If Obama Cuts Social Security... Is this the last straw? by David Sirota

[Better Believe It]

If Obama Cuts Social Security...
The president indicates that funding for the hallmark Democratic program is on the table. Is this the last straw?
by David Sirota
July 8, 2011

.... when a political candidate promises to try to pass a public option to compete with private insurers, attempt to crack down on Wall Street abuse, do what he can to stop unfair trade deals, oppose extending his predecessors tax cuts and avoid initiating initiate costly new wars sans congressional approval, and then once in office works to kill a public option, refuses to prosecute Wall Street crimes, presses the rigged trade deals he opposed, supports the extension of his predecessor's tax cuts and starts a new war in Libya with no congressional authorization -- whose fault is it that he ends up in reelection trouble?

But, then, merely citing this record brings accusations of treason, at least from Democratic staffers, pundits and activists in Washington. In an age of politics that has melded politicians with celebrity and activism with starfucking, to be a rank-and-file progressive and honestly examine a candidate's record during a reelection campaign is to risk being portrayed as a dangerous, seditious, ideologically zealous revolutionary.

This is not real politik, it is not triangulation and it isn't even Bush-ism (that is, taking unpopular positions and then just arrogantly pursuing them without regard for public will). No, we are watching a sort of Orwellian dystopia. Indeed, it is a sight to behold: a regime that believes it can say one set of things over and over and over again, and then do exactly the opposite.

Inherent in that ideology is the assumption that Americans -- and particularly Democratic voters -- are either too stupid to see the heist in process, or if they do see the heist, are too entranced by their president's power/fame/celebrity/charisma to want to do anything about it, even if what's being pilfered is Democrats' Social Security crown jewel.

Read the full article at:

http://www.salon.com/news/david_sirota/2011/07/07/obama_social_security_cuts/index.html

[Cleita]

1. It is for me and I put it on his website email. Whether he

will ever see it remains to be seen. I said I would not vote for him if he messes with either SS or Medicare. As a senior and a widow, it's a deal breaker for me.

[marlakay]

64. I did same thing and while i usually dont get response even

If i ask for one i got immediate response with a bunch of links to how he is working so hard to fix the economy.

[Cleita]

65. Huh! I got nothing. I guess it's because I said I wouldn't

vote for him if he messed with those programs, so I guess he doesn't considering answering me worthwhile because he is going to mess with those programs and doesn't need my vote. Nice...:-(

[bjobotts]

92. Beware of those trtying to divide and conquer.Sirota is full of shit.Look at Obama's huge list of ac

accomplishments. Bet you and he can't name any. That's how good the corporate controlled propaganda media has muddled your thinking.. The deficit bullshit is the least important of our problems but the Media has made it seem like it's the number one issue.

[bjobotts]

93. Obama never said anything about social security cuts.He used the word 'entitlements'

[bjobotts]

95. Obama is operating in the most toxic political environment where repubs try to destroy our economy

[bjobotts]

96. Never intending to cut anything he used this word as a gimmich saying Now put tax cuts on the table.

[bjobotts]

97. What's wrong with you people?Why do you keep cutting him down and ignore what he's up against.

[bjobotts]

99. Can't you see this is what repubs want us to do, turn on him whille they filibuster his every move.

[bjobotts]

102. Make demands yes, but he's still the best we got going for us.Pelosi passed 240 bills killed by sena

[bjobotts]

103. Remember, the last time a pres.accomplished so much in 2yrs,booze was illegal

[bjobotts]

104. Let's not forget who caused and IS causing ALL our problems.Attack them

[rhett o rick]

126. We are soldiers, Obama is the general. If he wont attack them we are lost.

How do soldiers fight w/o leadership?

[Creideiki]

176. Remember--the last time a Democrat screwed up this badly

he lost miserably.

The time before, the Democrat at least had the sense to bow out gracefully.

Hope you've been to the gym. That water must be getting really heavy!

[rhett o rick]

125. Would you choose just one excuse? nm

[rhett o rick]

127. Exactly. The Third Way is trying to divide the Democrats. Whose side are you on? nm

[RayStar]

121. Absolutely

If he caves in on ss and medicare he is done. I will not vote at all.

[MannyGoldstein]

2. "Who th $%^# else ya gonna vote for, chumps?"

Obama can moon us at will. We're kind of fucked, unless an actual Democrat primaries him.

This is the core of his belief system.

[PATRICK]

7. The luxury of electoral screwiness

dictates I don't HAVE to vote for Obama. If he NEEDS my vote his goose is cooked nationally whatever happens in NY, even if he loses it by one vote. We are not exactly a swing state battleground, you know those little pieces of the game that you can pump all your love into and screw everyone else. So I am always voting Working Families Party, which is a truly moderate affair, whose first rule is do no harm to moderate and liberal Dems, and only fields the rare local candidate when it won't toss power into the GOP fart of darkness.

With this I try to explain exactly where my 42 years of voting straight Dem actually stands. The Dem leadership in general seems a bit confused about this and it would do some good if every Dem in the state switched parties(WFP) to drag the good guys out of the suicidal toilet they are constantly self flushing. No enablement of Conservatives or the GOP bad joke, just a Fourth Way Dem Party. Fourth of July, Fourth Dem Revolution(FDR) New New Deal for the common man. The common man, you know, the one who can't afford the campaign circus for public office but won't take bribes.

