Obama Faces Heat From The Left Over Social Security - LATimes

[WillyT]

Obama faces heat from the left over Social Security
By Michael A. Memoli
July 7, 2011, 11:26 a.m.

<snip>

The political left is steaming amid reports that President Obama is offering changes to Social Security and Medicare as part of a grand compromise to raise the nation's debt ceiling. A series of statements from liberal groups Thursday came as the president acknowledged that "there is going to be pain involved politically on all sides" as negotiators try to hammer out a deal by Aug. 2.

Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, an independent who caucuses with Democrats, said in a statement that he was "disturbed that the president is considering cuts in Social Security." He quoted Obama from the 2008 campaign, when he said that John McCain's campaign suggested cutting cost-of-living adjustments or raising the retirement age and then proclaimed that he "will not do either."

"The American people expect the president to keep his word," Sanders said.

Moveon.org released a survey of its members that found that 76% would be less likely to donate or volunteer for Obama's reelection effort if he cut Social Security. "MoveOn members, who worked tirelessly to elect the president, could not be more clear: Balancing the budget by cutting Social Security or Medicare benefits is just plain wrong," Justin Ruben, executive director of MoveOn.org, said.

"Cutting Social Security to reduce the national debt is like attacking Iraq to get Osama Bin Laden -- the two things are not related," said Jim Dean, chair of Democracy for America, a group founded by former Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean.

White House Press Secretary Jay Carney sought to quell the revolt among Obama's base, dismissing reports that he was open to reforming Social Security as old news.

<snip>

More: http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-obama-social-security-20110707,0,3755223.story?track=rss

:kick:

[N7Shepard]

1. Sanders rocks. Too bad he isn't POTUS.

[roxiejules]

16. Sanders is taking a survey....go to his site to be counted

What do you think? Take our new survey »

http://sanders.senate.gov/polls/index.cfm?uid=7f1106fe-a383-4473-8f0d-3ed108a86140

As Social Security emerged as a target in White House budget negotiations, Sen. Bernie Sanders insisted that the retirement program must not be cut as part of any deficit reduction deal. "Let us be clear," Sanders said. "Social Security has not contributed one nickel to our deficit or our national debt." The program that benefits more than 50 million seniors and disabled has a $2.6 trillion surplus, he stressed, and will be able to provide full benefits for every eligible American for the next 25 years. "I am especially disturbed that President Obama is considering cuts in Social Security after he campaigned against cuts in 2008," Sanders added.

[w8liftinglady]

39. done

2168/2300 want to see taxes raised on those making over $1 million.
2200/2300 want to see NO SS or Medicare/Medicaid cuts.
Is that enough of a majority?

[ClarkUSA]

2. Right-wing nut-owned LATimes high-fiving right-wing nut Fred Hyatt's WaPo Business Section lies.

Meanwhile, here are some facts that debunk this right-wing echo chamber of shit-stirring spin...

1. "The Progressive Caucus DEFENDS President Obama on his Social Security Stance":
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=702936&mesg_id=702936

2. "If enacted, the average social security recipient would get 14 cents less of an increase per month, but only in a month in which the social security benefit actually went up by about $34."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1435830

3. Nothing has changed since President Obama's SOTU address, wherein he stated his intention to cut costs and fraud but not benefits.

The actual story is that the President will not slash SS benefits. Where are the appropriate headlines to this effect?

"There is no news here," Carney said. "The President has always said that while social security is not a major driver of the deficit, we do need to strengthen the program and the President said in the State of the Union Address that he wanted to work with both parties to do so in a balanced way that preserves the promise of the program and doesn't slash benefits."

Let's not take the bait. Wait for actual information, before assuming the worst, please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=702658&mesg_id=702658

FYI: the WH has already pushed back and denied Fred Hyatt's right-wing WaPo Business Section spin.

[WillyT]

4. Well Here... Pick A Source You Like... There Certainly Are Plenty Of Them...

Link: http://news.google.com/news/more?ds=n&pq=social+security&hl=en&cp=15&gs_id=7&xhr=t&q=social+security&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&biw=1024&bih=679&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ncl=dOaY6zl_5IEZ81M4Ykp9PiCbPpcBM&ei=xiYWTpqrO4zksQPl2szPDQ&sa=X&oi=news_result&ct=more-results&resnum=1&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQqgIwAA

:shrug:

[flamingdem]

5. + 1

[sabrina 1]

6. Has he made a statement clearly stating that SS is OFF the table?

Is he making it clear that SS has NOTHING to do with the deficit, that this is a rightwing claim?

It's very simple, and the majority of Americans would agree with him. I hope he does so now. It's not too late.

