Does anybody here think anything positive could happen in a second Obama term?

[Ken Burch]

After all, if he lets SS and Medicare be raided, that is pretty much everything that matters. It's not like anything of the New Deal would still be left, and nothing progressive could ever be done by an administration that lets the entire New Deal die.

An administration is only progressive if it always pushes for social equality, and social equality only comes from economic justice. It can't come just from "rights".

And really, is what Steve Earle once called "four more years of things not getting worse" really worth a damn?

Everyone here does get it that he was never on our side now, right?

[Skittles]

1. no

[vi5]

2. If this is what he's doing within 18 months of an election...

Then it's clear he absolutely does not think what should be the Democratic base is going to go anywhere.

And he's probably right unfortunately.

I just think he's underestimating how much some of this stuff will piss of independents as well.

[fredamae]

20. Yes, but only if We

deliver him a super majority in both houses.

Stop and think about what the republicans are Saying on the floor, what they say to media, who the media supports, look at the fact that we are Not gaining Enough jobs, thats very true, but we are Not bleeding out 700,000 jobs Plus every month as we did when bush left office---Look at the more than 500 filibusters since the Dems took control in 2006--look at the bills they tried to pass to Help us---and who blocked them and why---Look at the republican govs and what they are doing, the power grabs etc..That is Your future if the pubs Win in 2012---and it will be Worse than what WI, NJ, FL are dealing with Now.

[RaleighNCDUer]

33. There have not been 500 filibusters since 2006.

There may have been 500 threatened filibusters - not the same thing.

[vi5]

43. Not this again....

The only way we get to even the thinnest of super majorities is with conservative dems. No matter which way you slice it that is the case. Even if we could get dems elected in some of these areas of the country and in some of these states the only way to do so would be for them to be conservadems. Which puts us with no more of a majority than we had the first 2 yearss of Obama's term.

The fact is that unless the leaders of our party (Obama included) get more forceful with the caucus and start making sure progressive dems are in charge both of the majority bodies themselves but also every important committee, and that Dems who don't caucus with the party are in some way held accountable or punished or primary challengers supported then he could have his 80 votes in the senate but would still not be able to get anything done.

And when will people realize that a lot of us on here aren't disputing that there are certain things he can't surmount or hurdles he can't get over just with his own power.

But when he chooses to use his bully pulpit not to strongly advocate for liberal causes, not to threaten the veto that is fully within his power, not not clearly state that what he prefers is the liberal, democratic solution, and instead uses that pulpit to trot out the "both sides need to..." bullshit, or trumpet the glory and wonder of the free market, or to leave huge doors open for what he's willing to negotiate on or give away.....that's what drives so many of us batty and make us feel that he's not truly on our side.

It's a pretty basic concept and the one most of us were taught as kids. If you try your hardest...if you do your best...and you still fail.....that's o.k.......but to not try your hardest....to not do your best...and to not fight for success......that's not o.k. And to believe Obama has done everything in his power to forcefully advocate and fight for the liberal, democratic position on most of the things...even the things many point to as his successes....is to just be very naive.

[montanacowboy]

Hell NO

n/t

[ZombieHorde]

3. President Obama's Supreme Court picks are mostly positive.

So yes, I do think something positive could happen in a second Obama term.

[Ken Burch]

4. He won't get to make any more.

The rest of the Supreme Reich are all healthy as horses.

[SDuderstadt]

7. "Supreme Reich"

Brilliant, Burch.

[izquierdista]

30. Don't be so glum

Fat Tony could do a Jerry Falwell any day now. Face down in his gravy smothered biscuits.

[COLGATE4]

32. Nope. Ruth Bader Ginsburg has cancer and has announced

that she will retire in the next 2 years. Big vacancy there.

[bluestate10]

58. I feel you are wrong.

Ginsburg will almost certainly retire during the next presidential term.

Breyer is aging. One only need to look back to Souter to see what a justice with varied interests may decide to do instead of stay on the bench.

