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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:38 AM
Original message
Liberals Fear Obama Is Bungling Debt Talks
Michael Crowley, TIME

When President Obama meets at the White House on Thursday morning with Democratic and Republican leaders from Congress, all of Washington will be watching carefully for any hint of progress toward a deficit-reduction deal that can pave the way for a politically painful Congressional vote to raise the federal debt limit. But one group will be watching with a pronounced wariness: Obama’s liberal supporters (also known as his toughest critics). Stop me if you’ve heard this one before, but liberals are frustrated with Barack Obama. This will be familiar to anyone who has followed his presidency from health care reform (fight for a public option!) to terrorist detention (close Gitmo!) to Afghanistan (get out now!) to Wall Street oversight (appoint Elizabeth Warren!) In the case of the wrangling over the debt ceiling, the complaint–from activists, bloggers, and some Democrats in Congress–ranges from substance to tactics to messaging, but can be boiled down this way: You’re getting played. Here are the critique’s three basic components:

He Blew His Best Shot: Obama was directly confronted with this critique at Wednesday’s Twitter “town hall” event, in which he was shown a widely-retweeted question from New York Times columnist Nick Kristof. Picking up on a theme liberals have debated for months, Kristof asked whether “it was a mistake” that Obama failed to win a borrowing-limit increase as part of the grand deal he cut with Congressional Republicans last December. The idea is that Obama enjoyed more leverage over Republicans back then, because the GOP was obsessed with preventing a scheduled expiration of the Bush tax cuts. (They got their wish in the deal, in exchange for allowing an extension of unemployment benefits and a payroll tax break.) The question made the President sweat. Obama’s response to Kristof? “That wasn’t the deal that was available.” (Kristof was not impressed, later tweeting that there was no way to know because Obama never pressed the issue.)

He’s Ineptly Framed the Debate: Liberals have complained for a while now that Obama didn’t engage in the debate over the debt limit early enough or forcefully enough. As far back as April, Nation columnist Eric Alterman complained that it was “long past time for this president to get off the ropes and come out punching.” Others lament that Obama hasn’t used the bully pulpit more to explain the potentially horrendous consequences of a default. And some House Democrats, who have felt excluded from Obama’s talks with Republicans, have also complained that Obama is sending weak signals to the GOP and not mounting a robust fight for the left’s priorities. It’s true that liberals were heartened by Obama’s June 29 press conference, at which he cast GOP as champions of the super-rich and defenders of absurd corporate tax loopholes. (“Those who are hoping he will continue to make a strong moral argument in favor of ending should be pleased by what they heard,” wrote the Washington Post‘s Greg Sargent.) But many fear it was too little, too late.

He’s Caving In: Ultimately, what liberals fear most is that Obama, desperate for a deal that could improve his 2012 re-election prospects by boosting the economy and positioning him as a results-producing centrist for 2012, will agree to trillions of dollars in spending cuts–including trims to cherished entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid–in exchange for relatively puny tax revenue increases. (According to multiple reports this morning, Obama plans to put Social Security cuts squarely in play at Thursday’s meeting.) Some reports suggest that the ratio of spending cuts to tax increases could be on the order of five to one. Given that Obama’s original negotiating position was that the debt ceiling be raised without conditions–a stance he soon abandoned–it’s easy to see why the left feels dismayed. That’s particularly true when you consider that the nation’s borrowing limit has been raised dozens of times by multiple presidents, none of whom made anything like the substantive policy concessions that Obama is now discussing. The New Republic‘s Jonathan Chait argues that Obama has proven himself a weak negotiator, and frets that, as a result, “the risk of Obama acceding to some dreadful policy choices is real and worrisome.” The prominent liberal blogger Digby is confounded that Obama is tying deficit reduction to the debt vote at all. And in a statement to TIME, Progressive Change Campaign Committee co-founder Adam Green says that any deal accepting entitlements cuts instead of higher taxes on the rich will amount to “a defining moment of presidential weakness.”

Read more: http://swampland.time.com/2011/07/06/liberals-fear-obama-is-bungling-debt-talks/#ixzz1ROYQwj82
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:42 AM
Response to Original message
1. k&r
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Tx4obama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:43 AM
Response to Original message
2. Unrec. Just another BS Obama bashing article. n/t
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:47 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Recc'd for truthiness
Cheers!
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Hand_With_Eyes Donating Member (197 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #2
10. Thank you for that informative rebuttle
:) :) :)
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senseandsensibility Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. How do I counter that?
Your facts are so overwhelming. You're right, Obama is really cool.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #2
13. Obama is all caught up in the Republican talking points.
I should hope that he is being verbally bashed. Obama is a fool.