[Dan]

9. Think outside the box...

[robinlynne]

37. Thank-you.

[bpiet2000]

14. That is what worries me

If Obama touches the big 3 its going to create a 3rd party candidate who will suck votes away from Obama and then we will wind up with President Bauchman.

[olegramps]

30. That is just about what the working class deserves. They sold them selves out long ago.

Its like Animal Farm. Unions bad. Inheritance Death tax bad. Big Business good. Health care bad. Financial reform bad. Public education bad. Brain-washing religious schools good. Tax cuts for wealthy good. Tax cuts provide employment....etc., etc.

[lark]

34. Speak for yourself

You may think working peole like yourself deserve this, but working folks I know sure as hell don't. We've consistently voted for the Dems and been consistently screwed by most. If Obama thinks that he can promote only repug memes, screw us at every single fucking turn and lie about it always, well, he's over-estimated our stupidity. God, I hope the Senators find enough backbone to filibuster any bill that cuts ssi in any shape form or fashion, ditto for Medicare. Let Medicare negotiate for drug prices, that's a good change, but one you don't see Obama backing, just like he doesn't back raising (eliminating it is every better) the cap for ssi.

Anyone who gives Obama a shred of a doubt is just self deluded and ignorning facts. Fact is Obama is not a lbieral and not even really a Democrat, he's a self serving trojan horse brought to us by Bushco to do what they couldn't do, hand the ssi surplus to the rich and fuck all the rest. It's totally sickening!!!

:mad:

[olegramps]

169. Sorry but the working class deserted the unions.

They bought the management's propaganda and union membership went from 36% to 6%. The working class lost its ability to force their representatives in congress to protect their interest. The result was the massive out-sourcing of jobs along with tax breaks to do so. Trade agreements were not only designed to impoverish American workers but also provided wealthy corporations the opportunity to take advantage of desperate foreign workers. As a former life long union employee and supporter of organized labor these are unfortunately the sad facts. I increasingly saw young people come into union shops and refuse to pay union dues simply because they could get the same benefits that the union had WON without paying. I saw workers voting for so-called Right to Work Laws that were designed to destroy unions. We came a long way for the days of Eisenhower who stated it very simply: Anyone who opposes unions is stupid. But again that was when the wealthy were taxed at a 90% rate.

[olegramps]

171. Don't you comprehend that without strong unions the worker has no representation.

This is the point. How can well informed workers vote for Right to Work Laws that are designed to impoverish them? The do so when they believe the propaganda that they are being force feed without any realization that they are digging their own grave.

[inna]

149. pretty vile comment and meme, actually. This is NOT what the working class deserves.

[olegramps]

170. It isn't meant to be vile; just the sad fact when workers shot their own self in the foot.

[robinlynne]

39. and then maybe the Democratic party will move the to the left and get strong.

Maybe they will get it. Maybe they will start to represent the people and the people will rise up as they did before against Bush.

or maybe the Party will get it BEFORE the election and remove their support for Obama's policies. There is more than a year until the election. Maybe a progressive will primary him and win. I don't accept this vote for the lesser of two evils. Sometimes I do accept it as what we need to do. but this administration is WAY out of whack.

[Mimosa]

49. From your lips...

Robinlynne, I hope that happens.

[RC]

105. Naa, what will happen is that Obama will start campaigning from the center-Left

and we will believe him. He will be re-elected and we will all be all but finished off and ready for the Republicons to finish the job in 2016.

Obama really needs to be Primaried for the sake of the country.

[indy legend]

85. And it will be no ones fault but O'bama's

[Raksha]

133. You know something? That's NOT our fucking problem!

Re "If Obama touches the big 3 its going to create a 3rd party candidate who will suck votes away from Obama and then we will wind up with President Bauchman."

Well, it could very well be our problem (and it would be a damn big one) but it's NOT our responsibility to prevent it by voting for Obama unconditionally, even if he sticks a knife in the backs of seniors and the disabled. My Social Security pension is my sole source of income, so it would very definitely be a knife in *MY* back.

I swear, the "President Michele Bachmann" bogeyman, or bogeywoman, is starting to look like a kind of blackmail of the electorate. I wouldn't be at all surprised if her "candidacy" is the product of some murky back room deal between the PTB of BOTH parties. Just let the Repukes run the biggest imbecile they can find and Obama is sure to get re-elected no matter what he does.

[davidwparker]

141. Oh, this dribble used to be (fear, fear) or President Palin.

If O caves again, this time on SS and Medicare, he lost the election himself

[Selatius]

18. It could easily take $500 million to win a national primary.

You'd have to have an army of supporters ready to hit the ground running with the communications/fund-raising infrastructure necessary to wage a political war to the gates of D.C. and back again against an incumbent Democrat.

You need the support of the wealthy to pull off an attempt to primary an incumbent in the White House with the way things stand. That's the catch-22. The Founders weren't far thinking enough when they wrote the First Amendment in without a requisite for publicly funded elections being a 1st Amendment issue of the people to be heard over the corporations' screaming.

[bjobotts]

107. Campaigns should not start till 3mos before elections.All air time made free. Stop the profiteering

from elections. We own the airways. Make campaign money inefficient. Won't take millions if millions aren't charged.

