

223. The People, United, Will Never Be Defeated

And that is why so much effort is put into promoting disunity.

If certain Dems put half the effort into attacking Republicans and their policies that they put into attacking the left wing of their own party, we would never lose an election.

[EndElectoral]

28. He needs fillibustered if social security is cut. And primaried!

[Odin2005]

31. General Strike.

Shut the whole damn country down.

[lonestarnot]

58. Looks like they might do it for us.

[Fearless]

144. If there are any jobs left to strike from...

Seriously though... I think a nationwide buying freeze would scare them too... Everyone quits buying all non-essential items and doesn't start again until we have what we want... It'd be good for personal debt too.

[socialist_n_TN]

154. "It'd be good for personal debt too"

Yep. All the working class USED to have was the strike. Nowdays though, one benefit of our consumer economy is that we have debt. We withold payments along WITH our labor.

[juajen]

32. Answer: Wheelchair Revolution

We need the elderly and disabled in D.C. just sitting there, staring up at the WH. They will not hit the elderly with tasers and riot police, and certainly won't arrest us. Where in hell would they put that many wheelchairs. We need some big bucks to provide transportation and nurses, complete with IV's and white uniforms. We really do need to do this. Our lives are coming to a close. We really have nothing to lose. We need to fight for our children. Many of us are helping our unemployed children even as we speak with our ss funds. Who will help their children?

[suffragette]

148. ^ THIS I think this is the one option that could have impact

We can't sway through donations/lowering donations (Citizens United saw to that) and I don't see anyone willing to run against him in a primary who would have a chance.

Such a movement gathered in DC and in state capitals at the same time would force coverage in the media and put strong human faces on what the politicians can and are currently speaking about in abstract terms.

It's worth remembering that the March on Washington and MLK's "I have a Dream" speech occurred with a Democrat sitting in the White House.

We need this type of social action now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

224. Oh, you Pollyanna.

You REALLY think they won't hit the elderly with tasers and riot police?

[madfloridian]

33. We can't.

He has not listened on any issue yet. He's in the WH bubble with William Daley.

[1StrongBlackMan]

35. Easy ...

We wait to there is some indication that he is going to cut SS.

[WCGreen]

36. I don't think he will go that far...

But I have my doubts about the people that he surrounds himself with...

[defendandprotect]

39. NO difference between Obama and his teammates -- that's why he picked them ... !!

Their way is the way Obama wanted to go -- we have to stop trying to delude

ourselves as to this reality --

And coincidentally it's the Koch funded DLC way -- all the way to "Third Way" and

PPI and the PNAC --

[CaliforniaPeggy]

53. I wonder about those people too...

[Poll_Blind]

40. I'm going to be a downer and say:

That while technically, there might be some avenue out of this, there is no real path out. Not really.

Peggy, this is like you and I were out driving in the mountains in winter and the car broke down and you asked me, as we were walking the 25 miles to the next gas station if we were going to make it. "Technically." I'd say. And continue "But probably...not really."

Like that.

If the President wants to put Medicare/Medicade/Social Security, etc., on the line we are shit out of luck to stop it.

But please, let me continue and explain why I think that: The concept of Progressiveism within the Democratic party is in shambles. The President has only a patina of Progressive philosophy to him- now that he's in office, anyway. And while there are some Democratic members of the House and Senate who energetically support the defense of our Social Security, for instance, they simply are on the losing side, numbers-wise. They couldn't even muster enough votes (although the vote was rushed to thwart them) to call for new leadership instead of Nancy Pelosi.

There will only be two conventional choices in 2012: Republican Nutcase or...Obama. The President is too far gone at this point to change the direction of his presidency. He has made his decisions, his choices, and he has cast his presidency in a certain way, in a certain tone, in which I am convinced it will remain.

This is regardless of what the American people think about this or that. Their opinion will matter the absolute least in 2012. They will get to pick the type of wood the axe handle is made out of as it chops their safety net apart.

PB

[nc4bo]

56. I know you're addressing CaliforniaPeggy

but after reading your post I've never felt more like I was stepping off a long cliff straight into an abyss than just now.

Wow. Depressing and more than a bit discouraging.

Just wow.

[Poll_Blind]

59. I can help you maybe not feel so bad, because I went through the exact same thing.

You get through this by focusing on what you're going to do to keep you and your family/loved ones eating/healthy/warm. I know it sounds odd, but the moment I started to seriously shift my attention from "Why?!?! How can this happen with a Democratic President for Chrissakes?!!?" to "Ok, fuck that noise. I can't do anything about it. How about I start focusing on what I can do."

And I am, but I'm not interested in talking about that. I'm working on a plan to make sure we're all happy and healthy and as little impacted by all this shit, and yet to happen shit, as possible. And in that, there is much more certainty because I'm in control, I'm calling the shots and I'm doing what some of my representatives aren't: Working hard to make sure my family has some kind of...something to hold onto as we watch other people or even other groups/classes/strata fall lower and lower down the drain.

