The people who tried to overthrow FDR in 1933 had kids.

[Octafish]

And they are the ones* screwing America now.

What's different today, is we don't have Smedley Butler or FDR to stop them.



Baron de Rothschild and Prescott Bush, share a moment and some information, back in the day.

* Of course, it's not just a few rich families's offspring who screw the majority today. They've hired help and built up the giant noise machine to continue their work overthrowing the progress FDR and the New Deal brought America for 80 years.

Why would the nation and world's richest people do that? Progress costs money. And they don't want to pay for it, even when they've gained more wealth than all of history put together. Instead, whey continue to work -- legally, through government and lobbyists -- to amass even more, transferring the wealth of the many to themselves.

And instead of an armed mob led by a war hero, their weapon is "Supply Side Economics." To most Americans, that means Trickle-Down.

[midnight]

1. And those kids worked for Nixon.... And the Nixon crowd

is and have been running things into the ground for the last twelve years...

[Octafish]

6. Agree -- and I'd add they've been at it longer, most of the last 30 years-plus...

Senators Richard Nixon and Prescott Bush share a moment before some kind of stage routine. I believe it's Sen. Robert Byrd, looking on.



Know your BFEE: War and Oil are just two longtime Main Lines of Business

[hifiguy]

72. There is alot of concentrated evil

in that picture. :scared:

[defendandprotect]

113. You know Nixon's deal with Prescott/Repugs was $50,000 a year payoff OVER his

Congressional salary -- !!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

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[Rex]

3. The 1% own more then any king or queen ever did...ceaser would

be envious to learn the American Owners have no resistance to their purging of the taxpayer purse. That the ringleaders own the govt and the mass communications industry. Nothing else explains our pointless wars and ineffective two party system.

[Octafish]

8. Even the Royal Bean Counter David Stockman dropped partisanship to note something's rotten in DC.

Former Reagan Budget Director David Stockman Annihilates Wall Street, Federal Reserve Debt Monetization & The Bailout Super Culture

By David Stockman
The Daily Bail

Make no mistake. The banking system has become an agent of destruction for the gross domestic product and of impoverishment for the middle class. To be sure, it was lured into these unsavory missions by a truly insane monetary policy under which, most recently, the Federal Reserve purchased $1.5 trillion of longer-dated Treasury bonds and housing agency securities in less than a year. It was an unprecedented exercise in market-rigging with printing-press money, and it gave a sharp boost to the price of bonds and other securities held by banks, permitting them to book huge revenues from trading and bookkeeping gains.

Meanwhile, by fixing short-term interest rates at near zero, the Fed planted its heavy boot squarely in the face of depositors, as it shrank the banks’ cost of production — their interest expense on depositor funds — to the vanishing point.

The resulting ultrasteep yield curve for banks is heralded, by a certain breed of Wall Street tout, as a financial miracle cure. Soon, it is claimed, a prodigious upwelling of profitability will repair bank balance sheets and bury toxic waste from the last bubble’s collapse. But will it?

In supplying the banks with free deposit money (effectively, zero-interest loans), the savers of America are taking a $250 billion annual haircut in lost interest income. And the banks, after reaping this ill-deserved windfall, are pleased to pronounce themselves solvent, ignoring the bad loans still on their books. This kind of Robin Hood redistribution in reverse is not sustainable. It requires permanently flooding world markets with cheap dollars — a recipe for the next bubble and financial crisis.

CONTINUED...

http://dailybail.com/home/former-reagan-budget-director-david-stockman-annihilates-wal.html

[Rex]

10. We've gone from a 'free market' to a 'rigged market'.

Something the Owners dreamed about, but until recently could never achieve. And as always, repukes leading the way for a new style of white color crime.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-05-13/rigged-market-theory-scores-a-perfect-quarter-jonathan-weil.html

[onethatcares]

20. that's an amazing link

It's like walking into a casino every day for 90 days and coming out a winner each time. Unless the cards are stacked in your favor or you have a program that beats the slots, it's not gonna happen.

thanx

[Rex]

22. Don't you just WISH you could have that kind of 'luck'?

And I would bet a casino would ban you after those 90 days...not open up the vault and say, 'have at it!".

[Beam Me Up]

4. supply side economics = blood sucker / flow to the top economics

that or equivalent is how the meme needs to be changed

[Octafish]

27. Reverse Robin Hood

"Robin Hood in reverse: Taking from the needy to give to the greedy." -- Jesse Jackson



Conspiratorial Wink (detail) by Michael Samuels

Know your BFEE: Goldmine Sacked or The Best Way to Rob a Bank Is to Own One

[Wind Dancer]

5. Excellent post, Octafish!

The facts can't be denied!

[SDuderstadt]

9. If you look closely...

the OP has not provided a single fact that establishes that Prescott Bush was involved in any way, shape or form with the Business Plot.

[bobthedrummer]

11. Thanks for that SDuderstadt-I really needed to laugh at information war again!

:silly:

[SDuderstadt]

14. If Octafish has proof of his claim...

let him present it.

[Octafish]

31. I've got evidence to support my post, which is more than you provide, sduderstadt.

For example, Scott Horton of Harper's article: "The Plot Against America."

EXCERPT...

The Congressional committee kept the names of many of the participants under wraps and no criminal action was ever brought against them. But a few names have leaked out. And one is Prescott Bush, the grandfather of the incumbent president. Prescott Bush was of course deep into the business of the Hamburg-America Lines, and had tight relations throughout this period with the new Government that had come to power in Germany a year earlier under Chancellor Aldoph Hitler. It appears that Bush was to have formed a key liaison for the group with the new German government.

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

33. Dude...

that is not evidence. That is an author making an unsubstantiated allegation, with no corroboration whatsoever. Where is Horton's proof? He doesn't say.

You have previously claimed the evidence is in the National Archives. Please point us to it.

[Octafish]

59. Here's more on Prescott Sheldon Bush Sr, sduderstadt...

Documents: Bush's Grandfather Directed Bank Tied to Man Who Funded Hitler

AP / FoxNews.com
Friday, October 17, 2003

WASHINGTON — President Bush's grandfather was a director of a bank seized by the federal government because of its ties to a German industrialist who helped bankroll Adolf Hitler's rise to power, government documents show.