[JDPriestly]

90. We need to ask Bernie Sanders, Kucinich, Alan Grayson, Feingold

and any other Democrats who are forceful enough and liberal enough to speak for us to challenge Obama. That is our only hope.

Feingold and Grayson might be willing to go out on a limb. Neither of them is actually in Congress right now. A national campaign even if way underfunded just might do them good.

[bjobotts]

108. That's political suicide and they all know it.Besides they could not accomplish more than Obama

[bjobotts]

110. One man can not do it.Not in this toxic poisonous political atmosphere.Shallow thinking

[bjobotts]

112. Not even FDR(whom they tried to kill)could do anything until he got majorities in congress

[bjobotts]

113. Dems never had control of the senate since it takes a super majority to pass anything so

all of the accomplishments Pelosi produced out of the House which would have turned the nation around (over 240 bills) all died in the senate by filibuster. The republicans used the senate to kneecap Obama's agenda and would have done the same to Kucinich. Sanders and Feingold.

[bjobotts]

115. Repubs used the senate to kneecap Obama's agenda &would do same to Sanders,Kucinch,Feingold etc.

[Faygo Kid]

118. Never quite saw this many self-responses in one thread. Mods?

Is this kind of self promotion OK by you? Seems to skew the whole purpose of discussion.

[inna]

150. he always does that.

to inflate the post count, perhaps? :shrug: not sure what's the purpose, but it's definitely annoying, as far as posting behavior goes.

[muffin1]

130. Ummm..

You are replying to yourself...repeatedly.

[davidwparker]

145. Excuse. Why do (R)'s always get their way using the same

Senate rules. Why was there no reform of filibuster rules when the new Congress began.

But, keep spinning. I've enjoyed your spin throughout this thread.

[davidwparker]

144. Like the one O started with? They it a supermajority.

[rhett o rick]

128. Doesnt matter if you are already dead. Obama cant fight the oligarchs.

No use arguing whether he wants to or not, he cant defeat the oligarchs. We must revolt (non-violently). Until you realize this we are screwed.

[JDPriestly]

158. I disagree. If you find out more about Obama, you realize

that he has always been a free market person. Inevitably, he supports doing away with Social Security. He really has not tried to appeal to older Democrats. He has done absolutely nothing for him. All he talks about is cuts to Medicare.

Do you know who Pete Peterson is? He is the arch-foe of Medicare. Google it. I have posted the links so many times, I'm not going to do it again.

And then Google Timothy Geithner, Peterson and appoint Federal Reserve, and you will learn that Geithner was appointed to the NY Fed by a committee headed by Geithner.

Then Google members of the "bipartisan" deficit reduction council that Obama appointed. Most of them were anti-Social Security regardless of their party. There was only a small minority that was pro-Social Secuirty.

Those facts make me suspect that Obama is at is core, anti-Social-Security.

It is very disappointing to me, especially since I worked hard to get Obama elected. He pretended to be interested in protecting Social Security benefits when he was running for president. But then, this is only one of the campaign promises that he has forgotten now that he is in office.

It isn't just that he isn't progressive enough for me. I was originally an Edwards supporter (in the presidential primaries) and of course was totally disillusioned when Edwards' marital infidelity was discovered.

But now, I would rather have Edwards, who strayed in his marriage but understood the economic realities of ordinary people, than Obama, who cares only about the corporation and the rich.

[davidwparker]

142. +1

[Smarmie Doofus]

179. +1 . Someone 's gotta do it. nt

[JDPriestly]

94. We can elect a very Democratic Congress. We can put all our

efforts into getting name recognition and attention for the most liberal candidates in any state or district. This will require getting out and talking to voters door-to-door and everywhere we can.

We may lose, but I assure you that Obama is not going to do well in any election if he cuts Social Security benefits and Medicare. Informed elderly voters will not support him. It is a waste of time to support him. We should put a lot of energy into unseating Tea-Baggers with supporters of Medicare and Social Security and higher taxes on the rich and on capital gains earnings.

Ironically, Obama is falling into a trap set by Republicans IF HE REALLY AGREES TO CUT MEDICARE AND THE SOCIAL SECURITY COLAS, because Obama will get all the blame if Medicare and Social Security are cut.

Obama is a young man. He will be around a long time. I would not want to be in his shoes if he has to live with this once he is out of office.

Look at GWB. No intelligent person wants him around. No one cares about him. He wasted all our money and killed a lot of people. Nobody looks up to him. Nobody.

Obama will bear the burden of what happens if Social Security benefits and Medicare are cut. This is his call, and he is choosing to save Wall Street and the bondholders and let America's seniors suffer.

We should focus on electing progressive Democrats and forget the rest. We should also try to get the progressive message out there and help people understand our views on the economy. That's the basic work that has to be done before we can elect a president who can do the job.

[neoralme]

161. No one. Facilitating traitors never works; it simply encourages them

to become bigger traitors.

[yourout]

3. If he cuts SS he will lose in a landslide.

And we will lose the Senate along with it.

[Fuddnik]

26. And why would he care?

He's rich. He's made history. He can go on tour with Clinton and Poppy. Maybe even drag "W" along for jokes.

He can now retire and live off us suckers with a healthy pension and paid bodyguards, paid with tax dollars. And when he hits 67, he can even collect SS on top of it.

[RebelOne]

48. He definitely would because he would lose my vote.

I am on social security and cannot afford any cuts to my benefits.

