Attention DU legal experts!

[Texasgal]

Our family has an issue.

I will try to make it as short and to the point as I possibly can.

I have a grandpa that is 89 years old. He lost his beloved wife of over 60 years two years ago. He is a retired solider from the Navy, served career and retired. Served on many ships and has many a war story.

He has 7 kids, one of them who is my Mother.

His youngest daughter has always kind of been a fuck up. She never finished HS, is a prescription drug abuser, never has been able to hold a job for long and had a daughter at the age of sixteen whom my grandparents raised until she was 14 and got pregnant herself. Her daughter married a low life herself and has 4 kids. All under my grandparents roof.

Keeping up? :)

Here's a small background... my Grandparents were extremely poor. My grandmother worked into retirement as a hospital operator and my grandfather after his naval retirement worked odd jobs as a painter. They never had much, the house was small paid for but falling apart. My grandfather always had a garden in the back yard where he grew tomatoes out of old toilet bowls and other things he found on the street. He always grew the best squash! They were very simple people. Our family helped financially when we could, getting a new roof on the house several years ago, re-doing and old bathroom. Groceries always... bills etc.

However, the family has been torn apart by this issue of 3 perfectly capable working adults in the house and 4 kids all under 13. All living off my grandpa's SS and military pension.

After my grandmother died, my grandfather started to become depressed and despondent. The people in the house under the guise of "taking care" of him are starting to screw him.

Fast forward. my Mother got a call from grandpa, he was confused... he was getting calls from his bank his house is being for closed on. After some further investigation, my aunt and her crew had talked my grandpa into a refinance after grandma died. What they did with the money we have no idea, but the house payment hasn't been paid in seven months. She even got a power of attorney online and signed it.

After this was uncovered the family sprang into action. Grandpa is with me in my house. The others were asked to leave. The bank will not work with us. He has been moved out and the house is vacant and in foreclosure.

We have started to review his bills and his bank account. STartling!

2300.00 financed for a bed at Ashley furniture

2700.00 for a computer at Best buy

5500.00 for a new fridge ( which isn't in the house ) from Lowe's

Hundreds upon HUNDREDS of dollars pulsed out of his account, for what? I have no idea. A bunch of other shit.

Even more shocking, grandpa injured his back last year in his garden. He is feeling some pain, tried to get his RX filled and guess what? His RX had been fill 27 times in one year!!! 27 times! The pharmacy thinks he's a druggie!

Anyway, my question after all of this is what legal rights do we have? To me this seems like Elder abuse and I am angry! I want to press charges if there are any to my Aunt and her brood! Does grandpa have any legal recourse?

Thank you for reading this post. I know it's long... :)

[drm604]

1. Try this

I am NOT a lawyer and I know nothing about this website but it looks like it might be helpful.
http://www.lawhelp.org/

LawHelp helps low and moderate income people find free legal aid programs in their communities, and answers to questions about their legal rights.

...

LawHelp is your gateway to America's nonprofit legal aid providers

[Texasgal]

2. Thanks. I'll check it out

:)

[Coyote_Bandit]

3. Ummmm......

I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this.

Please call and talk to a local attorney. Many offer free initial consultations.

You will not get reliable legal advice on an internet discussion board.

:hug:

[Texasgal]

5. Oh I know, I am sure I'll find

something... I guess i was just more venting and asking advice.

DU'er seem to rock when it comes to off the wall questions!

Thank you for your response. :hug:

[Stinky The Clown]

4. Make two calls:

The cops

A lawyer







Many states have specific elderly laws that may apply.

[Texasgal]

6. Really, the cops?

I mean, I have no issue with that at all!

Haven't thought about that! I like the way you think!

Thank you for your response! :hug:

[Chan790]

22. Yes, call the cops.

I'd have recommended this if Stinky had not.

The drug stuff is serious bad news as that level of abuse usually represents drug-dealing more than drug-selling and as a banker I can tell you that though we're not supposed to know if that kind of thing is being investigated or reported (the ins. co. is legally-obligated to report any suspicion of drug-supplying or script abuse to the DEA.) we almost always do and our standard CYA behavior is to completely shut-out any attempt to do anything but foreclose and get the hell out. We don't want mortgages on drug dens and the last headache we need is to get roped into holding liens or notes on assets in the middle of a criminal investigation.

[Stinky The Clown]

37. To be clear, call the cops with respect to abuse of your grandfather

Let them get into any other issues they wish (like the drugs). Elderly abuse is rampant in this country and most states now have specific laws regarding it. Your focus, initially, ought to be solely on the old man's physical well being - which includes not only physical abuse, but also mental and verbal abuse, interference with his general well-being, and activities of daily living (showering, meals, entertainment, exercise, etc.).

