OMG--Did You Hear Geithner on Face the Nation?

[DemocracyInaction]

I'm surprised this hasn't blown up all over the place. He was asked about the terrible job numbers.

He replied first about how there should have been so many things taken care of/fixed over the years that weren't, blah, blah. Then he said this will continue for a long time AND that the American people are going to suffer like they have never suffered in their lifetime. (He wasn't talking about the debt ceiling, etc....he just plain said as a matter of fact that we are going to suffer like we have never suffered in our lifetime). Ummm, maybe it's time to show us what exactly is in Obama's litte "cuts" package. Anyway, his comments should just about tank the stock market tomorrow. I about dropped my teeth that he wasn't even evasive or coy about it.......

[Enrique]

1. theyve said it before

when Obama took office, he and Summers were talking about how unemployment is going to remain high for years. Therefore, people shouldnt expect the government to try to fix it, we should get used to it.

and remember,at that time the dems had large majorities in both houses, and Obama had a massive mandate.

[ClarkUSA]

20. Democrats never had a solid veto-proof majority, thanks to Joe Lieberman.

Just look at how hard it was to pass a stimulus plan, much less HCR.

[mistertrickster]

22. I'll bet you a 25 dollar donation to DemUnderground that you drop your Obama photo

by the end of the year.

Nobody was more of his fan when he ran than I was . . . alas . . .

[ClarkUSA]

26. That offer is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[mistertrickster]

40. Hehe, it's a win-win . . . nt

[Jakes Progress]

142. Not this one.

Politics of personality. If Obama switched parties, started a war with Mexico, eliminated SS, and moved the capital gains tax to zero, that picture would still be there.

[MessiahRp]

237. Sadly none of the apologists on this board ever seem to come around...

They are EXACTLY the same as the Republicans who refused to admit that Bush ever did anything wrong. Obama is right, no matter what he does and they will twist themselves in knots spinning for him. They'll take blunt statements by the Administration and apply their own meanings to what they said or try to nitpick at the wording to somehow prove nothing of substance was ever really said at all. They'll take their actions like appointing mostly conservatives who love the idea of cutting social programs to the deficit commission and conflate their meanings or argue strongly that they have no connection with what's happening even as it's widely reported that Obama and his team are more than willing to cut said social programs.

This man can never fail in their minds. They've pushed the chips all in with him and will stand by his side steadfastly even if they look like fools for it. Because to them, loyalty to a man trumps loyalty to principles.

Rp

[tavalon]

160. Hate to say it, but anyone who hasn't figured out that Obama isn't standing up for us

will not figure it out, ever.

[Name removed]

217. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[bvar22]

49. Oh, yes.

"It was ALL Joe Lieberman's fault."
Joe Lieberman is a BULLY, and he beat up poor President Obama.
There was NOTHING we could do.
It was horrible.:cry:

"Strong and successful presidents (meaning those who get what they want - whether that happens to be good for the country or not) do not accept "the best deal on the table". They take out their carpentry tools and the build the goddam piece of furniture themselves. Strong and successful presidents do not get dictated to by the political environment. They reshape the environment into one that is conducive to their political aspirations."

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/07/17

"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."
--- Paul Wellstone

[Zen Democrat]

108. LJB's talking to his "Uncle Dick Russell" there. His mentor in the Senate.

[robinlynne]

126. We (or they), then Democratic Party could have kept him out of office. He ran against the Democrat a

and the p[arty said not a word. When he won they let him keep chairmanships!!!! This is entirely the D Party's doing. They did everything to keep progressives out of office, and keep right wingers in. It worked. (I know you know, just ranting.)

[disillusioned73]

233. I know what your saying..

every time I see the Joe Lieberman gambit it makes me chuckle.. only because it is funny to think that anyone is still buying it.

That whole convenient whipping boy scenario was devised long ago... did people forget that Lieberman campaigned in McCains behalf???? And then when BO was elected and many here and elsewhere expected Lieberman's well deserved punishment... what happened - nothing. The Dems NEED Lieberman and others like him, to take the heat from the left and deflect it from the real backstabbing corporate assholes within the party... it's actually quite masterful, and it works on those who don't pay attention and/or choose conveniently not to.

[bvar22]

236. Absolutely.

Joe Lieberman took one for Team DLC.
He had nothing to lose.
If not Lieberman, they would have sacrificed someone else.

It was ALL Kabuki Theater.

[spooked911]

241. Wellstone!!!!

nice post

[JHB]

66. Remind us who backed Lieberman against the Democratic candidate for Senate?

Remind us who agreed to letting Lieberman retain all his committee appointments without extracting a little insurance that he would vote with the administration's initiatives, especially when his vote was the deciding factor.

Remind us of what quiet, behind the scenes retaliation Liberman has suffered for not doing so?

[ClarkUSA]

76. DINO Bill campaigned for DINO Joe at a big rally in July & praised his fellow former DLC chairman.

Before a roaring crowd in Waterbury's Palace Theater, Bill Clinton slung a companionable arm over Sen. Joe Lieberman's shoulder. . . In a 23-minute speech, the former president made the case that Democrats should not abandon their leaders over the war issue. Lieberman's unyielding support for the war in Iraq has turned Connecticut's Aug. 8 primary into a startlingly fierce contest, pitting a three- term U.S. senator and vice presidential nominee against a political neophyte, Ned Lamont, who advocates setting a deadline to withdraw troops. . .

After praising Lieberman's record on education and healthcare, Clinton addressed what he called "the pink elephant in the living room."

"No Democrat is responsible for the mistakes that have been made since the fall of Saddam Hussein," he said. "We're not responsible for the fact that that a lot of those kids still don't have body armor … and there's billions of dollars that have been given out in no-bid contracts and millions that are just missing. We're not responsible for that. So I say, we can fight later in the future about what do we do next, and honorable people can disagree." LA Times

http://www.democracyforcalifornia.com/blog/archives/001508.html

"Bill Clinton Stumps For Joe Lieberman"
Read even more here: http://themoderatevoice.com/7398/bill-clinton-stumps-for-joe-lieberman/

"Senator Joe Lieberman Watch: Bill Clinton Defends Lieberman’s Position on Iraq War":
http://flapsblog.com/2006/07/17/senator-joe-lieberman-watch-bill-clinton-defends-liebermans-position-on-iraq-war/

Bubba's stem-winding and outspoken support for Joementum was a godsend because at the time, he was the head of the Democratic Party, for all intensive purposes.

[robdogbucky]

113. "for all intensive purposes.

I believe that the phrase is actually, "for all intents and purposes,"

but I am happy to be corrected.


Mondregreens rule!

[JHB]

119. Yes, the party leadership thought that was a bright idea.

Please address the additional points, especially considering Lieberman's campaigning for McCain/Palin in 2008.

[no limit]

222. I see you are still calling Bill Clinton a DINO without any sense of irony

[girl_interrupted]

242. As did Obama, how could you have forgotten that?

Obama Endorses Lieberman for Senate
The New York Times reports that Joe Lieberman did not command the attention or respect of his audience at a fundraising event in Connecticut Thursday night.

Three times on Thursday night, Senator Joseph I. Lieberman asked the crowd of 1,700 for quiet during his remarks at the state Democrats' annual Jefferson Jackson Bailey fund-raising dinner. "Shhh," he told the guests. But rather than interrupting him with applause, many were ignoring him, having struck up conversations after finishing their chicken.

The inattentiveness -- as well as the scattered boos amid the supportive calls of "Joe" that welcomed Mr. Lieberman to the podium -- convinced some that the three-term senator, criticized for months because of his continued support for the war in Iraq, may be vulnerable in the primary challenge he faces.

Who came to his rescue? Sen. Barack Obama, with a ringing endorsement.


"I know that some in the party have differences with Joe," Senator Obama said, all but silencing the crowd. "I'm going to go ahead and say it. It's the elephant in the room. And Joe and I don't agree on everything. But what I know is, Joe Lieberman's a man with a good heart, with a keen intellect, who cares about the working families of America."

Then, with applause beginning to build, he finished the thought: "I am absolutely certain that Connecticut's going to have the good sense to send Joe Lieberman back to the United States Senate." That time, people cheered loudly.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2006/04/02/164/90446


In fact, since it was a Democratic Primary, if you bothered to look at your own link, it says: "Connecticut's Aug. 8 primary", they all(Democrats) backed Lieberman, until he lost and decided to run as an Independent. Once Lamont won, Democrats backed him.

"Democrats Back Lamont; Lieberman Files for Independent Run"
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,207516,00.html

[robinlynne]

127. Believe me I won't forget.

[Chisox08]

68. Why would the Dems need a veto proof majority when it is a Democrat holding the veto pen?

[Dept of Beer]

72. Don't worry. It's just smoke and mirrors to place accountability elsewhere.

[ClarkUSA]

81. Wrong again. See Reply #82.

[Dept of Beer]

150. More white noise I see. One thing you're good at.

[defendandprotect]

191. Exactly -- !!

[ClarkUSA]

79. Two words: "Republican filibuster"

[eomer]

98. Three words beat your two words: "budget reconciliation process".

A reconciliation bill cannot be filibustered.

Democrats chose not to use this tool except for the final healthcare changes and some education reform that got tacked on with it. If they had used it for other budget-related issues like raising taxes there was nothing Republicans could do to stop them.

[ClarkUSA]

107. My facts stand. Senate rules forbade using that trick pony on certain types of legislation.

Read more: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)

[eomer]

121. Essentially, reconciliation legislation must be budget-related, which covers a lot of ground.

Almost all the things that liberals wanted Obama to do either could have been done in a reconciliation bill or else could have been done by an act of the President without Congress. In the latter category are ending the wars and not starting any new ones. Obama needed no cooperation at all from Congress to accomplish that. Most everything else is budget-related.

Which issues are you thinking of that couldn't have been addressed through reconciliation?

For background, below are the tables of contents of a couple of reconciliation bills to establish the kinds of things that can be done in them. And here is a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reconciliation_(United_States_Congress)#Examples">Wikipedia page with links to prior reconciliation bills. You may want to browse through them before you make any claims about things that can't be done through reconciliation.