Prescott Bush (search) was one of seven directors of Union Banking Corp. (search), a New York investment bank owned by a bank controlled by the Thyssen family, according to recently declassified National Archives documents reviewed by The Associated Press.

Fritz Thyssen (search) was an early financial supporter of Hitler, whose Nazi party Thyssen believed was preferable to communism. The documents do not show any evidence Bush directly aided that effort. His position with Union Banking never was a political issue for Bush, who was elected to the Senate from Connecticut in 1952.

Reports of Bush's involvement with the seized bank have been circulating on the Internet for years and have been reported by some mainstream media. The newly declassified documents provide additional details about the Union Banking-Thyssen connection.

CONTINUED w/links...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

[Name removed]

62. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hifiguy]

75. Kevin Phillips discussed this at some length

in his truly frightening book about the BFEE, "American Dynasty." And Phillips at one time worked for Nixon, so he is no lefty radical. Phillips hates the entire BFEE with a barely concealed intensity.

[Octafish]

80. Kevin Phillips called them a ''multigenerational family of fibbers.''

The Barreling Bushes

Four generations of the dynasty have chased profits through cozy ties with Mideast leaders, spinning webs of conflicts of interest

by Kevin Phillips
Published on Sunday, January 11, 2004 by the Los Angeles Times

EXCERPT...

During these years, Bush's four sons - George W., Jeb, Neil and Marvin - were following in the family footsteps, lining up business deals with Saudi, Kuwaiti and Bahraini moneymen and cozying up to BCCI. The Middle East was becoming a convenient family money spigot.

Eldest son George W. Bush made his first Middle East connection in the late 1970s with James Bath, a Texas businessmen who served as the North American representative for two rich Saudis (and Osama bin Laden relatives) - billionaire Salem bin Laden and banker and BCCI insider Khalid bin Mahfouz. Bath put $50,000 into Bush's 1979 Arbusto oil partnership, probably using Bin Laden-Bin Mahfouz funds.

In the late 1980s, after several failed oil ventures, the future 43rd president let the ailing oil business in which he was a major stockholder and chairman be bought out by another foreign-influenced operation, Harken Energy. The Wall Street Journal commented in 1991, "The mosaic of BCCI connections surrounding Harken Energy may prove nothing more than how ubiquitous the rogue bank's ties were. But the number of BCCI-connected people who had dealings with Harken - all since George W. Bush came on board - likewise raises the question of whether they mask an effort to cozy up to a presidential son."

Other hints of cronyism came in 1990 when inexperienced Harken got a major contract to drill in the Persian Gulf for the government of Bahrain. Time magazine reporters Jonathan Beaty and S.C. Gwynne, in their book "The Outlaw Bank," concluded "that Mahfouz, or other BCCI players, must have had a hand in steering the oil-drilling contract to the president's son." The web entangling the Bush presidencies was already being spun.

CONTINUED...

http://faculty.plts.edu/gpence/html/kevin_phillips.htm

Thank goodness for Kevin Phillips, author of "American Dynasty: Aristocracy, Fortune and the Politics of Deceit in the House of Bush." And thanks for remembering, hifiguy -- for a decade, now!

[SDuderstadt]

81. I happen to have that book...

as well as several others by Phillips. Could you point me to any pages in which Phillips shows that Prescott was behind the "Business Plot" or was "Hitler's banker"?

Or, have you abandoned the premise of your OP?

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hifiguy]

84. When one does some research into the BFEE

the real truth comes out - both the Bush and Walker sides of the family made their original money as profiteers during the Civil War. That entire famiy should be extirpated root and branch from this country out to at least the fourth degree of consanguinity.

War profiteering
Bankers to Nazis
Best friends with the nastier elements in the Saudi royal family

What more does anyone need to know about these shameles criminal family of malevolent assholes? They have been as rotten as human beings can be for more than 150 years.

They are America's Borgias.

[Rex]

88. It is sick that they funded the nazis.

Bottom feeders.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

159. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

90. Deleted message

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[formercia]

78. Others were Big Wheels in Corporate America.

and members of the Knights of Malta.

BTW, they were also Democrats, which just goes to show you that there is really only one Party in America, the Corporate Party.

[Name removed]

100. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

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[Octafish]

12. Here's more on what Loftus and Aarons have written about Bush and Walker and pro-Nazi activities ...

Courtesy of the great DUer leveymg:

"Walker also set up a deal to take over the North American operations of the Hamburg-Amerika Line, a cover for I.G. Farben's Nazi espionage unit in the United States. The shipping line smuggled in German agents, propaganda, and money for bribing American politicians to see things Hitler's way. The holding company was Walker's American Shipping & Commerce, which shared the offices at 39 Broadway with Union Banking. In an elaborate corporate paper trail, Harriman's stock in American Shipping & Commerce was controlled by yet another holding company, the Harriman Fifteen Corporation, run out of Walker's office. The directors of this company were Averill Harriman, Bert Walker, and Prescott Bush. . . .

". . . In a November 1935 article in Common Sense, retired marine general Smedley D. Butler blamed Brown Brothers, Harriman for having the U.S. marines act like 'racketeers' and 'gangsters' in order to exploit financially the peasants of Nicaragua. . . .

". . . A 1934 congressional investigation alleged that Walker's 'Hamburg-Amerika Line subsidized a wide range of pro-Nazi propaganda efforts both in Germany and the United States.' Walker did not know it, but one of his American employees, Dan Harkins, had blown the whistle on the spy apparatus to Congress. Harkins, one of our best sources, became Roosevelt's first double agent . . . kept up the pretense of being an ardent Nazi sympathizer, while reporting to Naval Intelligence on the shipping company's deals with Nazi intelligence.

"Instead of divesting the Nazi money," continue the authors, "Bush hired a lawyer to hide the assets. The lawyer he hired had considerable expertise in such underhanded schemes. It was Allen Dulles. According to Dulles's client list at Sullivan & Cromwell, his first relationship with Brown Brothers, Harriman was on June 18, 1936. In January 1937 Dulles listed his work for the firm as 'Disposal of Stan Investing stock.'

The fact is that Prescott Bush and Bert Walker weren't acting alone to aid Nazi Germany, there was a network of Wall Street lawyers and financiers that labored diligently to continue the flow of money to German companies and entities, even after the U.S. entered the Second World War. Undoubtedly, Prescott Bush was one of the key figures with close ties to the German elites who had backed Hitler, and had the Banker's Plot succeeded, he would have played a central role as a liaison between the two camps of wealthy fascists.