[ClarkUSA]

9. Pres. Obama in his SOTU said he'd cut costs and fraud but not benefits. Nothing has changed.

[sabrina 1]

12. Why is he still tying SS to the deficit?

There is simply no connection. Do you have a statement from him where he makes that completely clear?

[ClarkUSA]

13. Quote?

[sabrina 1]

24. The current debate is all over the news. The debate is supposed to

be about lowering the deficit. Why are we hearing the words 'Social Security' in this debate?? Can you explain that?

And, more troubling, CNN is reporting that SS is ON the table:

Obama, Hill leaders hold 'constructive' debt talks, schedule more

Specifically, CNN has learned negotiators are considering the possibility of raising the Social Security retirement age and trimming benefit levels for older Americans with incomes over $60,000.

Why don't they just call it what it is?? This is the Global Austerity Program that has destroyed other countries, going back to Argentina.

These global Capitalists want an end to publicly funded social programs. I don't think too many people are fooled by the real goals here.

THEY RUINED this economy and the world economy, now they are using the destruction they are responsible for to go after social programs, here and everywhere else. Any Democratic President that allows this to happen cannot call themselves a democrat.

The American people should not be paying the debts of Wall St. Gamblers. End the Bush Tax Cuts. If this is such an emergency, then they MUST hold a special session of Congress, start investigations into the criminals who did this, as recommended by the by-partisan Senate Committee just recently and start retrieving some of the trillions they stole.

It is simply unacceptable to even think about making the poorest and most vulnerable Americans help pay for their ill-gotten life-styles.

[ClarkUSA]

29. So you have no quote?

[sabrina 1]

30. So you agree?

SS should not even be a factor in these debates?

Thank you!

[ClarkUSA]

32. Your statements are a strawman fallacy to distract from the fact you have no quote.

[sabrina 1]

35. Where is your quote from this president stating that Social Security

is not connected to the deficit and is 'off the table' as far as any discussions on the deficit are concerned??

I'm still searching, otherwise I would post it for you.

[ClarkUSA]

36. Prove your claim. I tire of your reindeer games.

Unless you have a quote, don't waste my time further.

[sabrina 1]

37. No quote, I didn't think so.

As I said, I searched but have not found a quote from this President stating clearly that Social Security has nothing to do with the Deficit and will NOT be on the table.

I tire of your games just FYI. Interesting that you start the game, then whine when someone decides to play according to the rules YOU set up.

Either post a quote showing the conviction of the President that SS is a separate fund and no one should ever hear the words 'deficit' and 'social security' in the same speech, let alone in the same sentence.

If you can't do that, then just say so, or don't.

Your games are not amusing, nor are they very convincing.

[ClarkUSA]

38. Um, I didn't make any such claim. Why are you pretending otherwise?

Are you so desperate to have the last word that you're willing to keep making up fallacious arguments? It seems so.

Sorry, but it's clear you are wrong here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1436256&mesg_id=1436443

[sabrina 1]

40. You are claiming that this president has never

tied SS to the deficit. You are attempting to do so by playing word games, and that old, old tactic of 'demanding proof'.

The simplist and shortest way to resolve the issue is for you to post a clear statement, such as the ones made by Sen. Sanders, that there is simply no connection between SS and the Deficit. Trying to distract from the fact that no such statement appears to exist, is what I call 'pretending'.

I am not desperate at all and am more than willing to discuss any topic with anyone, rationally. You appear to be upset when someone pushes an issue that has not been resolved. IF this president has been as clear as Sen. Sanders on SS and the deficit, somewhere, I will be more than happy to applaud him for it.

[ClarkUSA]

45. Prove it. Quote me. That's a false statement. You've just concocted another strawman argument.

Pathetic. :rofl:

You have no proof of your claim. Admit it.

[sabrina 1]

50. Well, now we are getting somewhere. So you do NOT deny

that this president has linked SS to the deficit?? Look, I am familiar with tactics, with weasel words etc. Which is why I am trying to get some clear statements from the president, no weasel words, they are not clever as he seems to think. They are transparent in their lack of clarity.

Now, you are saying that you never claimed the president has NOT linked SS and the Deficit. I know you're trying not to be too clear, as you appear to think that is clever or whatever, but the problem is you can't have it both ways.

Is it hard to put in words 'yes, the president has made a clear statement separating SS and the Deficit and making it clear that SS is OFF the table in any discussions of deficit reduction'??

Since you are wriggling furiously not to say that, but going with the ancient tactic of 'demanding proof' (do you know how old that is btw) to avoid acknowledging that he has not said it, now denying that you denied it, I will take all this wriggling to mean that you concede he has never made a clear statement regarding SS and the Deficit.