Financial Freedom Act of 1999

TABLE OF CONTENTS:

Title I: Broad-Based and Family Tax Relief
Subtitle A: Reduction in Individual Income Taxes
Subtitle B: Family Tax Relief
Subtitle C: Repeal of Alternative Minimum Tax on Individuals
Title II: Relief from Taxation on Savings and Investments
Subtitle A: Capital Gains Tax Relief
Subtitle B: Individual Retirement Arrangements
Title III: Alternative Minimum Tax Reform
Title IV: Education Savings Incentives
Title V: Health Care Provisions
Title VI: Estate Tax Relief
Subtitle A: Estate, Gift, and Generation-Skipping Taxes; Repeal of Step Up in Basis At Death
Subtitle B: Reductions of Estate and Gift Tax Rates Prior to Repeal
Subtitle C: Unified Credit Replaced Unified Exemption Amount
Subtitle D: Modifications of Generation-Skipping Tax
Subtitle E: Conservation Easements
Title VII: Tax Relief for Distressed Communities and Industries
Subtitle A: American Community Renewal Act of 1999
Subtitle B: Farming Incentive
Subtitle C: Oil and Gas Incentives
Subtitle D: Timber Incentive
Subtitle E: Steel Industry Incentive
Title VIII: Relief for Small Businesses
Title IX: International Tax Relief
Title X: Provisions Relating to Tax-Exempt Organizations
Title XI: Real Estate Provisions
Subtitle A: Improvements in Low-Income Housing Credit
Subtitle B: Provisions Relating to Real Estate Investment Trusts
Subtitle C: Modification of At-Risk Rules for Publicly Traded Nonrecourse Debt
Subtitle D: Treatment of Certain Contributions to Capital of Retailers
Subtitle E: Private Activity Bond Volume Cap
Subtitle F: Deduction for Renovating Historic Homes
Title XII: Provisions Relating to Pensions
Subtitle A: Expanding Coverage
Subtitle B: Enhancing Fairness for Women
Subtitle C: Increasing Portability for Participants
Subtitle D: Strengthening Pension Security and Enforcement
Subtitle E: Reducing Regulatory Burdens
Subtitle F: Plan Amendments
Title XIII: Miscellaneous Provisions
Subtitle A: Provisions Primarily Affecting Individuals
Subtitle B: Provisions Primarily Affecting Businesses
Subtitle C: Provisions Relating to Excise Taxes
Subtitle D: Other Provisions
Subtitle E: Tax Court Provisions
Title XIV: Extensions of Expiring Provisions
Title XV: Revenue Offsets
Title XVI: Compliance With Budget Act

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d106:HR02488:@@@D&summ2=m&


TAXPAYER RELIEF ACT OF 1997

                        TITLE I--CHILD TAX CREDIT

Sec. 101. Child tax credit.

                     TITLE II--EDUCATION INCENTIVES

         Subtitle A--Tax Benefits Relating to Education Expenses

Sec. 201. Hope and lifetime learning credits.
Sec. 202. Deduction for interest on education loans.
Sec. 203. Penalty-free withdrawals from individual retirement plans for 
           higher education expenses.

     Subtitle B--Expanded Education Investment Savings Opportunities

                   Part I--Qualified Tuition Programs

Sec. 211. Modifications of qualified State tuition programs.

            Part II--Education Individual Retirement Accounts

Sec. 213. Education individual retirement accounts.

                 Subtitle C--Other Education Initiatives

Sec. 221. Extension of exclusion for employer-provided educational 
           assistance.

<[Page 111 STAT. 789>]

Sec. 222. Repeal of limitation on qualified 501(c)(3) bonds other than 
           hospital bonds.
Sec. 223. Increase in arbitrage rebate exception for governmental bonds 
           used to finance education facilities.
Sec. 224. Contributions of computer technology and equipment for 
           elementary or secondary school purposes.
Sec. 225. Treatment of cancellation of certain student loans.
Sec. 226. Incentives for education zones.

              TITLE III--SAVINGS AND INVESTMENT INCENTIVES

                     Subtitle A--Retirement Savings

Sec. 301. Restoration of IRA deduction for certain taxpayers.
Sec. 302. Establishment of nondeductible tax-free individual retirement 
           accounts.
Sec. 303. Distributions from certain plans may be used without penalty 
           to purchase first homes.
Sec. 304. Certain bullion not treated as collectibles.

                        Subtitle B--Capital Gains

Sec. 311. 20 percent maximum capital gains rate for individuals.
Sec. 312. Exemption from tax for gain on sale of principal residence.
Sec. 313. Rollover of gain from sale of qualified stock.
Sec. 314. Amount of net capital gain taken into account in computing 
           alternative tax on capital gains for corporations not to 
           exceed taxable income of the corporation.

                TITLE IV--ALTERNATIVE MINIMUM TAX REFORM

Sec. 401. Exemption from alternative minimum tax for small corporations.
Sec. 402. Repeal of separate depreciation lives for minimum tax 
           purposes.
Sec. 403. Minimum tax not to apply to farmers' installment sales.

      TITLE V--ESTATE, GIFT, AND GENERATION-SKIPPING TAX PROVISIONS

               Subtitle A--Estate and Gift Tax Provisions

Sec. 501. Cost-of-living adjustments relating to estate and gift tax 
           provisions.
Sec. 502. Family-owned business exclusion.
Sec. 503. Modifications to rate of interest on portion of estate tax 
           extended under section 6166.
Sec. 504. Extension of treatment of certain rents under section 2032A to 
           lineal descendants.
Sec. 505. Clarification of judicial review of eligibility for extension 
           of time for payment of estate tax.
Sec. 506. Gifts may not be revalued for estate tax purposes after 
           expiration of statute of limitations.
Sec. 507. Repeal of throwback rules applicable to certain domestic 
           trusts.
Sec. 508. Treatment of land subject to a qualified conservation 
           easement.

              Subtitle B--Generation-Skipping Tax Provision

Sec. 511. Expansion of exception from generation-skipping transfer tax 
           for transfers to individuals with deceased parents.

                          TITLE VI--EXTENSIONS

Sec. 601. Research tax credit.
Sec. 602. Contributions of stock to private foundations.
Sec. 603. Work opportunity tax credit.
Sec. 604. Orphan drug tax credit.

  TITLE VII--INCENTIVES FOR REVITALIZATION OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA

Sec. 701. Tax incentives for revitalization of the District of Columbia.

                 TITLE VIII--WELFARE-TO-WORK INCENTIVES

Sec. 801. Incentives for employing long-term family assistance 
           recipients.

                   TITLE IX--MISCELLANEOUS PROVISIONS

             Subtitle A--Provisions Relating to Excise Taxes

Sec. 901. General revenue portion of highway motor fuels taxes deposited 
           into Highway Trust Fund.
Sec. 902. Repeal of tax on diesel fuel used in recreational boats.

<[Page 111 STAT. 790>]

Sec. 903. Continued application of tax on imported recycled Halon-1211.
Sec. 904. Uniform rate of tax on vaccines.
Sec. 905. Operators of multiple gasoline retail outlets treated as 
           wholesale distributor for refund purposes.
Sec. 906. Exemption of electric and other clean-fuel motor vehicles from 
           luxury automobile classification.
Sec. 907. Rate of tax on certain special fuels determined on basis of 
           BTU equivalency with gasoline.
Sec. 908. Modification of tax treatment of hard cider.
Sec. 909. Study of feasibility of moving collection point for distilled 
           spirits excise tax.
Sec. 910. Clarification of authority to use semi-generic designations on 
           wine labels.

               Subtitle B--Revisions Relating to Disasters

Sec. 911. Authority to postpone certain tax-related deadlines by reason 
           of presidentially declared disaster.
Sec. 912. Use of certain appraisals to establish amount of disaster 
           loss.
Sec. 913. Treatment of livestock sold on account of weather-related 
           conditions.
Sec. 914. Mortgage financing for residences located in disaster areas.
Sec. 915. Abatement of interest on underpayments by taxpayers in 
           presidentially declared disaster areas.

           Subtitle C--Provisions Relating to Employment Taxes

Sec. 921. Clarification of standard to be used in determining employment 
           tax status of securities brokers.
Sec. 922. Clarification of exemption from self-employment tax for 
           certain termination payments received by former insurance 
           salesmen.

           Subtitle D--Provisions Relating to Small Businesses

Sec. 931. Waiver of penalty through June 30, 1998, on small businesses 
           failing to make electronic fund transfers of taxes.
Sec. 932. Clarification of treatment of home office use for 
           administrative and management activities.
Sec. 933. Averaging of farm income over 3 years.
Sec. 934. Increase in deduction for health insurance costs of self-
           employed individuals.
Sec. 935. Moratorium on certain regulations.

                         Subtitle E--Brownfields

Sec. 941. Expensing of environmental remediation costs.

Subtitle F--Empowerment Zones, Enterprise Communities, Brownfields, and 
              Community Development Financial Institutions

                 Chapter 1--Additional Empowerment Zones

Sec. 951. Additional empowerment zones.

                    Chapter 2--New Empowerment Zones

Sec. 952. Designation of new empowerment zones.
Sec. 953. Volume cap not to apply to enterprise zone facility bonds with 
           respect to new empowerment zones.
Sec. 954. Modification to eligibility criteria for designation of future 
           enterprise zones in Alaska or Hawaii.

  Chapter 3--Treatment Of Empowerment Zones and Enterprise Communities

Sec. 955. Modifications to enterprise zone facility bond rules for all 
           empowerment zones and enterprise communities.
Sec. 956. Modifications to enterprise zone business definition for all 
           empowerment zones and enterprise communities.

                      Subtitle G--Other Provisions

Sec. 961. Use of estimates of shrinkage for inventory accounting.
Sec. 962. Assignment of workmen's compensation liability eligible for 
           exclusion relating to personal injury liability assignments.
Sec. 963. Tax-exempt status for certain State worker's compensation act 
           companies.
Sec. 964. Election for 1987 partnerships to continue exception from 
           treatment of publicly traded partnerships as corporations.
Sec. 965. Exclusion from unrelated business taxable income for certain 
           sponsorship payments.
Sec. 966. Associations of holders of timeshare interests to be taxed 
           like other homeowners associations.