Fat Tony is a smoker, very old and grossly overweight. One can't fuck with nature for long and not die.

Thomas may be forced off the bench for ethical reasons, ala Felix Frankfurter.

Roberts has a mysterious conditions that cause him to go into potentially fatal seizures occasionally.

Kennedy is a very old man who shows his age and seem to obviously be declining in vibrancy.

You may take chances. I have no intention of gambling with a high probability that two thirds of the Supreme Court may get appointed by the person that wins the 2012 election.

[Ozymanithrax]

5. As a lame duck he is not beholden to Democrats and voters...

he does what he wants.

[Ken Burch]

17. That worked out so well in the second term of the last Democratic president.

(well, he did do what he wanted...)

Nothing can outweigh compromising on SS and Medicare. Everything else is meaningless. He's not even going to try for anything else. We can already assume that.

It'll just be Michelle telling kids to not eat junk food. Oh, and staying in the Middle East wars forever.

[laugle]

31. It's nice that someone

here is thinking about 4 more years of Obama, when he doesn't have to face re-election and will probably give away the store to the GOP!

I'm tired of being taken for granted, if the mid-terms were an indicator, people will not come out to vote for him or will go third party!

One things for sure, you cannot take him at his word!

[Ozymanithrax]

62. I don't see a legitimate third part challange...

They would have to appear soon in order to raise the money necessary to compete.

If he sells us down the river on Social Security and Medicare, and somehow gets Democrats in the Senate and House to back the deal, I would find it hard to support any opponent with Democrat attached to the name.

I stood with him Democrats through Health Care and eve accepted the extension of the Bush tax cuts as an evil necessary to get extensions on unemployment. Social Security and Medicare are a bridge to far for me.

[defendandprotect]

6. Koch Bros DLC and Obama turning party upside down -- NO in 2012 -- !!!

[jaxx]

8. Of course positive will happen in a second term, it has in the first.

He's always been on our side.

Unrec for saying he never was.

[Ken Burch]

13. Surrendering on the tax cuts was half of the end. This would be the other half

Nothing could ever outweigh either of those, especially since he's given up on ever fixing healthcare and expects us to give up as well. Put that together with the Afghan war, and the few tiny rights gains really don't matter.

Dammit, we never had to settle for this.

[jaxx]

21. Ask the unemployed who got 13 more months of benefits.

Or the rest of us with income under 250k who kept our tax cuts.

Giving the rich those tax cuts for 2 more years sucked, the President said it sucked. But it got relief for the ones who count.....we the little people.

You may choose to write us off but the President didn't. Those 'few tiny rights' were food on the table.

Purity is nice with butter spread on thick, but first you have to be able to afford the bread.

[SDuderstadt]

28. Funny how the poster...

left that part out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

38. Ask the 99ers who got shit.

Ask the millionaires who kept their tax cuts.

Ask the insurance companies that got 30 million mandated new victims.

Ask the men and women who came home in body bags.

Ask the political prisoners in the war on medical marijuana.

Fuck purity - this is about basic human rights.

[SDuderstadt]

42. Lay out your scenario...

Please show us how Obama could have done it differently. Please be specific.

[jaxx]

47. I'm sure the millionaires were happy. The 99ers were screwed.

The next 3 items have nothing to do with the December act.

Basic human rights....yes, they are for everyone which is why the little people count. Getting the most for us was prime.

[SDuderstadt]

22. Let's see your scenario...

Burch. Lay it out for us.

[haikugal]

9. No

I feel like he laughs at us....he isn't concerned with what 80% of the country wants. We should have known when he said Lieberman was his mentor...I mean really. We have to do better in this country, there isn't anyone on a white horse waiting in the wings, it's up to us.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DJ13]

11. At one time I hoped he might become more progressive when he won in 2012

But I also thought he would begin to act more progressive here in 2011, since it was the hope of progressivism that got him elected in 2008 after the conservatism of Bush.

