"The one thing I'm clear about is that I'd rather be a really good one-term President than...

[Poll_Blind]

...a mediocre two-term president. And I believe that."- President Obama, 01/25/2010

Washington Post: In debt talks, Obama offers Social Security cuts
National Journal: Social Security Changes on the Table in Debt Talks
Agence France-Presse (AFP): Obama mulls Social Security cuts in debt deal
The Daily Caller: Obama puts Medicare, Social Security cuts on the table
The Huffington Post: Social Security Cuts Offered By Obama In Debt Negotiations
AmericaBlog: Obama proposes cuts to Social Security and Medicare
New York Times: President Looks for Broader Deal on Deficit Cuts (SS, Medicare, Medicaid)

So is this his idea of being the really good one-term president or a down payment on the mediocre two-term one?

:shrug:

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

1. all those articles are based on the same speculative crap. I could post a hundred more.

That doesn't make it true.

and it doesn't make Obama a one-term President either, but it's obvious you would prefer that.

[Poll_Blind]

2. Which do YOU think is more likely: The newspapers are lying or Obama is putting SS up for cuts?

Simple question, no?

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

7. The newspapers will post anonymous lies. That has been proven again and again.

Anything to sell a paper.

Don't you know this already?

[Poll_Blind]

You didn't answer the question. You choosing the "Everybody's lying" option?

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

19. just those who claim they know that Obama's cutting SS

I see you chose the hyperbole option.

[Poll_Blind]

73. And as soon as the sun came up it was confirmed by the White House.

What say you now? Let me guess...cutting Social Security is not as bad as it sounds?

Maybe the White House Is Lying Too, Eh?

PB

[sabrina 1]

82. New talking points needed!

It will probably take a little while! :-)

[GOTV]

78. I don't think any of those articles claim to know that. Who's claimed to know the future?

[sabrina 1]

74. Please answer the question. And please do not condescend to

DUers 'don't you know that already'. No, and you certainly don't apparently since all you have offered is hyperbole.

If this president cuts SS and tries to pretend it has anything to do with the deficit, assuming we are all stupid, he will lose the 2012 election and it will be HIS fault, so do not even try to blame the voters. That has grown very old and only likely to have the opposite effect.

[UrbScotty]

14. Good point! The media NEVER lies to us!

:sarcasm:

[Ozymanithrax]

4. If that speculative gap is more than mere speculation...

then perhaps Republicans will reelect him.

The President does not deserve the benefit of the doubt, here. Let him deny it forcefully.

[Ice Number Nine]

8. He's from Kenya! Let him deny it.

[Poll_Blind]

11. Nasty slur. Your style, though. n/t

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

13. Not my style. That's pure Teabag. Make a man deny a false claim.

Otherwise, he's obviously guilty, right?

[Ozymanithrax]

23. I am not asking him to deny a false claim, only state that the stories...

in some of the top News Media in the Nation are not true. If Harry Reid can say he will not do it, so can Obama.

[Ice Number Nine]

25. Obama's already said it repeatedly.

How is this recent "news" any more trustworthy than all those claims of 'SS cuts to come' before it?

[Ozymanithrax]

29. These specualtions are current, hitting a feaver pitch as he negotiates.

He has a staff to keep him up on specualtion in the media. If the speculation is wrong, it is a simple matter for him to get ahead of it.

[Ice Number Nine]

33. This crap popped up like a whack-a-mole just this afternoon.

It is a deliberate attempt by someone to put him on the defensive and create divisin by angering the Far Left.

You guys are buying this crap hook, line and sinker.

It seems some are just too ready to believe the worst about Obama.

[Ozymanithrax]

20. I had no idea that you were a birther.

We are not talking about stupid conspiracy theories. Let the Pesident come out and state that he will not negotiate cuts in Social Security or Medicare. Harry Reid has stated he will not cut it.

Mr. President, take a pledge.

[Ice Number Nine]

44. do you always require a sarcasm tag? I thought it was obvious.

[Poll_Blind]

50. You've still got the Nasty pedal to the floor? Good lord.

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

53. how would you react to being called a birther??

[Poll_Blind]

55. He called you a birther because you said "He's from Kenya! Let him deny it." That's nasty.

Nobody else brought that sick shit into this thread. That was all you and spare me the attempt to seek a circumlocutious defense for your indefensible commentary.

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

58. The person I was responding to demanded Obama defend himself against a false claim

Just like what the Birthers did.

"If Obama did nothing wrong then let him deny doing anything wrong"

That is the type of mentality we should avoid.