<[Page 111 STAT. 791>]

Sec. 967. Additional advance refunding of certain Virgin Island bonds.
Sec. 968. Nonrecognition of gain on sale of stock to certain farmers' 
           cooperatives.
Sec. 969. Increased deductibility of business meal expenses for 
           individuals subject to Federal hours of service.
Sec. 970. Clarification of de minimis fringe benefit rules to no-charge 
           employee meals.
Sec. 971. Exemption of the incremental cost of a clean fuel vehicle from 
           the limits on depreciation for vehicles.
Sec. 972. Temporary suspension of taxable income limit on percentage 
           depletion for marginal production.
Sec. 973. Increase in standard mileage rate expense deduction for 
           charitable use of passenger automobile.
Sec. 974. Clarification of treatment of certain receivables purchased by 
           cooperative hospital service organizations.
Sec. 975. Deduction in computing adjusted gross income for expenses in 
           connection with service performed by certain officials.
Sec. 976. Combined employment tax reporting demonstration project.
Sec. 977. Elective carryback of existing carryovers of National Railroad 
           Passenger Corporation.

Subtitle H--Extension of Duty-Free Treatment Under Generalized System of 
                               Preferences

Sec. 981. Generalized System of Preferences.

                            TITLE X--REVENUES

                     Subtitle A--Financial Products

Sec. 1001. Constructive sales treatment for appreciated financial 
           positions.
Sec. 1002. Limitation on exception for investment companies under 
           section 351.
Sec. 1003. Gains and losses from certain terminations with respect to 
           property.
Sec. 1004. Determination of original issue discount where pooled debt 
           obligations subject to acceleration.
Sec. 1005. Denial of interest deductions on certain debt instruments.

         Subtitle B--Corporate Organizations and Reorganizations

Sec. 1011. Tax treatment of certain extraordinary dividends.
Sec. 1012. Application of section 355 to distributions in connection 
           with acquisitions and to intragroup transactions.
Sec. 1013. Tax treatment of redemptions involving related corporations.
Sec. 1014. Certain preferred stock treated as boot.
Sec. 1015. Modification of holding period applicable to dividends 
           received deduction.

                  Subtitle C--Administrative Provisions

Sec. 1021. Reporting of certain payments made to attorneys.
Sec. 1022. Decrease of threshold for reporting payments to corporations 
           performing services for Federal agencies.
Sec. 1023. Disclosure of return information for administration of 
           certain veterans programs.
Sec. 1024. Continuous levy on certain payments.
Sec. 1025. Modification of levy exemption.
Sec. 1026. Confidentiality and disclosure of returns and return 
           information.
Sec. 1027. Returns of beneficiaries of estates and trusts required to 
           file returns consistent with estate or trust return or to 
           notify Secretary of inconsistency.
Sec. 1028. Registration and other provisions relating to confidential 
           corporate tax shelters.

            Subtitle D--Excise and Employment Tax Provisions

Sec. 1031. Extension and modification of taxes funding Airport and 
           Airway Trust Fund; increased deposits into such Fund.
Sec. 1032. Kerosene taxed as diesel fuel.
Sec. 1033. Restoration of Leaking Underground Storage Tank Trust Fund 
           taxes.
Sec. 1034. Application of communications tax to prepaid telephone cards.
Sec. 1035. Extension of temporary unemployment tax.

         Subtitle E--Provisions Relating to Tax-Exempt Entities

Sec. 1041. Expansion of look-thru rule for interest, annuities, 
           royalties, and rents derived by subsidiaries of tax-exempt 
           organizations.
Sec. 1042. Termination of certain exceptions from rules relating to 
           exempt organizations which provide commercial-type insurance.

<[Page 111 STAT. 792>]

                     Subtitle F--Foreign Provisions

Sec. 1051. Definition of foreign personal holding company income.
Sec. 1052. Personal property used predominantly in the United States 
           treated as not property of a like kind with respect to 
           property used predominantly outside the United States.
Sec. 1053. Holding period requirement for certain foreign taxes.
Sec. 1054. Denial of treaty benefits for certain payments through hybrid 
           entities.
Sec. 1055. Interest on underpayments not reduced by foreign tax credit 
           carrybacks.
Sec. 1056. Clarification of period of limitations on claim for credit or 
           refund attributable to foreign tax credit carryforward.
Sec. 1057. Repeal of exception to alternative minimum foreign tax credit 
           limit.

                   Subtitle G--Partnership Provisions

Sec. 1061. Allocation of basis among properties distributed by 
           partnership.
Sec. 1062. Repeal of requirement that inventory be substantially 
           appreciated with respect to sale or exchange of partnership 
           interest.
Sec. 1063. Extension of time for taxing precontribution gain.

                     Subtitle H--Pension Provisions

Sec. 1071. Pension accrued benefit distributable without consent 
           increased to $5,000.
Sec. 1072. Election to receive taxable cash compensation in lieu of 
           nontaxable parking benefits.
Sec. 1073. Repeal of excess distribution and excess retirement 
           accumulation tax.
Sec. 1074. Increase in tax on prohibited transactions.
Sec. 1075. Basis recovery rules for annuities over more than one life.

                  Subtitle I--Other Revenue Provisions

Sec. 1081. Termination of suspense accounts for family corporations 
           required to use accrual method of accounting.
Sec. 1082. Modification of taxable years to which net operating losses 
           may be carried.
Sec. 1083. Modifications to taxable years to which unused credits may be 
           carried.
Sec. 1084. Expansion of denial of deduction for certain amounts paid in 
           connection with insurance.
Sec. 1085. Improved enforcement of the application of the earned income 
           credit.
Sec. 1086. Limitation on property for which income forecast method may 
           be used.
Sec. 1087. Expansion of requirement that involuntarily converted 
           property be replaced with property acquired from an unrelated 
           person.
Sec. 1088. Treatment of exception from installment sales rules for sales 
           of property by a manufacturer to a dealer.
Sec. 1089. Limitations on charitable remainder trust eligibility for 
           certain trusts.
Sec. 1090. Expanded SSA records for tax enforcement.
Sec. 1091. Modification of estimated tax safe harbors.

      TITLE XI--SIMPLIFICATION AND OTHER FOREIGN-RELATED PROVISIONS

                     Subtitle A--General Provisions

Sec. 1101. Certain individuals exempt from foreign tax credit 
           limitation.
Sec. 1102. Exchange rate used in translating foreign taxes.
Sec. 1103. Election to use simplified section 904 limitation for 
           alternative minimum tax.
Sec. 1104. Treatment of personal transactions by individuals under 
           foreign currency rules.
Sec. 1105. Foreign tax credit treatment of dividends from noncontrolled 
           section 902 corporations.

        Subtitle B--Treatment of Controlled Foreign Corporations

Sec. 1111. Gain on certain stock sales by controlled foreign 
           corporations treated as dividends.
Sec. 1112. Miscellaneous modifications to subpart F.
Sec. 1113. Indirect foreign tax credit allowed for certain lower tier 
           companies.

      Subtitle C--Treatment of Passive Foreign Investment Companies

Sec. 1121. United States shareholders of controlled foreign corporations 
           not subject to PFIC inclusion.
Sec. 1122. Election of mark to market for marketable stock in passive 
           foreign investment company.
Sec. 1123. Valuation of assets for passive foreign investment company 
           determination.

<[Page 111 STAT. 793>]

Sec. 1124. Effective date.

    Subtitle D--Repeal of Excise Tax on Transfers to Foreign Entities

Sec. 1131. Repeal of excise tax on transfers to foreign entities; 
           recognition of gain on certain transfers to foreign trusts 
           and estates.

                    Subtitle E--Information Reporting

Sec. 1141. Clarification of application of return requirement to foreign 
           partnerships.
Sec. 1142. Controlled foreign partnerships subject to information 
           reporting comparable to information reporting for controlled 
           foreign corporations.
Sec. 1143. Modifications relating to returns required to be filed by 
           reason of changes in ownership interests in foreign 
           partnership.
Sec. 1144. Transfers of property to foreign partnerships subject to 
           information reporting comparable to information reporting for 
           such transfers to foreign corporations.
Sec. 1145. Extension of statute of limitations for foreign transfers.
Sec. 1146. Increase in filing thresholds for returns as to organization 
           of foreign corporations and acquisitions of stock in such 
           corporations.

 Subtitle F--Determination of Foreign or Domestic Status of Partnerships

Sec. 1151. Determination of foreign or domestic status of partnerships.

               Subtitle G--Other Simplification Provisions

Sec. 1161. Transition rule for certain trusts.
Sec. 1162. Repeal of stock and securities safe harbor requirement that 
           principal office be outside the United States.
Sec. 1163. Miscellaneous clarifications.

                      Subtitle H--Other Provisions

Sec. 1171. Treatment of computer software as FSC export property.
Sec. 1172. Adjustment of dollar limitation on section 911 exclusion.
Sec. 1173. United States property not to include certain assets acquired 
           by dealers in ordinary course of trade or business.
Sec. 1174. Treatment of nonresident aliens engaged in international 
           transportation services.
Sec. 1175. Exemption for active financing income.

    TITLE XII--SIMPLIFICATION PROVISIONS RELATING TO INDIVIDUALS AND 
                               BUSINESSES

             Subtitle A--Provisions Relating to Individuals

Sec. 1201. Basic standard deduction and minimum tax exemption amount for 
           certain dependents.
Sec. 1202. Increase in amount of tax exempt from estimated tax 
           requirements.
Sec. 1203. Treatment of certain reimbursed expenses of rural mail 
           carriers.
Sec. 1204. Treatment of traveling expenses of certain Federal employees 
           engaged in criminal investigations.
Sec. 1205. Payment of tax by commercially acceptable means.

         Subtitle B--Provisions Relating to Businesses Generally

Sec. 1211. Modifications to look-back method for long-term contracts.
Sec. 1212. Minimum tax treatment of certain property and casualty 
           insurance companies.
Sec. 1213. Qualified lessee construction allowances for short-term 
           leases.

