I haven't seen good evidence that Loughner was right wing

[usregimechange]

I think we need to let the investigation play out before making that conclusion.

Lets send some positive energy/prayer/wishes to Congresswoman Giffords and let the authorities do their job.

[elocs]

1. Why wait for facts when speculation is so engaging? n/t

[Lint Head]

2. I'm sure he was an insane liberal democrat with a 50 year old

progressive hippie driving a VW bus.

[gatorboy]

6. That just happened to show up at a rally hosted by a Democrat hated by the right.

Pure coincidence.

[usregimechange]

13. And listed the Communist Manifesto as a favortie book

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-jared-loughner-20110109,0,2181211.story

[Justitia]

16. yeah, and the totally leftist Mein Kampf

[usregimechange]

21. That is my point, not exactly a clear picture, there is better evidence he was psychotic

[Justitia]

22. You really did miss Mark Potok's segment didn't you? Read the Intelligence Report by SPLC

It is quite an education.

[usregimechange]

26. Will do

[d_r]

55. I agree with you

BUT, I don't think that "psychotic" and "influenced by hateful right wing rhetoric" or mutually exclusive.

[usregimechange]

57. Agreed.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. For me, the point of the matter is

Whatever his motivation, this underlines the over the top hate speech and actions encouraged by media and the likes of Sarah Palin. Motivation isn't really going to matter to me.

[DainBramaged]

Uh, I think you will be proven quite wrong sooner than later

[Warren Stupidity]

4. how ironic

you demand categorical evidence on one hand and then turn around and demand wishful thinking on the other.

[usregimechange]

11. Are you responding to what I said?

[Warren Stupidity]

15. and right over your head.

[usregimechange]

24. The demand that I didn't make that you pulled out of your ass?

[Warren Stupidity]

34. what the hell were your contradictory demands doing in my ass?

[usregimechange]

40. I'd much prefer an 'oh yeah well your momma' comment.

[XanaDUer]

5. Yes

I suspect he was right-leaning, but we need to learn more as the investigation proceeds. He may also be mentally ill. Which is sort of the same thing, I guess.

[Lex]

7. No, he was probably a peace-loving, liberal, who loved the Democrats.

I mean, that's clear, correct?

[Warren Stupidity]

8. the shooter targeted Giffords at a political rally.

yeah we should wait for the Blue Ribbon Commission.

[Justitia]

9. I guess you just missed Mark Potok of the Southern Poverty Law Ctr on KO

He had multiple links based on the suspects writings to some seriously whacked out, far right ideas.

[Warren Stupidity]

20. I suspect that only an Official Statement will suffice.

we've had these arguments here before. The 'no rush to judgement' crowd demands that we wait until we are Told By The Authorities what we should think.

[Justitia]

23. yeah, I'm starting to get that

[usregimechange]

35. He also said: "I don't control your English grammar structure"

[Justitia]

38. Which was addressed by Mark Potok of the SPLC - again, a right wing thing

Please read the Intelligence Report

[usregimechange]

41. Link? They don't have anything that recent that I can see

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report

[Justitia]

46. I think your best bet to read the transcript of Potok's segment when it's up

Mark Potok talked about the rightwing ideologies that these stmts spring from, and he named the leaders and publications.

The grammar weirdness comes from a British rightwing writer so it may not be in the Intelligence Rpt's most recent issues (focused on the USA).

I am a mbr of SPLC and I receive a subscription of the Intelligence Report, so I have read of these people / ideologies before, in depth, unfortunately - its sickening.

One particular article that will acquaint you with the various leaders and their branch of RW thinking is the "Meet The Patriots" article of this summer:

http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/summer/meet-the-patriots

[Justitia]

60. link to Potok's video segment

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/ns/msnbc_tv-countdown_with_keith_olbermann/#40982787

[eleny]

10. Which evidence do you reject?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bigwillq]

14. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lex]

17. 4 whole posts, eh?

Welcome to DU. LOL.

[tekisui]

19. You base that on what?

[Kali]

25. gee

weren't you here earlier with a different username but the same link and low low post count?

[Raine]

31. Yeah

I think they were, made it to about 15 post then, lol.

[usregimechange]

43. self delete

[Raine]

28. Just registered so you could post this, once you've been here

awhile you will learn that you need some proof when posting vague innuendos.

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lex]

50. Your link offers no proof whatsoever.

In fact, that poster is posting NOW, so ummm, he's probably not posting from the holding cell.

