Arizona essentially has no gun control laws. Add this to the hate talk, and this is no surprise

[still_one]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/17/arizona-gun-law-concealed_n_541445.html

[TheCowsCameHome]

1. 5-4-3-2-1

:popcorn:

[Kingofalldems]

17. You called it--already here.

[cali]

2. Vermont has little gun control

[Statistical]

3. Arizona has no gun control laws? Really?

Well I guess facts are optional in your universe.

[provis99]

4. he wrote "essentially" no gun laws.

Does the word "essentially" NEED TO BE IN CAPITAL LETTERS FOR YOU??

[still_one]

6. Thank-you, I was just about to post the misrepresentation of my expression /nt

[Statistical]

10. Which is still a false statement.

Also even if Arizona had absolutely no gun control laws on the books citizens would still be subject to every federal gun control law.

[still_one]

12. see link below, it is worse than Vermont, it scores only 2.

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/VT

[Statistical]

13. I don't read Republican trash.

[still_one]

18. Your comment speaks for itself, it has NOTHING to do with repukes, but your blindess says everything

about YOU

In fact YOUR position speaks more to republican trash

You have a problem with background checks?

[Statistical]

19. Brady is a Republican organization.

Most of their "stats" are pure BS.

For example AZ scores 0 of 12 points for Dealer requirements....
State license required
Record keeping and retention
Report records to the state, and state retains records
Mandatory theft reporting of all firearms
At least 1 store security precaution required
Inspections by police allowed

AZ scores 0 because it has no laws requiring these things. OH NOES OH NOES. Wait a second. Federal laws require all these things. Thus any dealer in AZ (or any state) is subject to these requirements.

Why should AZ pass laws just for the sake of passing laws? AZ passing laws on these issues wouldn't do anything except score 12pts.

[still_one]

25. No, those Federal laws you are talking about are being contested, including concealed weapons /nt

[X_Digger]

28. There is no federal law on concealed weapons to contest. n/t

[Statistical]

32. A cite please?

Nobody is looking to overturn federal dealer or background check system.

[Kingofalldems]

21. Calling a DUer a liar is against the rules

[Statistical]

23. First of all stating something is false isn't calling someone a liar.

Second there is an alert button.
Finally there is an ignore button.

[Kingofalldems]

26. I will not ignore you--that's for sure

[still_one]

27. Surprise, I agree with you on that point /nt

[still_one]

14. So what is your opinion on background checks in buying a gun? Does that violate your rights? /nt

[Statistical]

20. Federal law requires a dealer to perform a background check on every sale.

In every city, in every state, in every situation.

[wtmusic]

51. Let's try this again.

So what is your opinion on background checks in buying a gun? Does that violate your rights?

[onehandle]

5. Arizona Daily Star reporter calls guns a 'fetish' in Arizona.

And the reporter owns guns. Said it was inevitable because of the political climate and gun culture there.

He was interviewed on CNN earlier.

Brewer is adding fuel and ammo to the fire.

[Edweird]

7. Vermont also has 'essentially no gun control laws' -

by your reasoning this should have happened there first. Why didn't it? Unless of course the gun laws didn't really play an issue.

[still_one]

11. Arizona does not require Brady criminal background checks on all firearm sales

including those at gun shows
Arizona "lacks common sense gun laws."

Allowing someone to bring a gun into a bar is pure insanity

Arizona has one of the weakess gun laws in the country. Even worse than Vermont

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/VT

[Edweird]

24. So, let's see: Murder is against the law, and that did not stop him.

Why do you believe that a gun law would?

FYI - Mexico has some of the strictest gun laws in the world.

[X_Digger]

30. Arizona follows federal law..

Namely, any time a federally licensed dealer sells a firearm to a person (who doesn't also have a federal license), they perform an electronic background check, regardless of venue (store front, kitchen table, gun show.)

That's also the case in all but 11 states (Mostly in the Northeast and CA).

[derby378]

8. Take a look at Dallas County sometime

I don't have the stats for all of Texas, but we have comparatively few gun laws compared to many other communities - and our crime rate has been declining for probably the last three years now. Despite all of our concealed handguns, our lack of any FOID, and the availability of semi-automatics (and even full-auto with NFA clearance), we're still doing just fine.

[still_one]

15. Texas has stronger gun control laws than Arizona. As far as Texas doing alright, enjoy /nt

http://www.bradycampaign.org/stategunlaws/scorecard/TX

[Pancho Sanza]

9. I absolutely agree! But I can't think of any 'gun control laws' that would have stopped this.

You must have some ideas, would you care to share them?