[bjobotts]

117. He's never said a word about cutting social security, ever.It has nothing to do with the deficit.

[bjobotts]

120. See how the corporate media has fucked you up.You're ranting about a fantasy

[bjobotts]

122. Next it will be"if Obama puts us in chains then I'll never vote for him again"It's stupid.

[SnoopDog]

4. Yes, if Obama cuts SS, it is the last straw...

SS has nothing to do with the deficit. We all pay for it with every single freaking paycheck.

Cutting SS means Obama is part of those wanting to destroying America...

[Enthusiast]

22. "We all pay for it with every single freaking paycheck."

Until Obama's plan to cut the dedicated funding mechanism comes to fruition?

[defendandprotect]

5. Let's face it, Obama already hurt the Dem party as we saw in 2010 ....!!!

So -- yes -- Obama will go down in flames and it will finish off the Dem Party --


Koch Bros. will be happy --


And Obama will go off to his reward as all presidents do!!

[spooked911]

25. I agree

he set himself up to go down... unless it is all rigged, which we can't rule out

[bjobotts]

106. Bullshit! Go troll elsewhere.You're expectations were unrealistic.You don't know what he's done

[donheld]

153. I call bullshit on your bullshit

[defendandprotect]

155. There was a clear message from voters in 2008 on Obama ... a message you don't want to hear ...

Obama betrayed citizens in making back room deals with Big Pharma and

the private H/C industry -- in fact Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanuel "crowed" about

"preserving the private H/C system" --- !!


You remember Koch Bros/DLC Rahm, right? You remember Obama eloping into the White

House with him on Day #1 ... and the team they picked -- the very same people who

created the financial coup!* Otherwise known as a "depression" --




* See: Catherine Austin Fitts -- anywhere on internet

[Creideiki]

177. No, no. You're doing it wrong.

You're supposed to scream, "You never really LOVED Him! :cry:"

That's much more effective.

[BlueDemKev]

6. I have to believe this is a posturing scheme....

....if he's serious about cutting S.S. and Medicare, Obama has the biggest idiots for political advisors. Protecting these two vital programs is a core principle of the Democratic Party and has been most beneficial to us in recent months. There is no logic in this proposal unless he's "offering" cuts in S.S. & Medicare in exchange for tax adjustments, figuring the Republicans will say no. Then Obama can go to independent voters and say "See? I even offered cutting some funding from S.S. and Medicare and even then they refused! Republicans are SO inflexible."

Mr. President, I hope upon hope this is what you're doing....we're watching VERY closely.

[Horse with no Name]

17. I'd need to start drinking or doing drugs to jump to that conclusion.

and I have no intention of doing either.

SO...even though I will be one of the ones that can say "I told you so"...as I step through the vestiges of what USED to be our country...it won't make me happy to have been 100% correct about who he was.

[liberation]

79. Nah, you just need large doses of denial

it is pretty natural and chemical free.

[Divernan]

75. You have to face political reality.

There is nothing the Republican leadership & their corporate overlords want more than gutting SS/Medicare/Medicaid. W announced it as his number one goal for his second term, and what stopped him were the Democrats in Congress.

The Republicans will quickly snap up any offer Obama makes which will significantly impair SS/M/M. For show, they will trade off some future tax increases, knowing that they can always pass legislation to cancel those increases. But once SS/M/M programs have been stripped and gutted, it would be nigh impossible to resuscitate them.

[defendandprotect]

156. It's not about "politics" ... it's about corporate $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ ...

[DeSwiss]

8. K&R n/t

[neverforget]

10. K n R!

[Sarah Ibarruri]

11. Yes. If Obama dares to cut SS, Medicare, and/or Medicaid, for me, it will be the last straw nt

[defendandprotect]

157. Obama has already cut COLA's which will turn SS into a poverty wage ...

Two years -- no COLA's -- and the CPI has, at any rate, been totally gimmicked --

If Obama doesn't know that he shouldn't be in the Oval Office!!

[neoralme]

159. For me too. If he does this, I will still vote for Democrats, but I

will not vote for him or support him in any way, shape or form. Obama was a plant. He does one job after the other for his corporate masters. Cutting entitlements will be his last job for them. If he performs this, the Democratic Party will splinter until it finally ends.

[TacticalPeek]

12. "Is *this* the last straw?"

This increasingly posed question is becoming so very funny that it is becoming very sad.

[neoralme]

160. Absolutely. One begins to wonder if Obama started blowing up

orphanages in a major city, some Democrats would simply pass it off as simply another chess move by a wonderfully complicated man. I am more surprised at the progressive wing of the Party than I have ever been.

[guitar man]

13. Yes

Living toward the bottom of the food chain like I do, SS is probably all I'll have come retirement time. I had to cash out what was left of my battered little 401k to survive in this economic mess. Ive voted in every election since I was 18. I'll be 48 this year. I've been paying into SS since I was 16.

If he cuts SS, I will probably just sit out the election next year. There's no point wasting gas to drive to the polls since not a single soul on the ballot will have any intention of representing my interests. Waste of time and money to go.

[pnwmom]

15. No. Not unless you prefer destroying S.S. and Medicare completely

which is what the Rethugs are determined to do -- and will claim they have a mandate to do -- if they get back in power.