Mark

Tip o' 8 tentacles to leveymg. Same to you, Wind Dancer! Years, we've together been on this...

SOURCE: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1197157&mesg_id=1199013

[SDuderstadt]

16. Notice that...

leveymg provides ZERO corroboration for any of his accusations. None.

Look up the logical fallacy known as false certainty.

[Wind Dancer]

29. Those two families have a long history...

...yet always remain under the radar.

The FDR coup is covered in the documentary, "The Corporation."

Keep up the great work, Octafish. :hi:

[Rex]

30. I will have to look that up.

Thanks.

[defendandprotect]

115. You probably know this but Allan Dulles was very active in raising money for Hitler with ....

Bush and Walker -- through Dulles' legal firm -- Sullivan & Cromwell -- raised money

from elites all over the world --

Dulles would trade the American dollars in for GOLD to be shipped to Hitler


The fact is that Prescott Bush and Bert Walker weren't acting alone to aid Nazi Germany, there was a network of Wall Street lawyers and financiers that labored diligently to continue the flow of money to German companies and entities, even after the U.S. entered the Second World War. Undoubtedly, Prescott Bush was one of the key figures with close ties to the German elites who had backed Hitler, and had the Banker's Plot succeeded, he would have played a central role as a liaison between the two camps of wealthy fascists.

[defendandprotect]

114. +1000% -- Capitalism is an evil --

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime --

Great post!!

[malaise]

7. and they have lived for this moment

There are scumbags on this planet who would reintroduce feudalism if they could

[Octafish]

19. Lord of the Manor. Knights in Armor. Ladies-in-Waiting. What the Hell?

Privatized wealth. Socialized workload.

The New Feudalism

by Bob Johnson
Daily Kos
Sat Apr 16, 2011 at 11:18 PM PDT.

EXCERPT...

The governors of these states, and, indeed, every GOP mouthpiece, be they senators, representatives or television or radio personalities, use the same words to frame their efforts to line the pockets of their wealthy benefactors: the rich and the corporate megaliths have been recast as "job creators" who not only deserve the lopsided breaks being proposed in everything from tax rates to environmental policy, but must be given these breaks to ensure that they pull our country from its economic malaise. Because only these "job creators" have that power.

Yes, the "job creators" will rain down their beneficence if only we give them everything they ask for. The rest of us, as "average Joes," can only hope to reap the rewards that will certainly trickle down from the "job creators."

This is nothing new, of course. This has been the Republican mantra since Ronald Reagan enshrined selfishness as an American virtue.

CONTINUED...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/04/17/967707/-The-New-Feudalism

Thanks, Malaise, for knowing what's what and who's who.

[malaise]

26. Nice link

:hi:

[Mimosa]

50. I'm jealous because....

I predicted the return of feudalism during the 1980s.

Oddly, computer technology became a two-edged sword in that it helped the capitalists to efficiently outsource jobs and spread propaganda. But it also helps the rest of us disseminate information.

[blindpig]

13. The bourgeois class must be eliminated

We'll happily welcome them to the working class if they stop putting on airs.

[Octafish]

23. That's a royal idea I can live with.

Rather than shortening all the aristocrats by a head as the French did in 1793, making them do what they'd never do would be a most just sentence. For the first time in their lives, they'd have to earn their living by work.

Outstanding suggestion, yours, Blind Pig.

[bobthedrummer]

15. These BFEE cloning family of RW Tea Bag treenuts continues to practice eugenics

for real, Octafish. They are positioning themselves, through applications of their degenerate American form of corporate fascism using a recognizable squad of fuhrerprinzip followers, to become sole heirs to the known universe.

[Octafish]

36. You put your finger on it, Brother Bob.

They're planning to survive whatever is ahead. I think their plan is we don't.

Remember that prof in Texas who got cheered when he brought up the idea of using ebola for major depopulation?

[dotymed]

124. Right again Octafish.

Most people cannot even imagine the lengths these "people" are prepared to go through to ensure that they retain their power. Even if it means, starting a "brave new world." to most of them we are just a calculation on their spreadsheet.

"They" have huge underground cities. I changed browsers and do not immediately have the links, google "underground cities" and you will find manufacturers of these cities and even the cost of "saving a slot" in these massive cities. Some people will get in free. because of the need of their expertise. Depending on your "value to the community" you can get discounts too.

These cities are just that. It is incredible. they have homes, schools, gymnasiums...,very plush, fiberglass-like interconnecting units. It is very well planned out.

Many people who are less wealthy, are hoarding food, guns, and have secret shelters, much like the home "fall-out shelters" that were popular in the 1950's,

They know it is just a matter of time before the masses revolt. When the masses are starving, homeless, with no hope, there has to be a revolt. These wealthy people plan to survive, in comfort.

That is disgusting, since "they" could prevent it all. However there is that overpopulation thing.

Argentina, where Bush, Cheney, Rice and who knows how many others have purchased vast amounts of land, will, IMO, definitely hose a very plush underground community.

They built the FEMA camps. for the "first wave", they hope this will "buy them time" to get their deep, underground cities running smoothly. I know it sounds like a fantasy and I am sure that I don't know the half of it.

Their survival is planned, just like our current economy is planned. Sadly, many of the almost elite, will not be granted access to their plush, "Wait it out" communities.

[UTUSN]

17. K&R #26 n/t

[Octafish]

37. Who Rules America, UTUSN?

Wealth, Income, and Power

EXCERPT...

In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010).

How IS that class war coming along, America?



How 'bout them Have-Mores?

[yurbud]

18. The book goes into detail about how they would create the appearance of support for the coup.

They were going to use plants scattered around the stadium at a veterans group convention to stand up and call for Butler to take over. Sort of like the Tea Party today.

[Octafish]

41. Jules Archer

he writes about a history that seems all but forgotten: "The Plot to Seize the White House."

Here are selected excerpts.

And scroll down to December 30, 2008: FTR #602 for a radio interview with the great man .

[SDuderstadt]

42. Deleted...see post # 69 below n/t

[yurbud]

49. He was brutally honest about causes of war: ''Let Congress say to all foreign investors:

`Come on home or let your money stay out of the country--we will not defend it.''' 227

That would just about end all of our wars and most of our conflict with other countries.

