Naomi Klein: Climate change and disaster in Montana

[MiaCulpa]

The flooding of the Yellowstone River and the oil spill in the riverbed are connected, and the burning of fossil fuels is the key.

"We're a disaster area," Alexis Bonogofsky told me, "and it's going to take a long time to get over it."

Bonogofsky and her partner, Mike Scott, are all over the news this week, telling the world about how Montana's Exxon Mobil pipeline spill has fouled their goat ranch and is threatening the health of their animals.

But my conversation with Bonogofsky was four full days before the pipeline began pouring oil into the Yellowstone River. And no, it's not that she's psychic; she was talking about this year's historic flooding.

"It's unbelievable," she said. "It's like nothing I've experienced in my lifetime. It destroyed houses; people died; crops didn't get in the fields…. We barely were able to get our hay crop in."

Everyone agrees that the two disasters — the flooding of the Yellowstone River and the oil spill in the riverbed — are connected. According to Exxon officials, the high and fast-moving river has four times its usual flow this year, which has hampered cleanup and prevented their workers from reaching the exact source of the spill. Also thanks to the flooding, the oiled water has breached the riverbanks, inundating farmland, endangering animals, killing crops and contaminating surface water. And the rush of water appears to be carrying the oil toward North Dakota.

Government and company officials have also speculated that the flooding may even have caused the spill in the first place. Recent testing showed the pipeline was buried five to eight feet under the riverbed, but officials suspect that raging water may have exposed the pipe, leaving it vulnerable to fast-moving debris.

So the flooding may have caused the pipeline spill. But here is the really uncomfortable question: Did the pipeline cause the flooding? Not this one particular pipeline, of course, but all the pipelines, and all the coal trains, and all the refineries and the power plants they supply? Was the flooding that has made the oil spill so much worse caused by the burning of oil and other fossil fuels? Put bluntly, do these dual disasters have the same root?

Full article here:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-klein-climate-oil-spill-20110707,0,3491774.story

[Mendocino]

1. The Yellowstone is the longest

undammed river in the country outside of Alaska. Originating in the national park of the same name it flows about 700 unfettered miles to it's confluence with the Missouri. A lifeline of the northern plains.... Now it's just another sewer.

[amborin]

6. so sad

by the way, Cosumnes, in CA, is also undammed but probably not nearly as long

[defendandprotect]

2. This is Global Warming ... it will continue to increase in numbers of events and severity ....

Anyone see the news story today or yesterday on the dust cloud in

Phoenix, Arizona -- immense --

Didn't pick up the story so I hope I have that right --


For those who don't know -- Global Warming had a 50 year delay in our feeling

its effects -- though the glaciers were melting --

In other words, we are now only feeling the effects of human activity up to about 1960 --

1960 -- !!! Imagine all we did after that time --


When we HEAT the atmosphere we cause chaotic weather -- in the end no one knows how all

of this will compound -- however, it will bring droughts/floods, storms, hurricanes,

cyclones, tornados -- and EARTHQUAKES --

Earthquakes also generate more volcanic activity --

Earthquakes will increase in number and severity as all the other weather events will.

Global Warming is capable of alterning weather systems -- wind patterns --


We need to NATIONALIZE the oil industry -- no private family or individuals should have

control of our natural resources -- any of them


HOWEVER, the MIC uses 80% of our oil -- no oil/no war --

[The Doctor.]

3. Not sure about that earthquake thing.

There may be lots of ice in a melting glacier, but tectonic plates are a bit more massive the ice that sits there.

Any links to anything reputable?

[defendandprotect]

4. You think the tectonic plates don't react when a glacier the size of MANHATTAN falls?

or those the size of Rhode Island?

Keep in mind that the water then is pressure on other tectonic plates --


Yes -- there are quite a few links and links to earlier discussions of this on DU --

you can also check the DU archives -- and google for yourself --

but as I mention in one of these links, the original way that came upon the info was

via a secret Pentagon memo to W in 2004 which original indicated that earthquakes would

also be triggered by Global wArming. After a few years, "earthquakes" was scrubbed.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4837036&mesg_id=4838408

http://www.livescience.com/7366-global-warming-spur-earthquakes-volcanoes.html

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=617007&mesg_id=621162

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4837036&mesg_id=4837639

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2775162/recent_earthquakes_may_herald_more.html?cat=58

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4876843&mesg_id=4878865

[The Doctor.]

5. What I said was 'I'm not sure'.

As far as I have known tectonic plates are many orders of magnitude more massive than glaciers. I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm sure it is. Just haven't run the models with the actual figures and dynamics in my head yet.

[defendandprotect]

7. . . . . and this may be a repeat . . . .

but if you have the time, I'd recommend you read Al Gore's Rolling Stone article --

he doesn't mention earthquakes or even the 50 year delay -

and his discussion of Global Warming is limited to page 2 --

but the rest of it is describing fascism in America without actually mentioning that

word -- complete with a Goebbels' style corporate press.


Also keep in mind re the earthquakes that the Mayor of Fukushima was trying to close down

the nuclear reactors there -- due to their age, but also largely due to Japanese scientists

reporting increasing seismic activity -- while the reactors were built to withstand only

earthquakes up to 7.0 --

Imagine how fortunate Japan and the world would be had that happened --

Overall, I'm sure we'd prefer the "whimper" to the "bang" --



Here's an article that another poster wrote on that -- you might be interested --

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x309897


:)

[XemaSab]

8. Over the long term, melting ice does cause many small earthquakes

Over the short term, it's not something we need to worry about.

(For example, Hudson Bay was caused by the pressure of the ice during the last ice age. Since the end of the Ice Age, that part of the continent has been rising.)

[Mendocino]

9. Isotonic rebound

As the ice melts, land slowly rises. When it rises minor earthquakes can occur.