Hey, what do you think the republicans will demand NEXT YEAR

[no_hypocrisy]

if or when the debt ceiling has to be raised again? Reminder: 2012 is a general election and all members of the House are running.

Think Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid will exist after 2012?

[Sarah Ibarruri]

1. Our firstborns, and hopefully we Democrats won't try to please them. nt

[Drale]

2. There is not going to be a debt ceiling next year because

there is not going to be any compromise, they democrats are just going to string the Repukes along, making them show more and more of the crazy hand, until the deadline, then they are going to declare the debt ceiling unconstitutional.

[LooseWilly]

11. I think David Frum said it well when he called that a gift of "grounds for an impeachment trial"

On July 5 Last Word, first segment (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/43648342#43648342) right near the end (about 11:30 of 11:56) David Frum points out that the White House simply claiming unconstitutionality and carrying on as if the debt ceiling didn't exist would simply be giving Republicans grounds for an impeachment trial if they lose the next election.

I'd add that Obama's dismissal of the War Powers Act would also provide further evidence to use at such a trial. It might not be a road he should travel down...

And by the way— the making of such an argument would seem to indicate that Obama actually DOES have a 'magic wand', which he apparently saves for bombing "Bad Guys" and ... defending the interests of the banks, foreign and domestic, which hold government debt. ;)

[Drale]

12. Obama is not a stupid man even though many here seem to want to make him out to be

I can guarantee you he has a master plan that you and me don't see the ends to just yet.

[LooseWilly]

19. Well, thanks for the guarantee. I feel better already.

Unfortunately, if your guarantee could be trusted... that would mean that HCR, the stimulus, financial regulation, ending the Bush/Obama tax cuts, Libya, closing Guantanamo, etc. all had come out exactly according to his brilliant plans... which would mean that he just likes lying during his campaigns and enacting crappy, half-assed policy that is more useful for corporate America than it is for citizens. In other words, if you are right, then Obama is an asshole.

My theory, however, is that you are wrong.

I would further opine that, if Obama had a brilliant strategy for extracting a meaningful deal from Republicans that didn't sell out, to some degree or other to be announced later, the social programs that have been the best thing that Democrats have done for the country... it would have to involve announcements that put pressure on Republicans to 'cede ground' to reach an announcement.

In fact, and this was the point of my even responding to you, the talk of the unconstitutionality of the debt ceiling actually decreases pressure on Republicans... because they can now go ahead and refuse to budge—and rather than it resulting in a fucking economic catastrophe, as was previously always said— it will now result simply in Obama metaphorically waving that magic wand he's been denying ownership of and business will then go on as usual.

—Except that his 'magic wand' will have caused him to have violated accepted laws, i.e. the debt ceiling law, whatever it's officially called, and this will provide grounds for an impeachment trial.

While Speaker Pelosi may not have been willing to impeach Bush over war crimes like waterboarding... that doesn't mean that a Speaker Boehner won't press for a trial. Newt seemed perfectly willing to go after Clinton.

In other words... the talk of the unconstitutionality of the debt ceiling is an indication that Obama really isn't as smart as you seem to think he is.

[LooseWilly]

3. EPA and other regulatory agency "downsizing" as targeted budget reductions?

Including virtual elimination of consumer protection agency that Warren seems destined to never be fully appointed to head?...

[eilen]

4. Ovens? nt

[valerief]

5. Our kidneys and livers, I think. nt

[RagAss]

6. Mandatory euthanasia at 58 years old.

[demodonkey]

10. But only for the poor and what's left of the middle class. nt

[valerief]

20. Why distinguish the two? There's the very rich...and everyone else. nt

[AsahinaKimi]

7. It sure would be nice...

For someone to stand up to the bullies for once... (Can we hire Jackie Chan?)

[madrchsod]

16. i`d hire .....

awesome movie!

[AsahinaKimi]

18. Oooooooooooooooh!

I have been wanting to see that film!

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Look to lemings for a clue

[LoZoccolo]

9. And they're more likely to get it thanks to all the people threatening to defund Democrats.n/t

[saras]

13. Rape, slavery, and murder, and they'll demand it with guns in hand

Well, it might be the year after that, or maybe even a couple more, but I don't expect them to stop until either they succeed at eliminating the majority of the planet's population or are forcibly removed and imprisoned.

[madrchsod]

14. it will exist well past 2012

whether or not i ever see a cost of living raise is the real question on those who are on social security. there is no social security funding problem for another 20- 30 years.

medicare and medicaid are going to be the real losers. by the time they get done with these programs we`ll be paying more money for less. it`s called death by a thousand paper cuts. they will slowly bleed us to death.

[SoutherDem]

15. Homosexuals and Atheist are to be executed, Christianity

will become the national religion, all gun laws will be overturned, the FDA, EPA, and OSHA regulations will end. Just for starters. Then the Republicans will get serious.

[Dr Fate]

17. Anything they please, and they will not wait for next year.

Nt