You might also call the VA.

And (perhaps) near(ish) you, in Gulfport, MS is one of the Armed Forces Retirement Homes. If he is a career retiree, he is eligible, although space is severely limited. Worth a look-see, maybe. https://www.afrh.gov/afrh/gulf/gulfcampus.htm


edit to add link

[Lars39]

7. Power of attorney can be revoked.

Run to a good lawyer.

[Texasgal]

9. I thought so too..

How can someone get an power of attorney online??

What's sad? The house he has lived in for over fifty years is gone... he will never be able to go back. I am sad for him.

[sad sally]

35. Do you know if the power of attorney is legal (legal notary)?

Get the law involved; it's an awful thing to have to do, but sometimes necessary (speaking from experience). Contact local social services, maybe they won't do much, but the more documentation you can get the better, as it may end up in court.

As for your dear Father, do you suspect dementia? If yes, you'll have more ammunition to fight the wrong done to him.

Stay strong; he needs you.

[drpepper67]

11. And what about filing bankruptcy?

I mean if all those bills aren't actully his, why should he pay them?

If he's losing his house anyway, I don't see why not just file on the whole mess and start over with a clean record.

[Texasgal]

12. This is a thought.

I mean no one in our family has enogh money to cover the expenses he was screwed on.

Good idea.

[Kaleva]

8. I'd gather all the info, put it in order and call the police.

There may be clear criminal charges. At the same time, I'd look for a lawyer. As said, many do offer free consultation.

[hifiguy]

10. Almost all local bar associations have a "help line"

and referral service. Couldn't hurt to give your local bar ass'n a ring.

[pennylane100]

13. I do not know what state you live , but I think from your name it might be Texas.

I do not know if you are able to consult an attorney, although you might check the phone book, as many offer a free consultation as to what your options are in getting your grandfather's home and money back.

If that is not an option, if you are close to a law school or a free legal clinic, you could try there because it would be best to get a legal opinion as to how to proceed, especially as it involves family members in clearly what is a case of elder abuse.

If none of these options are available, you may want to contact local or even state level authorities that deal with this type of abuse. One way would be to google elder abuse along with the city or county you live in. That should give you a starting place.

I hope you are able to get some help in dealing with a terrible situation that you and your grandfather are dealing. I think it makes it much harder when it is your own family that are the troublemakers.

[jaxx]

14. Financial exploitation of the elderly.

Get a lawyer....fast.

[Texasgal]

20. It's so heartbreaking.

I for one cannot imagine doin this to my my own parents.

It's so disgusting.

I plan on getting an attorney now. Thank you for your response. :hug:

[jaxx]

21. Good luck.

:hug:

[Chan790]

15. It's going to cost money but get a lawyer...

a real asshole with lots of fancy shit in his expensive downtown office. Note that this type of lawyer is usually a scumbag and is probably a hardcore RWer. Embrace it...he's your scumbag and he got to where he is by being something akin to a cross between a Rottweiler and the devil. (Though not always a RW. One of my best friends from college is that lawyer and he's the biggest lefty I know...he views himself as a sort of avenging angel of justice.)

I went through this, the best advice you'll ever get is "big fancy powerful asshole lawyer." Don't try to be nice, don't try to salvage family ties because you really can't. Go in hard, go for blood, challenge the POA even if that means having to do something as unsavory as accuse your grandpa of being incompetent and senile. Expect that grandpa's going to fight you on this because the last thing he and any patriarch wants to see is his progeny tearing each other to shreds. Document everything. In case you missed that...DOCUMENT EVERYTHING. The big one here is the RX...someone is probably going to suffer for that and if it's not your aunt or cousin or one of that crew...it'll be your grandpa. That's red-flag behavior for drug-selling more than abuse...I'm shocked if the scrip was for any kind of narcotic or opiate that you didn't hear about this first from DEA. Insurance companies are required to report that kind of flag behavior.

[elleng]

26. Disagree; NO NEED to get asshole/scumbag lawyer,

PLENTY good, honest, hard-hitting lawyers around, and local Bar Associations, as well as courts, will help find them.

DO cross-examine any atty you speak with re: experience dealing with similar matters.

Texasgal, P.M. me if you'd like.

[Texasgal]

27. Thanks EllenG!

:hug:

[elleng]

28. YVW, Texasgal.

Sounds like issues re: POA, refinance, + foreclosure, among other things.

:hi:

[Gman]

16. Go to the District Attorney

every state has laws against abusing and defrauding the elderly.

