So much hyperbole, so much gnashing of teeth....

[Joe the Revelator]

Even Howard freaking Dean, no one's third way man, is agreeing with what the President is doing. When did we, as a country decide, to leave facts at the door and live and die by emotions and sound bites?



We live in strange, dangerous times.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Naw, it's just the usual DU freakout.

We love the drama.

[Renew Deal]

2. I see a lot of madness over very little information.

I am concerned, but I'm not going to go nuts over rumors.

[Fearless]

9. Pelosi was concerned enough to strike back against the party's seated president...

Is that enough to take this seriously?

[Renew Deal]

14. Isn't that pretty much what I said.

:shrug:

[Fearless]

17. No. You said there's pretty much nothing to go on... I say if she is rounding the troops...

That there's something very big going on.

[Renew Deal]

19. No, I said there's pretty much no information.

But I think this is an argument over nothing.

[Fearless]

20. That's exactly what I just said... and I disagree based on what Pelosi is doing.

[Renew Deal]

21. OK

:shrug:

[hfojvt]

33. it's an argument over a President that we do not trust

and for good reason.

Back in November of last year, people were all upset on DU. They claime that Obama was gonna cave on the Bush tax cuts. His defenders claimed, no, that isn't what he said, he's not gonna cave on the Bush tax cuts. This went on for weeks, until suddenly one day in December, Obama announced "I am caving on the Bush tax cuts." A week or so later, it was a done deal. Bernie Sanders only delayed it by half a day.

Now with government default looming, how much time are we gonna have to protest once the actual deal is announced? Probably almost none. A "bi-partisan agreement" will be announced and then pushed through the Republican controlled House claiming, we must hurry, hurry, hurry in order to avoid a default. Meanwhile the "compromise" will give the Republicans 99.44% of what they wanted. And it will quickly get cloture in the Senate and pick up enough votes from Red State Democrats to pass, and boom bang, it's excrement city.

But that's okay. Since it hasn't happened yet, let's all relax and be happy. The Titanic is not heading toward an iceberg. Everything will work out just great. Just like it did on the stimulus, on health care reform, and on the Bush tax cuts.

[sad sally]

34. Right. Very little information. Secret meetings. Why?

This isn't the transparency the President said there would be.

January 21, 2009

Promising "a new era of openness in our country," President Obama signed executive orders Wednesday relating to ethics guidelines for staff members of his administration.

"Transparency and the rule of law will be the touchstones of this presidency," Obama said.

THINK - it's not illegal...yet.

[jefferson_dem]

3. K/R.

My advice: grab the :popcorn:, kick back, and watch the :crazy:

[Horse with no Name]

4. with the caveat that he may not like it in the end. Let's be honest.

I love Dr. Dean. I respect him. He is the one that tries to keep the family together. He is trying to talk progressives off the ledge because he loves this party and doesn't want to see it fail.

[Joe the Revelator]

26. Since when?

[Horse with no Name]

27. Since when what? If you watched the tape--he explicitly said that. n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

29. No, not that...

The fact that he may not like it when everything comes out is a reasoned comment by Dr. Dean.

Since when is Howard Dean the kindly old grandpa of the party? That just isn't true.

[MannyGoldstein]

5. Perhaps you can answer the question

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=703632&mesg_id=703632

[Liberal Veteran]

6. Look on the bright side....

When they film the making of the Michael Jackson Pepsi commercial, there will be no shortage of understudies for the pivotal scene.

[Joe the Revelator]

10. Took me a minute....

:)

[Liberal Veteran]

13. Yeah...I had to reach a bit on that one.

[Le Taz Hot]

7. Howard Dean jumped the shark months ago.

He thinks charter schools are a peachy idea and I say that as his Central California coordinator in 2003 and 2004. When did Democrats decide that marriage equality is a "special right," that putting people in jail for taking state-sanctioned legal medication is a form of morality, that the war on drugs was effective, that giving tax breaks for the wealthy would stimulate the economy, that cutting social security and medicare INSTEAD OF ELIMINATING THE CEILING would balance the budget and starting or continuing illegal, immoral wars was affordable but education isn't . . .

It takes real talent to ignore all that.

[Joe the Revelator]

11. Oh, I see

:wtf:

[Doctor_J]

8. Well, this president has

given billions to Big Insurance in the form of mandatory private purchases, while never even bringing Single Payer to the table

Started and committed to another war, while continuing the ones started by Bush

Already offered 85% benefit cuts to poor people as opposed to 15% tax hikes - that's his starting point

Sold out labor in the WI situation after promising to "walk with them"

Blessed RI's firing of all public school teachers

Declared that civil rights should be "left to the states"

Extended the Bush tax cuts which got us to this mess in the first place

and all of these to try to garner votes and approval from people who hate his guts and declare out loud they wwould rather destroy the country than have him get re-elected

There's some facts for you.

[Kaleva]

12. Don't mistake DU for the real world.

Kucinich would have easily won the nomination in 2008 if it was up to DU.

[Joe the Revelator]

15. Oh I never had, and to be clear this wasn't directed at DU

But to liberals at large, in adherence to the rules of this message board.

[Renew Deal]

16. Actually, he would have lost to Obama.

But that's another matter.

Kucinich may have won in 2007.

[Kaleva]

25. I believe the DU poll I'm thinking about was posted in 2007.

Obama was still a relative unknown and was back in the pack with folks like Richardson, Biden, and Dodd. Kucinich had the most votes by a long shot. Edwards placed a distant 2nd and I think Hillary placed 3rd.

[EFerrari]

18. DU is generally two or three days ahead of the news cycle.

That's why people come here to browse.

[supraTruth]

23. Then it is time to REMIND EVERY1 that all the President has to do is tell boehner&cantor that the

FIRST CUTS if the Aug. DEADline is missed WILL BE CONgressional paychecks.

NOTHING gets a CONS' attention like going after HIS pocketbook!

GAME OVER!

[defendandprotect]

31. +1 --

[killbotfactory]

22. Heretic!

How darest thou defend Obama the Betrayer!

[Joe the Revelator]

24. He's a witch! He's a witch!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

28. I saw that! DU loves Dr. Dean! Now, they need to listen to Dr. Dean!! n/t

[defendandprotect]

30. Howard Dean signaled a while ago that he would drop principles to support party ... !!

And I doubt that Howard Dean doesn't know that the rightwing Koch Bros. funded

the DLC which infiltrated and influenced and was haborbored within the Democratic

Party for 20 years -- !!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Soundbites like "change", "transparency", "dumb wars", "hope"?

[CakeGrrl]

35. The Corporate MSM excels at divide-and-conquer through misinformation.

That it works so well is disturbing.

[Joe the Revelator]

36. The bait has been swallowed.

[Liberal Veteran]

37. Hook. Line. Sinker.

And half the damn rod.

[Safetykitten]

38. The ganashing of the teethy parts seems to be mostly coming from the ones...

that think he will not cut SS and Medicare.

[bemildred]

39. No sense of irony, I take it? nt

[Joe the Revelator]

40. Or maybe I can ask you the same.

:)