What's the deal with the flurry of duplicate posts about Chained CPI?

[MineralMan]

They started yesterday, and I think there are three almost identical ones on the first page of the Latest Posts. I believe that Nancy Pelosi announced today that there is nothing being discussed regarding this in the current talks.

Can someone explain? Why so many posts about something that is not really an issue? Is there some place that is pushing this meme or something?

[t0dd]

1. They're being deceptive.

They obvious want to make cuts to social security, but are disguising it with doublespeak and leaving out crucial details. I think the flurry of posts is useful so everyone is aware of what is really going on.

[emulatorloo]

2. Pelosi said this is not going to happen

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107081505dowjonesdjonline000464&title=pelosi-reassures-house-democrats-inflation-measure-switch-not-likely

Pelosi Reassures House Democrats Inflation Measure Switch Not Likely



By Kristina Peterson and Corey Boles, Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D., Calif.) reassured angry House Democrats that a proposal to change a key measure of inflation linked to Social Security was not likely to be part of a debt ceiling deal, lawmakers said Friday.

Pelosi calmed Democrats upset over a proposal to change how the Consumer Price Index is calculated that would curb Social Security benefits, dimming the prospects of an idea once floated as an area of bipartisan support.

"She basically reassured the group that there's no way it's going to happen," said Rep. Barney Frank (D., Mass.), following a Friday afternoon meeting of House Democrats in the basement of the Capitol building. "After this, I do not think reducing the CPI in any way is a viable option."

[MineralMan]

6. Yes, she did. And it was a direct quote from someone actually

involved in the discussions - Nancy Pelosi, herself. I can't find a source with the same ties to the discussion that says otherwise. Just some pundits and bloggers.

[emulatorloo]

12. I added a link to a story about Pelosi. Bloggers/pundits are paid to sensationalize

And create drama. They are floating lots of "speculation" in order to do that.

[Edweird]

52. How about Nancy herself.....

But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans.

"It would have to be something that would be put on the table ... that would address Social Security," Pelosi said. Not all lawmakers view it as a benefit cut, she said.

Rep. Kathy Hochul (D., N.Y.), whose recent special election victory in New York was partly fueled by backlash against Republican plans to change entitlement programs, said switching to a chained CPI was not a solution to the deficit problems.

"That hurts the people we need to protect," she said. "I'm not going there."


That's the last 4 paragraphs from the same article.

[Edweird]

38. "Not likely" /= "is not going to happen".

[phleshdef]

40. "Not Likely" comes from the article's author's title. The actual quote is "not going to happen".

[Edweird]

No, the actual "quote" is literally 'he said she said'. It starts off with "basically" - more weasel

worded double talk.

[phleshdef]

42. No. Its just "she said" and she said it herself on national television earlier today.

[Edweird]

47. "Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured"

But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans.

"It would have to be something that would be put on the table ... that would address Social Security," Pelosi said. Not all lawmakers view it as a benefit cut, she said.




That's not even remotely "not going to happen".

[phleshdef]

59. Not ruling out changing the way CPI is measure Moving to chained CPI

We need to change the way CPI is measured, Social Security recipients haven't gotten a raise in the past 2 years because of how flawed it is.

[Edweird]

64. Explain how changes to the CPI that would generate "savings" = an increase for seniors.

What kind of math is that?

[Edweird]

57. ::crickets::

[phleshdef]

60. Get off my nuts. I have a life outside of talking political bullshit on the internet.

[Edweird]

65. You couldn't pay me enough to get within reach of your nuts. Don't flatter yourself.

[MineralMan]

3. Is this really what they are going to do? Do you have some

information that demonstrates that? A link to a real story with real sources who might know?

I don't believe such a story exists. This is conjecture, I think, and part of the FUD that is being spread about the current high-level discussions.

If you can show me something that shows definitively that this is a serious proposal, I'll be happy to go and read the link. But, it has to be actually sourced to someone involved in the negotiations. It can't be just the musing of some pundit or blogger. Thanks in advance for that link.

[t0dd]

15. Pelosi views it as something that is "on the table"

But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans.

"It would have to be something that would be put on the table ... that would address Social Security," Pelosi said. Not all lawmakers view it as a benefit cut, she said.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107081505dowjonesdjonline000464&title=pelosi-reassures-house-democrats-inflation-measure-switch-not-likely

[Faryn Balyncd]

31. Rigging the CPI: the "IMMACULATE CONCEPTION" version of deficit reduction...w/o Congress... taking

Barry Bosworth of the Brookings Institute called the revised CPI an “ ‘immaculate conception‘ version of deficit reduction in which spending is cut without Congress taking the blame.”

http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2010/01/economists-serving-their-political-masters/



Boswoth made this statement after the last rigging of CPI back in the 90's. That was the formula that has already resulted in "no inflation" CPI statistics which have resulted in zero COLA for at least 2 years.


