If the US defaults, who's going to bail us out?

[bluesbassman]

Ain't gonna be the EU, they're up to their necks in their own problems. China perhaps? I think their books are cooked and they ain't got the reserves.

Any guesses how the default goes down?

[joshcryer]

1. Likely social security and medicare would be hit hard, no more payouts.

We'd pay our foreign debts.

I don't think anyone could afford to "bail us out." We already have tons of foreign debt.

[Drale]

2. I would say Canada because they are good peoples but

Canada is controlled by right wing lunatics as well.

[pnwmom]

12. Canada's economy is a fraction of ours. But theirs would be dragged down, too.

Europe is already in trouble. If we were heading for a depression, we'd drag the rest of the world down with us.

[RKP5637]

18. Yep, it'll be global, we're too big and will likely take most with us into a

global depression.

[murphyj87]

21. Actually, for the most part, ....

Canadian Conservatives would be more aligned with Obama on the American political scale, and in a few issues, Canadian Conservatives would be to the left of Obama. In general terms, Canadian Conservatives are nowhere near American Republicans, let alone Americans Conservatives. It is the former Reform Party members of the current Conservative party who are the extremists. The 30% to 40% of current Conservatives who were former Progressive Conservatives, especially those who were Red Tories (more liberal than normal Progressive Conservatives) will tend to keep Harper nearer the middle, when push comes to shove.

The former Reform Party Conservatives are the right wing lunatics, but they are only a small majority (maybe 60%) of the whole Conservative party.

Defense Minister Peter MacKay is former leader of the Progressive Conservatives, and, despite noises Harper made that Canadian fighting troops might stay in Afghanistan, Canadian responsibility there has been handed over to American troops and Canadian fighting troops are on their way home ..... more in line with MacKay's Progressive Conservative leanings than Harper's Reform Party leanings.

I actually think it is possible that Canada will be a positive factor for the US, if the US goes into default, as Republicans want, and even Canadian Conservative policies are nearer the middle of the road in American terms than those of American Republicans, and sometimes, in a handful of ways, the the left of Obama.

My personal opinion is that it would be better for the US to default rather than giving in to Republicans ... again, for about the 5th time with little to show for Obama and Democrats caving in to Republicans all the other times. Clinton tax rates or default is the choice to be made .... no caving.

Of course, that's the opinion of a Canadian NDP'er (for over 40 years), not an American.

[DJ13]

3. As the stock markets fall apart

(because we all know thats DC's sole measure of our economy now)

... Congress will pass an emergency extension of a few days, with both sides waiting for the other to blink first.

If that doesnt soothe the angst on Wall St, the big money players will push to end the madness, hopefully by pressing the GOP to cease playing games and pass an extension like they did 7 times under the Bush administration.

[dbonds]

4. We don't need no stinking badges - I mean bailouts...

We just need to cut the military spending. Maybe tone down a war or two or three. Ten years seems like a long time to give away all our money to the military industry. Hey, maybe they can bail us out ;P

[bluesbassman]

8. That's kinda what I'm afraid of.

Seriously though, toning down a war or two would be good in more ways than one. :)

[Fumesucker]

14. Unfortunately cutting the military and all wars wouldn't be enough..

You'd have to raise taxes and probably cut some domestic programs too.

It's whose taxes and which programs that the fight is about.

[dbonds]

17. You really think half of this wouldn't be enough?

[Fumesucker]

19. Not gonna happen, not half..

We got an increase this year just voted on and they're all yelling about SS and Medicare cuts.

[dbonds]

20. But you agree that it would be more than enough.

Just tone down the wars. Stop feeding the military industry at the expense of everyday Americans.

[Fumesucker]

22. Trouble is that spending does stimulate the economy..

Not as much as spending on other things, both by government and by people, but it does stimulate.

That means it's really hard to be sure if that would be a big enough cut because it would cut a lot of medium and large businesses who would immediately lay off people.

All calculations of that sort aside, you're right.

[dbonds]

30. We have been throwing trillions of dollars down that hole for over 10 years...

And it hasn't 'stimulated' the economy. The economy has gotten worse. What it has done is created a dependence on that industrial sector for jobs, but that money isn't freely flowing out to the rest of the country. Just like all the other huge companies out there, the people at the top are taking all the profits and not putting them back in the economy. And now our country has a financial dependence on war. We need to get rid of that all together. We have way more than it takes to adequately defend ourselves.