   Subtitle C--Simplification Relating to Electing Large Partnerships

                       Part I--General Provisions

Sec. 1221. Simplified flow-through for electing large partnerships.
Sec. 1222. Simplified audit procedures for electing large partnerships.
Sec. 1223. Due date for furnishing information to partners of electing 
           large partnerships.
Sec. 1224. Returns required on magnetic media.
Sec. 1225. Treatment of partnership items of individual retirement 
           accounts.
Sec. 1226. Effective date.

      Part II--Provisions Related to TEFRA Partnership Proceedings

Sec. 1231. Treatment of partnership items in deficiency proceedings.
Sec. 1232. Partnership return to be determinative of audit procedures to 
           be followed.

<[Page 111 STAT. 794>]

Sec. 1233. Provisions relating to statute of limitations.
Sec. 1234. Expansion of small partnership exception.
Sec. 1235. Exclusion of partial settlements from 1-year limitation on 
           assessment.
Sec. 1236. Extension of time for filing a request for administrative 
           adjustment.
Sec. 1237. Availability of innocent spouse relief in context of 
           partnership proceedings.
Sec. 1238. Determination of penalties at partnership level.
Sec. 1239. Provisions relating to court jurisdiction, etc.
Sec. 1240. Treatment of premature petitions filed by notice partners or 
           5-percent groups.
Sec. 1241. Bonds in case of appeals from certain proceeding.
Sec. 1242. Suspension of interest where delay in computational 
           adjustment resulting from certain settlements.
Sec. 1243. Special rules for administrative adjustment requests with 
           respect to bad debts or worthless securities.

Part III--Provision Relating to Closing of Partnership Taxable Year With 
                    Respect to Deceased Partner, Etc.

Sec. 1246. Closing of partnership taxable year with respect to deceased 
           partner, etc.

    Subtitle D--Provisions Relating to Real Estate Investment Trusts

Sec. 1251. Clarification of limitation on maximum number of 
           shareholders.
Sec. 1252. De minimis rule for tenant services income.
Sec. 1253. Attribution rules applicable to stock ownership.
Sec. 1254. Credit for tax paid by REIT on retained capital gains.
Sec. 1255. Repeal of 30-percent gross income requirement.
Sec. 1256. Modification of earnings and profits rules for determining 
           whether REIT has earnings and profits from non-REIT year.
Sec. 1257. Treatment of foreclosure property.
Sec. 1258. Payments under hedging instruments.
Sec. 1259. Excess noncash income.
Sec. 1260. Prohibited transaction safe harbor.
Sec. 1261. Shared appreciation mortgages.
Sec. 1262. Wholly owned subsidiaries.
Sec. 1263. Effective date.

    Subtitle E--Provisions Relating to Regulated Investment Companies

Sec. 1271. Repeal of 30-percent gross income limitation.

                    Subtitle F--Taxpayer Protections

Sec. 1281. Reasonable cause exception for certain penalties.
Sec. 1282. Clarification of period for filing claims for refunds.
Sec. 1283. Repeal of authority to disclose whether prospective juror has 
           been audited.
Sec. 1284. Clarification of statute of limitations.
Sec. 1285. Awarding of administrative costs.

 TITLE XIII--SIMPLIFICATION PROVISIONS RELATING TO ESTATE AND GIFT TAXES

Sec. 1301. Gifts to charities exempt from gift tax filing requirements.
Sec. 1302. Clarification of waiver of certain rights of recovery.
Sec. 1303. Transitional rule under section 2056A.
Sec. 1304. Treatment for estate tax purposes of short-term obligations 
           held by nonresident aliens.
Sec. 1305. Certain revocable trusts treated as part of estate.
Sec. 1306. Distributions during first 65 days of taxable year of estate.
Sec. 1307. Separate share rules available to estates.
Sec. 1308. Executor of estate and beneficiaries treated as related 
           persons for disallowance of losses, etc.
Sec. 1309. Treatment of funeral trusts.
Sec. 1310. Adjustments for gifts within 3 years of decedent's death.
Sec. 1311. Clarification of treatment of survivor annuities under 
           qualified terminable interest rules.
Sec. 1312. Treatment under qualified domestic trust rules of forms of 
           ownership which are not trusts.
Sec. 1313. Opportunity to correct certain failures under section 2032A.
Sec. 1314. Authority to waive requirement of United States trustee for 
           qualified domestic trusts.

<[Page 111 STAT. 795>]

   TITLE XIV--SIMPLIFICATION PROVISIONS RELATING TO EXCISE TAXES, TAX-
                     EXEMPT BONDS, AND OTHER MATTERS

                  Subtitle A--Excise Tax Simplification

          Part I--Excise Taxes on Heavy Trucks and Luxury Cars

Sec. 1401. Increase in de minimis limit for after-market alterations for 
           heavy trucks and luxury cars.
Sec. 1402. Credit for tire tax in lieu of exclusion of value of tires in 
           computing price.

    Part II--Provisions Related to Distilled Spirits, Wines, and Beer

Sec. 1411. Credit or refund for imported bottled distilled spirits 
           returned to distilled spirits plant.
Sec. 1412. Authority to cancel or credit export bonds without submission 
           of records.
Sec. 1413. Repeal of required maintenance of records on premises of 
           distilled spirits plant.
Sec. 1414. Fermented material from any brewery may be received at a 
           distilled spirits plant.
Sec. 1415. Repeal of requirement for wholesale dealers in liquors to 
           post sign.
Sec. 1416. Refund of tax to wine returned to bond not limited to 
           unmerchantable wine.
Sec. 1417. Use of additional ameliorating material in certain wines.
Sec. 1418. Domestically produced beer may be withdrawn free of tax for 
           use of foreign embassies, legations, etc.
Sec. 1419. Beer may be withdrawn free of tax for destruction.
Sec. 1420. Authority to allow drawback on exported beer without 
           submission of records.
Sec. 1421. Transfer to brewery of beer imported in bulk without payment 
           of tax.
Sec. 1422. Transfer to bonded wine cellars of wine imported in bulk 
           without payment of tax.

                  Part III--Other Excise Tax Provisions

Sec. 1431. Authority to grant exemptions from registration requirements.
Sec. 1432. Repeal of expired provisions.
Sec. 1433. Simplification of imposition of excise tax on arrows.
Sec. 1434. Modifications to retail tax on heavy trucks.
Sec. 1435. Skydiving flights exempt from tax on transportation of 
           persons by air.
Sec. 1436. Allowance or credit of refund for tax-paid aviation fuel 
           purchased by registered producer of aviation fuel.

                 Subtitle B--Tax-Exempt Bond Provisions

Sec. 1441. Repeal of $100,000 limitation on unspent proceeds under 1-
           year exception from rebate.
Sec. 1442. Exception from rebate for earnings on bona fide debt service 
           fund under construction bond rules.
Sec. 1443. Repeal of debt service-based limitation on investment in 
           certain nonpurpose investments.
Sec. 1444. Repeal of expired provisions.
Sec. 1445. Effective date.

                    Subtitle C--Tax Court Procedures

Sec. 1451. Overpayment determinations of Tax Court.
Sec. 1452. Redetermination of interest pursuant to motion.
Sec. 1453. Application of net worth requirement for awards of litigation 
           costs.
Sec. 1454. Proceedings for determination of employment status.

                      Subtitle D--Other Provisions

Sec. 1461. Extension of due date of first quarter estimated tax payment 
           by private foundations.
Sec. 1462. Clarification of authority to withhold Puerto Rico income 
           taxes from salaries of Federal employees.
Sec. 1463. Certain notices disregarded under provision increasing 
           interest rate on large corporate underpayments.

                TITLE XV--PENSIONS AND EMPLOYEE BENEFITS

                       Subtitle A--Simplification

Sec. 1501. Matching contributions of self-employed individuals not 
           treated as elective employer contributions.

<[Page 111 STAT. 796>]

Sec. 1502. Modification of prohibition of assignment or alienation.
Sec. 1503. Elimination of paperwork burdens on plans.
Sec. 1504. Modification of 403(b) exclusion allowance to conform to 415 
           modifications.
Sec. 1505. Extension of moratorium on application of certain 
           nondiscrimination rules to State and local governments.
Sec. 1506. Clarification of certain rules relating to employee stock 
           ownership plans of S corporations.
Sec. 1507. Modification of 10-percent tax for nondeductible 
           contributions.
Sec. 1508. Modification of funding requirements for certain plans.
Sec. 1509. Clarification of disqualification rules relating to 
           acceptance of rollover contributions.
Sec. 1510. New technologies in retirement plans.

 Subtitle B--Other Provisions Relating to Pensions and Employee Benefits

Sec. 1521. Increase in current liability funding limit.
Sec. 1522. Special rules for church plans.
Sec. 1523. Repeal of application of unrelated business income tax to 
           ESOPs.
Sec. 1524. Diversification of section 401(k) plan investments.
Sec. 1525. Section 401(k) plans for certain irrigation and drainage 
           entities.
Sec. 1526. Portability of permissive service credit under governmental 
           pension plans.
Sec. 1527. Removal of dollar limitation on benefit payments from a 
           defined benefit plan maintained for certain police and fire 
           employees.
Sec. 1528. Survivor benefits for public safety officers killed in the 
           line of duty.
Sec. 1529. Treatment of certain disability benefits received by former 
           police officers or firefighters.
Sec. 1530. Gratuitous transfers for the benefit of employees.

         Subtitle C--Provisions Relating to Certain Health Acts

Sec. 1531. Amendments to the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to implement 
           the Newborns' and Mothers' Health Protection Act of 1996 and 
           the Mental Health Parity Act of 1996.
Sec. 1532. Special rules relating to church plans.

           Subtitle D--Provisions Relating to Plan Amendments

Sec. 1541. Provisions relating to plan amendments.