PB

[nc4bo]

63. I know you're right

I just know it's true and thanks for the putting my feet back on the ground. Sometimes I read the news here and my mind just blows a fuse, red hot anger and disappointment that I helped elect someone I had so much faith in. He had the potential to do so much good even under horrible circumstances...ugh. I never dreamed I'd be praying that he does no harm!

Anyway, thanks for the sober-up moment PB, it's appreciated and was needed. Now I promised myself I'd compose a letter that I put off this weekend and I need to get some seeds started for the fall and clear some weeds out the garden and I have a family I love dearly and you are just so right about everything.

Thanks again :hug:

[kath]

82. PB (and others)- I'm feeling pretty desperate as well. I meant to ask the question when the topic

came up a few weeks back -- some of you talk about planning to minimize the damage to you and your family as the shit continues to hit the fan. What sorts of things are you planning? If you don't want to discuss it publicly, could you PM me? I have this feeling that things are going to get really really bad, and I really don't know what to do to protect me and mine as much as possible. Trying not to do a total freak-out. Very scary times we're living in, and it's now crystal-clear that this President doesn't give a shit about the people in this country, nor do most of the "Democrats".

[tavalon]

189. Exacty, I spend much more time getting my disaster kits together and working locally for local

candidates.

[socialist_n_TN]

155. Join a communist group near you

or start one. They are the ONLY ideology that is and ALWAYS has been unabashedly and unashamedly on the side of the working class. It's better than stepping off a long cliff. At least you would be doing SOMETHING.

[nc4bo]

171. Oh yea, my Mccain/Palin neighbors would be all for that.

That stuff won't fly in this red county sorry. Dems don't even fly in this red county but I'll be sure to stop by the nearest rebel flag bearing trailer and suggest the idea to them.

And if I have to hear how the "n" isn't even an American and how Obama funnels money to his Kenyan brother one more time, I'm going to scream.

I worked my ass off in 08 and hubby and I gave til we couldn't anymore. Took alot of shit and knocked on a whole heap of doors that had no business being listed on any Democratic GOTV list much to my horror.

Will I do it this election, nope.

I will however take PB's suggestion and plan for our family's needs and make sure we're ok because obviously those in power don't really give a crap whether we live or die.

[socialist_n_TN]

289. Well I feel your pain. I'm in Tennessee......

nm

[Telly Savalas]

68. The Amercian people are the ones that vote

This is an electorate that collectively thought in 2010 that our nation's legislative branch should be put in the hands of a far Right party. If the American people actually gave a shit about sensible governance this wouldn't be the case, and people like Palin and Bachmann wouldn't be given serious consideration as candidates. Yes, the media does fuel this to a degree, but the media is to a large degree demand driven. If the public decided that watching a bunch of fuckwits that don't know what they're talking about was a waste of time, the media might actually attempt to broadcast something resembling news.

Most Americans are fundamentally good and decent people. There's just a lot of them that are either very disengaged or have crazy political ideas or both. It's undeniable that there are institutional obstacles to getting a progressive agenda advanced, but it's bullshit to think that a vast majority of Americans feel the same way about politics as DU but for some mysterious reason choose to never vote that way.

Those are the cards we're dealt, and in such an environment quality representation will be the exception not the rule. Rather than endlessly bitching about things or falling into despair, it would be much more productive to identify actions that can be taken in this environment which can lead to positive change. How do we find good candidates and get them elected? How do we get the public more engaged and less politically nutty? If the answers to these questions are that it's hopeless, then following politics is a waste of time and posting here is irrational.

[Poll_Blind]

71. Read your post three times. Each time the reply was a little different but....

...all of them were dissatisfying. So I'll leave it at this: I found a good candidate. I got him elected. The public was engaged and filled with hope.

PB

[RaleighNCDUer]

227. That might all make sense, if we still lived in a democracy.

The fact that when polled on positions, the American people always come up center left, yet those same people somehow only manage to elect right or center-right representative argues that we no longer live in a democracy.

[Ignis]

79. "They will get to pick the type of wood..."

Incredibly chilling, but well said. :scared:

[rhett o rick]

178. There is a reason that the Republicans have only nut-cases running.

Our corp-overlords what the masses to see that even with a Democratic President we are screwed. If they get a Republican elected, the masses might revolt. But if they let a Democratic president screw us (whether his choice or not) they are breaking our will.

[Bryn]

41. George Carlin's rant: "And now they’re coming for your Social Security

money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street. And you know something? They’ll get it. They’ll get it all from you sooner or later 'cause they own this fuckin' place."

Didn't Obama eat with Wall Street boys recently?

[nc4bo]

46. Yea, I do believe that WE were on the menu.

One thing I'm sure of is that the Teabaggers don't want anyone messing with their SS either.

We all might wind up being united on this one thing like it or not.

[WinkyDink]

92. Geithner, anyone?

[mitchtv]

50. I think it's too late to stop him

besides , I don't think any of us could afford to be listened to. I think that the die is cast.

[defendandprotect]

51. It's never too late to stop fascism .... it's never to late to end wars, stop the MIC, tax rich --!!

[donheld]

54. I here you Peggy.

I don't have any ideas. It seems Washington no longer even cares what we say.
I get to feeling pretty hopeless somedays. All this crap is going on and it seems
like nobody in DC cares and most of the rest of the country isn't even paying
attention.