To think we could have come to this point several posts ago.

[ClarkUSA]

51. Nice try. I'm still waiting for the quote that backs up your claim here. -->

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1436256&mesg_id=1436443

[sabrina 1]

64. Did you notice my question in that comment?

I'll ask again, point me to a quote of his that clarifies that SS has nothing to do with the deficit and that he will not even consider including any discussion of SS in any debate about the deficit.

If you can't, just say so.

He did however, and I believe you posted this yourself, state that 'SS is not a MAJOR DRIVER of the deficit'. That is FALSE. It has ZERO to do with the deficit. So, again, why did he imply in that statement, that SS has anything at all, major or minor, to do with the deficit?

[newspeak]

55. she's right

SS should not even be in these debates. SS is separate from the deficit, why would he even bargain with SS?

[Aerows]

17. I haven't seen one

All they want to do is rob Social Security to pay off the deficit for show, only to turn around and spend more money in our adventures in empire-building.

[_ed_]

67. He also said some things about the public option...

about Iraq...about Afghanistan...about GITMO...about the rule of law...

Obama to you: "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"

[Aerows]

7. Bernie Sanders is far from a right wing nut

and that's who was quoted.

Jim Carney (spokesman for the WH) said that cuts have always been under consideration.

A weasel worded statement and spin isn't going to change the fact that if there are any sort of "adjustments", cuts, slashing or whatever word you use to say that people will end up getting less, people are going to be pissed, and not just Democrats.

Instead of cheerleading, you really should be writing letters to your Representatives and the White House and informing them that it will have disastrous consequences for both Obama and Democrats, because it will.

Supporting someone who has a bad idea isn't really supporting them, it's helping them sink their own ship.

[ClarkUSA]

11. Does he know "The Progressive Caucus DEFENDS President Obama on his Social Security Stance"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=702936&mesg_id=702936

Sanders speculative comments are just that: speculation.

[Aerows]

15. I couldn't care less who defends it

It's a dumb position and it's going to have disastrous consequences for Obama and probably for other Democrats.

If you don't realize that, and Obama doesn't realize that, then you aren't living with the reality that most Americans are living in.

When people who have paid into SS and Medicare all of their lives wake up with their benefits cut or no COLA, there will be a veritable shitstorm of anger at the polls.

Hell, maybe the Progressive caucus is supporting it because they want Obama primaried. Who knows, but anyone on board with cutting SS/Medicare is crazy if they think it won't be a political disaster.

[ClarkUSA]

19. I couldn't care less about your opinion.

[Aerows]

22. It's mutual

but go ahead and cheer lead for a bad idea. Don't say that no one warned you.

[ClarkUSA]

25. I didn't offer any. Unlike you, the facts are at my disposal. Sanders has none. Neither do you.

Don't say I didn't warn you when Pres. Obama does exactly what he promised to do in his SOTU, with the Progressive Caucus' blessing... and no doubt, Sanders, too.

[Aerows]

26. I haven't seen you offer a fact yet

I've seen you offering weasel wording, being rude and now you are claiming that Bernie Sanders doesn't know anything.

That, more than anything, tells me what value to place on your view of the situation. Not to mention the fact that I know how to read English and I have not seen "I will not cut Social Security and Medicare" stated plainly by anyone in the Obama administration.

[ClarkUSA]

28. Reread the fact highlighted between the quotation marks in Reply #11 again.

:)

Here are some more facts: Nothing has changed since President Obama's SOTU address, wherein he stated his intention to cut costs and fraud but not benefits.

The actual story is that the President will not slash SS benefits. Where are the appropriate headlines to this effect?

"There is no news here," Carney said. "The President has always said that while social security is not a major driver of the deficit, we do need to strengthen the program and the President said in the State of the Union Address that he wanted to work with both parties to do so in a balanced way that preserves the promise of the program and doesn't slash benefits."

Let's not take the bait. Wait for actual information, before assuming the worst, please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=702658&mesg_id=702658

FYI: the WH has already pushed back and denied Fred Hyatt's right-wing WaPo Business Section spin.

[sabrina 1]

31. Raising the retirement age is not cutting SS?

[ClarkUSA]

34. Prove it. Are you privy to the final budget deal proposal? You must be the only one.

:sarcasm:

BTW, I'm not interested in your speculative nonsense or anymore strawman bullshit.

[sabrina 1]

46. It's not my claim. The claim was made in the CNN link I posted

for you above. You have not addressed the issue, eg, are you in favor of raising the retirement age, is Obama? Has the WH issued a denial?