[yurbud]

116. and in World War War I, he said the Allies told Wilson they couldn't pay back JP Morgan if they lost

the war, so America had to come in on their side, so that's what we did.

Gen. Smedley Butler said shortly before the US joined the Allies in fighting World War I, a delegation came over to give President Wilson this message:

"There is no use kidding ourselves any longer. The cause of the allies is lost. We now owe you (American bankers, American munitions makers, American manufacturers, American speculators, American exporters) five or six billion dollars.

If we lose (and without the help of the United States we must lose) we, England, France and Italy, cannot pay back this money...and Germany won't.

America entered that war and lost the lives of 100,000 troops.

[SDuderstadt]

52. Can you show us on what page...

Archer discusses Prescott Bush? It's possible that I missed it, but I don't think so.

Don't you find it odd that one of the definitive books on the Business Plot would fail to even mention someone you claim was so central to the plot?

Here's the index page upon which Bush should be mentioned, if his name appeared in the book:

http://www.chris-floyd.com/plot/The_Plot_to_Sieze_the_White_House_by_Jules_Archer/

As you can see, no mention of Bush whatsoever. You just tanked your own claim, dude.

[Octafish]

135. Page 118 discusses Brown Brothers, where Prescott Bush later worked, sduderstadt.

It's page 130 in the online menu at the right of that page:

Smedley Butler mentioned them by name, describing them as racketeers and war profiteers.

Pretty accurate description, don't you think?

[SDuderstadt]

136. Dude...

Your claim is that Prescott Bush was behind the Business Plot. My question is, if that is the case, why doesn't Archer mention him by name? You do realize that you're tanking your claim, right? Here Butler is given the opportunity to finger Brown Brothers and/or Prescott Bush for the Business Plot, yet he does neither. Now, at this point, most "researchers" would start to critically examine their initial hypothesis, asking whether they should abandon. However, I have noticed that with you, the more wrong you are, the more it convinces you that you are, instead, right.

It's hysterical to watch your endless spinning.

[Name removed]

146. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[EFerrari]

21. Robert Greenwald circulating this today on Twitter:

When "the Forces of Selfishness and of Lust for Power Met their Match"

Via the blog at the NYRB and FDR, a reminder for Obama:

For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up. We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering. They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob. Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred. I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.Au

http://economistsview.typepad.com/economistsview/2011/07/when-the-forces-of-selfishness-and-of-lust-for-power-met-their-match.html

Audio here: http://www.dailykos.com/tv/w/000499/

[Octafish]

44. ''The Old Enemies of Peace.''

Gee. Who could President Roosevelt have been talking about?

"Money trumps peace." -- George Walker Bush, pretzeldent, Feb. 14, 2007

Thank you for the outstanding article and interview, Lisita. Am listening to it as I hit "Send."

"I can assure you, we will keep our sleaves rolled up." -- President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Democrat

[Zen Democrat]

24. We do know for certain that Prescott Bush's bank was charged with trading with the enemy in 1942.

The assets were seized and many were shocked that he and others at Brown Brothers Harriman weren't charged with treason. There's still an article up on it at The Guardian from 2004.

The father and grandfather of two subsequent presidents was aiding and abetting the Nazi rise to power and yet they call President Obama un-American. Projection is all I see.

[Rex]

25. Most voting repukes have no idea of the history of the BFEE

and Foxnews/CNN are well paid organizations meaning to keep it that way!

[izquierdista]

28. Should have been jailed in WWII

Had his passport taken and tried on charges of trading with the enemy. Had the FDR Justice Department done that, then history might have been different:
* Connecticut would not have considered a felon, or even an acquitted conspirator for Senator.
* The son of a felon or suspected traitor would never have been allowed to attend Yale, so no connections to get him started in the Texas oil business. However, to his own credit, he may have become a minor league Texas politician, say one of John Tower's staff.
* The alcoholic son of one of Sen. Tower's staff may have been able to score some hooch for the senator's parties, but his luck would show up mainly in being to able to stay out of jail.

Moral of the story: The Justice Department shouldn't cut fascist traitors any slack at any time.

[Zen Democrat]

39. If Prescott had not gotten away with it, GHWB wouldn't have been CIA and sent to Texas.

The entire history of the following 100 years would have changed if Prescott had been charged, or if the American media had ever allowed this information to be widely disseminated to the American public. The rest of the world knows a lot of things about America that we aren't told in the NY Times.

[mod mom]

34. The Plot to Seize the White House by Jules Archer

is an excellent book for those who want to understand the history we were never taught in school.

:hi:

[SDuderstadt]

35. "the history we were never taught in school"

History is fact-based, not faith-based. What evidence does Archer present of his claims?

[FlaGranny]

128. Stop demanding answers

and google. I didn't know anything about this when I first joined this site way back when it started. When I read threads like this I decided to find out. I researrched and found plenty of credible evidence for what is being said here. You can find many references from credible sources that go back to the time in which this all started.

[SDuderstadt]

137. Then it should be easy to provide specific evidence...

shouldn't it?

People can always find plenty of "evidence" to support conclusions they have already formed. The problem is that they've got the process backwards.

[FlaGranny]

157. I wouldn't dream

of asking anyone to do my research for me. When I hear something and want to know about it I look it up myself and then I've looked at all sides of the issue and can make up my own mind. It's the only way.

[SDuderstadt]

158. "I wouldn't dream of asking someone to do my research"

When someone makes a claim - like that in the OP - and someone challenges the maker of the claim for proof of that claim, that isn't "asking someone to do my research for me". Duh.

[FlaGranny]

160. OK, then.

If you want to rebut someone and you don't like his references it seems you'd look it up yourself if you were really interested.

If the poster is like me, I no longer have the references because it was years ago that we were discussing it here, a couple of computers later. I can't give you references either, unless I look them up, but I certainly can remember.

[SDuderstadt]

161. FLG...

Here's a basic rule of debate. The MAKER of the claim BEARS the burden of proof. I don't need anything to "rebut" someone, I merely need show that they have provided no proof for their claim. This "prove me wrong" tactic (also called "argument from ignorance") is a logical fallacy known as "trying to shift the burden of proof" and, is wrong on its face.