TITLE XVI--TECHNICAL AMENDMENTS RELATED TO SMALL BUSINESS JOB PROTECTION 
                    ACT OF 1996 AND OTHER LEGISLATION

Sec. 1600. Coordination with other titles.
Sec. 1601. Amendments related to Small Business Job Protection Act of 
           1996.
Sec. 1602. Amendments related to Health Insurance Portability and 
           Accountability Act of 1996.
Sec. 1603. Amendments related to Taxpayer Bill of Rights 2.
Sec. 1604. Miscellaneous provisions.

TITLE XVII--IDENTIFICATION OF LIMITED TAX BENEFITS SUBJECT TO LINE ITEM 
                                  VETO

Sec. 1701. Identification of limited tax benefits subject to line item 
           veto.

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ34/html/PLAW-105publ34.htm

[socialist_n_TN]

132. If reconciliation could be used to PASS the tax cuts

It could have been used to repeal them.

[eomer]

135. Yes, it certainly could have been used to repeal tax cuts or to even further tax top brackets.

It also could have been used to pass the economic stimulus, which then could have been as big as it needed to be and focused on federal spending to stimulate demand instead of tax cuts that accomplished little. In other words, Republicans would have had no leverage with which to screw it up on purpose.

[Igel]

167. You don't understand reconciliation.

Or rules of order.

Yes, reconciliation could be used to pass a lot of things, as long as they abide by the Byrd rules.

Then again, 17 year olds can get married without their parents permission in all states in the Union.

No, that last sentence is neither erroneous nor irrelevant. It's true. It's just that it's true under certain conditions, and if you don't include those conditions it becomes very misleading. So with "reconciliation could be used to pass a long of things."

Part of the requirement is that the budget resolution include a stipulation that reconciliation applies to a given matter. The health care bill could be included because those elements least related to the budget were stripped out *and* because that matter was approved for reconciliation.

It *sounds* like the rights of the minority to speak were violated because the HCRA was filibuster proof--straight up and down, 50% + 1 carries the day voting. That, after all, is what a cloture vote is there to prevent--having a bare majority trump the rights of the minority to speak. But the resolution that approved the health care topic for a reconciliation vote *was* subject to a cloture vote, it was subject to having the minority object. It merely shifted *when* the minority would have an opportunity to speak to the motion, and the minority decided not to. Perhaps because they naively thought that the bill would be limited to certain topics and the majority included other stuff. Such acts of good will are seldom left unpunished in DC, which is why they're rare. (Then we complain that they're abundant. Basic psych: You get more of the behavior that you reward and less of the behavior that you punish.)

So point to the budget resolution for this year that allows the debt ceiling, tax increases, deficit reduction, etc., etc. to be the subject of a reconciliation bill in the Senate. Good luck. There isn't one.

[eomer]

227. Wrong.

The budget resolution cannot be filibustered. It is always passed by a mere majority in both the House and the Senate. So congressional Democrats could have included anything they wanted in 2009 and 2010. The only reason that the budget resolutions didn't specify any of those topics to be covered by the reconciliation process is because Democrats chose not to.

Now, of course, Democrats no longer hold a majority in both houses so the chance to enact policies without Republican obstruction has been lost.

Here is an article excerpt saying that the budget resolution cannot be filibustered:

After receiving the President's budget request, Congress generally holds hearings to question Administration officials about their requests and then develops its own budget resolution. This work is done by the House and Senate Budget Committees, whose primary function is to draft and enforce the budget resolution. Once the committees are done, their budget resolutions go to the House and Senate floors, where they can be amended (by a majority vote). A House-Senate conference then resolves any differences, and a conference report is passed by both houses.

The budget resolution is a "concurrent" congressional resolution, not an ordinary bill, and therefore does not go to the President for his signature or veto. It also requires only a majority vote to pass, and its consideration is one of the few actions that cannot be filibustered in the Senate.

http://www.cbpp.org/cms/?fa=view&id=155

[Chisox08]

165. Filibuster and Veto are two different things.

A filibuster is a procedure used by Congress in order to stop a vote. A veto is when the President rejects a bill passed by Congress.

[Ozymanithrax]

89. A veto proof majority allows Dems to pass anything they want...

without Republican fillibusters and obstruction.

[Better Believe It]

181. What Republican filibusters? Oh .... the pretend phantom ones permitted by Reid?

[Dept of Beer]

71. More excuses is not very becoming.

[ClarkUSA]

112. How is this fact "more excuses"?

[Dept of Beer]

148. When it is not fact, silly.

[ClarkUSA]

171. You are denying that Democrats never had a solid veto-proof majority, thanks to Joe Lieberman?

The same Joe Lieberman who said he'd join Republicans in filibustering a public option?

You're full of it.

[Dept of Beer]

179. All Obama had to do was use the veto.

He didn't stand up to a bully? He could have, but didn't use the veto.


So what will be the excuse used if President Obama doesn't stand firm in opposition to the latest GOP threats?


If it is only about threats then I guess President Obama has already thrown in the towel?

[ClarkUSA]

180. Veto HCR? WTF would he do that?

[Dept of Beer]

185. Cause he said so, silly.

Any plan I sign must include an insurance exchange: a one-stop shopping marketplace where you can compare the benefits, cost and track records of a variety of plans - including a public option to increase competition and keep insurance companies honest - and choose what's best for your family.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/07/obama-demands-the-bill-i-sign-must-include-public-option.php


Yeah, I know. They were just promises.

[ClarkUSA]

218. So what? Since when do you believe a word he says? When it's convenient for dissing purposes?

[Dept of Beer]

234. I believe that people should be held to their word...

do you?

[ClarkUSA]

238. Not when circumstances out of their control force them to seriously re-evaluate.

[Dept of Beer]

245. Again it comes full circle to the Veto.

And you keep on talking in circles.

[Marr]

92. Edit

Nevermind.

[eomer]

93. You meant filibuster-proof? The President is a Democrat (I know it can be hard to remember lately).

And, besides, Democrats did not need a filibuster-proof majority during 2009 and 2010, the time that Enrique was talking about, because they could have used the budget reconciliation process. Using a reconciliation bill they would have needed just 49 Democrats plus Sanders in the Senate. So it was only Democrats whose votes were needed to pass the measures we desperately needed but were told (disingenuously) that couldn't be done because of the filibuster.

Democrats could have enacted just about any economic measure they wanted and Republicans could not have stopped them. Democrats chose not to. And now it is too late since Republicans control the House.

[robinlynne]

125. and who gave Lieberman his power? the Democrats. Don't forget that.

[eomer]

133. Yes, they did. They could have used the reconciliation process and not need Lieberman's vote.

Then they would have needed to convince only Democrats (and Sanders) in order to get 50 votes in the Senate. That was true in 2009 and 2010. Now it is too late, of course, with a Republican majority in the House.

The claim that they couldn't do anything because of the filibuster is a complete smoke screen. They didn't do those things because they chose not to. In my opinion they chose not to because they had made deals with their corporate sponsors.

[ClarkUSA]

140. Prove it.

[eomer]

228. Here are examples of things that have been done through reconciliation:

Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 raised taxes:

The Tax Equity and Fiscal Responsibility Act of 1982 (Pub.L. 97-248),<1> also known as TEFRA, was a United States federal law that rescinded some of the effects of the Kemp-Roth Act passed the year before. As a result of ongoing recession, a short-term fall in tax revenue generated concern over the budget deficit. TEFRA was created in order to reduce the budget gap by generating revenue through closure of tax loopholes and introduction of tougher enforcement of tax rules, as opposed to changing marginal income tax rates. TEFRA was introduced November 13, 1981 and was sponsored by Representative Pete Stark of California. After much deliberation the final version was signed by President Ronald Reagan on September 3, 1982.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tax_Equity_and_Fiscal_Responsibility_Act_of_1982

Balanced Budget Act of 1995 increased the debt ceiling:

Subtitle M: Increase in Public Debt Limit - Increases the public debt limit to $5.5 trillion.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d104:HR02491:@@@D&summ2=m&

Balanced Budget Act of 1995 created a new federal program (MedicarePlus):

Title VIII: Medicare - Medicare Preservation Act of 1995 - Subtitle A: MedicarePlus Program - Amends SSA titles XI and XVIII (Medicare) and the Internal Revenue Code (IRC), restructuring the current Medicare program, creating a new MedicarePlus program within it, while also providing for corresponding tax treatments involving MedicarePlus medical savings accounts (MSAs) and other MedicarePlus-related matters.
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d104:HR02491:@@@D&summ2=m&

Balanced Budget Act of 1997 created a new federal program (State Children's Health Insurance Program - SCHIP):

Sec. 4901. Establishment of program.

``TITLE XXI--STATE CHILDREN'S HEALTH INSURANCE PROGRAM

``Sec. 2101. Purpose; State child health plans.
``Sec. 2102. General contents of State child health plan;
eligibility; outreach.
``Sec. 2103. Coverage requirements for children's health
insurance.
``Sec. 2104. Allotments.
``Sec. 2105. Payments to States.
``Sec. 2106. Process for submission, approval, and amendment of
State child health plans.
``Sec. 2107. Strategic objectives and performance goals; plan
administration.
``Sec. 2108. Annual reports; evaluations.
``Sec. 2109. Miscellaneous provisions.
``Sec. 2110. Definitions.
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-105publ33/html/PLAW-105publ33.htm

So, again, is there something specific that you say can't be done?

[robinlynne]

175. I'm with you on that one.

[SusanaMontana41]

183. That matches what I'm seeing. n/t

[roguevalley]

186. I always expect a tongue to slither out of his mouth, fucker.

[newspeak]

239. yeah, and real economists like stiglitz, krugman

at the very beginning said that Obama needed to hit the road running with some massive work programs-get the money flowing and people on their feet, then they would see the results. But instead, Obama appointed Summers and Geithner, who could care less about the majority of the american people as long as Wall Street can still play. Too bad Obama admires Reagan over FDR-because every one knows that reagan was a damn financial god, yep, nothing like increasing the deficit by 189%.

Just another supply side predator capitalist.

[tekisui]

2. They don't seem to care about creating jobs. It will hurt them in the end.

[SDuderstadt]

5. What bullshit...

a Democratic administration can't create jobs all on its own, dude.