If the President asked me, I would say don't touch either of them. But if it's a choice between crashing into another Great Depression -- which is guaranteed if we defaulted on our bills -- or doing something to slow the rate of S.S. increases -- then I'd still support him against any of the Rethugs.

And it would be easy to support him if his cuts come from reducing waste, eliminating unnecessary testing, and lowering exorbitant margins at for-profit health providers and insurers.

[Edweird]

20. Really? Then why did W fail so bad when he tried?

[pnwmom]

40. For one thing, the tea party didn't exist back then,

for another, the country wasn't in the midst of a huge recession. People are desperate, and desperate people sometimes can be lured to do stupid things.

[Edweird]

42. Or how about the reality of unified partisan opposition. It REQUIRES a "dem" to attack SS.

[pnwmom]

45. Obama's not attacking Social Security. It's the Republicans

who are on an all out war against it, to the point where even conservative papers like The Economist are calling them out.

[Edweird]

46. Bullshit. Obama's response has been nothing but weasel worded double talk.

Same with Pelosi.
If it really was 'the republicans' Obama and the rest of the Dem leadership could easily state in no uncertain terms that is the case. But they haven't. What they have, and have not, said makes their position clear.

[Edweird]

50. "Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured"

But speaking at a press conference shortly after the meeting with her caucus broke up, Pelosi didn't rule out changing the way the CPI is measured. She did say that any savings that were generated for the federal government as a result would have to be reinvested in the Social Security program. Pelosi also said it's possible that the move could be phased in over time, accompanied by protection for the poorest Americans.

"It would have to be something that would be put on the table ... that would address Social Security," Pelosi said. Not all lawmakers view it as a benefit cut, she said.

http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/stock-market-news-story.aspx?storyid=201107081505dowjonesdjonline000464&title=pelosi-reassures-house-democrats-inflation-measure-switch-not-likely

[pnwmom]

51. Pelosi has opened the door, unfortunately, to lowering the rate of increases.

The Republicans want to ELIMINATE Social Security and Medicare. There's a huge gulf between those positions.

[Edweird]

53. The big difference is that the republicans failed in their attacks and the "dems" will likely suceed

[pnwmom]

58. They failed ten years ago. They haven't failed this go around --

the fight is still ongoing. If Bachmann or another Rethug is elected, and they take the Senate with a large majority, they could succeed.

[Edweird]

60. Obama is certainly doing his part to make that happen.

[cstanleytech]

57. A lowering of the rate might not be a bad thing if

its based on income and or assests that a person or persons have, after all I dont think George Soros needs full SS benefits does he?

[Edweird]

61. Jesus fuck more RW bullshit.

[cstanleytech]

66. Sorry, but i just do not believe that Soros or someone like him needs to draw

full benefits.

[JDPriestly]

138. Please see my answer to you above.

When wealthy people receive Social Security, it is virtually just a transfer of most of their benefits to the general funds receipts.

The much bigger problem is the low tax rate for wealthy people. If wealthy people receive Social Security and keep it, is because of the low tax rates and many loopholes they have.

No. You buy an insurance policy. You don't want the insurance company to means-test your benefits. That would be highly unfair.

There was a certain sort of tacit contract made between us when we paid into Social Security in our youth and our government that we would pay in and report our income honestly and the US government would pay our benefits just as they paid our grandparents and our parents. The problem is that Bush fought two wars without raising the money through taxes or other spending cuts to pay for them.

The Bush wars along with Wall Street's gambling pretty much ruined our economy and sent our deficit sky-high. We need to go back to a rational tax policy that taxes the money where it is -- under the control of corporations and wealthy individuals. That will solve any inequity that might exist because a now wealthy person who paid into Social Security receives benefits. The benefits are so small anyway that a very wealthy person like Soros might not bother to apply for them considering that he would have to declare them on his taxes.

[cstanleytech]

147. Soros is just an example

If the social security benefits were based on income and assests the program could then be geared so as to put more money towards those who need the most aid while those who are well off or decent enough get a bit less aid because they can afford to pay more out of their own pocket.
Furthermore some cuts to the drug portion of medicare might make sense if the governments given the ability to import cheaper versions of the drugs people need and to negotiate with the drug manufactures on prices so as to hopefully do away the gouging on drug prices thats going on.

As for your idea on taxes.............I agree but the republicans wont agree to an outright raise, there are ways to counter that of course which some of the dems are doing like clinton by agreeing that there should be a cut but also abolishing most if not all tax loopholes so that companies like GE actually do pay their taxes rather than paying none at all.

[JDPriestly]

137. Soros probably does not receive Social Security benefits.

And if he did, he would probably have to repay his benefits in taxes.

People on Social Security still pay income taxes. And if the kind of income that Soros receives is not taxable, then that needs to be changed. Also, if the kind of income Soros received in his life was subject to Social Security taxes, as I explained he probably pays far more than his benefits in other taxes.

A lot of people seem to think that receiving Social Security means you don't pay taxes. I think there is a small amount of the benefit that is not subject to regular taxes, but the taxes you would pay on that amount in any event is nominal.

[SusanaMontana41]

135. "A huge gulf"? No. More like a slippery slope. n/t

[muffin1]

132. Like...agreeing to cuts in Social Security and Medicare?

[treestar]

28. Exactly.

And it depends what it is that is cut. People here are treating it as if finding some way to cut fat would end the program.