The OP claims that Prescott Bush was behind the Business Plot, but provides no evidence of that whatsoever.

[FlaGranny]

162. I find it

a little difficult to believe that you have been around here since 2002 and have never read any of the old threads that give multitudes of links to the story. We old-timers just assume that everyone who's been around here that long would be quite familiar with the whole story. So I took 30 seconds of time and came up with this:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/sep/25/usa.secondworldwar
Enjoy.

[SDuderstadt]

163. FLG...

I have see this story before. This is not new.

The issue in this particular thread is the OP's contention that Prescott Bush was behind the Business Plot. There is absolutely NOTHING in what you have provided that has anything to do with this issue. Neither the OP nor anyone else has provided anything remotely connecting him to the Business Plot. I don't know how to make this any clearer.
If you have evidence that Prescott Bush was involved in any way, shape or form with the Business Plot, please provide it. As I have said before, there is plenty the Bush clan has done for which they can be and are condemned. We simply don't have to make up shit they didn't do.

[Octafish]

156. BBC ran an excellent documentary on the subject...

The White House Coup

EXCERPT...

The coup was aimed at toppling President Franklin D Roosevelt with the help of half-a-million war veterans. The plotters, who were alleged to involve some of the most famous families in America, (owners of Heinz, Birds Eye, Goodtea, Maxwell Hse & George Bush’s Grandfather, Prescott) believed that their country should adopt the policies of Hitler and Mussolini to beat the great depression.

PS: Thanks for spelling things out, FlaGranny -- for us and for a good many years.

[Octafish]

43. Thank you, mod mom! Jules Archer writes about a history that seems all but forgotten...

Thankfully, there are a few who have not forgotten, like Chris Floyd: "A key event in the History of Corporate Crime."

Archer's book is hosted there: "The Plot to Seize the White House."

Here are selected excerpts.

And scroll down to December 30, 2008: FTR #602 for a radio interview with the great man .

Hmm. This history is not generally talked about. Why would that be?

Mr. Murdoch? Mr. Moon? Mr. Sulzberger?

[SDuderstadt]

55. Did you notice that Archer's book...

does not mention Prescott Bush one single time, dude?

[Name removed]

56. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Enthusiast]

127. Are you denying the Bushes

are the scum of the earth?

[Rex]

153. No, he is just blindly defending the founder of the BFEE.

I've been told there is a difference.

[Octafish]

141. You know what I have noticed is how you follow me around when I post about the BFEE, sduderstadt.

Couple of weekends ago:
World's wealthiest people now richer than before the credit crunch

Weekend before that:
Bilderberg 2011: The tipping point

Weekend before that:
Clarence Thomas, BFEE

In a way, it's almost gratifying that you have nothing better to do. Dude.

[SDuderstadt]

142. Dude...

You left out all the ones where I "didn't follow you around", dude.

Simple question: why do you experience near-paroxysms when asked for proof of your accusations?

[Rex]

152. Creepy ain't it?

[bluestate10]

38. I read the article that was linked.

I am now so full of unjustified paranoia that I have slipped on my aluminum foil hat and in a few minutes will sojourn to a bath to hide out, waiting for black helicopters and stormtroopers to come. But this being the era of Obama, a President that actually thinks before he jumps, the helicopters will have the latest silencer technology, better than tech that resulted in bin laden getting his ass capped. So I'm screwed, my aluminum foil hat protective properties to be overrun.
Slap, slap. Back to the real world. I have real life pursuits to attend to.

[Wind Dancer]

45. Keep joking and making fun ....

.. if it makes you feel safer! :eyes:

Some of us prefer the truth!

[SDuderstadt]

46. I always love the...

"you'll be sorry" gambit.

[Bonobo]

92. Do you understand the difference between a trial and a grand jury?

If you understand what a grand jury is and its purpose, you should also understand that demanding absolute evidence at this point is premature.

Since no proper investigation has been conducted into the details of Prescott Bush's activities, no one has any damning evidence (duh!).

The real question is, whether there is enough evidence to suggest a trial should take place.

One cannot reasonably expect an internet forum poster to provide rock solid evidence of such a thing, and doing so (as you do) is as common a debate tactic as it is intellectually disingenuous.

[SDuderstadt]

94. Dude...

if you want to "try" a guy who's been dead for nearly 40 years, be my guest.

What kind of "investigation" do to you think we need?

[Bonobo]

95. Stadtenduder, you changed the subject again.

Please point to where I said we needed a trial or investigation.

I am merely commenting that your demand for rock-solid evidence at this point is analogous to a judge demanding evidence before a grand jury was even held.

[bluestate10]

103. Huh?

Bonobo (1000+ posts) Sat Jul-09-11 09:42 PM
Response to Reply #46
92. Do you understand the difference between a trial and a grand jury?

If you understand what a grand jury is and its purpose, you should also understand that demanding absolute evidence at this point is premature.

Since no proper investigation has been conducted into the details of Prescott Bush's activities, no one has any damning evidence (duh!).

The real question is, whether there is enough evidence to suggest a trial should take place.

One cannot reasonably expect an internet forum poster to provide rock solid evidence of such a thing, and doing so (as you do) is as common a debate tactic as it is intellectually disingenuous.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

wwrrrrllwwrrrrll

[Bonobo]

108. My last sentence was unclear.

I should have said;

One cannot reasonably expect an internet forum poster to provide rock solid evidence of such a thing, and demanding something as impossible as that (as you do) is as common a debate tactic as it is intellectually disingenuous.

[Rex]

151. +1

[Name removed]

54. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Octafish]

47. Really am sorry if that's what you got from it. You must not know about the history of crime.

Yeah, see. I'm series.



The Bush Family: A Continuing Criminal Enterprise?

Gary W. Potter, PhD.
Professor, Criminal Justice
Eastern Kentucky University

The S&Ls, the Mob and the Bushs

During the 1980's hundred of Savings and Loan Banks failed. Those bank failures cost U.S. taxpayers over $500 billion to cover federally insured losses, and much more to investigate the bank failures (Pizzo, Fricker, and Muolo, 1989; Brewton, 1992; Johnston, 1990). More than 75% of the Savings and Loan insolvencies where directly linked to serious and often criminal misconduct by senior financial insiders (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305). In fact, less than 10 percent of bank failures are related to economic conditions, the rest are caused by mismanagement or criminal conduct (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 305).