[still_one]

16. How about a background check? /nt

[Statistical]

22. Background checks are required by all dealers in the country. AZ is no exception. n/t

[Kingofalldems]

29. Straw man

OP says Arizona.

[Statistical]

31. Why would AZ need a law on background check if federal law already requires a background check?

Passing laws which have no effect (because federal law already applies) serves no purpose except to score political points.

If the suspect could pass a federal background check he could also pass a state background check. Having 2 checks wouldn't make anything safer.

[Kingofalldems]

36. When did I say anything about background checks?

You are putting words in my post that aren't there.

[Statistical]

37. How about you reread this thread in order (hint you aren't the only one posting). n/t

[Kingofalldems]

39. Reply #10 Read that.

But actually I myself believe in absolute gun control---licensing of all handguns. Oh, and OP is still correct.

[Statistical]

40. How would his firearm being licensed stop this crime?

Also this subthread isn't under post #10. You are aware how DU forum works right?

Let me help you up. This is the direct subthread you are responding to...


"I absolutely agree! But I can't think of any 'gun control laws' that would have stopped this."
"How about a background check?"
"Background checks are required by all dealers in the country. AZ is no exception." <- Me.
"Straw man. OP says Arizona." <- You

[Kingofalldems]

41. Sly insults designed to get past the mods--clever

"You are aware..."
OK- bottom line OP was correct.

[LAGC]

47. Nope, bottom line: OP incorrect.

I can't think of any gun control laws that would have prevented this shooting.

Perpetrator wasn't a felon, so he could legally buy and own. Even if we licensed all handguns, he would have still been able to legally buy and own.

Nothing short of banning all handguns would have prevented this crime, and even then, who do you expect will NOT turn their handguns in should such a law be passed? (Hint: the criminals and the crazies.)

[Kaleva]

35. Gun dealers in Arizona are required to follow federal law.

[Pancho Sanza]

34. Well, many gun control (or ban) advocates are fond of mentioning that many murderers

and other criminals were law-abiding until the moment they were not. I'm not a big fan of this argument, but it sure would seem to apply to your query, yes?

[killbotfactory]

33. Would a person motivated enough to gun down a politician, and innocent bystandards

be dissuaded by gun control laws?

[wtmusic]

42. Fail - assumes laws are incapable of preventing crime. nt

[X_Digger]

43. Umm.. logic fail.. laws don't prevent crime.

Laws themselves merely proscribe behavior. They do nothing in and of themselves to prevent crime.

There are two elements of how well a law is followed- what are the chances of getting caught, and what are the consequences of being caught.

A law that isn't enforced (such as one from the 1800's prohibiting spitting on the sidewalk) won't be followed, valid though it may be.

A law that has minimal penalties (such as parking tickets) won't be followed very well.


If laws themselves prevented crime, there'd be no need for law enforcement.

[wtmusic]

45. Consequences don't influence behavior?

:crazy: OK. Not sure you want to continue down this path.

[X_Digger]

46. See post 33 (the one you responded to)..

Would a person motivated enough to gun down a politician, and innocent bystandards
be dissuaded by gun control laws?

Someone who's willing to face the consequences for shooting a politician and others.. is going to be deterred by the lesser consequences of breaking a gun law?

Are you sure you want to continue down that path?

[wtmusic]

48. Irrelevant

Committing this horrible crime was far easier than buying the gun it was committed with.

[X_Digger]

52. It was the point of the post you responded to..

Perhaps you meant to respond to another post?

[killbotfactory]

53. It depends on how the laws are enforced

And the willingness of people to violate them.

It's already a crime to kill someone, that didn't prevent this tragedy, or a few thousand others across the country every year.

If someone believes they can get away with it, or simply to jaded or deranged to care, the law doesn't really do much except detail how to punish them after the crime.

The most effective way to prevent crimes like this are making sure everyone has the proper physical and mental health care they need, and to reduce the stresses and environment that aggravate and encourage this kind of crime.

[yarisa]

38. Didn't the Congresswoman carry?

Ms. Giffords, at least, said she would uphold Arizona’s tradition of self-protection.

“I have a Glock 9-millimeter, and I’m a pretty good shot,” she said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/us/politics/26threat.html

[LAGC]

49. Sure, but how do you stop someone who gets the drop on you?

Bottom line is: nothing would have prevented the initial violence of this crime, except for maybe better access to mental health services for the shooter.

If someone else was there and was armed, they might have been able to intervene sooner before more people were killed... but that's a decision each concealed-carry gun-owner has to make given the circumstances.

[RegieRocker]

44. News Flash

There are no murders in states that do not allow conceal and carry!

[wtmusic]

50. Lame.