[RC]

109. The problem is that the people trying to cut S/S do think it is all fat.

[bjobotts]

123. Nonsense! It's Wall street and the bankers who want to privatize it.Theywant those trillions

[treestar]

165. Not necessarily

All government programs have bureaucracies.

One of the "cuts" to Medicare was to stop reimbursing providers for their uncollected debt. Interesting. That took from the providers.

And the same people screaming that cuts were horrible were the same people screaming that the providers are greedy corporatists. They were going to lose in that "cut" and the blindly enraged just didn't get it. They want it to be black and white.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cstanleytech]

62. SSI? I thought that was the one for disabled people

and not the regular social security that people get when they reach retirement age?

[treestar]

166. It is. And while that should not be cut

Something on a decision like "disability" is much more a grey area.

[Divernan]

76. Must you remain so blissfully ignorant of the percent of annual budget going to the military?

Currently it's at 56% - close some of the multitude of overseas bases and get the hell out of our even 2 of our current 4 wars.

[Enthusiast]

80. Yeah. We can continue to pay for this far flung empire

and military that only serves the corporations and the wealthy but can't even consider one cent of taxes on capital gains or raising the cap on FICA contributions. Zero inheritance taxes for billionaires? Sorry, I can see clear through your argument, clear to the bottom, to the stink.

[girl gone mad]

88. We just handed $13 Trillion to Wall Street.

The choice you outline could not be any more artificial.

[Kurmudgeon]

16. It's a drag realizing that the lesser of 2 evils is still evil.

[DesertFlower]

19. it will be the last straw for me. nt

[blkmusclmachine]

21. Gotta stand for something,

or fall for everything.

[deacon]

148. Thats true. If he refuses to stand for anything at least we will have an identity. n/t

[Smarmie Doofus]

23. Forget "reelection trouble". Why is he not in "renomination trouble"?

>>>>Indeed, when a political candidate promises to try to pass a public option to compete with private insurers, attempt to crack down on Wall Street abuse, do what he can to stop unfair trade deals, oppose extending his predecessors tax cuts and avoid initiating initiate costly new wars sans congressional approval, and then once in office works to kill a public option, refuses to prosecute Wall Street crimes, presses the rigged trade deals he opposed, supports the extension of his predecessor's tax cuts and starts a new war in Libya with no congressional authorization -- whose fault is it that he ends up in reelection trouble?

I'd say the answer is obvious -- I'd say that if such a politician wasn't in reelection trouble, it would be a sign that our democracy is in a deeper crisis than it already is.>>>>>


I think we're past the "a primary challenge will only weaken the party's chances" stage... at least now I HOPE we are.

Nothing weakens a party's chances more than nominating a candidate ( in a rote, perfunctory manner, yet) who espouses and practices an incompatible philosophy.

[Liberalynn]

43. Seriously we need a Dem alternative

I just don't think we are realistically going to get one.

JMHO, I think he is going to win re-election but only because the other side is too frighteningly wacko, and nobody else seems willing to stand up as a primary candidate on our side.

[bvar22]

73. He will win re-election because...

...the very wealthy Powers that Be are very pleased with his performance.
The Lower 98% ?
Well, they don't matter anymore.


Did you know that since the "Democrats" have been in charge,
there are now MORE BBV Machines, owned by "private" corporations
that use proprietary "secret" code to count our votes?

Just like Health Care "Reform" (LOL),
the deals have already been made, probably since before 2008.
All we are watching is the Kabuki Theater playing out.
They need to maintain the illusion of a difference.



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[NorthCarolina]

56. +1

That's what I'm talk'in about.

[L0oniX]

59. +1,000,000,000,000,000

[woo me with science]

83. +1000000 nt

[BlueDemKev]

131. Because....

...the last time a Democratic president had a primary challenger (1980, which pitted a weakened Carter against a strong challenger in Kennedy), our party fought so much with each other which greatly undermined Carter's general election campaign. Remember Reagan's commercial in which he ran clips of Ted Kennedy saying "No more high unemployment, no more high inflation, and no more Jimmy Carter!"?

Our objective in 2012 is to stop the tea-baggers from taking over the federal government. I'll vote for a @#*& dog to prevent that from happening!

[JDPriestly]

139. Excellent post, Smarmie Doofus. You are no Doofus.

[boomerbust]

24. Did you ever get the feeling

That he does not want to be reelected? This would be the easiest way .

[Jakes Progress]

27. They won't call it cuts. Just like they called their NCLB RTT.

For me it was the sell out of our American education system. Craven and blatant.

Now when they begin slicing away at SS and Medicare, they will again call it something else.

It's still a lie, and it's still wrong.

Soon, real Democrats are going to have to admit that we have been infiltrated by something bad just like the neocons took over the republican party.

[Solly Mack]

29. K&R

[somone]

31. Perception is reality

The mere fact that Obama is willing to sacrifice Social Security is the last straw for many people

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. Obama passes out straws and we are told to suck it up.

[bvar22]

33. It doesn't much matter anymore.

The Democratic Party will be unelectable for a generation when The Mandate kicks in in 2014.
The "Centrist" Democrats passed a Republican Health Insurance SCAM without forcing The Republicans to take ANY responsibility.

When 40 - 70 MILLION Americans are forced to BUY worthless Junk Insurance that they can't use due to High Deductibles/Co-Pays,
they WILL blame the Democrats,
and rightly so.