A good example of the Savings and Loan failures can be found in the activities of Mario Renda, a Savings and Loan insider who often worked in close collaboration with organized crime (Pizzo, Fricker and Muolo, 1989: 123-126;302). Renda served as a middle man in arranging about $5 billion a year in deposits into 130 Savings and Loans, all of which failed (Kwitny, 1992: 27). Many of these deposits were made contingent on an agreement that the Savings and Loan involved would lend money to borrowers recommended by Renda, many of whom were organized crime figures or people entirely unknown to the banking institution involved (Kwitny, 1992: 27).

Equally good examples of financial misconduct in the Savings and Loan scandal is found in the activities of the Bush family. In some cases Bush family members helped skim Savings and Loan funds which were delivered to outsiders as a part of deals involving lucrative payoffs to bank directors. In other cases, members of the Bush family intervened to influence decisions involving highly speculative and unsound investments involving loans that would not be repaid if the venture was not profitable. And finally, the Bush family’s political connection served to protect those guilty of misconduct in the Savings and Loan scandal (Kwitny, 1992: 24).

Neil Bush: Taking Down Silverado

In 1990 federal bank regulators filed a $200 million lawsuit against the officers of Silverado Banking, including Neil Bush, brother of the current President. The lawsuit accused them of gross negligence which resulted in a loss of $1 billion by Silverado and the bank’s ultimate collapse (Los Angeles Times, 1990). According to the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation: “Our conclusion is that Silverado was the victim of sophisticated schemes and abuses by insiders and of gross negligence by its directors and outside professionals” (Johnston, 1990). Neil Bush was reprimanded by the Office of Thrift Supervision for pervasive conflicts of interest while serving as a paid director of the bank Of particular concern was his role in a serious of loans totaling $132 million from the bank to two businessmen, Bill Walters and Kenneth Good (Los Angeles Times, 1990: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). Walters and Good, after securing the loans from Silverado, lent Neil Bush $100,000 and later forgave the loan entirely. In addition, Walters and Good owned a company which paid $550,000 in salaries to Neil Bush (Los Angeles Times, 1990: 1; Isikoff, 1992: A1). In the end Walters and Good lost a total of $330 million loaned to them by Silverado. They also received instructions from a member of Silrverado’s board of directors on the establishment of family trusts to prevent the government from seizing the money they owed the bank (Kwitny, 1992: 32). The shutdown of Silverado was postponed from October to December 1988 so that it would happen after President Bush, Sr.’s election campaign had ended. Neil Bush had to pay only $50,000 to settle the federal lawsuit against him and he was able to avoid any legal costs because a senior banking industry lobbyist formed a legal defense fund to pay the legal costs (Fritz, 1992).

CONTINUED...

http://critcrim.org/critpapers/potter.htm

Good luck in your studies, there.

[bluestate10]

105. Oh heaven. Why did I doubt something that was written in CritCrim?

Oh, I remember. Far left wing shit smells just as bad as far right wing shit. I waste no time stepping in either pile.

[Octafish]

110. Odd response, considering how in Reply 107 you have ''no use for closed minded inbred thinking.''

If you were open minded, you'd note Professor Potter specializes in criminal justice and represents a very important source.

[Mimosa]

40. Thank you, Octafish. Knowledge is power. n/t

[Octafish]

48. You are most welcome, Mimosa! Hey, didya see what EFerrari shared?

For nearly four years you have had an Administration which instead of twirling its thumbs has rolled up its sleeves. We will keep our sleeves rolled up. We had to struggle with the old enemies of peace—business and financial monopoly, speculation, reckless banking, class antagonism, sectionalism, war profiteering. They had begun to consider the Government of the United States as a mere appendage to their own affairs. We know now that Government by organized money is just as dangerous as Government by organized mob. Never before in all our history have these forces been so united against one candidate as they stand today. They are unanimous in their hate for me—and I welcome their hatred. I should like to have it said of my first Administration that in it the forces of selfishness and of lust for power met their match. I should like to have it said of my second Administration that in it these forces met their master.

-- Franklin Delano Roosevelt speech at Madison Square Garden (October 31, 1936)

[Mimosa]

51. Yes! Good info.

:-)

[SoCalDem]

53. Poison fruit falls close to the tree n/t

[Octafish]

57. Here's a visual summary of how we got to where we are:

And the bottom line of it all:

Know your BFEE: Money Trumps Peace. Always.

[zappaman]

61. Interesting

I did not know Prescott Bush was a nazi supporter.
I eagerly await the evidence for this assertion!

[Octafish]

64. Look around and do you see an American economy centered on war and Wall Street?

If not, tell me what you do see, zappaman.

'America's Outrageous War Economy!'

Pentagon can't find $2.3 trillion, wasting trillions on 'national defense'

Paul B. Farrell
MarketWatch / CBS
Aug. 18, 2008, 7:27 p.m. EDT

ARROYO GRANDE, Calif. (MarketWatch) -- Yes, America's economy is a war economy. Not a "manufacturing" economy. Not an "agricultural" economy. Nor a "service" economy. Not even a "consumer" economy.

Seriously, I looked into your eyes, America, saw deep into your soul. So let's get honest and officially call it "America's Outrageous War Economy." Admit it: we secretly love our war economy. And that's the answer to Jim Grant's thought-provoking question last month in the Wall Street Journal -- "Why No Outrage?"

There really is only one answer: Deep inside we love war. We want war. Need it. Relish it. Thrive on war. War is in our genes, deep in our DNA. War excites our economic brain. War drives our entrepreneurial spirit. War thrills the American soul. Oh just admit it, we have a love affair with war. We love "America's Outrageous War Economy."

Americans passively zone out playing video war games. We nod at 90-second news clips of Afghan war casualties and collateral damage in Georgia. We laugh at Jon Stewart's dark comedic news and Ben Stiller's new war spoof "Tropic Thunder" ... all the while silently, by default, we're cheering on our leaders as they aggressively expand "America's Outrageous War Economy," a relentless machine that needs a steady diet of war after war, feeding on itself, consuming our values, always on the edge of self-destruction.

•Why else are Americans so eager and willing to surrender 54% of their tax dollars to a war machine, which consumes 47% of the world's total military budgets?