Look, if discussion bothers you so much, then why are you posting here? It IS a discussion board and as such, you are going to find people questioning politicians all the time. But each time someone disagrees with you, or even asks a question, it seems to be a problem for you.

Maybe the problem is that you do not have answers to questions people are asking. I would think though, that you should not direct that anger towards the people asking the questions. Maybe it should go towards those you are attempting to defend who are making it difficult for you to do so.

I don't defend any politician when they are clearly doing something wrong. They are not my personal friends. They work for us, and when they do a good job, that is great and I will say so. But I don't believe in blind support for any politician. I used to and ended up being very embarrassed later on when others proved to be right after all.

[ClarkUSA]

47. It's pure speculation. MSM whore rumors don't interest me.

[sabrina 1]

49. Then why do you post links to articles

at all? The WH can always make a statement if the 'rumor' is wrong. So far, they have not.

[ClarkUSA]

52. The WH has pushed back on speculation that SS benefits are on the table.

Nothing has changed since President Obama's SOTU address, wherein he stated his intention to cut costs and fraud but not benefits.

The actual story is that the President will not slash SS benefits. Where are the appropriate headlines to this effect?

"There is no news here," Carney said. "The President has always said that while social security is not a major driver of the deficit, we do need to strengthen the program and the President said in the State of the Union Address that he wanted to work with both parties to do so in a balanced way that preserves the promise of the program and doesn't slash benefits."

Let's not take the bait. Wait for actual information, before assuming the worst, please.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=702658&mesg_id=702658

FYI: the WH has already pushed back and denied Fred Hyatt's right-wing WaPo Business Section spin.

[sabrina 1]

62. 'SS ~ not a major driver of the deficit'.

That's what he said. SS has nothing to do with the deficit. To say it is not a 'major driver' implies it is a driver. That is false.

[Aerows]

56. +1000

"Maybe the problem is that you do not have answers to questions people are asking. I would think though, that you should not direct that anger towards the people asking the questions. Maybe it should go towards those you are attempting to defend who are making it difficult for you to do so."

That's EXACTLY what the group of people who are getting enraged anytime someone discusses this should do, and I've told them so. Cutting SS and Medicare is political suicide, and even the defenders know it - that's why they are trying to deflect, deny and spin. They hope to keep people distracted until the bad news comes out, then they will spin it to the hilt.

You can't spin cutting SS and Medicare. People know that once those programs become touchable, there will be nothing but cuts until it is done away with entirely. We've paid into SS. It's OUR money. It also has NOTHING to do with the deficit. They want to rob SS to pay for wars, and because they know another Wall Street meltdown is coming (J. P. Morgan is leveraged out the ass).

[StarsInHerHair]

41. ya'll are arguing with an 'ignored' maybe it'll save you time, I don't expect change

from those quarters

[sabrina 1]

48. I think you are probably right, but I keep hoping

to be wrong, for the sake of all those who will be so adversely affected should they cut SS in any way.

[StarsInHerHair]

57. yeah, know at least, that we do have this in common with the TP, we can

close ranks with them to protect Social Security, as odd as that sounds. Unfortunately, my Dad is 1 of them, & he's had a problem for a long time when it comes to reality...

[Marr]

3. It's already "old news"?

Christ, these con-men are really stepping up the pace.

And Obama doesn't give a shit about MoveOn's volunteers. He's now in a position to do everything that DLC sell-outs love most-- he can cripple the Democratic Party while handing more money to Wall Street, and tweak the Democrats' traditional constituencies all at the same time.

[Aerows]

8. They have weasel worded

and now are flat out lying. This is going to have disastrous consequences for Democrats and for Obama.

Those supporting this very bad idea are going to end up supporting the demise of the Obama presidency and the careers of any Democrat who supports it.

[StarsInHerHair]

43. can they be blocked at Governor level? Various govnernors collecting

SS taxes & keeping it in the State, & using the Governors Association distributing extra to other States?

[damntexdem]

10. Obama will face heat from the left, liberals, moderates, many conservatives ...

and a major proportion of those high-voting-rate older persons, and labor unions. He would get no support from me. It's not what a press secretary says, or what Obama says, it's what Obama does -- and that could get support, or get a thorough rejection. And "you have nowhere else to go" just won't cut it anymore.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. "Obama Faces Heat From The Left ..."

A badge he wears with great pride. :puke:

[Raine]

21. yes gives him more to brag about

anytime he faces heat from the left seems to be a good day to him. x(

[sabrina 1]

33. Exactly. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to get the 'left'

riled so he could point to it at his meeting today. 'See, Repubs, I'm taking heat from the left'??