[donheld]

304. Oh my god look at that spelling!

[FreakinDJ]

61. HILARY CLINTON - 2012

[Poll_Blind]

66. Let it be noted that 1 hour 14 minutes after the OP was posted, FreakinDJ...

...pressed the red button.

:hide:

PB

[Chan790]

96. Clinton is the wrong choice here...

she'd likely be making the same decision in the end; she's just a better card-player and would be getting a better return on the cave-in. We need to not cave-in.

[Lasher]

127. I agree.

During the 2008 Presidential Primary I learned that Hillary and Obama have very similar positions on the issues. But you can't go by just that. Who would have dreamed back during the Primary that Obama would turn out like this?

[_ed_]

147. Sounds great

replace one warmongering corporatist with another one.

[Melissa G]

158. Do you HONESTLY believe she would be different on what we are worried about?

I don't.

I prayed Obama was to the left of her.
( Okay, I prayed not with a lot of hope, but Candidate Obama SAID he was to the left of her.)

If I'm trying to fix the mess Obama made, Hilary would not be my candidate. We need someone outside of the DLC.

[RaleighNCDUer]

228. Swap the New Democrat for the DLC.

Good move.

[The Big Vetolski]

293. At least spell her first name right before you self-destruct. nt

[EFerrari]

64. I don't believe we can. They all care even less about our opinion now

that they can have unlimited donations from secret donors.

[senseandsensibility]

65. Step back and think about this thread title for a moment....

really think about it. How do we stop Obama from touching our social security? How do we stop a DEMOCRATIC president from touching our social security? Mind boggling.

[Vanje]

67. Um..The same way we stopped him from going to war with Libya?

??

[Safetykitten]

78. Who would of thought that possible. Amazing situation we are in.

[aquart]

70. Primary.

[inna]

73. Past sense - not only the SS has been "touched", it's been molested

thanks to this president's entirely reactionary and deeply troubling, to say the least, stance on this and related issues.

Not that he has anything to do at all with authoring this agenda, he just has enabled them beyond their wildest expectations.

:nuke:

[emsimon33]

74. Obama is simply a sell-out

He cares nothing for the American people, just for himself and his country club set.

He needs to step down and let a real Democrat run.

[emsimon33]

75. Obama is simply a sell-out

He cares nothing for the American people, just for himself and his country club set.

He needs to step down and let a real Democrat run.

[Bryn]

77. Yes!

Please do step down, Obama. If you want to worship the golden calf called Wall Street instead of doing good for We The People you have no business being a democrat. Any "democrat" who belongs to DLC isn't a democrat at all. Rather they call us The Democratic Party "Liberal", "Professional Left". We're not stupid! We simply want the Democratic Party back.

Read what wikipedia says about DLC:

"The Democratic Leadership Council was a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation<1> that, upon its formation, argued the United States Democratic Party should shift away from the leftward turn it took in the late 1960s, 1970s, and 1980s. The DLC hails President Bill Clinton as proof of the viability of third way politicians and as a DLC success story."

No wonder Bill Clinton recently screeched "give corporations tax cuts". Look what he did to us .. NAFTA & did away with Glass Steagall Act, probably caused the economic collapse in addition to Bush's wars and tax cuts. Koch Brothers approve of DLC and gives them money. So is DLC our friend?

[emsimon33]

313. Clinton, the best true Republican president since... .

[Divine Discontent]

76. I wrote. I guess if we all write, it may help. One never knows, dear CP.

[Divine Discontent]

80. if he agrees to cuts on most people, I cannot see how it won't result in him losing, and causing us

to have even less representation in D.C., because he's light years better than the GOP. He just can't agree to cuts that effect non-wealthy people. I can agree that medicare/SS should be cut for wealthy people, hey, they should be grateful they ended up with a nice retirement, and be glad their taxes helped secure this country.

[JDPriestly]

83. We need to primary him!!!!!

[slay]

85. +1

badly!

[slay]

84. Let it be known it will cost him the election

and even then i don't think he'll care. i think we're fucked. :( :hug:

[kickysnana]

86. Primary him! n/t

[myrna minx]

90. We've been sold out and I feel sick.

I don't trust the President or the Dems at all anymore. :puke:

[jeanmarc]

91. Obama is a trojan horse

He never was who we thought he was, but I had no idea he had the ability to grow into a full out turncoat.

Obama is really George H. W. Bush on the inside.

[VeryConfused]

94. Here it appeared to be the Republicans going after those programs

boy am I glad there's DU to fix my reality

[ProfessionalLeftist]

95. Dear Mr. President (every person on DU ought to be writing to whitehouse.gov)

EXAMPLE (write your own letter - and don't give me the "oh nobody reads thoooose" whine. Just do it. It may not help, but it can't hurt can it?)
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Dear Mr.President,

This is to inform you that if you in any way touch Social Security or Medicare in the form of cuts, including any more "tax holidays" (those are cuts) - you WILL lose my vote.