•Why are there more civilian mercenaries working for no-bid private war contractors than the total number of enlisted military in Iraq (180,000 to 160,000), at an added cost to taxpayers in excess of $200 billion and climbing daily?

•Why do we shake our collective heads "yes" when our commander-in-chief proudly tells us he is a "war president;" and his party's presidential candidate chants "bomb, bomb, bomb Iran," as if "war" is a celebrity hit song?

•Why do our spineless Democrats let an incompetent, blundering executive branch hide hundreds of billions of war costs in sneaky "supplemental appropriations" that are more crooked than Enron's off-balance-sheet deals?

•Why have Washington's 537 elected leaders turned the governance of the American economy over to 42,000 greedy self-interest lobbyists?

•And why earlier this year did our "support-our-troops" "war president" resist a new GI Bill because, as he said, his military might quit and go to college rather than re-enlist in his war; now we continue paying the Pentagon's warriors huge $100,000-plus bonuses to re-up so they can keep expanding "America's Outrageous War Economy?" Why? Because we secretly love war!

CONTINUED...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/why-we-love-americas-outrageous

You might want to read the entire article, for full-effect.

[zappaman]

79. read it

but missed the part about Prescott Bush being a nazi.
maybe you could quote that part in one of those goshdurned fancy blue links you love so much?

[Stinky The Clown]

58. K&R The Bush Crime Family has a long and storied past

I am also made to chuckle at some of the twisting into knots that happens in attempted defense of these shitstains on the shorts of America's history.

[SDuderstadt]

60. "attempted defense"

Yeah, we should just abandon standards of evidence because they are the Bushes, right?

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bonobo]

93. Do you understand the difference between a trial and a grand jury? nt

[Name removed]

97. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue_In_AK]

66. It certainly seems that way.

To each his own, I guess. :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

67. Wrong...

I despise the Bush family. But the OP simply has no facts to support his inflammatory claims.

[Blue_In_AK]

69. I'm not going to argue with you,

but if you despise the Bush family so much, why do you argue in their favor so often? I've read discussions about the Prescott Bush-Nazi connection in many sources. Of course, I wasn't there, I wasn't privy to Prescott Bush's inner workings, but are we to disbelieve everything we read then?

And before you call me "Dude," be advised that I am a Dudette.

[SDuderstadt]

74. Do facts make a difference to you?

What difference do our personal feelings about someone matter when assessing questions of fact?

The OP has been given ample opportunity to produce facts to back up his claims and has failed miserably. There is not a single mention of Prescott Bush in the proceedings of the McCormack-Dickstein Committee, nor is there any evidence in the National Archives. More importantly, the OP is singing the praises of Jules Archer's book, while avoiding the fact that Archer's book does not mention Prescott Bush.

Have you ever sat on a jury? Would you be okay with finding someone guilty, not on the basis of evidence, but simply based upon your dislike for them?

[Fuddnik]

76. Where do you get all of your information?

You keep telling everyone they're wrong and their multiple sources are wrong, but all we have are your assertions that they're wrong. Just because you weren't taught about it.

I've read about the Bush-Nazi connection for a couple of decades. Mostly from what I consider reliable sources.

[SDuderstadt]

77. "their multiple sources are wrong"

If their multiple sources are right, let them produce the factual basis for them. Have you ever read a single author who provided a factual basis for concluding that Prescott Bush had anything at all to do with the Business Plot? If you have, could you share that factual basis?

There is every reason to rightfully despise the Bush family. That doesn't mean they are guilty of everything they have ever been accused of.

[sabrina 1]

117. They are guilty of making their fortune from helping to financially

support the rise of the Nazis. Their money is blood-stained. Unless of course YOU can provide information to show that this is not the case. Where DID the Bush fortune come from?

[SDuderstadt]

138. Sabrina...

I'll answer your question when you answer past questions I have put to you. See how that works?

[sabrina 1]

145. No need for YOU to answer questions regarding the Bush family

fortune. Those questions were answered when after decades of the Bush family trying to hide those answers, documents revealed their contributions to the rise of the Nazis and the rewards received for their assistance. Both sides of the family too.

I guess the Bushes don't agree with our assessment of their innocence. Which is why they tried so hard to cover up how they became so wealthy. THEY knew the answers, and now we do also. And they continue to profit from the death and destruction of innocent people.

[SDuderstadt]

147. Sabrina...

maybe this escaped you. The issue here isn't how the Bush family created their fortune; it's Octafish's accusation that Prescott Bush was behind the Business Plot and his inability to prove that.

[Rex]

150. +1

[Fuddnik]

118. If somebody gave you pictures, you'd deny it.

[SDuderstadt]

139. Why don't you give me those "pictures" and...

let's see.

Your lack of evidence is not my problem.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mnemosyne]

101. He also believes US hi story books are based on facts.

:rofl:

[Bonobo]

89. Do you understand the difference between a trial and a grand jury?

If you understand what a grand jury is and its purpose, you should also understand that demanding absolute evidence at this point is premature.

Since no proper investigation has been conducted into the details of Prescott Bush's activities, no one has any damning evidence (duh!).

The real question is, whether there is enough evidence to suggest a trial should take place.

One cannot reasonably expect an internet forum poster to provide rock solid evidence of such a thing, and doing so (as you do) is as common a debate tactic as it is intellectually disingenuous.

[timtom]

123. Perhaps this link will help to shine the light of truth on the issue

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x581610

There are links to federal documents/publications.

For your reading pleasure, geliebte Herr Duderstadt (oder "Dude" wie man sagt).

[SDuderstadt]

140. Umm, "timtom"...

At this point, the issue isn't UBC and Bush's involvement in it. The issue is the OP's claim that Prescott Bush was behind the Business Plot and his lack of evidence for that claim.

[Enthusiast]

129. Pfft

:rofl:

[Blue_In_AK]

65. K & R, Octafish.

Another excellent history lesson.

[Initech]

68. I tell you - it's six degrees of evil starring Prescott Bush.

[Octafish]

148. Doonesbury noticed it, too, back in the day...

Cover of the April 1992 issue of the now-defunct "Lies Of Our Times" starred the offspring of second son, George Herbert Walker Bush:



They've done very well in private business for themselves and their cronies and masters... oh...and government services, too.

PDF of the magazine.

[SDuderstadt]

149. Funny...

Trudeau says nothing about Prescott Bush being behind the Business Plot. Maybe you could learn from Trudeau.