I'm thinking about what should be done for the long term growth, even though it might cause a disruption at first. And 'half' is just a random percentage - the percentage should be what ever it takes.

[JDPriestly]

25. Problem is, they really can't save much on Social Security and Medicare,

If seniors had to suddenly live off their retirement savings, Wall Street would really be in bad shape. That's not going to work.

And seniors who don't have even a small amount in retirement funds would have to go on welfare. It just would not work.

Nursing homes would have to shut down because many of the rely on Social Security for whatever funding Medicaid does not pay.

I once read the amount the average American had saved by retirement. It wasn't much.

[TK421]

5. I think Greece is out of the question n/t

[PoliticAverse]

6. We'll bail ourselves out with Wall Street taking their cut... n/t

[TK421]

7. Hey...what about Armenia? I mean they got a hol....damn, nevermind n/t

[unkachuck]

9. "...who's going to bail us out?"

....as we go through this depression we should all remember one thing, printing presses are our friend.

[bluesbassman]

10. Right there. Can't wait to see whose picture they put on the million dollar bill.

:rofl:

[JDPriestly]

26. Don't joke. I remember trying to figure out how many zillion

lira I needed to pay for a train ticket somewhere in Italy way back when. (It was about a thousand lira to a dollar at point when we were in Italy.)

We assume that one dollar should buy at least something, but there is no guarantee about that. It could happen that what we buy now for a dollar would cost $10. It's totally arbitrary.

[bluesbassman]

28. Well the really scary thought is that the dollar gets devalued, but wages stay the same.

Why would we expect anything else? As we see now, corporations have been reaping windfall profits in the last decade, causing the overall price of goods to rise, yet real wages have not. What would motivate employers to raise compensation to account for the new devalued dollar? They've already demonstrated that the corporate bottom line is the only concern they have.

[JDPriestly]

29. What would motivate employers?

Strikes combined with a movement to impose tariffs or high taxes on imports.

[shanti]

27. time for the amero!

*running*....

[pnwmom]

11. No one. The world catapults into a deeper depression.

That's the problem.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nadinbrzezinski]

15. Oh we will, wet dream actually of a few places like the IMF

I will let you guess why with these words: IMF Austerity Plan...

[aquart]

16. Goldman Sachs will be johnny-on-the-spot.

Interest free, too.

[girl gone mad]

23. The US can't default unless our politicians choose to do so.

They won't, but even if they did, we wouldn't need a bailout.

[JDPriestly]

24. Maybe we will get a new economic consciousness --

like something a little less greedy. You just change the valuation of your currency and all debts are off.

There will probably be a war of currency revaluations. I remember in the 1950s and early 1960s, the French revalued their currency. Suddenly an old Franc was no longer worth a new Franc.
...

In January 1960 the French franc was revalued at 100 existing francs. Old one- and two-franc pieces continued to circulate as centimes (no new centimes were minted for the first two years), 100 of them making a nouveau franc (the abbreviation NF was used on banknotes for some time). Inflation continued to erode the currency's value, but much more slowly than that of some other countries. The one-centime coin never circulated widely. Only one further major devaluation occurred (in August 1969) before the Bretton Woods system was replaced by free-floating exchange rates. Nonetheless, when the Euro replaced the franc on 1 January 1999, the franc was worth less than an eighth of its original 1960 value.

The old franc pieces were gradually withdrawn. They ceased to be legal tender in January 2002, upon the official adoption of the euro.

After revaluation and the introduction of the new franc, many French people continued to speak of old francs (anciens francs), to describe large sums. For example, lottery prizes were often advertised in amounts of centimes, equivalent to the old franc. Multiples of 10NF were occasionally referred to as "mille francs" (thousand francs) or "mille balles" ("balle" being a slang word for franc) in contexts where it was clear that the speaker did not mean 1000 new francs. The expression "heavy franc" (franc lourd) was also commonly used to designate the new franc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_franc

So, one possibility is really rampant inflation which is why the Republicans want to change the way COLAs are figured. They would reap a double benefit if Social Security benefits are not raised to meet inflation and on top of that you have inflation. That would destroy Social Security.

So don't think for a minute that if a deal is agreed, the Republicans will stop running up deficits whenever they get in power. They hate Social Security and would do anything to ruin this successful government program. It disproves their whole "free markets" "privatization is best" nonsense.