ALL The Republicans have to do is sit back and say, "Yep. We opposed it."

--So it really doesn't matter much anymore.
Maybe THAT will wake up The Working Class & The Poor to the truth that
NOBODY represents them in Washington.

Things will get a lot worse before they start getting better.
Good Luck to ALL you peasants and slaves in the Lower 98%
in the coming New American Century.
SEE: PNAC (Project for a New American Century), and the DLC members
"They" WON.


Hahahahahahahahahahaha, Suckers!!!

[seeker4ever]

68. So true. Well said.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

36. YES. it is, personally speaking.

If he supports cuts in Medicare or SS -- it's the last goddamned straw for me. He loses my vote and any support whatsoever.

Anyone else who wants to tell him so should do it NOW.

I'm telling you that if ever there was a time to make ourselves heard, it is NOW. This is no time to sit in silence or just grousing on DU. Make yourselves heard loud and clear by those making the decisions.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Comments: 202-456-1111
Switchboard: 202-456-1414
FAX: [phone]

Congress/Senate switchboard: [phone] - call and ask for the office of your rep. and let them know your thoughts - in no uncertain terms.

[cstanleytech]

52. The problem is though no one here knows though is

what he is going to propose to cut and or redo for the program.
He could say propose that they need to cut ss benefits based upon a persons total assests not counting a single private residence up to x amount of value, after all a person with say a million dollar or more valued home probably doesnt need much if any ss benefits as say someone who owns a home valued under 80k.
Also he could propose that maybe they cut payments for nursing homes with a high mortality rate and or who get repeated citations for heath and or safety violations.
My point is until we know whats on the table exactly threating to vote for someone else is imo premature.

[JDPriestly]

140. The Republicans would not agree to that.

Besides it would not help the deficit because when a wealthy person receives Social Security, he or she has to pay tax on the income. Only a small portion of Social Security is not subject to taxes.

The means-test would have to affect many, many middle-class people before it would make enough difference to be worthwhile.

Used to be, self-employed people did not have to pay Social Security taxes. You had to choose to buy into the system.

And even now, in our state, teachers are not part of the Social Security retirement insurance fund. They have an alternative pension system. They only get Social Security for work they did outside the Social Security system.

[Zax2me]

38. It's time for us to suffer a little.

and that includes social security.
Our capitalist system includes a cushion soial security that most in the world do not enjoy.
We need to be knocked down a notch top to bottom.
Live a little like 90% of the rest of the world lives.

[Edweird]

47. Holy crap.

[Mimosa]

55. Go away.

What a BS post. People in Europe, China and South America are doing fine. People in this country are slipping down to third world insecurity and you think it's OK? You aren't a democrat, that's for sure.

[bvar22]

74. Sounds like someone ...

...with No Skin in the Game.

DU had some very outspoken Canadians (who enjoy Cradle to Grave Universal Health Care) insisting that WE should support Obama's Health Insurance Profit Protection Plan during the "debates".
THAT is the Pinnacle of Hypocrisy.



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their speeches.

[liberation]

78. More like the Pinnacle of Outsourcing

[TheKentuckian]

129. Outsourced internet trolling would indicate the metamorphosis is nearly complete.

Every Child Left in a Race to the BOTTOM is only transition step to when the internet will deliver "the best teachers in the world" to every child and your doctor will be some kat on a monitor and then it will be pretty much done.

[neoralme]

162. There's plenty of Republican boards for you to celebrate your

suffering in. We start living like 90% of the rest of the world, we start starving daily, sleeping under freeways and killing our children out of desperation. I hope the right person sees your telltale post.

[WillyT]

41. K & R !!!

:kick:

[sarcasmo]

44. If Democratic candidates cut Social Security what do they stand for?

Corporations would be my guess.

[cstanleytech]

54. Depends on what they cut imo

Do you think the majority of Americans would complain say if the cut was say to the drug manufactures as in letting the government import generic versions to cut the knees off of the drug makers who overcharge or say a cut to the pay and benefits for people with a home valued of over 1 million dollars?

[Buns_of_Fire]

71. The devil, as usual, will be in the details.

The deadline is still 24 days from today. I've waited this long -- I can hold off another 24 days before I start panicking (yes, I know I should make my position known NOW -- and I have -- but I also know how much people like me are listened to in Washington).

I guess I'm getting too old to panic before it becomes absolutely necessary. Takes too much energy.

[sudopod]

63. They tried to put Social Security on the table, but it broke. nt

[Octafish]

67. Last straw?

That was a few hundred unindicted republicons ago.

[seeker4ever]

69. +1

[cstanleytech]

70. True. nt

[mistertrickster]

72. Wow, the disillusionment is hitting people hard. I smell PRIMARY!

Who else smells it?

[JoePhilly]

77. The delusional.

There will be no primary.

[mistertrickster]

164. You have no problem with Obama causing people to wonder if SocSec will be cut?

Mine Gott in Himmel, what could cause you to question the Big O-Man if not that?

[JoePhilly]

172. I thought he already cut social security.

Based on the screaming from parts of DU.

But as I said prior ... there will be no primary. Its not going to happen.

[mistertrickster]

173. So . . . he can do no wrong. Glad to hear we're in good hands. nt

[JoePhilly]

174. You apparently need to claim that I said things ...

that I clearly did not say.

I DID NOT say, he can do no wrong.