I find your attempt to purposefully misinterpret my post distasteful.

[Ozymanithrax]

63. Utter bullshit. I did not deman he deny a false claim, as these claim...

Reports from reputable reporters in the media are saying this.

[sabrina 1]

75. No, the commenter asked a reasonable question, you responded with

an implication that the commenter might be a birther. I believe that violates DU rules.

Has the president denied that he will consider cuts to SS? It's a simple question, and I mean this week, not during the campaign.

[Ozymanithrax]

62. You were the one that pulled up the Kenya bullshit.

[Fuddnik]

66. How about "Mav"?

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Horse with no Name]

3. I wouldn't call him mediocre--I don't think he has even earned that high of praise

however...he has been Presidential...kind of like Hoover...but not quite as good.

[Tx4obama]

5. Some of the links you posted refer back to the WaPo article. Which one has a quote from Obama?

You can post 100 links but if they are all referring back to what the WaPo article says (which has no quotes from Obama) then they are ALL worthless.

Please show us a quote from President Obama where he said he is planning on cutting Social Security.

[EFerrari]

12. Because Obama never sends his surrogates out to the media. Yeah, that's the ticket. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

16. Do YOU think President Obama put up SS for cuts to deal with Repugs?

Simple question.

PB

[Tx4obama]

18. No. I do NOT believe Obama has. There is no evidence that he has. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

22. My next question: How will you possibly spin it when he does?

And the answer I'm fishing for is "He would never do that." I'm just being honest.

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

27. How will you spin it when you're wrong? or will you just deny it?

[Poll_Blind]

31. Because, in your opinion, President Obama would NEVER do such a thing, correct?

Based on his past choices I have every reason to take these articles at face value. As opposed to someone on an internet forum, out in the dark (that's you), trying to convince me the whole world is a-lyin'

But that's beside the point. He, in our opinion, would never do such a thing, correct?

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

34. It ain't happening. Believe it or not.

You can thank me for the heads up later.

[Poll_Blind]

37. Because President Obama draws a line at cutting Social Security in order to...

...get Repukes to give up tax breaks for corporate jets? Wouldn't that be just the icing on the cake in a year of giveaways?

PB

[Ice Number Nine]

41. Now you're just going on. I like your style but not the substance you're working with.

[Tx4obama]

35. Why don't you debate the facts instead making up things.

First you want to push some fantasy article about Obama doing something that he hasn't done,
now you are imagining that I am a spinner and you're making silly quotes that I haven't and would not say.

[Fuddnik]

67. Did you see his economic adviser, Gene Sperling last night?

He sounded like the bastard offspring of Grover Norquist and Paul Ryan.

But, I guess it's all unfounded speculation, unless Obama stands in front of the camera and spells C-U-T three times while clicking his heels together.

[Youth Uprising]

6. Wow...

I had forgotten about that quote. So, I guess this means he's not running, right?
How sad...

[CakeGrrl]

10. Why wouldn't he? He hasn't CUT ANYTHING. -nt

[CakeGrrl]

9. OK, this is either the same WaPo speculation or Opinion blog entries about the WaPo speculation

I'll wait to see what actually takes place.

Yesterday the "Will Cuomo be VP?" went viral, now the "Will he cut SS?"

And people get all up in arms every time.

[Tx4obama]

15. Just look at the BS article written by Major Garrett (a REPUBLICAN). And a look at HuffPo

From the National Journal link up in the OP

Excerpt:

While the political jousting continues, President Obama and congressional Republicans are moving closer to a multi-tiered deal that would include changes in Social Security benefits, tax reform, increases in various user fees, and large-scale cuts in annual spending, according to numerous sources close to the negotiations.

No agreement exists and both sides continue to shadow box even as they move cautiously around the underlying policy and unpredictable political reaction any one or all of these potential shifts might incite. On Social Security, it's unclear if Obama is willing to raise the retirement age or merely accept changes in inflation-adjustment calculations that would reduce benefits but not alter the program's basic architecture. Administration officials have said a proposal from Obama's Simpson-Bowles deficit-reduction commission to raise the Social Security income cap are among the ideas being considered if there is a comprehensive deal in the making.

In the nitty-gritty of negotiations, Republicans have made clear to Obama if he wants to spare domestic "investments" funded through discretionary spending he need only embrace structural changes to Social Security or Medicare. Republicans contend altering current benefit schedules would extend solvency for Social Security and put bigger deficit-reduction numbers on the board, giving Obama more room for annual discretionary spending. And both sides are still fighting over how much to cut future defense spending within the context of annual discretionary spending. Democrats want deeper cuts than the GOP and the GOP wants to guard against any legislative bias in favor of defense cuts over non-defense discretionary savings. Like every other issue, much has been discussed and dissected -- but nothing has been agreed to.