You may call the cuts something else, such as implementing "chained CPI" - or you may call them "tax holidays" - but they're still cuts.

Cut these programs in any way, anymore and lose millions of votes, mine included. It's that simple.

Most Americans *know* that it is simply unnecessary to touch these programs other than expanding and increasing them. It's morally reprehensible to cut them and economically unnecessary when the richest do not pay their fare share, when we spend trillions of dollars on multiple unnecessary wars, and when corporate tax loopholes and subsidies
eat up billions if not trillions more of our tax dollars.

OUR money is being stolen and given away to the rich and big corporations while our own lives, health, and retirements are sacrificed.

I know that Republicans have been chomping at the bit to decimate and eliminate these programs ever since they were created.

The way they can do that without taking the fallout for it themselves from voters -- is to get a "Democrat" to do it. And you are falling right into their trap. I had considered you more intelligent than that.

From you and every other Democrat on Capitol Hill without exception, I EXPECT a strong, principled stance on this. Absent that, I've no reason to vote for you - any of you.

Democrats do *not* cut Social Security or Medicare. Ever. And I will not vote for a Republican hiding behind a "D".

I've written a similar message to you before. I presume you or your staff received it and that they are tallying these responses.

I'm not alone in this sentiment, I assure you, whether you hear from all who share my feelings or you don't, know that I am certainly not alone.

Touching these programs in any way other than expanding and increasing them ie: raising the 106,000 cap on social security - is unnecessary and unforgivable. Period.

And I'm sorry to say that if you do so you will absolutely lose my support, my small financial and time contributions to your campaign, and my vote.

After all, if these programs are to be cut and decimated in myriad ways, privatized, vouchered, turned into block grants, or otherwise strangled, we may as well let the Republican candidate win. No difference.

Good Day Mr. President,

[eridani]

259. They may not read them, but they sure the fuck COUNT them n/t

[ProfessionalLeftist]

97. 172,000 members on DU

If they all wrote a letter to whitehouse.gov about this issue, you know...that might get a little attention. Maybe not but again, it can't hurt can it?

[Chan790]

98. Not as much attention as a demand for an ABO Democratic nominee in 2012.

ABO. Anybody But Obama.

We don't need to actually nominate anybody else, just make it clear that his chummy kowtowing to the RW of his own party and big business is over. If he wants a second term, it's time he learned how to go left. Mr. President, back away slowly from the idiotic ideas about SS, Medicare, Organized Labor, Gay Marriage, Economics & the Permanent War. Mr. President, your pragmatic centrism ends today or you can count out a second term.

Sincerely,

All those non-moderates you think have no place else to go but to vote for you in 2012.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

103. Who and how can we get someone in his face ASAP? n/t

We can do both, write letters AND primary him. Both barrels.

[Stuart G]

100. Think about this.He won't touch it....The deal will not go thru...why? because...

The deal will rely on the end of the Bush tax cuts. ,,,,,,,''(social security, ets, will not be touched ..
Puke leadership will not accept end of Bush tax cuts.....plain and simple

At the end of the day, even though Obama offered, the Pukes will reject, and we are back at square one. no deal
Debt limit crises brought on by the Pukes...(I believe limit will be raised anyway, Wallstreet wants it)

Obama can say he tried his best, was ready to compromise...
blame Pukes, get reelected.

Yes, it looks like Obama has caved, he may ideed have caved, but in the end..that cave depends on end of Bush tax cuts..
nope won't happen..

.maybe social security is safe after all.. by default

[bahrbearian]

150. Yea real comforting

Once SS is cut there is no going back .
Tax rates can always be changed.. They will give up the Tax Cuts , then just raise them later.

[FLyellowdog]

213. Thank you for giving me a little hope. nt

[OwnedByFerrets]

101. I wish I knew the answer to your question

[leeroysphitz]

106. We can't. Can you say Trojan Horse? n/t

[ProfessionalLeftist]

108. Well I've suggested writing en masse to whitehouse.gov

which is something we can do IMMEDIATELY - NOW. But - no one's interested in that.

Primarying him is great - but who and how? We don't have time to implement that before he's made some stinking buttkissing backroom deal with Boner. Everyone says do it but no one says who or how or when.

So that leaves option #1 - writing letters.

Hello?

[Eddie Haskell]

166. Already Done

I plan on calling the party.

[Doctor_J]

We can't. It's over

He was elected on a pack of lies and some nebulous FDR-sounding rhetoric to carry out was Bush could not - put the last nails in the coffins of SS, Medicare, Medicaid, and public schools.

[Cleita]

110. You have two hours to telephone the White House

and boo! him. Telephone:

Phone Numbers
Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

[Doctor_J]

113. One thing we can do is stop believing that petitions and e-mails and phone calls

will change anything. It won't

[Cleita]

114. It's all we have sadly and if we don't register our

displeasure then for sure he will think he's on the right track.

[LarryNM]

120. Sadly Both Are True

Emails, petitions, calls, letters won't change things But if we don't the Admin will use it as an excuse.

[RaleighNCDUer]

233. And if they get a million letters, they'll just say

"See? Only a million oppose us! 309 million people support us!"

[rosesaylavee]

206. Online form is offline right now

Currently on hold to leave a message at the WH.

[nc4bo]

244. I hope that means there was an email "b*mb" so huge it crashed that server to smitherines! nt

[placton]

112. SIMPLE ANSWERS TO SIMPLE QUESTIONS

we cannot stop this man - he is the trojan horse of right wingers

[NorthCarolina]

115. You can't. Nobody can. I suspect this is the task he was groomed to tackle

from the get-go.

[One_Life_To_Give]

118. Have lots more babies?

Get us back to 7 paying in for each person taking out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

234. You'd get the same result by giving citizenship to all the undocumented workers -

and have fewer diapers to deal with.

[yardwork]

119. Write and call the White House and Congress. They are counting on us to make noise.

This is part of the political process. Obama leaks info that will rile up his base, because he needs his base to make noise in order for him to win this battle. That's how it works.

Express the fact that you are seriously upset.

[RaleighNCDUer]

238. Yeah - we've seen that work so well with him on health care reform

and eliminating the tax cuts.

[alfredo]

121. It will be congress that decides to cut SS, Obama can't vote

on it. It will be on McConnell, Boehner, and Cantor . The final decision is up to Congress. Boehner has the choice between protecting the rich or the poor and aged. Boehner knows that if he allows tax rates for millionaires and billionaires to rise, he will face a well funded primary opponent. So will he put his job on the line for the working class? Hell No!

McConnell will filibuster any deal that includes any tax hike on his wealthy friends and benefactors. His friends are hoarding trillions, waiting for the default so they can pick up public property for pennies on the dollar.

[daleanime]

130. Hon, I don't know....

what the american citizen wants doesn't seem to count for anything nowadays. I fear for all of us.

[Lasher]

135. Once he was inaugurated it was too late to stop him. He is what he is, not what he seemed back then

We need to primary him to stop him from doing any more damage. I decided in December that I would vote for a ham sandwich if it runs in the Democratic Primary against Obama.

[ljm2002]

138. In my opinion we are too late...

...he is hell-bent on his grand compromise and he'll get it. As usual, the cuts in spending will be offset (if at all) by about 10% tax "increases" (in other words, a few small perks will be taken away from the wealthy).

Mind you, I have to say, if he agrees to actual cuts in Social Security, I am off the reservation. Can't get behind a Democratic President who would gut one of the crowning achievements of our party, not to mention something that created a much more humane society.

[Raymond82]

141. Just last year Obama PROMISED

'That agenda is wrong for seniors, it's wrong for America, and I won't let it happen. Not while I'm President. I'll fight with everything I've got to stop those who would gamble your Social Security on Wall Street. Because you shouldn't be worried that a sudden downturn in the stock market will put all you've worked so hard for - all you've earned - at risk. You should have the peace of mind of knowing that after meeting your responsibilities and paying into the system all your lives, you'll get the benefits you deserve.'

President Barack Obama
Weekly Radio Address
August 14, 2010

[Karmadillo]

160. Psych!

nt

[GillesDeleuze]

142. didn't you hear? the DLC is dead. We dont have to worry about republicrats

[salib]

152. Should not have elected him in the first place.

Snow job from the beginning. If you want a liberal/progressive President, you have to vote for one.

I think the bigger question is, how do we minimize the damage that Congress and the President are going to do? That one is answered in the usual way, and we all know about activism.

Longer term, we need to regroup and really get busy laying longer term foundations.

[Uben]

159. What alternative did we have?

None, zip, nada. Obama was the best choice for dems in the 08 elections. I was a Clinton supporter but switched to Obama once he won the nomination. And, I'm glad he won!
HE is not cutting social security. That is a myth being circulated by republicans and ignorant dems. HE stated he wanted to bolster the program to keep it solvent without CUTTING BENEFITS.

Everyone has their own opinions, but I strongly support Obama for re-election. HE is definitely the best president since CLinton and far outpaces any republican in modern history.

I don't know who you think would do a better job, but I know of no one in the democratic party I consider to be even close to Obama. But then again, I have never considered myself a progressive or a flaming liberal. I am conservative on economic issues and liberal on social issues. I have never, and will never, vote for a republican. I think the whole party sucks to high heaven.
I think we need austerity measures passed and they are never popular, but we cannot continue to spend more than we take in. So, I like what Obama is doing.....cutting spending.

[RaleighNCDUer]

246. If you vote for Obama you ARE voting for a republican.

I don't see how the evidence could be clearer.

HE stated he wanted to bolster the program to keep it solvent without CUTTING BENEFITS. - ...but those big bad republicans will MAKE him do it.

'Austerity' means the rich stay rich, while the poor bail out the country. It's a supply-side code phrase. It doesn't work.

[Uben]

314. That's your opinion...I like mine better

Some folks could be dying of thirst in the desert, and they couldn't see the water because it was raining too hard.

[RaleighNCDUer]

316. And some people are being pissed on, and call it rain. nt

[pam4water]

156. Primary changer!

[ooglymoogly]

306. We just have to get moving on this

Viable candidates are sending out feelers all the time, Bernie Sanders comes to mind but there are others. We just have to seize upon one or two and go for life and death on it; because THAT IS WHAT IT IS.