I DID say, there will be no primary.

And I will repeat it ... there will be no primary.

... there will be no primary,

....there will be no primary.

[jefferson_dem]

100. Haha...

Not quite.

[bjobotts]

124. It's your upper lip you smell.PRIMARY means defeat and more right wingers on SC.

[mistertrickster]

163. Wow, good come-back . . . I remember 6th grade too, man. nt

[ut oh]

81. This is not real politik.... blah blah...

"Inherent in that ideology is the assumption that Americans -- and particularly Democratic voters -- are either too stupid to see the heist in process, or if they do see the heist, are too entranced by their president's power/fame/celebrity/charisma to want to do anything about it, even if what's being pilfered is Democrats' Social Security crown jewel."

The author forgot a catagory... Dem voters who believe there is nothing they can do at this point to make a difference....

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MissDeeds]

84. Not the last straw -

That one was used up long ago. I am so sick of being disappointed by this president.

K&R

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. Can you say "betrayal"?

I'm already so furious at the situation in Washington and in Minnesota that I'm REALLY looking forward to leaving the country for three weeks.

[slay]

87. It will be for many

he way passed my "last straw" breaking point a long, long time ago. i could not be more disappointed in the man.

[JDPriestly]

89. Timothy Geithner, Pete Peterson and New York Fed appoint

Just Google it. Pete Peterson headed the committee that selected Timothy Geithner to head the New York Fed. That means that Pete Peterson is a Geithner supporter (and we can assume vice versa).

Now Google Pete Peterson and Social Security.

Geithner was one of Obama's early appointments.

Surely Obama's research team knew when Geithner was appointed that he probably supported cuts to Social Security.

We cannot know the heart and mind of Obama or Geithner or any other politician, but we kind of have to guess in order to arrive at some assessment of character, and my guess is that Obama was anti-Social Security and Medicare the whole time.

From that, and from the fact that Obama has not really explained his supposed about-face on these and so many other issues, much less apologized, that Obama simply liked to get elected.

If Obama's compromise actually includes cuts to Social Security rather than increases in FICA taxes for people earning over $106,000 per year, I will not vote for him again.

I will never give up on the Democratic values and will stay truet to my party as long as at all possible. That is because I am a 100% Democrat, a real Democrat. I will vote and work to get Democrats into Congress.

But I will neither work for nor vote for any Democrat who agrees to cut Social Security or Medicare -- absolutely not.

[juajen]

91. Yes. NT

[jefferson_dem]

98. Sirota ran out of "last straws" months ago.

He has zero credibility on things Obama.

[otohara]

119. I Stopped Listening

everything outrageous Sirota.

[jefferson_dem]

134. His shark-jumping routine hit new "highs" when he accused Obama of illegally...

"assassinating" bin Laden. :crazy:

Shame too, as he could be a strong voice against the political scumbaggery on the right but instead he conjures up nutty hit pieces and encourages circular firing squads among the good guys.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

101. The last straw blew by months ago.

[SidDithers]

111. And if he doesn't cut SS? Then what?...

on to the next outrage, I guess.

Sid

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

114. -1

Unrec!

[emulatorloo]

136. If he doesn't cut SS, many will still claim he did.

[treestar]

168. Yep. The outraged never apologize for being wrong.

And they have been so many times.

[JoePhilly]

175. The manufactured outrage machine runs 24/7. nt

[saras]

116. What a defense of Social Security might look like...

Someone needs to be hammering the message home to the public on a daily basis that...

"Social Security and Medicare are separate economic systems from the debt problem. They are completely off the table for changes until we fix the economy, and I want the help of you, Americans, in keeping them off the table and functional. I want you all to be contacting your Senators and Representatives to be sure that they understand this, and vote accordingly."

"When extremists are seeking to dismantle our government and steal its resources, it's not a good time to open up ANY discussion of changing Social Security in any way except by paying back what the nation borrowed from it, and increasing payments to more accurately reflect the cost of living."


If not Obama, then who's supposed to be saying it?

[nc4bo]

143. If he touches any of the 3rd rail trio: SS, Medicare or Medicaid. We need to keep all 3 together

int he same sentence, not allow them to only mention 1 of the 3.

They ALL matter and yes, it'd be the very last straw.

[cstanleytech]

154. Nah, nuking Medicare and Medicaid is ok

but only if there was an actual decent national healthcare plan that provides the same coverage or better than Medicare and Medicaid for everyone based on their income and assets but there are probably better odds of Glenn Beck finally managing to pull his head out of his ass than there is a chance of that passing into law.

[deacon]

146. I've been a staunch supporter. Yes. This would be the final straw. However, no deal is done yet.

I refuse to jump to conclusions and be a media toy. The final deal will determine my vote and we all don't know what that is yet.

[lib2DaBone]

151. Obama cuts SS, loses in a landslide... but where does this leave America?

..up a creek with no paddle.

Obama should do the right thing and not run.. open the field to a wide array of Dems... let the people at least try to claw their way out this mess he has ignored.

[EndElectoral]

152. Yep..if he cuts Soc. Sec. that's it. He's on a thread for me now.

[Romulox]

167. No. People always think an injury to *their* interests is "the last straw"

:shrug:

[whistler162]

178. Quite sure Republican shills like Sirota will find another and

another and another last straw to excite the "intelligencia" of the Demcratic party!