Tx4Obama, if you are for Obama, you should oppose cuts to Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. If Obama agrees to cut those programs, he will not have voters' support in 2012. He will not be re-elected. If you are such a staunch Obama supporter, you need to work to dissuade Obama from accepting cuts to Medicare, Social Security and Medicaid.

No cuts. A lot of life-long Democrats will decline to vote for Obama if he agrees to these cuts.

Let the default take place. I am sick of Obama and his cuts to Social Security and Medicare.

And Obama has always planned to cut them. That is why he appointed Geithner, Pete Peterson's man to Secretary of Treasury. Obama is a double-crosser. He pretended to be something he is not.

Stop defending the indefensible.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 05:49 AM
Response to Reply #13
22. 'Tx4Obama'
Is that who 'ignored' is? :)
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BulletproofLandshark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. Yep. n/t
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Aerows Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. I couldn't agree more, JD
People who support Obama should be working their behinds off to stop him from cutting SS, Medicare and Medicaid, because if he does, he's going to go down and take other Democrats down with him.
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eilen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 05:05 AM
Response to Reply #2
21. Rec'd for boring advertised unrec. nt
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #2
31. You'd cheer him on no matter what he does.
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SolutionisSolidarity Donating Member (153 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 11:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
38. Recced.
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MouseFitzgerald Donating Member (208 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:52 AM
Response to Original message
4. Wow
Acknowledgment by the mainstream press that there are actually liberals who live in this country and they actually have opinions about things. Doesn't this guy understand that these progressives are just unreasonable children who should sit in the back seat while the "reasonable centrists" make all the decisions?
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Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:00 AM
Response to Original message
5. I think “a defining moment of presidential weakness” hits the nail on the head. nt
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:15 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I have come to the conclusion that he is working on his 'legacy'
since day one and that means that he's going to be what his mind eye is telling him even if he fails. No one around him is telling him what a shit heels he is right now. He sees himself as the great uniter after a decade of the shitty little divider. He's got no vision or guts. He's working on his legacy and instead of going into the books as a great president, which he could have been he will be remembered as that guy with the skills who pissed it all away.
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emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Legacy of being the second worst president after Bush the Second!
Obama is a failure as a president and he would be doing the country a big favor not to run in 2012.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:16 AM
Response to Reply #7
14. Well said, roguevalley.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. Obama has been working on his legacy since the first day of his first elected office
Dig down deep into his State government record...he has never been one to "represent"...he has always been one to take advantage of any situation to better himself at the cost of anyone who got in his way.

Unfortunately this time around...it is the progressive base that are in his way...and he doesn't give two shits about it.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 03:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. He'll have a legacy alright. nt
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sad sally Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
37. Nobel Peace Prize winner = Wars Forever, Wherever. Now that's a legacy.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. interesting considering the source.

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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #6
28. indeed
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Ice Number Nine Donating Member (234 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
9. I guess anybody can publish a pile of crap and call it an article these days.
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
12. I'm having an increasingly hard time perceiving it as unintentional bungling.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. It isn't. And you are right Obama was a trojan horse.
And so many DUers fell for him.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Yeah...they did.
but to be fair...he did give purty speeches...purty enough that people looked at the package and not the substance in the package.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #12
29. It's not bungling. n/t
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. +1. nt
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PufPuf23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 03:58 AM
Response to Original message
19. No fear here; POTUS Obama prove you are not complicit. nt
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lib2DaBone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 04:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. Does Obama have the Koch Bros on his speed dial?
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:11 PM
Response to Original message
23. But but but 98% of liberals support Obama!
It's twoo!
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Hahaha! Over a republican... I'll bet anything that people sit home though when he touches SS. n/t
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
24. I hate it when people try and speak for a group-
why do we let others dictate what "we" fear or think?

Michael Crowley doesn't speak for me.

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ProfessionalLeftist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
25. Valid concern. All valid arguments in this piece
"any deal accepting entitlements cuts instead of higher taxes on the rich will amount to “a defining moment of presidential weakness." . . . I couldn't agree more.

He's either getting played by the Devil (Tealiban/Republicans) or he's playing WITH them. As time goes on, I suspect the latter more often than the former.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
26. K&R
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
27. THE moment his measure was taken: Continuing the Bush tax cuts.
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blkmusclmachine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Telecom protection in wiretapping
'nuff said.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-07-11 10:32 PM
Response to Original message
35. Yes we do. He's caved on everything else... what's a couple of lives compared to "compromise"
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