SNIP
---------


Bottom line there is no 'there' there.


p.s. And the Huffington Post link up in the OP is only a link to the WaPo article.
So, there is no 'there' there at Huffington Post either!

[Poll_Blind]

17. So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?

I mean, one has to have lines in the sand somewhere, right?

Is SS a line in the sand for you?

PB

[Tx4obama]

21. This is stupid. Everyone is all in a panic over a WaPo article that doesn't even have a source named

It is ridiculous to jump to conclusions and ridiculous to accuse Obama of doing something that there is no evidence of him doing.

Until someone has proof he is going to cut SS there is no reason to have these FACT-LESS based debates.

[Poll_Blind]

26. See, you won't answer the question because you'll be called on to spin it soon.

So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?

I mean, one has to have lines in the sand somewhere, right?

Is SS a line in the sand for you?

Surely you don't need any prerequisite to simply give your opinion on that.

PB

[Tx4obama]

38. There isn't anyone that is going to call on me to spin anything.

Perhaps you should go to bed and get a good night's sleep.

Have a nice cup of hot chamomile tea first.

[Poll_Blind]

42. "So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?" is like Kryptonite to...

...you, isn't it?

:rofl:

PB

[Tx4obama]

46. There is no reason for me to parrot your sentence. The fact is ....

there is NO evidence at the moment that Obama has proposed in SS, medicare, or medicaid.

Lets discuss the FACTS.

The FACT is all the links you posted in the OP do not have any evidence that Obama is cutting any of the above mentioned items.

[Poll_Blind]

48. Don't you have an opinion on social security and whether or not it should be "on the table"?

That's decent, straight-forward discourse. I'll even leave the President out of it. Should Social Security be placed up for cuts in return for getting GOP concessions?

My opinion: No.

Your opinion....?

PB

[Tx4obama]

51. NO. And they are not on the table. So, why are you going on and on about this?

Now, please show us a quote from President Obama where he said he is planning on cutting Social Security in a deal with the GOP regarding the debt ceiling.

[Poll_Blind]

54. Because Social Security/Medicare/Medicaid are terribly important for...

...a segment of American society which has very few options and is, in many senses, defenseless. Especially in comparison to corporate interests.

Placing SS it on the table for cuts is beyond unacceptable and while you're doing a yeoman's job of it, it's basically your word against the editorial and reporting staff of half a dozen of the largest, most recognizable newspapers on Earth.

PB

[sabrina 1]

81. Please show us a quote from President Obama that states

clearly that SS is OFF the table in any discussions about the debt, the deficit, the debt ceiling, because as he must know, since the rest of us know, SS has zero to do with any of this. SS is a SEPARATE fund, paid for the American people. It is NOT a Fed. fund, it is the people's fund.

I have searched to find a clear statement explaining this to the American people as his reason for not even referring to SS during these talks, but I just can't find one.

Maybe you can.

[Tx4obama]

24. The AmericaBlog article link in the OP quotes WaPo. n/t

[Poll_Blind]

28. So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?

:shrug:

PB

[Tx4obama]

30. And the New York Times article linked up in the OP ....

It sounds like a Boehner fantasy.
Sounds like it is BOEHNER that thought HE would talk Obama into social cuts.
No where in the NYT article does it say anything at all about Obama wanting any cuts.

Excerpt:

... an overture from Mr. Boehner, who met secretly with Mr. Obama last weekend, to consider as much as $1 trillion in unspecified new revenues as part of an overhaul of tax laws in exchange for an agreement that made substantial spending cuts, including in such social programs as Medicare and Medicaid and Social Security — programs that had been off the table.
SNIP

Congressional Democrats said they were caught off guard by the weekend White House visit of Mr. Boehner — a meeting the administration still refused to acknowledge on Wednesday...

--------------

In my opinion the RUMOR of Obama wanting cuts in social programs is GOP propaganda that is NOT based on facts.

[Poll_Blind]

32. So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?

?

PB

[Fumesucker]

36. Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers couldn't tap dance around a question any better..

[BlueCheese]

39. I'm not sure what to believe right now.

I think Medicare and Medicaid are definitely going to be targeted. Not sure yet about Social Security.

Of the articles I checked, all of them except the New York Times article seem to cite the Washington Post as their source on Social Security. The New York Times article is somewhat vague as well.