Except it's not just from the 'left'. It's from a huge voting bloc without which he cannot win, which includes Seniors and THEIR children across party lines.

[bvar22]

18. He should face more than just "heat".

He should face our FULL WRATH & FURY at his betrayal for even putting these things on the table.

[Raine]

23. yes that and a serious progressive primary challenger who

could get the nomination.

[StarsInHerHair]

44. Dean/Colbert? Colbert/Franken? Sanders/Colbert? Dean/Sanders?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

27. You rang???

My user name originated with Bush's selection (Hell hath no fury like a voter scorned) but it apparently is quite useful for the current resident of 600 Pennsylvania Ave. :evilgrin:

He -- and Dems like him -- needs to be taught a serious lesson as to what it means to be a Democrat. Now is the time.

[gkhouston]

20. "Obama Faces Heat From The Left"

I suspect a good many Americans will be surprised to discover that their displeasure now qualifies them as being "left".

[w4rma]

42. OLD NEWS? I completely despise Obama's entire economic team.

Everybody in this administration who helps to support this should be BLACKLISTED from political jobs among Democrats.

[ClarkUSA]

53. Why? Pres. Obama in his SOTU said he'd cut costs and fraud but not benefits. Nothing has changed.

His economic team saved this country from going over an economic cliff and put strings onto Bush's NSA TARP that made banks have to pay back every dime with interest.

[Aerows]

58. Saved us from going over an economic cliff?

Do you think that we still aren't headed over one, because we are. Why? We prosecuted NO ONE after the bailouts, and it is absolutely guaranteed another crash is coming. You let crooks get away with things, and they commit more crimes. JP Morgan WILL be next, and they are scary because they are leveraged out of the ass worse than Bear Stearns, AIG, Merril Lynch and Enron put together.

Wages have not improved and there haven't been significant improvements in jobs, and even he himself said that he was too optimistic on the economy and should have said the recession was going to take a long time to get out of. How is cutting even more money from senior's pockets going to help the situation? How is ending COLA going to help the situation, because that is essentially taking more money from senior's pockets.

We need to stimulate the economy by getting money in the hands of consumers not putting more money in the hands of people who already have more than they can spend in a lifetime.

[ClarkUSA]

59. Yes.

<< We prosecuted NO ONE after the bailouts, and it is absolutely guaranteed another crash is coming. >>

Wrong.

Mortgage exec gets 30 years for $3 billion fraud:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x4902358

Former Colonial Bank Senior Vice President Sentenced to 8 Years in Prison for Fraud Scheme:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x692318

"Corporatist" Obama Administration Sues Oil Futures Traders:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=681076&mesg_id=681076

All this, despite this proof of Republican obstructionism:

While Fighting To Block SEC Investigation Of Goldman Sachs, Rep. Darrell Issa Bought Goldman Sachs Bonds:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x697748

[Aerows]

60. None of the ones that were the architects of the disaster

And again, I can guarantee it will happen again, and it's coming a lot sooner this time. Right before the election, expect a disaster because it's already in the works. Feel free to read any financial website that honestly assessing the state of the health of many of the Wall Street banks, and it will scare the hell out of you.

Financial disasters aren't unplanned events, and they go in planned cycles. They used to happen once every 7 years, now they are on the 4 year plan. A quick look at the last decade and a half will confirm it. That's why they need to be prosecuted, we need Glass-Seagel back and there needs to be JAIL time, not fines.

Don't give me that about Republican obstructionism. If you are a leader, you LEAD. You don't bicker back and forth with others and let them dictate policy - you dictate policy and get others to follow you.

[rhett o rick]

66. Disaster Capitalism. nm

[larwdem]

54. HEAT

WE NEED A FLAME THROWER

[lib2DaBone]

61. Obama Faces Heat... But.. He doesn't give a shit......

Obama has a desk waiting at Goldman Sachs.. full retirement and full health care... you think he cares one bit about the American People? LOL... what a joke.....

[me b zola]

63. "Cutting Social Security to reduce the national debt is like attacking Iraq to get Osama Bin Laden -

:thumbsup:

[KurtNYC]

65. Headline implies that moderates, independents and

rank and file GOP are okay with having their Social Security ripped off.

[indepat]

68. Read my lips: no one party to eviscerating social security, Medicare, or Medicaid to pay for BHO's

tax cuts for the uber-wealthy will ever get my vote. What they will get are my enmity and full efforts to convince others, including my eight progeny of voting age, to likewise never vote for anyone party to such depraved action tantamount to a disgraceful breach of faith with the American people in order for the uber-wealthy and large corporations to continue a sucking frenzy at the public welfare teat. :patriot: