Vote for Barack Obama OR ELSE... "Else" being repub rule, fascism, detention camps, or worse.

[cherokeeprogressive]

That's how I interpret what I'm reading here lately. While I'm not quoting anyone it seems like every single day I see a DU'er, be they a longtime member or newbie call DU either a festering hive of Obama haters, freepers, and/or trolls. That's kind of understandable seeing as how Barack Obama is the first Democratic president since DU's inception. but

I also remember hearing when The Wall fell that Eastern Europeans wouldn't know how to conduct themselves because most of them had never KNOWN what freedom was. It seems to be working out okay for most of them... I hear the same thing today about North Koreans.

In 2012, come November, jobs WILL matter. The price of fuel WILL matter. Equality WILL matter. The National Debt WILL matter. Having our precious young in harm's way in illegal wars WILL matter. Sadly, I don't see any of those things being addressed in any meaningful way between now and then and I don't see any urgency to change course.

I've read right here that sexual equality will come AFTER he gets reelected, because then he can work his will without worrying about being reelected (?). The implication is that his "evolution" won't be able to continue until he's a lame duck. That, I don't get at all. Funny... I thought evolution marched along at its own pace irregardless of conscious input. As the proud father of a Gay Daughter who is taking her first tentative steps toward gender reassignment, THAT'S NOT FUCKING GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME. Do you hear that, Mr. President? I want sexual equality NOW, and I'm not disposed to wait until you're a lame duck.

Such high expectations, such good feelings, such hope, and an outlook for a better future for the first time in a decade. That's what I had on Inauguration Day. That day now seems like a thousand years ago.

I've had friends and family lose their jobs SINCE he became president. Many of them wound up getting caught up in that cascade of bad things that follow job loss such as losing cars, houses, and happy marriages. I've seen lots of sorrow, irreparable harm, and bad feelings that while not President Obama's direct responsibility will be accounted to him come election time. This seems to be a graveyard that the Obama administration and its most ardent supporters have no trouble whistling past. Strange.

I'm not a racist simply because I think the Obama Administration is at this point, failing. I'm not an Obama hater because I think the Obama Administration is at this point, failing. I'm not a troll because I think the Obama Administration is at this point, failing. As time goes by though, and President Obama's numbers start to fall due to unchanging circumstances, I wholly expect to be called one of those things if I express disappointment with his administration's policies. There is a pattern I see starting here that I'll call "preemptive accusation". People like me, who are very disappointed in how things have transpired in the last two and a half years are already being held out as haters, bashers, and trolls. At this point in time, strangely, the reelection of Barack Obama seems to take precedence over what's best for the country. "Let's make some history and reelect the first black president!" is what seems to take priority over putting the country back on the right path. Sorry folks, I'm not feeling it.

Disappointed? Impatient? Cynical? Angry? Today at DU, those things = racist fascist rethug troll.

I wish I could say otherwise, but I'll be donating to DU rather than PBO's reelection campaign. I'm sincerely hoping there will be a primary candidate. I never thought I'd say that in the open, but there it is.

So fling your arrows. Shoot your flamethrowers. Call me names... I can take it. 50 years in the So. Cal. sun have given me leathery if not wrinkled skin which is about 3" thick. I'll remain a lifelong Democrat either way.

[defendandprotect]

1. Lots of DU'ers are expressing the same feelings -- a big change of heart re Obama ... !!

I've had friends and family lose their jobs SINCE he became president. Many of them wound up getting caught up in that cascade of bad things that follow job loss such as losing cars, houses, and happy marriages. I've seen lots of sorrow, irreparable harm, and bad feelings that while not President Obama's direct responsibility will be accounted to him come election time. This seems to be a graveyard that the Obama administration and its most ardent supporters have no trouble whistling past. Strange.

Takes courage to say all of that -- !!

:)

[CaliforniaPeggy]

2. My dear cherokeeprogressive...

Your eloquence is overwhelming. I agree with you...

Recommended.

:patriot:

[cherokeeprogressive]

17. My Dearest Peg...

Would that I could ever be as nice as you are. I had big smiles today when I read someone's post calling you the nicest person on DU because THAT can't be said enough.

You know I'd give anything short of my Wife, Daughter, Dogs, and Cats rather than to be in a situation where I felt compelled to express myself like this. I might even be convinced to give up my favorite fishing pole, or even my pool cue. Tall orders.

I look around me though, and see things getting worse for people, my loved ones included, and sooner or later have to speak up.

I thank my lucky stars that there is a place like DU where I can do that.

[johnaries]

3. Let me ask a question - who could have done better?

The policies of Bush and his Republican Congress f*cked us more than anyone could have predicted. It took a long time to get us here, and it will take us a long time to get better.

Considering everything Obama inherited, who do you think could have handled it better, and how?

[theFrankFactor]

5. Who and How Does Not Change the Reality of Obama's Weakness and Failures

[johnaries]

7. Obama is not superhuman. Can you name someone who

would have done better?

[hootinholler]

40. I'd like to see Dr. Howard with a larger role.

I'd like to see Sen. Bernie form a national coalition.

I'd like to see some bulldogs in the EPA, Ag, Justice, SEC and DOE for starters.

-Hoot

[Rex]

51. Hillary Clinton.

She would have been our first superwoman!

[Fearless]

6. He could've done better by not surrounding himself by Bu$h cronies n/t

[johnaries]

9. He didn't. It's true he had a diverse staff, but he certainly didn't

"surround" himself with Bush "cronies".

[Fearless]

11. Combine them with corporate whores like Arne Duncan and Ben Bernanke...

And the picture gets darker. Then there's the deficit commission, Robert Gates, and countless others.

[_ed_]

42. Really?

Robert Gates, SECDEF, is a Republican.

Ben Bernanke, FED, Republican.

Tim Geithner, (although not a Bushie), another Republican.

[rhett o rick]

60. No some are just corporatists. nm

[Abukhatar]

10. like a fireman with a cup

i see obama as a fireman fightin a fire with a cup - he's making slow progress in a race against the house burning down, the repubs screaming at him for buying too many cups, and obama looking to saying he'll prioritize the house and might not throw so much water on the porch if the repubs gives him a bigger bucket - bottom line is the house must be saved.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Obviously... No one. He inherited shit, and we wanted him to turn that into lemonade.

Well I have news... He hasn't even turned the shit he inherited into compost.

He's the best of a bad lot I guess, and it's my job to vote for the lesser of all evils. So be it. I have no choice but to vote for him. Don't fucking put me in the place though of feeling like wishing there were an alternative is being either a racist, basher, or troll.

[RegieRocker]

20. In no way or fashion is it excusable to make the shit pile

bigger.

:hurts:

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. In the Grand Scheme of Things, I don't have much influence on the shit pile one way or another.

But bigger it grows...

Having a bigger stake in Obama the person than Obama the president isn't going to make anything better.

[Duke Newcombe]

23. The president had the opportunity. He blew it.

In the first 6 months of this term, he had a resounding mandate. He could have made tectonic changes to our economic system, and rammed them through. He could have used his bully pulpit to trigger massive pressure to push our agenda forward. Instead, he's spent the better art of two years negotiating against himself and capitulating to Republicans.

[woo me with science]

28. You have got to be fucking kidding me.

ANY good Democratic politician could have done better.

He has had OVER TWO YEARS to change the conversation in Washington. He came in with tremendous enthusiasm from the public and a mandate, and he squandered it. If he had wanted to, he could have started from DAY ONE to talk about progressive economic changes that would actually promote jobs and get this economy moving. He could have TAUGHT the country about Keynesian and demand-side economics. He is a fucking gifted speaker and teacher. If he had wanted to, he could have ignited a national conversation about our jobs crisis and economic problems, and he could have helped to build a new consensus that would PUSH the country in a better direction.

Instead, he squandered it all - first, by diverting from the economic crisis to focus on corporate health insurance reform, and second, by not even TRYING to change the economic conversation in Washington in any fundamental way. Instead of teaching and pushing for demand-side economic solutions that might actually work, he hired a bunch of corporatists for his own administration and adopted the REPUBLICAN FRAMING of our economic problems. As a result, what are we STILL talking about today? Spending and tax cuts and deficit reduction - to the point of threatening SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE, FOR GOD'S SAKE. And this when every sane person sees that we have a DEMAND PROBLEM. It did NOT have to be this way. It is this way, because he did not choose to do those things. He did not LEAD.

[Morning Dew]

31. This could be an epic OP... good stuff.

[Jim Lane]

39. Your criticisms of Obama: I partly agree, partly disagree

This was a huge blown opportunity. You should recognize, however, that Obama took some steps in the direction you advocate.

As to your first point, he didn't "divert() from the economic crisis to focus on corporate health insurance reform". His first legislative push was the stimulus bill (ARRA). It created or saved millions of jobs. At the time, progressive economists criticized it as being too small in comparison with the magnitude of the problem. They proved to be right, but I think all those critics would agree that the stimulus did a lot of good.

Of course, even with regard to the stimulus, his timidity showed. He should have proposed what the economists said was needed -- something in the $2 to $3 trillion range. If the Republicans shot it down, it would be on their heads. Instead, he started out by compromising. In fact, he committed the fundamental tactical error of negotiating against himself. His first proposal was too small and weighted too heavily toward tax cuts. Even so, he got virtually no Republican support for it.

We have the benefit of hindsight -- of looking back at two and a half years of Republican obstructionism. I can cut Obama some slack for not knowing that in January 2009. There was a case to be made at that point for trying to tone down the partisan warfare in Washington. His experience with the stimulus, however, should have educated him. We can reasonably fault him for continuing to try to be a conciliator long after it had become obvious that what was needed was, if I may borrow a phrase, a fierce advocate.

[progressoid]

34. Howard Dean

[_ed_]

41. Are you fucking serious?

Here's a partial list:

- Fight for the public option for healthcare
- Actually close down GITMO
- He could have stopped DADT with an executive order on Day 1
- Restore the rule of law
- End "Black sites"
- He could have not claimed the unilateral power to assassinate American citizens at his whim
- Fight to end Bush tax cuts
- Support unions (remember the "shoe" promise?)
- Regulate banks
- Fire Geithner (a Republican)
- Fire Gates (another Republican)
- Fire Bernanke (yet another Republican)

I could go on for about two hours... are you seriously saying that Obama could not have done any better so far? You're seriously deluded.

[tekisui]

44. Obama could have done better.

[indepat]

61. End wars ASAP. Not renew junior's tax cuts. Bigger stimulus package re infrastructure. Pursue

prosecution of war criminals et al. Reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, stronger regulation of Wall Street, and investigation and prosecution of the criminals and criminal organizations perpetuating massive financial fraud. Quick ending of all of junior's ruinous policies, initiatives, and actions rather than having ratified/continued most major ones. Immediately ridding government of all of junior's appointees in government, especially DOJ, and the military. Appointing only progressives rather than conservatives. Doing all in power of government to address the reason of burgeoning inequality in pay. Institute fairness in the tax code. Re-institute the rule of law and equal justice under the law. Re-establish the Constitution by revoking the so-called Patriot Act. Encourage whistle blowing instead of prosecuting whistle-blowers. Address the Don Siegleman miscarriage of justice, including the gross prosecutorial misconduct. These would comprise the bulk of my starter list. Of course, I'm a gd progressive instead of a far-RW conservative. :patriot:

[theFrankFactor]

4. Solidarity!

I'm with you.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. All about me? Hardly.

This is about all of us who voted for Obama expecting things to get better. Things are not getting better. The original argument was "hey it's only been x days". That turned into "hey, it's only been x months". Now it's "hey, it's only been x YEARS". Sooner or later, I expect our leaders to take ownership of the way things are. That time has actually passed. What's next... "hey, he only had two terms"?

Disagreeing with Obama's policies isn't naval-gazing. It's worrying that for your family, your friends and their families, and the public at large, things are not going to get better any time soon.

Things are not going to get better before the 2012 General Election. Bookmark these words. There are no jobs. Those jobs that have been lost will not come back. There is no vision that has been expressed to me that makes me think otherwise.

WE voted for radical change. WE got milquetoast actions. WE got Wall Street advisors. What do WE get in the end? More of the same.

Me? Hardly.

[alcibiades_mystery]

33. Blah blah blah

How many times did you read that back to yourself?

:rofl:

[SwampG8r]

43. do a lot of this i bet

[pintobean]

47. Thanks for the laugh

:thumbsup:

[alcibiades_mystery]

49. Not really

But I do tend to tune out repetitive hysteria.

:-)

[Name removed]

38. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[theFrankFactor]

12. Why is it the Republicans Get What They Want and We Get Excuses?

Majority, minority, it doesn't matter Republicans win and we lose. Rather than blame what you can't change (republicans) maybe it would make more sense to examine our own faults. Barack Obama did not respond to the Bush devastation with the strength and determination the situation called for.

He established himself as a capitulator out of the gate and he surrounded himself with Wall Street scum. He has been given the best time to make the case for Progressive reform and has wasted it. I question his sincerity at this point.

[sce56]

13. K+R

[emilyg]

14. You speak for me.

[CelticThunder]

18. k&r I'm bitterly disappointed in this president. He's in Bush territory for me now.

[rdking647]

19. and who else has a chance to beat a rethug in 2012

name me 1 person who could realistically win in 2012 besides obama
staying home is the same as voting for a rethug.
it was only a few hundred people staying home that gave us 8 years of shrub.

but enjoy standing on your moral high ground as the world crumbles around you

[cherokeeprogressive]

21. Yeah. I never said I'd stay home on election day. I'll be voting for the Democratic nominee.

If the party's nominee is Barack Obama, he'll get my vote. Do you not get that? What the fuck is wrong with people? Is it not possible to express dissatisfaction without someone interpreting it as my intent not to vote for Barack Obama should he be the party's nominee?

[Sirveri]

63. Why does it matter if they're just flip sides of the same coin?

I didn't vote for Obama to keep and expand all of Bush's policies.

So why the hell should I care if a repuke gets in, same asshole different letter after their name.

I'm not about to let fear of republicans rule my life. I'd rather watch the damned place burn to the fucking ground. I've got a nice spot to watch and a great bottle of wine.

[woo me with science]

24. Well said. nt

[Number23]

25. You sound awfully thin-skinned for someone with such leathery flesh

Unrec

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Ouch. That's going to leave a mark.

On second thought... not.

I stand by every word.

[Number23]

27. lol I had little doubt that you'd do otherwise

[Morning Dew]

29. Rec. Great OP. I wish your young'un the very best and with a dad like you....

that road is going to be just a little bit easier.

[Raine]

30. TOTALLY on point

very well said! :thumbsup:

[Lucian]

32. Our choice is, then, a guy who says he's a Dem but acts R,

or an R that acts like Hitler.

These "either-or" threads on DU lately are really, really annoying.

I'd rather vote for "none of the above" or have someone else run. I'm sick of choosing between two similar choices.

[deacon]

35. In truth, the final numbers are what will determine my future vote. Up until now I've been a staunch

supporter, but I really hate what I'm seeing and hearing about this economic "solution." You can't create jobs without serious investment. And, keep your grubby mitts off SS and medicare. What he does now will determine if I don't get involved in a draft Feingold effort.

[mmonk]

36. You are just on the receiving end of people that invested themselves

emotionally in the election and do not care to hear criticism, no matter how much grounded in any inconvenient facts, heading into the next election cycle. That is human nature. Those of us that are frustrated must channel that frustration in making our communities better and tolerable places, especially during the unprecented assault on the public square by powerful interests. The political counter must be our own and not politicians who are tied down to corporate donations. If we are to survive with limited damage, I feel this must be our strategy.

[Harry Callahan]

37. The president is a CEO, not a King.

[AngryOldDem]

45. Proud to K&R.

I am desperately hoping Obama has a primary challenger...

...but will it make any difference? I admit I'm getting pretty jaded and cynical about the whole process. Have been since the health care debacle. I feel like I've been had by actually having the gullibility to believe in the message Obama was selling back in 2008 -- that here was finally a candidate who would actually change things for the better. Joke's on me. Yes, I'm angry, and yes, I feel ultimately powerless.

It's pretty clear who's running this show now. I FULLY expect Obama to cave on both Social Security and Medicare. Why should I believe differently, with his proven track record with the GOP?

As for 2012, right now I don't know what I'm going to do. Not that it makes a whit of difference anyway. I *do* know that not ONE THIN DIME of mine will go to support Obama. I may need that ONE THIN DIME 15 years from now, the way things are apparently headed.

[Mnpaul]

46. What they fail to understand

fear tactics like this have absolutely no effect on liberals. Fear tactics are only useful on conservatives.

[lunatica]

48. I'm disappointed too, but a third party will guarantee a Republican win

I've learned that life doesn't go the way it's planned. Not ever. One has to make choices all the time that are never satisfying. Life offers more dilemmas than it does clear cut choices.

Lots of people hate their jobs, yet they feel lucky to have them in today's failing economy.

The way I see it, if we lifelong Democrats don't come through for each other by not voting or voting a third candidate we guarantee that life will get worse. And who needs that? Are we willing to give up even more just because we're disappointed? And how disappointed will we be when it gets worse?

[Palmer Eldritch]

50. There will be no Primary. Will you vote for Obama or the Repuke?

Or do you advocate for a 3rd Party?

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. I will vote for the Democratic Party's nominee.

If it's Barack Obama, I'll be voting for him. I wouldn't NOT vote, nor would I vote for a republican. If Barack Obama is the best the Democratic Party can do, so be it.

[Palmer Eldritch]

54. At least you're rational. That is a rare thing these days.

[divvy]

52. Obama is taking us there anyway .... vote no and let the repubs take the blame

[Dappleganger]

55. k&r

[swilton]

56. Things that matter in 2012 =

Environmental Remediation, Global Warming Mitigation - none of that will change if Obama wins re-election.

I'd prefer to vote for a REAL democrat than anyone with a DP after their name.

[StarburstClock]

57. "Disappointed? Impatient? Cynical? Angry? Today at DU, those things = racist fascist rethug troll."

Only to those with completely closed minds.

[Mimosa]

58. I've lived too long to scare easily.

TSA, NSA, DEA etc can hardly get any worse.

[Fire1]

59. History has already been made. In many ways I even hope

he doesn't get re-elected. Then I can compare the bashing, ridicule, racism and name calling of this president with a white guy you will call "president." I'm pretty convinced already but that'll just seal it.

[Kermitt Gribble]

62. Yeah, all the dissatisfaction is about race.

Gimme a break...

DUers said the same things about Bush when he proposed similar policies, so you can use that as a comparison.