It doesn't mean it's not true, but I'd like to hear some independent confirmation or other supporting evidence first. For example, when it was leaked earlier that the White House budget was going to slash LIHEAP, we had several administration officials giving out reasons for it before the actual announcement. That strongly suggested it was true, and indeed it was.

I do wonder, however, how he plans on getting $4 trillion in savings without taking a big chunk out of these programs. And any significant cut to them is of course a disgrace.

[Hawkowl]

40. One lie of many

The guy has lied so many times, how can anyone ever believe anything he says?

Maybe he meant he'd rather be a good one-term REPUBLICAN president, because I swear he is to the right of Nixon, Ford, Eisenhower, and Bush the Elder.

[Tx4obama]

43. Are you going to acknowledge that all the links in the OP refer to the WaPo article

and/or are written by Republicans?

[Poll_Blind]

45. So you're saying that the President would never do such a thing, correct?

?

PB

[Tx4obama]

47. The needle on your record is stuck. n/t

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Aerows]

85. Maybe you should answer the question

and you will quit being asked it. As another person noted, Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers would be impressed.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[baldguy]

60. He'll have to work up to "mediocre" in his second term, I guess.

[Tx4obama]

56. This discussion is moot unless someone can produce a quote from President Obama

where he said he is planning on cutting Social Security in a deal with the GOP regarding the debt ceiling.

At moment there is no quote and no evidence that Obama is even thinking of doing such a think.

[Poll_Blind]

57. It's tough to believe YOU over the editorial staff of the New York Times, Washington Post, AFP.

Just...sayin'

PB

[newspeak]

86. all I have to do is look at his choices for cabinet positions

who he appointed for our economic relief, his bargaining to continue the obscene little boot's tax cuts and his pro-corporate health insurance bill with no social program.

He shut out doctors and nurses for single payer, advocates for a government alternative from the death corporations. Now, apparently, he's shut out democratic congresscritters and having closed door meetings with the repugs. So, if he decreases SS checks for disabled and seniors (most don't get that much anyway) or ups the age (most won't have to worry about collecting because we'll be dead), then he's toast. Of course, if he only takes the cap away (which repugs won't like because their rich friends will have to pay more), then it may not be political suicide. But I honestly doubt it will be raising the cap.

If Obama is into Reaganomics and has similar beliefs in policy, he probably wouldn't mind a repug winning to further the agenda. Just like he's continued some of Little boot's destructive agenda while keeping some of the same players.

[Tx4obama]

88. Regarding your commment....

Obama had to TEMPORARILY extend the bush tax-cuts in order to get the unemployment benefits extended.
Obama WILL now let the tax-cuts expire.

Obama said ALWAYS in 2008 campaign that single-payer was NOT an option.
He said that single-payer would only work if we were starting from scratch.
Obama said that SEVERAL times at his town halls, perhaps you missed that.

My fingers are tired, so you can figure out on your own what else is not exactly right in your comment.

[dkf]

59. A one term President is generally the result of a change to a President of the opposing party.

Sometimes preventing the next George W Bush is the most significant thing a President can do.

[Poll_Blind]

64. And for the morning crew...

:kick:

PB

[tekisui]

65. This thread is so funny.

RUMORS! IT WON'T HAPPEN! BURYING MY HEAD BECAUSE OBAMA IS TEH AWESOME AND WOULD NEVER DO IT!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[muffin1]

77. +1

:thumbsup:

[Poll_Blind]

68. Now that the White House has confirmed this, where did evvabuddy go?

:shrug:

PB

[QC]

69. How about a really bad one-term president? n/t

[Poll_Blind]

72. Heh heh, indeed- I was thinking "How does Obama, himself, define this?!?"

PB

[hifiguy]

70. He may get his wish

as to one term. He's already blown his chance as to "good".

[Poll_Blind]

83. I just don't get why he made the choices, is all. n/t

PB

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

71. So, he opted for mediocrity as a compromise.

[Poll_Blind]

84. I'm really wondering how that whole "Team of Rivals" mentality is working out for him.

If that's still his thing, anyway.

PB

[truebrit71]

76. Kinda sucks that he may well turn out to be neither...

...

[Rex]

79. But you are NOT a 'really good' POTUS!

For FUCKS sake! Who lied him into believing that GARBAGE!? Sad that Obama will end up being a lousy one-term POTUS.

[somone]

80. "I'd rather be a really good one-term President for the plutocracy"

is what he meant

[StarsInHerHair]

87. I prefer my reasons for him to be a 1 termer, but he cant measure up I dont think

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1423337