[Edweird]

10. WPA. CCC. TVA.

[BeFree]

15. Heh

Maybe that will do it?

The stimulus of 2009 worked well, also. Just died an early death.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Dude...

Read what I wrote. "A Democratic administration can't create jobs on its own". All this things you mention require the involvement of Congress.

Duh.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

38. Dude...

Needing the cooperation of Congress is a reality, not an excuse. Learn how our system works. It'll open up your eyes.

[newspeak]

240. yeah, and we had the house and senate

how soon some of us forget what Little Boots did to get the "screw you big pharma" bill passed. There were still some repugs that had a conscience back then, knew it was going to increase the deficit, screw seniors and give even more profit to pharma. They stopped the vote when they knew some of the repugs were against it, then they started threatening and coercing those to change the vote. See, we know how congress works and who it works for.

[WinkyDink]

41. Obama has never ONCE used the Bully Pulpit to push a People Program.

[tavalon]

164. But he sure has used it to kick the shit out of the enemy

The enemy is apparently, us, his liberal constituents. Were it not for that, I wouldn't know whether he knew he had a bully pulpit.

[mistertrickster]

42. And yet Bush managed to invade Iraq with Congressional backing . . . go figure. nt

[mistertrickster]

19. I think Reagan made WPA-style programs illegal. Can't find a link . . .

Anybody else remember that?

On edit--not that Obama would create WPA jobs even if he could. He seems to have a pretty good salary.

[TheKentuckian]

27. Executive Order that Obama refuses to reverse and as such endorses.

[xphile]

55. Which shows just how serious he is about the jobs situation. Of course he hasn't really

mentioned jobs vis a vis those who need work has he? He keeps spewing that right winged bullshit about "job creators" which is complete and utter bullshit.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jwirr]

69. All created with the help of the congress. FDR did not just create

them by himself. Without a congress that cares we are going to set her for a long time just waiting for everything to fix itself.

[tavalon]

162. Excellent answers all!

We needed Roosevelt, we got Reagan.

[hfojvt]

35. and this administration is not really doing that bad on the jobs front

First, stopped the free fall of losing 500,000+ jobs per month. Second, over 900,000 jobs created in 2010, and third, nine straight months of positive job growth.

Oh, it's bad this month, because the economy should be creating 200,000 jobs. Well, two months ago the economy did create 200,000+ jobs, and were the stories positive?

This headline includes a big "but" http://articles.nydailynews.com/2011-05-06/news/29534187_1_unemployment-rate-positive-economic-signs-jobs-report

"Jobs report for April 2011: 244,000 jobs created but unemployment rate rises to 9%"

This quote was buried in this article, but it seems to me that many TV stories made sure to mention something like this "this is positive, but still not enough, and we have such a long, long way to go" type theme.

"We have to keep this in perspective. We consider this a lot because we've been in a sluggish, slow-growth recovery for almost two years," said Patrick O'Keefe, director of economic research for account firm J.H. Cohn. "While this is positive news, by historic standards it's still a very tepid recovery."

http://money.cnn.com/2011/05/06/news/economy/april_jobs_report_unemployment/index.htm

Almost every story seems to need to include some negative predictions and pessimism "As a measure of how far uphill the economic climb remains, though, the unemployment rate actually nudged up to 9 percent, from 8.8 percent a month earlier."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/07/business/economy/07jobs.html

Even when things are going OK, the media is quite negative about it.

Obama, however, has seemingly not used his pulpit to hit Republicans, to show that a big drag on our economy right now is coming from Republican budget cuts.

"Meanwhile, federal, state and local governments all cut jobs."

And every one of those lost government jobs means lost consumers for the retail sector.

[girl gone mad]

78. I'd hate to see what you consider bad..

[hfojvt]

115. I would consider bad, where we'd be

without the stmulus bill passed in week 14. Keep extending that red line down.

How about measuring the chart from the bottom - thr trough of employment, rather than the peak? The trough of this one goes much deeper and also much longer, not reached until week 26, when most of those others were well into recovery.

Considering the hole that Bush pushed us in, we are not doing that badly climbing out of it.

[girl gone mad]

118. Here's where the administration thought we'd be..

vs. where we are:



Their estimates were off by a full 50%. It's bad.

[Igel]

169. Perhaps.

The problem is that most of those recessions had robust employment growth after they ended *without* a stimulus. This was the largest stimulus ever, even in terms of constant dollars. And not by just a little, either.

The actual number of jobs created was pitifully small--we like to cite the upper end of the range that the CBO puts out. Ooh, 3 million jobs. It's as likely as the low-ball figure of 800k, but let's not consider that. Moreover, it crucially depends on your model. If you think we were going to lose 30 million jobs and instead we lost 1 million, you can claim 29 million jobs saved. If you think that the recovery would track as normal recoveries did, then the stimulus cost several million jobs. You pick your model, you get your results. The CBO doesn't get to pick its model. Many of the claims also came from those who apparently are completely disinterested in the results for political reasons--Geithner and the WH. (Conflicts of interest only hold for the other side, I guess.)

Keep in mind, growth and recovery is weakest after a financial crisis. On the other hand, TARP was to handle that and, by most accounts, actually seems to have kept the crisis from becoming an implosion. It could have been done better, but TARP was funnelled into doing the kinds of job-creation things that it wasn't intended for. In some ways, it merely spread out the pain and allowed it to percolate down.

Really, Fannie and Freddie should have been reformed back in 2002 or 2003.

[Divernan]

136. "Flat jobs data signal weakest recovery in decades" (since 1948).

http://beta.news.yahoo.com/flat-jobs-data-signal-weakest-recovery-decades-211320802.html

Analysis: Flat jobs data signal weakest recovery in decades
APBy PAUL WISEMAN - AP Economics Writer | AP – Fri, Jul 8, 2011


* Corey Perry of Jackson, reviews possible jobs online at a state employment center in Jackson, Miss., Thursday, July 7, 2011. Unemployment rises to 9.2 pct. in June, as employers add only 18,000 jobs. (AP Photo/Rogelio V. Solis)


WASHINGTON (AP) — The job market is defying history.

A dismal June employment report shows that employers are adding nowhere near as many jobs as they normally do this long after a recession has ended.

Unemployment has climbed for three straight months and is now at 9.2 percent. There's no precedent, in data going back to 1948, for such a high rate two years into what economists say is a recovery.

The economy added just 18,000 jobs in June. That's a fraction of the 90,000 jobs economists had expected and a sliver of the 300,000 jobs needed each month to shrink unemployment significantly.

The excruciatingly slow growth is confounding economists, spooking consumers and dismaying job seekers. Friday's report forced analysts to re-examine their assumption that the economy would strengthen in the second half of 2011.

[hfojvt]

147. are you trying to prove my point, that everybody is pushing the gloom?

+18,000 is seemingly the end of the world.

Remember the roaring 1990s? 2.8 million jobs created in 1993, 3.8 million created in 1994 and 2.15 million created in 1995, 2.79 million in 1996 and 3.36 million created in 1997.

In the midst of all that growth, there were still some bad months. March 1993 - 46,000 jobs lost. May 1995 - 9,000 jobs lost. January 1996 - 18,000 jobs lost. August 1997 - 7,000 jobs lost.

So why should one slow month, one that is still positive be the end of the world? When Governments are cutting 40,000 jobs, that does not help. With Republicans playing chicken with fiscal armageddon, it's a wonder that anybody did any hiring at all.

When they talk about "no precedent, in data going back to 1948" why don't they look and see if there is a precedent for an opposition party to threaten Government default during a recovery? Why don't they look at a precedent of oil prices rising by 30% during a recovery?

I bet both of those are unprecedented as well.

A mood of constant pessimism doesn't help either. "Be very scared, be very scared, be very scared" says the media over and over and over again, like the article you linked to. You know what a scared person is not gonna do? Not gonna take a risk in starting or expanding a business or giving a loan to do so.

I am reminded of Hoover though, who seemed to think that talking positive was the only thing he had to do. Not true, but talking positive is important. Here's how FDR opened his inaugural address in 1933 "This great Nation will endure as it has endured, will revive and will prosper. So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance. In every dark hour of our national life a leadership of frankness and vigor has met with that understanding and support of the people themselves which is essential to victory. I am convinced that you will again give that support to leadership in these critical days."

The RWNM is pushing that fear, that "nameless, unreasoning, UNJUSTIFIED terror" and unfortunately, the left wing has been helping it too. They want us to be scared, to be unhappy, to be angry, and thus to demand change, to turn in our fear to the ones who promise security, our very own Adam Sutlers http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chqi8m4CEEY

The truth is that +18,000 jobs is not the beginning of the end of the world. Yes, we might lose jobs next month, and we lost another 117,000 jobs in the 3rd quarter of 2010. And that wasn't the end of the world either.

I'd feel a lot better if we didn't have a Republican controlled House though.

[defendandprotect]

192. ... and three new trade agreements by Obama .... pitiful ... !!!

[Time for change]

153. Every other Democratic administration since FDR has somehow managed to get it done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jobs_created_during_U.S._presidential_terms#Job_creation_by_term

Yes, they didn't do it alone. They had help. This administration however is much to influenced by Wall Street money to make jobs a high enough priority.

[defendandprotect]

193. FED --a private bank -- is making the decisions on our economy and jobs and stimulus!!!

Everything is being moved to back rooms and private deals --

corporations cannot afford to have any of this done in open --

Per Al Gore/Rolling Stone -- Congress is controlled by oil and coal industries -- !!


... to say the least!!

[harun]

235. They need high unemployement to offset the inflation normally caused

by printing as much money as they are (QE2).

It's business school 101. You need the anchor of lots of unemployed to keep inflation under control while flooding the system with fake money.

[Palmer Eldritch]

7. Do you mean the Repugs in the House?

Because the Democrats have brought up Job Bills in the House and the Senate only to be voted down or filibustered.

[tekisui]

16. Dems had two years of majorities and choose to pursue policies

other than major jobs programs.

[Palmer Eldritch]

25. so the Federal Stimulus doesn't count as a Jobs program? Be serious.