[enough]

17. Your County may have a Department of "Aging" or something like it. (Might be called "elder care."_

In our County in PA, it's called the Department of Aging and is under the Department of Human Services.

These people will know what services are available to you and your family. They will know if what sort of path you might take. At the very least they can give you some guidance.

It seems pretty clear that there is some kind of financial abuse (or even fraud) going on. They will probably also be interested in the issue of the prescriptions.

I would definitely put them on your "to-call" list and try them tomorrow morning. If you can't figure out what department to call, call the main number at the County.

A lawyer who specializes in elder issues would be an excellent idea also, but money might be an issue. That's why I suggest the County.

[csziggy]

18. Check to see what state resources there may be

Some states have very good Elder Care agencies.

Texas has the Texas Department of Aging and Disability Services (DADS)
http://www.dads.state.tx.us/index.cfm

"If you are concerned about the treatment of an older Texan or someone with a disability, call 1-800-458-9858 to contact DADS Consumer Rights and Services. Consumer Rights and Services employees take complaints about the treatment of people who receive services in long-term care facilities or in their homes."

Here is a list of places that may also be able to help:
http://www.twc.state.tx.us/svcs/workfamch/eclist.html

If this happened to one of my parents, I would do the following - not legal advice, just what I would do to stop the bleeding: first thing, change his legal address to where he is staying. Get a power of attorney made out to you or to whichever family member will be handling his business. If his pension and SSN checks are automatically deposited, get them changed to a new account. Report the prescription abuse to the police and see if a copy of the police report will allow him to get his needed prescriptions and the overuse of prescriptions taken off his records.

Good luck with this. I hope you can save his home. :hug:

[Texasgal]

19. I knew DU would come through!

Wow! great info.

Thank you so much. I am off on monday and will start to make the calls!

[roxiejules]

23. Here are a few thoughts...

If your Grandpa was not mentally competent at the time he did the refinance the transaction should not have closed.

Was a Power of Attorney used for the refinance?

Are you sure he knew he was signing a Power of Attorney? (The Notary Public would have had to be present for him to sign a Power of Attorney. Forging signatures and talking a notary into signing/sealing the document without the signer present is more common than you would think.)

Who is the lender?

Did a Title/Escrow Company do the refinance closing?

It would be worth your time to figure out where the refinance closing took place. Sometimes they are at a title company or a mobile notary is sent to the house.

[Texasgal]

25. These are still questions to be answered.

With him safely out of the house and the other brood gone we are confused as to the whole story.

We do know for a fact that the house was refinanced, under what circumstance we don't know.

Grandpa seems on top of things sometimes and others he seems confused. I wish I knew the whole story, but I don't. :(

[roxiejules]

36. More things to think about....

You can get a copy of the Mortgage from the County Recorder's office (County where property is located). You may even be able to look it up online if the County has online access. That copy will tell you whether he signed the mortgage or someone signed as his Power of Attorney.

The reason I asked about where the closing was done is because the Notary Public and Title Company may be liable, depending on the circumstances. If there was evidence of his incompetency or coercion at signing they were responsible for stopping the transaction from going forward. If a Power of Attorney was used they should have verified it was not fraudulent and that he understood that equity was being pulled out of his primary residence.

Most likely title insurance was issued to cover the lender at the time of closing. If they failed in their fidicuary responsibilites the title company may be on the hook to the lender.

If you can find out which Title Company did the closing....request a copy of all documents from the transaction.

[roxiejules]

39. News story from last year about a similar case

highlights another good point to remember:


http://www.mortgagefraudblog.com/index.php/weblog/permalink/woman_who_defrauded_disabled_elderly_victim_arrested/

Woman Who Defrauded Disabled Elderly Victim Arrested

According to the indictment, Rebecca Moody is alleged to have engaged in a scheme to defraud an 80-year-old disabled woman by using a fraudulently obtained power of attorney to procure a fraudulent mortgage loan from Wells Fargo Bank on the victim's unencumbered residence without the victim's knowledge. The indictment claims that Moody was also engaged in the theft of other funds from other accounts belonging to the victim in order to acquire money for Moody's personal use, and for the use of her daughter, all in contradiction of her fiduciary capacity to conduct the financial affairs in the best interest of the disabled and elderly victim.



:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

24. Not exactly the same -

but my mom was about 80 and got ripped off by a door to door salesman. My sister was living with my mom, who had dementia. One day my sister was in the shower and the doorbell rang. My mom answered and 5 minutes later she was the owner of a gazillion dollar vacuum cleaner.