[Rex]

154. I guess you could say they've been a 'success'

at being evil shit stains. The people that associate with the BFEE are the lowest scum on the planet imo.

[Mimosa]

155. The Bushies profited from keeping US Health Care system under private control

Before health care reform legislation was to be evaluated and enacted, I noticed the Carlisle Group, a Bush connected investments arm, was reported to be interested in acquiring interest private health insurance companies. BFEE will always profit.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-07-12/carlyle-group-joins-hunt-for-health-plan-acquisitions-after-u-s-overhaul.html

Carlisle group makes big bucks at every level of medical services, equipment, hospitals, nursing homes.

http://www.carlyle.com/Media%20Room/News%20Archive/Industry/item8264.html

[WillyT]

71. K & R !!!

:kick:

:hi:

[hifiguy]

73. A feudal fascism has been the dream of the plutocracy

ever since the days of Theodore Roosevelt. They hated TR, they hated FDR, Truman, JFK, LBJ, RFK, Carter, and even Ike. They are destroyers and enslavers and embody the essence of evil.

[AverageJoe90]

87. They weren't too happy with Nixon at some points either..........

....despite the fact they built up a good part of his career.

[AverageJoe90]

86. Who wants to bet that at least some of them are Ron Paul supporters?

[21st Century FDR]

91. Why would the Bush Crime Family support Ron Paul?

About the only thing they would agree on would be unregulated predatory capitalism.

Paul's not into their whole Bankster imperialism funded by drug money thing though.

[AverageJoe90]

111. He's a racist. AND a closeted corporatist.

Don't let the smooth talk fool ya. He is ONE slick operator.......you want some links?

[ooglymoogly]

96. Kr and a timely post.

[slay]

98. K&R

rich greedy sick fucks

[Dystopian]

99. KandR

peace~

[Name removed]

102. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DeSwiss]

104. K&R n/t

[snot]

106. We also don't have an FDR for anyone to bother to try to overthrow.

[Octafish]

109. They don't leave anything to chance, do they?

I had really hoped for our time's Ferdinand Pecora, William Black, to lead the investigation of the Great Control Fraud Financial Crisis. The abstract:

"Control frauds" are seemingly legitimate entities controlled by persons that use them as a fraud "weapon." (The person that controls the firm is typically the CEO, so that term is used in this testimony.) A single control fraud can cause greater losses than all other forms of property crime combined. Neo-classical economic theory, methodology, and praxis combine to optimize criminogenic environments that hyper-inflate financial bubbles and produce recurrent, intensifying financial crises. A criminogenic environment is one that creates such perverse incentives that it leads to widespread crime. Financial control frauds’ "weapon of choice" is accounting. Neoclassical theory, which dominates law & economics, is criminogenic because it assumes that control fraud cannot exist while recommending legal policies that optimize an industry for control fraud. Its hostility to regulation, endorsement of opaque assets that lack readily verifiable market values, and support for executive compensation that creates perverse incentives to engage in accounting control fraud and optimizes fraudulent CEOs’ ability to convert firm assets to the CEO’s personal benefit have created a nearly perfect crime. Studies have shown that control fraud was invariably present at the typical large S&L failure. There is a consensus about the decisive role of control fraud in the Enron era frauds. The FBI began testifying publicly in September 2004 that there was an epidemic of mortgage fraud and predicting that it would cause an economic crisis if it were not contained. Similar widescale control frauds have driven financial crises in other nations. It is astounding, therefore, that neo-classical economists overwhelmingly ignore even the possibility of control fraud in the current crisis.

Somehow, Dr. Black got froze out of the picture, too.

[CrawlingChaos]

107. K&R - great post - THANKS OCTAFISH!

I really appreciate your contributions here. :)

[defendandprotect]

112. And they did it the usual way -- rw political violence --

assassination -- stolen elections -- lies --

the money to pay for coups and cover ups --


I doubt there ever was a "Southern Strategy" -- I think there only ever

was a plan to use computers to steal elections --

I'd question every election back to Nixon/Humphrey which was another squeaker.


Computers began coming in during late 1960's --

Two journalists in Florida began to investigate the very out of line and unverifiable

results from computer voting --

They got a contract to write a book which you can read here on line -- if you're interested.

Book's availabe here and there for $3 or so --


Votescam -- The Stealing of America --

http://www.constitution.org/vote/votescam__.htm

[gordianot]

119. Precisely correct, here is the hope too much wealth will be their downfall.

The middle class in their country of origin will quickly tire of being renters.

[DemReadingDU]

120. bookmarking

lots of good info here and books to read, thanks!

[dotymed]

121. When FDR refused to prosecute the traitors

I don't believe he thought about 70-80 years down the road. He was doing (as usual) what he thought was best for the people of his time.

He knew that a scandal of this magnitude would rock America to it's core. Also, it made those elite, treasonous "captains of industry," much more "open" to his plans to help the majority of the people.

IMO, if he had a crystal ball, he would have prosecuted them.

[sulphurdunn]

122. Bankers should be on leashes

[Enthusiast]

130. Made of hemp and around their necks. nt

[XanaDUer]

125. It does seem to be some of the usual suspects

nt.

[Soylent Brice]

131. K&R

[tex-wyo-dem]

132. K&R!

[mckara]

133. Read About Neo-liberal Economics with Public Choice Theory Perspectives

These theories effect our lives everyday. Read their arguments and compare their goals with our current world and political posturing from the Ring-wing.

What is "Neo-Liberalism"?
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalDefined.html

A Short History of Neo-liberalism
http://www.globalexchange.org/campaigns/econ101/neoliberalism.html

[Octafish]

143. Little Timmy Geithner was on the tee vee today, sounding very neo-Liberal.

Gist from DUer DemocracyInaction's report:

"The American people are going to suffer like they have never suffered in their lifetime." And Timmy G. didn't bat an eyelash saying so.

Weird how people who've never suffered a day in their life have no trouble if others do. The neo-Libs sound like the neo-cons's, except branded for the Liberals, progressives and the Left, of course.

Thank you for the heads-up on GlobalExchange, mckara. They are top-flight.

[upi402]

134. kick n/t

[Major Hogwash]

144. Wow, great post!! Great link!!

I hate the entire Bush clan.