After the Boskin Commission no one thought anyone would try to extend the fraudulent calculations.....But they did not anticipate the greed of the Republicans, or the brazenness of Simpson-Bowles.

[sudopod]

37. Immaculate? Why is everything blamed on women? nt

[sudopod]

4. There's clearly an evil conspiracy afoot.

Good thing your clever e-investigation nipped it in the bud!

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sudopod]

30. It's much easier to categorize people as "other" than actually have to think about what they say.

I for one hate it when my world view gets shaken. That's why I'm looking forward to the day when Google can filter out everything that I disagree with. I read about it in this book, though the author seems really upset about it for some reason.

http://www.amazon.com/Filter-Bubble-What-Internet-Hiding/dp/1594203008/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1310159434&sr=8-1

I bet he's one of them, if you get my meaning.

[frylock]

41. how's that public option working out for you?

fucking ratfuckers.

[EFerrari]

45. Right, like the House liberals who are mobilizing and Bernie Sanders

and Senator Whitehouse and the folks over at CEPR. Dupes, ALL OF THEM!

:rofl:

[Edweird]

54. "Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured."

But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans.

"It would have to be something that would be put on the table ... that would address Social Security," Pelosi said. Not all lawmakers view it as a benefit cut, she said.

Rep. Kathy Hochul (D., N.Y.), whose recent special election victory in New York was partly fueled by backlash against Republican plans to change entitlement programs, said switching to a chained CPI was not a solution to the deficit problems.

"That hurts the people we need to protect," she said. "I'm not going there."


That's the last 4 paragraphs from the same article.
Please show me the "not going to happen" in that.

[Abq_Sarah]

5. Trial balloon?

I've been reading about it off and on since about 2009. Govt policy wonks love the idea because it reduces benefits as a stealth tax increase.

[Rex]

7. 3 posts does not equal 'so many posts', unless you believe

in a conspiracy. :tinfoilhat:

[Liberal Veteran]

11. When it's 3 posts with the same graphics from different sources?

One can't help but wonder.

[Rex]

Well it wouldn't be a first on DU.

As George "Pumphandle" Bush liked to say right after 9/11, "conspiracy theories abound".

[Liberal Veteran]

8. Damn, you beat me to the punch. I was just getting ready to ask the same question.

If I were the suspicious type, I'd suspect a concerted effort to drive an agenda and sow discord and doubt.

Ah, what the fuck. I am starting to wonder if I am not witnessing a textbook example of "overplaying one's hand."

[Autumn]

9. I've looked at a couple and recommended them. Very good

articles.A few different web site giving an analysis on it. I wouldn't call it a meme, more like informative. You can always block the posts.:shrug: You think maybe some conservative trolls are pushing it? I don't, it's an important, hot topic.

[spanone]

10. why is there a national debate on debt ceiling which throughout our history has been a non event

[JuniperLea]

53. Oh, spanone...

Surely you know!

Any opportunity to stick it to the black man.

[Ignis]

13. Dupes like this one?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1444422

[Rex]

14. Now, now that was an allusion...

toward another thread, or something...

[Ignis]

22. Some "duplicate topics" are more equal than others, I guess.

[Rex]

24. Let us check the irony meter for results.

[Ignis]

25. This one goes to 11.

[MineralMan]

18. Whoa! Thanks for the bump for my Kiss allusion!

That was really nice of you! Thanks for noticing.

[Ignis]

20. Thanks, I'm a nice guy. KISS is wretched, however.

Worse than Oasis.

[frylock]

43. oasis is a national treasure

[snooper2]

16. repuke talking points are common these days

some folks are still "bitter"

[patrice]

17. Whatever they do, some have to blame Obama & the Democrats for it, so ground is being prepared. nt

[woo me with science]

19. I'm glad to see them.

Chained CPI is a sneaky, stealth option to cut SS benefits. I'm glad to see people not falling for it and keeping it anything but stealth.

[EFerrari]

21. That's not what Nancy said, and very misleading.

She did not say "there is nothing being discussed regarding this", she said it would not happen.

I don't know if that's her wish or her line in the sand or what. I hope it is and I hope she manages to hold it.

[pa28]

28. Actually Pelosi is refusing to rule it out.

From Dow Jones Newswire:

"But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans."

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107081505dowjonesdjonline000464&title=pelosi-reassures-house-democrats-inflation-measure-switch-not-likely

We need to stay vigilant.

[EFerrari]

29. Thanks. You're right. Someone just brought that statement

to my attention.

Yes, this is no time to get complacent, agreed. :)

[woo me with science]

34. Thanks for this information.

Yes, it is necessary to keep the pressure on.

[On the Road]

23. I'm Not an Obama Hater by Any Stretch

but if a chained CPI proposal is even a remote possibility, it is well worth the flurry of threads. The impact over time is about the same order of magnitude as privatization.