[joeybee12]

164. Sadly, I think it's too late...the only way he'll "get it' is when he loses in 2012...

I see that happening.

[FiveGoodMen]

165. Turns out that the '08 primaries were our last chance to do that.

Both of the front-runners were really pukes in Dem clothing.

We needed a good third choice.

[IndyMaine]

167. Jesse Ventura could actually win

His political views are similar to Ron Paul's, without the racist ties or corporate/Ayn Rand loyalties. Yes I know, he believes in UFOs (just like Jimmy Carter and a lot of highly-respected military people, astronauts and scientists do). But he's very likeable, his appeal crosses party lines and he'd get a LOT of votes from people who'd otherwise vote Republican.

[tomm2thumbs]

175. an interesting way of looking at it

there are times when I hear him, know he doesn't back down, and realize that sometimes you have to have been in a fight in order for other people to believe you will really NOT back down. He carries that on his shoulders.

[onenote]

226. not even the remotest chance of that happening

[s-cubed]

170. CALL the White House NOW. 202 456 1111

The line is very busy today, and the volunteers have volunteered that there are a lot of people who don't like Obama conceding everything.

[dana_b]

217. done. Others who will call need to be patient.

it took me over an hour to get through and they have very little time so be concise and quick.

[Enrique]

174. call your Senators

especially Barbara Boxer.

[rhett o rick]

179. LOL. Our Senators wouldnt stop Bush from all his plundering, why do you think they will stop

Pres Obama.

[Enrique]

181. self interest

dems have a winning issue for 2012: GOP wants to kill entitlements, the Dems are committed to preserving it. If they go along with Obama, they lose that issue.

[rhett o rick]

185. They cant win if they buck the Democratic Machine. nm

[Enrique]

193. tell them to support Kent Conrad's plan

he's about as machine as they come.

[rhett o rick]

180. Dear Peggy. We can neither stop Obama nor primary him. We are in the throes of an

oligarchy. Those that wield power will stop at nothing to retain their power. We need a new Declaration of Independence.

[Major Hogwash]

186. This is just talk.

Nice little flaming thread you've got going here.

LoL

[CaliforniaPeggy]

194. I'm so glad you're enjoying it.

:eyes:

[Recursion]

187. Why don't we want means-tested Social Security?

I've never understood that. Don't give me "that makes it easier for Republicans to cut later"; they don't seem to have a problem now.

[BOG PERSON]

195. internet petitions!

twitter + facebook campaigns to save social security!

emailing a form letter to your congressperson!

a lolcat write-in campaign!

[BOG PERSON]

201. NM

[cascadiance]

196. Find a way to get rid of Clarence Thomas NOW!

The one thing that Obama has now to keep him as a candidate where he thinks he can take the left for granted is the Supreme Court. If Thomas leaving somehow forces him to decide on a replacement NOW, first of all it will force him to select a progressive justice to replace him. If he doesn't select a progressive, then he's just proven that he NEEDS to be primaried to America, and that along with the other screw ups he's had with his base will solidify that to happen in time for the election. And he will no longer have that card if he's shown that he doesn't know how to play it even when running for election. He will show that he can't be trusted after he's elected to select reasonable replacements for the court either.

If he puts in a damn good progressive, and can see how well that helps him with his base, then perhaps he can show som gonads on other issues and make commitments to fixing the mistakes he's made in a second term with a more democratic congress.

And since the court balance would either already be shifted to the left (a good thing), or prove that he won't shift it to the left (a bad thing), the point is that the card will already be played, and we won't have as much to "lose" to get another candidate in to replace him.

[RaleighNCDUer]

248. Somehow I think that wouldn't do much good. He's so intent on 'compromise'

that I think he'd nominate a silent batshit corrupt misogynist right winger just to 'preserve the balance'.

[cascadiance]

252. But then we would KNOW we need to replace him BEFORE the election!

... because he will have proven that he won't do the job of fixing the balance on the court, and can't be trusted to do so after the 2012 election if he does get elected.

Now if he does get a good moderate, then that goal has already been achieved, without electing him. If he starts cleaning up his act in other ways and starts supporting his base for a change, then I'll get behind him, but if he continues the "bipartisan" capitulation BS, then the roadmap should be a lot clearer for what we need to do, as difficult a challenge that may be. But with it being clearer, I think it makes reaching that goal of getting a real progressive in office that much more achievable then with time to rally people around someone that's a clearer choice for the betterment of this country.

[oldbanjo]

198. Anything that has been agreed on can be

changed with a Dem Congress. I'm sure that anything that Obama is doing is in the interest of the Country. He has to have this bill passed for the Worlds benefit, not just the US. These sorry Republican that would black male the country need to be replaced.

[ohheckyeah]

239. Black male the country? n/t

[nc4bo]

245. Black Male? um-hmm. nt

[stockholmer]

200. all the rest of the Democratic Party voters are now as taken for granted as the African-Americans

The USA Democrats will use the cudgel of 'Oh! you don't want a REPUBLICAN in office do you?' to scare most back onto the 2-party false paradigm plantation.