[tekisui]

58. Drop in the bucket. Where are those jobs now?

[defendandprotect]

194. No -- because it was only 20% of what economists told Obama was needed ....

and Obama settled for even less!!

Think we should be calling this thing what it actually is -- a depression --

They've gotten away with the labeling for too long --

3 million homeless -- up to 21% or so unemployed when we count actual 15% unemployment

when long time unemployed are added in -- and those working part time rather than full

time jobs -- and those working at jobs they are overqualified for --

TIME TO WAKE UP !!

[amborin]

220. Obama caved to repugs & included useless tax cuts in the stimulus; still got zero repug votes

for capitulating to them; otherwise, Dean Baker has said we're headed towards a depression, if not already in one

[SDuderstadt]

36. I'd love to hear your solution...

dude.

C'mon. Lay it out for us. Please be specific. Or, are you only interested in carping from the sidelines?

[DrDan]

34. sure seems that way - jobs should have been the priority since

inauguration - but that sure does not seem to be the case. Baffles me how this economy will improve until we start creating jobs.

[tekisui]

61. Obama and the Dems squandered their political capital on other issues.

A sorely missed opportunity.

[Name removed]

63. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

123. I'd love to hear your solution...

dude.

Why not lay it out for us?

[Eddie Haskell]

122. You create jobs by creating demand.

Unless you put money in the hands of consumers, tax breaks for businesses make no sense ... it's like pushing on a rope.

[DrDan]

128. how about tax breaks for those creating on-shore jobs instead on off-shoring?

This administration has done the opposite. Jobs are being created, just not here.

[Eddie Haskell]

177. Good point.

The jobs are created "over there" and the profits are kept "over there" to avoid paying taxes over here.

[DrDan]

226. exactly- and we consume the products keeping the profits up

[BeFree]

3. Frank Zappa said:

They will keep the play going as long as they can afford, but when they no longer can, they will strip the stage bare and all you will see is the brick wall.

And Pink Floyd sang: You're just another brick in the wall.

The Boy Scouts plan along was the correct one: Be Prepared.

[leeroysphitz]

13. He also said;

Don't be no fool, don't be no dope
Common sense is your only hope
When the union tells you it's time to strike
Tell the motherfucker to take a hike

[BeFree]

23. Oh?

Well, he did have a zappa empire going.
So maybe his corporate side had some serious labor issues?
Maybe he decided he couldn't afford to keep the play going with union employees?

[RandomKoolzip]

182. Frank Zappa was notoriously anti-union.

"Stick Together" was just one of his many public utterances about his disdain for unions. Most of his antipathy toward them had to do with bad experiences trying to get union orchestra members to play his music right - and because, according to "Negative Dialectics of Poodle Play" author Ben Watson, Zappa had on tape a union boss yelling "TIME!" in order to stop a rehearsal of a piece that a few more minutes of practice would have made perfect. His 1983 recording of the London Symphony Orchestra includes performances that are admittedly incorrect and sloppily played, primarily because the players were union and would not go into overtime during rehearsals.

Frank Zappa was a genius, and I'm a huge huge fan - I've got over 200+ hours of bootlegged Zappa shows on my iPod and every boo ever publiched on the guy- however, he was a flawed man and often politically short-sighted (witness his misguided views on women and his homophobic references in songs like "Bobby Brown" and "He's So Gay.") Part of why I enjoy his music so much is BECAUSE he doesn't reinforce my political beliefs.

ANyway, that quote above, about the brick wall was incorrect as well.

[Dept of Beer]

187. He also thought that Centerville was a good place to raise your kids.

What did he know?

[inna]

131. wow, that's one pretty fucked up song there, isn't it

[OwnedByFerrets]

158. He was a genius

[NYC_SKP]

4. He's right, no matter what the government does, there will be hell to pay for decades of....

...unsustainable policies across the board.

Neglect of infrastructure.

Shortsighted economic plans.

Sellout to globalism.

Healthcare costs out of control and administrations asleep at the wheel on it.

Yes, there will be hell to pay.

I hope it's not about cuts, but there will probably have to be cuts.

[Eddie Haskell]

124. Did he say why?

Or didn't they want to know?

[inna]

134. Why (in the world?) do you defend Geithner? He doesn't need your defense, and he is wrong.

Just about as wrong and harmful as one can be, in fact.

Damn, I just hope that it is not some sort of an official DU position that you speak on behalf on here.

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

156. Those M&$%#$F@#$%&s weren't asleep at the wheel. They

were too busy getting rich while the people were running up credit cards, buying cars and mortgages they couldn't afford! Then along comes this young bright mind who thinks up a scheme to take advantage of the unknowing public. Hedging bets. This mess has been in operation for a very very long time and nobody said a word. When the jobs started going overseas, the unions should have been screaming and everybody along with them. But no, everybody was so in love with Billy boy (including me, I admit)and living large they didn't pay attention to what was REALLY going on. Now, that the economy has folded like a house of cards, everybody is on the same page when it comes to bashing and blaming Obama! Classic shock doctrine. Go figure.

[Dept of Beer]

188. "I hope it's not about cuts, but there will probably have to be cuts."

Then be prepared for the sad possibility of one term.

As you said; "Yes, there will be hell to pay."

[Hawkowl]

223. Doesn't have to be

See that is the rub. If we simply put the "Defense" budget back to Clinton levels and restored taxes to Clinton levels, and prosecuted the banksters and broke up the corrupt banking oligopolies, then it would take a mere few years, not decades. Iceland and Argentina are two countries that told the banksters to go fuck themselves and emerged from economic depression far faster than anyone foretold.

What we lack is courage. Courage of our leaders, courage of our people to pressure their leaders.

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. I'll go look for the video.

Sounds like must-watch TV right there.

[Ruby the Liberal]

8. VIDEO link

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/07/10/ftn/main20078227.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

[dixiegrrrrl]

14. Good on you!!!!! Thanks.

:hi:

[Ruby the Liberal]

53. I have just watched this twice, and I didn't hear that comment

Did you catch it and of so, at what point in the interview?

[dixiegrrrrl]

120. Missed it, but I was listening with distractions going on around me.

[some guy]

139. no.

I didn't hear anything about job numbers at all. No mentions of unemployment.

I did hear the word "Defense" as something being discussed in terms of reaching a deal. Nothing beyond the specific word, though.

Mostly, my thoughts while I was listening, were that we wouldn't have this problem if we didn't have a fucking Federal Reserve.

[some guy]

141. The OP is wrong

it mentions Face The Nation, but that person seems t have been watching Meet the Press. That video is posted now, and contains the part of the discussion not found in your video.


Interestingly, other than acting as a bomb-thrower with the OP, that person has (apparently) not felt any reason to participate in their own thread.

I'm thinking I'l not give them an A+ for credibility.

[Ruby the Liberal]

224. Nice catch on the drive-by OP

[rhett o rick]

9. The stock market is a game the big boys use to steal from the gullible. To make

maximum profits, it must "tank" on occasion. That's when the big boys make their money. Then a new bubble will start and the gullibles will get on board again. Maybe this time they will hit it big. Odds are they wont.

[defendandprotect]

195. Exactly -- !!! As all of capitalism is a scam ... believe me the elites don't want to sell cars ...

or make toilet paper -- what they want is to regain control government --

[xphile]

11. Of course he won't be suffering will he? He'll continue counting his money and

failing upward.

[SDuderstadt]

18. Yeah...

It's all a big plot, dude.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TheKentuckian]

33. Sure is.

[CleanGreenFuture]

12. He certainly did say that. And, like you, my teeth almost fell out. And I don't have dentures.

[defendandprotect]

196. Which, btw, can only mean that Obama/Dems are moving further to the right -- !!

[Tennessee Gal]

21. Logic says that this mess we are ...

that the Bush administration is responsible for ... will not be reversed overnight. To expect a quick fix is unrealistic.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

54. No one expected "quick" or "overnight"...lay that meme to rest.

It's the DIRECTION, not the pace.

[defendandprotect]

197. Unfortunately, Democrats were colluding with GOP back in 1978 to break the tax code ...

for the benefit of the rich --

See Wm. Greider on that -- "Who Will Tell the People?"

[ClarkUSA]

24. Transcript? Geithner isn't sugarcoating the truth. You're conflating what he said w/rank speculation

Why are you doing that when you know nothing about what will be the final budget deal?

[CleanGreenFuture]

31. What do you need a transcript for? Watch the damn video posted above.

[ClarkUSA]

39. I'm not capable of watching "the damn video" right now.

[WinkyDink]

43. That doesn't mean others need to be your secretary.

[ClarkUSA]

64. I'll remember your snark the next time someone asks me to furnish proof of their rhetoric.

[CleanGreenFuture]

73. So my snark is offensive but yours is not? I hardly think so. You seem to

be able to dish it out but when your rudely confrontational tone is met by same, your feelings get hurt.

I'm not sympathetic. And your childish threat makes no difference to me.

Ed. spelling

[ClarkUSA]

82. I was not speaking to you. BTW, I am still waiting for a transcript to verify the OP's claims.

[Pooka Fey]

229. Welcome to DU, CleanGreenFuture

Well done. Extra points for caring about the English language enough to check your spelling. I like your post, and I'm glad to see you here - we need more posters like you to replace the old-timers who have left due to "snark-fatigue".

:hi:

[CleanGreenFuture]

48. Geithner quote from today's MTP:

"it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for a long time to come."

[Ruby the Liberal]

56. At what point in the video is that?

I posted the vid link above, but haven't heard it yet.

[CleanGreenFuture]

90. Then why did you post the video if the reference comments were not in it?

Actually, from what I can see, the referenced bit of the interview seems to have been left on the cutting room floor.

[Ruby the Liberal]

97. I posted the video of the interview.

[CleanGreenFuture]

105. Well, we all make assumptions that turn out to be false. I'm guilty of

it in this very thread because I assumed you posted a video that had the relevant segment of the interview.

Shit happens. No worries.

[mzmolly]

52. I watched the damn video and the OP took remarks out of context.

:hi:

[CleanGreenFuture]

59. You say that yet you fail to say anything more. Geithner quote:

"it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for a long time to come."