His apparent selling out on Social Security shows he's still in his natural conservative mode, so that means the progressive we voted for in 08 was a marketing gimmick, not the real Obama.

That means I cant see him changing in a second term.

[Rex]

12. Sure.

I am always the eternal optimist. Obama could turn things around, if he wanted to.

[RaleighNCDUer]

40. I am the eternal pessimist.

Obama could turn things around, if he wanted to.

[Rex]

49. Nice to meet you...I bet there are a lot of us around some just unwilling

to get involved in the frey. It is GOOD that you are an eternal pessimist, because you can keep me in check when I get 'over the rainbowish' about life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. :hi:

[RaleighNCDUer]

55. And I, at the same time, need those Panglossian reminders

to not neglect my own garden.

:hi:

[Obamanaut]

14. no

[hifiguy]

15. About all I can think of is

that he might come out, no pun intended, as supporting gay marriage and making one or two SCOTUS appointments. Beyond that, nothing.

[LiberalAndProud]

16. Are you looking for a challenger?

I don't see any on the horizon. I'm not one to put my hopes in an, as yet, unmanifested illusion. What is your agenda Ken? Do you think it's better that we should all just sit on our hands in November 2012 and bewail our fate? I'm willing to try to get Obama a less obstinate Congress. I am willing to see if he doesn't have to work with asshats every day of his working life, that maybe he can be a much better president. Are the odds good? No. But those are the best odds we have.

[XemaSab]

18. Nah

I'm at the point where the dude can't even disappoint me any more.

[laugle]

63. It's called numb!

And you are not alone..........

[Stinky The Clown]

19. No

[Zen Democrat]

23. No.

But I get it that a lot of people don't understand the FACTS! Obama never had the 60 votes for the stimulus in the first place. He had 58 Democrats until June 2009 because Kennedy had been out since the Inauguration and Al Franken was locked in a recount battle. The Republicans put up a solid front and he had to deal hard to get a couple of Republican votes -- and the price was turning infrastructure money into tax cuts. It's the fault of Republicans that the stimulus wasn't bigger.

As far as the Bush tax cuts go -- he had to deal to keep unemployment insurance extended. He couldn't do that by fiat.

And he did get Bin Laden didn't he?

If the Republicans had won in 2008, don't kid yourself that things wouldn't be much, much worse. It's called Morons vs. Intelligent People, and the Morons are willing to sacrifice everything because .... they're morons.

[laugle]

45. In hindsight, do you

really feel that extending the tax cuts for a few more weeks of unemployment insurance was a good deal for this country? I think it shows his failure of leadership. Not to mention his waiting until the last minute to negotiate on something that could have been handled prior to the mid-term elections.

[RaleighNCDUer]

50. You mean the great speaker - the great compromiser -

the silver-tongued devil who was able to bring together the left, the moderate, the conservative Dems and the Independents for an overwhelming electoral victory was unable to convince just TWO republicans to do what is best for the country?!

But, what about those "what the fuck has Obama done" lists? How can he be so overwhelmingly powerful and successful, and so pitifully helpless before the mean old republicans at the same time?

Makes you wonder.

[TheKentuckian]

64. The UI was willfully made a football instead of just indexing the benefits to the

unemployment rate and it totally backfired.

The game theory bullshit is crazy when you are screwing around with our people, our country, our fucking habitat, and our future when the correct decisions are obvious and should be strenuously and unabashedly fought for. That is win or lose.

The TeaPubliKlans didn't beat us out of this simple fix for what was clearly a long term problem because some wanted to beat the pukes up with regular votes against needed benefits and others wanted to get folks off the roles and lower the rate for political benefit regardless of who got kicked off the lifeboats.

Obama is as dangerous as a TeaPubliKlan because he is setting us up to undo all we have accomplished in exchange for giving over to the mercies of the global corporations.

Our only hope is to aggressively move against the Turd Way element and give this country and our people some real options to get out of the hole or to at least stop digging.

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. yes, supreme court nominees. Hello!!!!!!!!!!