Without proportional representation, you will always get 2 parties who meld into one systemic controller blob of gelatinous tyranny.

The corrupted oligarchic systems divides and conquers so often that eventually it does not even have to divide, as they control BOTH options.

The puppet Obama supports a true social democratic agenda as much as a plate of overcooked pasta does. He just makes the sheeple feel good and trendy and progressive about the chattel yoke they are having slammed down upon their necks.

[somone]

208. It's Coke v. Pepsi politics

[BOG PERSON]

202. i can haz social security?

[B Calm]

207. Obama cutting SS is another Republican myth! Stop this drama now!

[stockholmer]

214. dream on, as you are clearly asleep at the switch, and lost in the Dems-good, Repubs-bad delusion

They are 2 sides of the same coin. Wake up! It is called continuity of agenda, and the agenda is your arse on a platter. It does not matter whether it is seasoned with tarragon or chives, it is still getting cooked.

[RaleighNCDUer]

250. Right. The 'tax holiday' which DEFUNDS SS never happened.

You've got a program which you say is in trouble, running out of money, so you TAKE MONEY AWAY FROM IT.

Just a republican myth.

[librechik]

209. sad to say, I don't think we have a representative democracy anymore

so any attempt to get Obama or the Congress to do anything they aren't already inclined to do is an excise in futility. Wish it weren't so. Just going through the motions.

[Hubert Flottz]

211. I'd vote for Brother Russ in a heartbeat!

[cascadiance]

253. Yep, I could recycle my old Feingold for president buttons from 2008...

[Hell Hath No Fury]

230. Put the fear of god into him -

Phone calls or handwritten letters to the White House, as well as the head of the DNC and Congressional leaders stating no money, no campaigning, no vote if these programs are touched. Period. And then follow-up with those actions.

They need to be made aware that, as Boxer once put it so well, actions have consequences.

You fuck with us on SS & Medicare? We will fuck with you.

[Scottybeamer70]

232. I think that in one of my earliest posts on this site,

I said something to the effect.......Don't be surprised if he switches to the republican party before the next election.
I may not have been too far off base after all.

[diane in sf]

242. I just sent a letter to the whitehouse and now I'm going to call my congress critters.

Dear Mr. Obama,
I volunteered and donated money to your previous campaign.

I read this morning that you are offering to make cuts in Social Security and Medicare. Why would you do this??? Even most Republicans don't want cuts in these programs. If this happens hundreds of thousands/ maybe millions of people will die before their time and the economy will suffer from the lack of their spending power. Why aren't we taking the salary ceiling off the FICA tax collection and getting rid of the bush tax cuts instead? These two things are easy, low-hanging fruit.

I can't imagine why anyone who is a Democrat would go after Social Security. Are you trying to throw the next presidential election to the Republicans?

I can't donate money to or volunteer for any candidate that won't protect these most fundamental programs and I'm sure many others feel the same. I'm only donating through Act Blue at this time. After having the displeasure of living through eight years of the bush presidency I have no desire to ever see a Republican or pseudo Republican anywhere near the White House again.

Please don't cut Social Security or Medicare.

As it is I'm going to have to work until I'm 70. If I can't make enough money from Social Security and my savings to live and I'm too old and tired to work, what's going to happen to me and the millions of others in my position?

The first third of the Baby Boomers lost 10 years of income relative to people 10 years younger and older than them and have suffered from a rotten job market most of their working lives, with the exception of the Clinton years. Defined pensions have gone away, the stock market has dropped and now the values of homes. This has made it difficult to save enough for retirement.

What do you expect people to live on in their old age? What's going to happen to all the young people who need jobs that old people can't afford to relinquish?

I never thought I would have to defend Social Security from a Democratic president.

Sincerely,
xxxxx xxxxx

[Clear Blue Sky]

249. Elect a real progressive in 2012...

[StarburstClock]

255. Too late, we looked the other way on torture camps, war, criminal banks so

it's time to eat shit people. That's what happens to a people who trade corruption for civility.

[Fearless]

257. I never thought I'd say this but... impeachment?

[Cleita]

272. Never mind. Since *w was never impeached and should

have been, Obama is untouchable. Not impeaching Bush/Cheney set a very bad precedent, but our Congressional dems knew that in case one of ours could be impeached.

[ooglymoogly]

263. Lets face it, baring a primary challenger, "0" is going to be in

for the next 6 years. Judging from the last two that spells disaster for "we the people".

If no challenger appears we must vote in a veto proof congress and try the same with the senate.

It has been lost in beltway loudspeak that half the bluedogs were voted out of office even with the shenanigans "0" and Rahm tried to play with Lincoln and the Ma. and other elections, with Rahm openly recruiting pugs to run as Dems, to get more bluedogs he could count on. It was to these all their support went, leaving progressives to scrounge for whatever support and monies they could raise on their own.

Barring primary challenge all our efforts, imo, should go to electing verifiable P-Dems and Independents like Bernie Sanders and Dennis K. to both the Senate and House. If we cannot get a veto proof House and Senate the future of SS and all connected programs are in dire jeopardy.