On Edit: It's worth noting that Josh Marshall, who is neither a flaming radical or a Republican mole, is writing similar things on TPM.

[Samantha]

26. It was originally suggested by the Deficit "Cat Food" Commission

All you have to do is perform a simple Google search, and you can see discussion all over the place. But I thought I would give you a link to one source you might find the most reputable (as opposed to the discussion contained on Internet sites picking up on the ensuing chatter all over DC):

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/06/28/debt-ceiling-deal-could-mean-social-security-cuts

"That doesn't mean it wouldn't spark controversy. Although the cuts wouldn't be much at first, as time goes on they would grow, to as much as 5 percent for older retirees two decades from now. As poorer retirees are less likely to be able to adjust their living habits, they could be affected most by such changes. The president's fiscal commission recommended using the chained CPI for Social Security benefits, but also included increased payments to older and poorer workers to help with the effects. The senior advocacy group AARP has denounced the proposal, at least as part of a debt ceiling deal. "Any discussion around proposals that would impact Social Security must only happen in the context of strengthening retirement security, not balancing the budget," said Barry Rand, CEO of AARP. The long-term effect of the income tax adjustments could be even greater than the adjustments for Social Security. Eventually, the adjustments would mean that millions of Americans might find themselves in higher tax brackets, which could affect their career earnings. " (emphasis added.)

I wrote one of the threads I believe you are referencing because I believe it is a stealth opportunity for Social Security benefits to be cut, an exercise which implemented would have a more serious impact as a participant aged. It is very easy to minimize in words today how little these cuts will make in an beneficiary's monthly check (note: as needy as some beneficiaries are, I take exception to statement that any cut is acceptable), over a period of time, each year actually, the percentage of cut increases.

Things would be different if we as citizens could actually trust our government to tell us the literal truth; unfortunately, it has appeared to me for a long period of time that if I want to discern the literal truth, I must do my homework and actually dig it up myself. In writing on the thread that I previously posted, I attempted to encourage those who read it to consider what impact this might have on their benefits and to decide if they wanted to take action that would discourage our Democratic representatives from even considering this.

After the thread appeared, one DU'er thought the information was valuable enough to go out and do additional research, WillyT, and he wrote some subsequent threads which contain, I believe, very insightful interpretations as to the consequences of this chained CPI being applied both to Social Security participants and Federal retirement employees benefits.

Okay, I hope I have responded adequately to your concerns. I am going to take this US News Link and post it now on my original thread.

Sam

[woo me with science]

32. I am continually amazed at all the dismay on a Democratic board

over an assertive response to a trial balloon about SS cuts.

It's almost as though some would prefer everyone just kept quiet.

[sudopod]

33. SHH!

You're silencing his opinion if you don't let him silence your opinion!

[Kaleko]

36. Bulls-eye.

Gotta love these performative contradictions.

[frylock]

46. our men and women are over in iraqistanibyemen fighting for the OP's right..

to tell people to STFU.

[sudopod]

49. Amen, brother!

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:

[Edweird]

51. LOL

[EFerrari]

35. I think the idea is that we're supposed to be quiet and good

until our betters hand down their decisions.

Although, such a posture sorts better with freeperville than with a Democratic board where participatory democracy is not supposed to be a foreign concept.

[Edweird]

39. Well, this *is* a discussion board and people are discussing things that concern them.

[frylock]

44. it's almost like when "the list" gets posted multiple times per day..

weird......

[sudopod]

50. One list to rule them all

One list to find them, one list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them.

[peace4ever]

48. TPTB

Bet.



:evilgrin:

[Bluenorthwest]

55. It is a topic of current interest about which every American

should be fully informed. It is an issue, because it came up this week, and keeps coming up, and people should understand the fraud and theft of it. Also, they should understand the deception of those who would claim it is not a cut.
Hard for me to see how people getting important information should be a problem for thinking Democrats.
I have see the identical 'list of glories' posted on DU, a few times more than once in the same damn thread. Never a chirp of concern about that.

[Fumesucker]

58. Not concern perhaps but "The List" has certainly become an object of snark..

:hi:

[mzteris]

56. "someone" (s) . . . hmmmm....

and who might those "someones" be, eh? And what agenda might "they" have?

[KoKo]

61. The TRUTH about "CHAINED CPI" seems to bother you? Just wanted me to hype your post?

I did "hype" your post. Have you really thought about CPI.. I've always felt you were a "crossover--clever." I've found my vibes to seem to be true. You don't seem to read or link to posts that could cause discussion..and when asked you don't seem to answer.

I wish you well..and peace to you in your heart.

[sudopod]

62. LOL, he's super-mad.

well done! :D

[Odin2005]

63. Paid hacks, probably.