[joeybee12]

25. It will only be worse...that's why he needs to be primaried...nt

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mmonk]

27. Not really. Especially with all the new Republican Party gerry mandering.

We've reached a point where movement politics is going to have to take hold.

[RaleighNCDUer]

29. He'd be a lame duck from day one. nt

[madrchsod]

34. he`ll realize his legacy will not be what he thought it would be

he`ll either accept that fact or work to reverse what he let happen


hey..i can dream..can`t i?

[L0oniX]

35. "pin drops"

[flamingdem]

36. Unrec of a kneejerk reaction when we don't even know what will happen yet nt

[Cattledog]

37. No. Obama's too weak to lead.

[cwydro]

39. Nope.

I won't vote for him. Period.

[mitchtv]

41. Sadly,I gave up a long time ago as "just another politician"

I am incapable of being disappointed. Do I think anything good can come out of it? well yeah, if we put the pukes out to pasture, Nancy will help us out, if not , only if you are a repuke.

[annabanana]

44. Only with a super majority.. or a correction to the filibuster debacle. . n/t

[geckosfeet]

46. As much as you can count denying the whitehouse to repuke positive.

[JoePhilly]

48. DU's loudest whiner's would be derprived of the joy they would feel by his defeat.

So that's a definite positive.

[samrock]

51. Yes!!

For 4 years we know if one of the 5 conservatives on the Supreme Court retire/die they will get replaced and change the court..

[lunatica]

52. Yes, if teabaggers are replaced by democrats in the election.

It's Congress who has hobbled Obama no matter what he does. Congress has more power than the President and Congress changes every two years. There is plenty to hope for.

[LWolf]

53. No.

Why would I, given his determination to do the opposite his first term?

[philly_bob]

54. Definitely. Obama with an eye on history, not on Republicans! (nt)

[saras]

56. IF we elect a supermajority of progressives (not corporocrats)

And it wouldn't hurt if Obama had the CIA off a couple of Supreme Court justices, confiscate a few right-wing fortunes, and otherwise make use of the shadow government he inherited from Bush and shows no interest in dismantling, to get stuff done the way Bush's team did while Bush oralized over goats.

Oh, and pigs will have to carry passengers more efficiently than Boeing or Airbus.

[bluestate10]

57. Yes. Lots.

For one, no republican will be leading the country. Second, up to four, possibly more Supreme Court seat can come open, would rather see President Obama fill those seats. Third, after struggling through a first term to right the country, President Obama will lord over robust job growth, record prosperity and dramatic reduction in the budget deficit and debt during a second term. When handed a shit sandwich, one can't make apples overnight. It amazes me to see the posts where an OP or poster lauds FDR, those people should go read the history of FDR's first term.

[underpants]

59. If it is half as positive as the first term it will be fantastic

[LooseWilly]

60. "Could"? Sure... he "could" be abducted by space aliens and have a "progressive spine" inserted...

He "could" admit that he really has a magic wand and stop bothering to worry about Republican feelings, or blue dog feelings for that matter... and just get some things done.

Somehow I doubt any of that is going to happen though.

[Marr]

61. If this is how he governs with an election ahead of him, imagine what he'd be like as a lame duck.

I expect he'd make GW Bush look like a moderate once he doesn't even have to put up the phony front anymore. He and his pals seem intent on demolishing the party itself; alienating it's traditional constituencies and deconstructing the things on which the party's support is built.

[defendandprotect]

65. After 2010 loss due to betrayals on MEDICARE FOR ALL, announced more compromise!!

[some guy]

66. Yes, of course.

could is a word that implies possibility. I live in the real world, almost anything is possible.

Could is like slim and none, but slim hasn't left the room yet.

expect is a different word.
would is a different word.

I'd have given a different answer if you'd used either of them.

[johnaries]

67. You should get your facts straight. nt

[somone]

68. Same Shit Different Term

Of course he'll promise to fight very hard on an unspecified date in 2016