55 years of watching politics closely tells me crooked elections not withstanding, the dems are in for a landslide. It is up to us to make sure that landslide does not include more Trojan Horses than we already have who will always work behind the curtain for corporate America. (Bluedogs and Dino's).

[bowens43]

265. medicare and social security

were finished the day he took the oath of office.

[PuppyBismark]

266. This is the last Straw!

It is clear to me we do not have a Democrat in the White House. I have never felt so betrayed by a president I voted for. He clearly does not represent the people who elected him and I doubt he will get re-elected. If he does, how many people will show up in Washington to watch him get sworn in? Maybe, 5% of those for the first term.

[Cleita]

271. It's the Republicans we need to stop.

It's time to start showing up at their offices, their town halls, their speaking engagements and anywhere else they show their faces and perform loud protests. I'm going to make a point of doing it to my Repuke Rep every time he's here, even if I'm the only person who shows up with a sign and a cow bell.

[larwdem]

275. one

term one term i won't be knocking on any doors this time

:scared:

[kestrel91316]

276. There is nothing we can do. He is in office and will do what he damned well pleases.

[AngryOldDem]

277. How ironic.

Before I saw this thread I had made the comment that I wondered what Obama was going to give away to the GOP.

Sad that some of us think he'll fold like a house of cards when push comes to shove.

And I'm open to a primary challenge, and don't give me the old "How do you like President Bachmann" bullshit, either.

[lobezen]

278. Dear President Obama,

When I am 72 years old, living in a tent in a field on the outskirts of town, eating cat food and recycling aluminum and glass to make ends meet, I am fairly certain that I will NOT be thinking, “thank God the National deficit is ONLY $14,347,404,353,800.55!”

Send this type of message on a postcard to the White house or call and leave a similar message on the WH message line: 2024561111

[wundermaus]

279. Time for the American People to go on strike.

RIGHT F'ing NOW.
Don't buy anything but bare essentials.
Don't drive unless absolutely necessary.
Turn everything off unless you absolutely need to have it on.
Plant that victory garden.
Start talking to your family, friends, and neighbors.
Start organizing that revolution right now.

[leftcoastie]

280. I wanted

Howard Dean in 2004, and I would vote for him if he primaried the Pres. and if Obama sold SS and MC down the river. ..and unfortunately I don't see another "progressive" that could win. Yes I know Dean's not a progressive actually, but he seems a lot closer to my ideals than Obama does now.

[Le Taz Hot]

281. The only alternative I can discuss on this

board is to primary him.

[rosesaylavee]

283. Hi CP! This whole thing put me in a tail spin too... but this link made more sense

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/07/992060/-A-Non-Hysterical-Progressive-Analysis-of-so-called-Social-Security-Cuts-on-the-Table

I do not remember when I lost saw this poster over here as I am not so much but what he/she says makes sense to me. Hope it helps you too.

rosesaylavee

[rosesaylavee]

284. Hi CP! This whole thing put me in a tail spin too

... but this link made more sense...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/07/992060/-A-Non-Hysterical-Progressive-Analysis-of-so-called-Social-Security-Cuts-on-the-Table

I do not remember when I lost saw this poster over here as I am not so much but what he/she says makes sense to me. Hope it helps you too.

rosesaylavee

[unkachuck]

294. write-in Howard Dean for president!....n/t

[marlakay]

295. I emailed both of my dem senators today

And told them to stay tough no matter what the president wants. I live in wa state and i can tell you social security is one issue the republicans dont even mess with here.

[Thumper79]

298. What makes me so furious is

that Obama makes promises like "Social Security and Medicare are non-negotiable." "I will not touch Social Security." I will not touch Medicare." It's the constant disappointment that he blows off what he promised. It would be easier to take if he just never made those promises when he KNOWS there is a possibility he'll be "forced" to change his mind.

I'm really afraid that Obama will not be reelected if he cuts into these programs. The majority of Americans want those programs to be OFF the 'table.' If he goes back on his word that is going to piss off a lot of Americans. A poll was already taken on whether people would be more likely or less likely to vote for Obama if he cuts Medicare or Social Security. A majority in Ohio, Missouri, Montana and Minnesota will be less likely to vote for a Rep., a Sen. AND Obama if they supporting cutting Medicare and Social Security. Over 58% in Ohio say they are less likely to vote for Obama. He's in trouble if he blows off these people.

[20score]

301. For over a year and a half it's been obvious that he needs someone to challenge him from the left.

Al Gore would be the best one, followed by Dean, Sanders and Feingold.

The people who stick by him no matter what and excuse every capitulation are hurting the party and the country.

Like I used to ask the Bushies who remained loyal to a fault, "Is there any place where you would draw a line and stand up for what's right?"

[onenote]

308. if its so obvious why haven't any of those you mentioned even hinted at a challenge

I guess they're not as smart as you.

[20score]

311. That was funny! Thanks for the laugh.

[lib2DaBone]

307. Obama needs to do the right thing.. Not run for a 2nd term..

So much damage has been done.