So we called the city - because we knew there was a Green River ordinance banning door to door sales. They sent the police over who took a report and told us there was a law in our state against swindling the elderly. Sorry can't remember what they called the law.

Anyhow, the state AG got involved, they got my mom's money back and pressed charges against the salesman. It all went down in about a 10 day period. Very fast. We were amazed.

Oh and when my mom died a year or so later and we were cleaning out her house, we found that vacuum cleaner in an upstairs closet. So she got her money back AND kept the gazillion dollar vacuum cleaner. Which turned out to be a piece of shit.:)

Moral of the story - call the cops.

[kestrel91316]

29. ELDER ABUSE. GRAND THEFT. Call the DA RIGHT NOW.

[Hassin Bin Sober]

32. Agree totally.

I doubt the OP will have to hire an attorney. At least not right away. The DA will want to peruse financials right away and WILL get to the bottom of this.

[ebbie15644]

30. area of aging

does a lot with this contact them for some great advice!

[kestrel91316]

31. I'm serious. Go straight to your District Attorney's office.

[Samantha]

33. Many law schools have legal aid clinics

Just to check a couple out, I went to Georgetown's site. They are opening one. Then I checked Harvard. Here's the link: http://www.harvardlegalaid.org/about-us/clinical-staff

I know neither of these are in your area, but if I were you I would ask the Harvard legal aid if that is an issue. I would also ascertain what law schools are in my area and check with them.

Good luck in your search. I feel so sorry for your Grandfather; I am hoping (although I don't think the chances would be great) that there might be a legal way to get that house back. There are foreclosure defense lawyers now advertising; perhaps Harvard might be able to help with this as well.

Please keep us posted.

Good wishes,
Sam

[Moosepoop]

34. A couple of links to check out...

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services: http://www.dfps.state.tx.us/

Family Eldercare (offices in Austin and Georgetown): http://www.familyeldercare.org/home

Best of luck with all this -- please let us know what you do and how it turns out!

[dgibby]

38. I'm assuming your grandpa was getting his meds from

his military retirement benefits (TRICARE for LIFE)and/or the VA. If that is the case, then whoever is abusing those prescriptions is defrauding the govt.,which is a federal offense. The VA will NOT be amused by this, believe me. I'm a retired Navy nurse, and the military has zero tolerance when it comes to rx abuse. Please notify his Dr and pharmacy about this problem.

Your grandpa also needs a complete mental status eval if he hasn't had one. If you can prove diminished mental capacity/dementia/etc, it will definitely strengthen your case against your relatives. Good luck-I hope they throw the book at those deadbeats!

PS: your grandpa is a sailor, not a solider: that would be Army.:hi:

[Texasgal]

41. OOOH!

Good point!

Never thought about that! He IS on TRICARE!

And yes, he was a sailor.. sorry for the mistake. I am very proud of him. :hug:

[wellstone dem]

40. I hope I"m not repeating

But your grandpa is a vulnerable adult. Many states have laws protecting vulnerable adults. Contact your county or prosecuting or District attorney's office, whatever it might be called in your state.

Someone who has a power of attorney has a fiduciary responsibility to use that power of attorney to benefit the signer. Unfortunately, they probably don't have any resources which you can take to compensate your Dad civilly, but this may be part of the crime of taking advantage of a vulnerable adult.

Most legal aid offices have a "senior law project" which will know what you can do. They will be able to advise you of whether or not any of the creditors can collect from your grandpa. If all he has is SS and a veteran's pension, that all may be protected from a creditor.

http://www.legalhotlines.org/seniorlegalaid.php#

http://www.texaslawhelp.org/TX/StateDirectory.cfm/County/%20/City/%20/demoMode/=%201/Language/1/State/TX/TextOnly/N/ZipCode/%20/LoggedIn/0

http://www.fbasouthtexas.org/handbook.pdf

[mzmolly]

42. If your grandpa never authorized power of attorney

he has recourse and the bank has to pursue fraud. If the POA form was forged, be sure to tell the bank this is what happened. If the bank refuses to help, contact local police. If your grandpa actually signed a power of attorney form, you'd have a harder time getting legal action.

Best of luck.

*I'm not a legal expert, but I worked in banking and finance for a number of years.

[MineralMan]

43. Contact the police in that place. Keep at it until they investigate

and prosecute. It will be the best thing for all concerned. What these people have done to your grandfather is a serious crime.

[catrose]

44. Ditto reporting to everybody you can think of

And as for the bank, banks have been known to be suddenly helpful when negative publicity starts appearing, such as, for instance, when they're accused of evicting a fragile elderly long-time resident and veteran who was defrauded by family.