[tekisui]

51. Messenger of what?

You have offered nothing to suggest the shooter was boyblue.

Put up or shut up.

[Raine]

58. What is the proof this is the same person?

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tblue37]

37. Not possible. He is currently responding to posts, including to

one pointing out that he is being accused in the RW blogosphere of being the shooter. If he were the shooter (wh is in custody, you know), he could not be posting responses!

[Wetzelbill]

18. anti-government, worship of a perverted Constitution

embraces right-wing radical view of gold and silver. Showed up at a Dem congresswoman's event and shot her. If he isn't an outright RWer, he certainly embraces some of the most paranoid and conspiratorial of views from the right.

edit: made a typo in my original subject

[The Gunslinger]

27. And right now the rightist MSM

is working hard to paint the guy as not being a radical teabagger I'm sure. I can't wait to see how they pull it off.

[WinkyDink]

32. The attempted assassination of a Democratic politician isn't good enough for you?

[usregimechange]

45. No it isn't.

[NNN0LHI]

33. Shooting a Democratic Congresswoman in the head isn't enough evidence for you?

Hmmm. Something is funny here.

Don

[mix]

39. so what's your pet theory? nt

[Maru Kitteh]

42. I think you're right. I don't think bat-shit fucking nutz has a "wing"

Looking for any coherent political ideal in a totally disordered mind like this is just misguided in my opinion.

[usregimechange]

48. I agree there are more word salads than political speech

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

47. He strikes me as very schizophrenic.

But you have to see K.O. 's interview with the SPLC guy... he made some excellent points, giving names and references to Loughner's youtube videos and his views.

[Statistical]

49. He likely is seriously mentally ill. Schizophrenics are almost never ideologues.

They live in an altered reality of their own creating. They simply can't be communists, or RWers, or teabaggers, or any other structured group.

[usregimechange]

52. That is a better theory at this point based on what I have seen so far

[PerpetuallyDazed]

61. Read his writings, weird youtube vids...

Maybe they are influenced by his education (look at his reading list), but his "views" and "ideologies" are mostly disjointed and as incoherent as his writing. I'm more interested in finding out more about the second suspect -- white male in his 50's. Teabagger who encouraged the nut job, perhaps?

[hugo_from_TN]

62. Bingo.

He was all over the map.

[Kingofalldems]

53. Regardless you can bet he was influenced by hate radio

and there are no leftists calling for or hinting at violence. Freepers are dreaming up all kinds of scenarios about this guy , I notice. I guess they are desperate.

[MrsBrady]

54. an eye witness said the shooter asked specifically for the congresswoman

http://azstarnet.com/news/local/crime/article_76bc3c24-1b79-11e0-b748-001cc4c002e0.html

[Kingofalldems]

56. On Keith tonight--the guy from the Southern Poverty Law

Center said this guy's ideas were from the radical right.

[Doremus]

59. .

Of course you haven't. :eyes:

[wiggs]

63. Maybe. But it would be more irresponsible to assume that

these events had nothing to do with RW anger, hate, gun-oriented politics, rhetoric, and campaigning by smears and lies. Those who want to look at this in a vacuum....as though Obama hasn't had a record number of death threats, as though gun and ammo sales go through the roof when Obama was elected, as though "second amendment remedies" wasn't uttered and allowed to stand, as though the losing vp candidate didn't target the opposition with gun sights, as though pro-gun citizens didn't show up at rallies wearing guns for the first time in memory....are burying their heads in the sand.

It may be that this one particular incident involves an apolitical lunatic (doubt it). Maybe or maybe not...but that doesn't excuse the heightened right to violence that some people feel they've been given permission to harbor, nor does it excuse the politicians and pundits that play with matches with respect to violence and lunatics.

We should continue to find out about this guy and be accurate wrt his motives...but we should also continue to state the obvious: that continuous emotional talk of violence, of hate for the left, of marxism, of destruction of the country, of evil dem intentions not only could theoretically increase chances of real violence BUT pretty much damn well guarantees that some fringe character will hear the message in his own way and act on it. It MUST BE the obvious question and direction of discussion of this guy.

Never understood why, after calling a doctor 'baby-killer' for months on his show, OReilly was allowed to skate any responsibility or CHANCE of responsibility and stay on the air. I fear, likewise, that just because this guy's mental problems will overshadow the real OR POSSIBLE connection between low road Rovian-Hannity-Levin politics and the hate and violence that follows.