[mzmolly]

74. How about the full quote/context?

:D

[Coyote_Bandit]

28. He, right - but the thing is

neither he or his boss are putting forth policies to address the real problems in our economy. They are still trying to treat the symptoms.

Bottom line is that we are going to have to completely rebuild our economy. We need an economy built on real productivity - not on consumer spending, not on service sector jobs, not on information technology. To get it we are going to have to gut much of what we have in place right now. We are going to have to rebuild our infrastructure and train our citizens to value blue collar work. I doubt this nation will have a healthy economy again during my lifetime.

I also expect to see US residents leaving this nation for better opportunities elsewhere.

[Eddie Haskell]

129. "train our citizens to value blue collar work"

Do you mean train them to accept below minimum wage jobs like the Mexicans? Or, did you mean train them to value hard work?

[Coyote_Bandit]

149. Ummmm......

We tell our kids to go to school and work hard and get good grades so they can get a good job. That's bullshit advice. Most college grads work in fields completely unrelated to their college field of study. If they are able to even find a job. And far too many of those kids take on student loans that limit their options and lifestyle for years into the future.

We don't want our kids to do dirty jobs or dangerous jobs or jobs that we somehow think are beneath us/them. Far too often, we tell them they can do and be whatever they want. More bullshit advice. If we really cared about our kids we would encourage them to earn a livlihood doing something that interests them, something that they have and aptitude for, something they can affordably acquire the skills to do, something that isn't slready overpopulated with job seekers.

An average plumber will earn more than most of those college educated white collar kids that end up working in a call center. And if he loses his job the plumber has the skills to start his own shop. And he didn't forego 4 or 5 years of earnings. The mathematics of the corporate hierarchy are such that most of those entry level white collar workers don't rise through the ranks. If they are lucky their career will consist of some lateral moves and perhaps they will climb a step or two up the ladder. If they are not so lucky, they will find themselves repeatedly downsized and perpetually starting over.

FWIW, I've known a whole lot of lilly white Americans that have worked some pretty damned hard dirty dangerous jobs - including those "Mexican" jobs. Specifically, I've known white folks that have earned their livlihood picking produce, processing chickens, mucking out barns, working commercial egg production, working in resturants, roofing houses, working construction and performing lots of other tasks that some think are only worthy of immigrants.

[Eddie Haskell]

174. I agree, but in my area there's no shortage of skilled labor, and

there's no shortage of hard working individuals. Still we have a lot of foreigners working here at wages well below what used to be the norm. In other words, the foreign workers aren't doing work no one else will or can do ... they're just doing it for less.

[Hamlette]

32. nice to be in the party that is honest, instead of the last one that lied to us all those years.

you'd rather he lie? Everyone out there already knows it will be bad for a long time. Run the numbers.

[BeFree]

37. Touche

I'd rather hear the truth.

[OHdem10]

44. He is doing what some believe they should have done earlier.

We are in recession brought on by structural changes ie Globalization
which was mishandled from the get go. All this unemmployment is
due to poorly managed Trade Policies. Businesses have adapted
to the reality. The number of customers out there with paying
jobs. Business are in business to make money. They have the
number of employees they need. Yse, the collapse of the
financial markets brought on the Recession but now everything
has leveled out. Why so many jobless. Structural problem with
our TRADE DEFICIT. All the jobs relocated overseas, the outsourcing
was totally done with no controls hardly any oversight. Our
manufacturing base was gutted. Our system is designed so
that Businesses take priority. Therefore they go to where
the Labor is cheapest. We are now in the process of lowering
American Standard of Living so we can compete and bring the
jobs back at lower wages. It appears the Republicans have
won. Even the new Trade Deals are not that much different
nor will the Republicans permit them to be. Union busting
going on in the states means making way for lower salaries.

Of course I can understand why they never explain this. There
is no party who is willing to take a stand against Business.
Our Party is divided. The Conservadems for the most part
agree with Republican Conservatives. Geithner is trying to
in a very general way lay out the future. Wall St. knows
this. They just want us to hurry up and adapt.

[sabrina 1]

130. He was part of the problem. He is the spokesperson for what

you accurately describe, which is to reduce the standard of living all over the world to level wages in what used to be first world countries, Europe and the US eg, to be more in line with third world nations.

This is imho, a form of treason.

Extending the tax cuts for the wealthy, eg, when it is well known that supposed reason for those cuts initially was to create jobs, which they not only did not do, but they cost this country two trillion dollars in revenue, was a blatant statement that they intend to continue with those plans.

Any tax cuts for the wealthy should have been only considered for those who create jobs HERE. But that was never even mentioned.

Will they succeed with their draconian plans for the people of the world? Probably in the short term but not for long.

I believe their evil plans will cause enough unrest around the globe that eventually it will collapse around them.

The first thing therefore that the people of the world need to do is to refuse to accept their 'fixes', as in Greece, iow, Greece should have defaulted, as Argentina did and most recently, as Iceland did. Since their quick fix in Greece probably won't last, there will most likely be a repeat of the same formula before too long and I think that the next time, they will find it hard to find governments, even those they helped install, who will be willing to face the wrath of the people, as was the case in Iceland.

[defendandprotect]

198. We are in a depression -- the result of a financial coup ....

See Catherine Austin Fitts -- google

[roomfullofmirrors]

45. I have been saying that for years.

nothing but hard times ahead for this world.

[CleanGreenFuture]

50. Me too, to anyone who will listen. I've found two people who listened. That's it. Yet,

here we are. And it's only going to get worse.

Imagine a day when circumstances cause the just-in-time food delivery system to collapse.

[roomfullofmirrors]

57. when exponential growth runs into the wall of finite resources, you have hell on earth.

you can only stuff so many goldfish into the bowl before bad things start to happen.

[CleanGreenFuture]

65. It's already happening. Civilization is in the initial stages of collapse right now

and has been for several years.

Most continue to deny this reality, thereby perpetuating and agitating it.

[defendandprotect]

199. What else would corporate/fascism bring ... ?

That's not the question -- Social Security and Medicare won't be the end of this --

this is "Third world America" --

Elites picking up where they left off with Hitler/Nazis --

The rise of the Fourth Reich --

[Obamanaut]

46. He must be an OK guy. The President put him in that job.

:sarcasm:

And we trust the President, and support him, and have faith in what his plans are.

more :sarcasm:

[WinkyDink]

47. You know "The Wizard of Oz"? "If we only had no wars...."

[mzmolly]

51. The actual quote/context is that IF we don't raise the debt ceiling,

we face catastrophic damage to the economy. He also said that if we try to reform without adding revenue we're forced to make deep cuts and that's not acceptable.

[Arkana]

75. Why let context get in the way of a good story?

[CleanGreenFuture]

80. If that part of the interview is what the OP was actually referencing, your

sarcasm would be on target.

That payroll tax cut was intended to stimulate economic growth and spur job creation. But Geithner gave a somber assessment of the economy, saying that "it's going to take a long time still" before many Americans feel that a recovery is under way. "This is still a very tough economy. For a lot of people, it's going to feel very hard — harder than anything they've experienced in a lifetime now — for some time to come."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43701378/ns/politics-white_house/

Edited to correct link.

[mzmolly]

110. The OP wasn't talking about Meet The Press. He's discussing Face The

Nation. However, I don't disagree with the Geitner statement above. Though, I think it differs from the hyperbole in the OP.

[CleanGreenFuture]

116. Well, you got me there. You're right. Geithner was also on FTN. I allowed

myself to be derailed by the MTP video posting above. But I have no excuse.

My apologies for the confusion.

[mzmolly]

163. No problem, I too was confused

about what the OP indicated given the FTN video had no such information. :hi:

[CleanGreenFuture]

86. You are wrong.

[mzmolly]

100. So provide the entire context of the quote

and let others decide who is wrong.

[CleanGreenFuture]

102. Ok, here you go:

...Geithner gave a somber assessment of the economy, saying that "it's going to take a long time still" before many Americans feel that a recovery is under way. "This is still a very tough economy. For a lot of people, it's going to feel very hard — harder than anything they've experienced in a lifetime now — for some time to come."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43701378/ns/politics-white_house/

[mzmolly]

109. You provided a transcript for MTP. And, like the OP, added a bit of spin,

and failed to provide context.

"I think it will take a long time still. This is a very tough economy. And I think for a lot of people, it's going to feel very hard, harder than the experience in a lifetime for some time to come. And that is because that is the tragic effects of a crisis this deep and this bad caused by a long period of lost opportunities to do things that made the country stronger," Secretary of Treasury Timothy Geithner told "Meet the Press."

This differs from the assertion that he said - "the American people are going to suffer like they have never suffered in their lifetime".

Yes it will take a long time for improvement. Yes it's a tough economy. And yes, for many, the economy will mean more difficult financial hardship than they've faced before. Most of us realize that this is what eight years of Republican rule brings. It's why the lame Obama = Bush assertions are so dangerous.

[PassingFair]

143. That's flat-out wrong. He was NOT talking about IF...he was

talking about RIGHT NOW.

I just watched the clip. In NO WAY was that comment
"cautionary" IF the republicans don't lift the debt ceiling,
he was talking about our CURRENT SITUATION.

[mzmolly]

159. There are two videos posted here. ONE is from Meet The Press

and the other from Face The Nation. I watched the video snip from Face The Nation which entailed a discussion about the debt ceiling. However it's true that the overblown, hyperbolic OP was supposedly about where we are now. Regardless, the actual commentary was taken to the extreme to make the case for panic. The OMG intro was a tip off for me.

[PassingFair]

208. You are a frog in slowing warming water for some reason.

I hope you are not making fiscal decisions based
on a bright economic future.

That is all.

[mzmolly]

213. I'm not claiming a bright economic future awaits in the near.

I'm suggesting that the OP's characterization about what Geitner stated is overblown.

[PassingFair]

215. The OP mis-posted...

He should have said "Meet the Press" instead of "Face the Nation"

His post was accurate except for that.

[mzmolly]

219. I disagree that it was an accurate depiction of the conversation on MTP.

Geitner said some positive things about recovery efforts and progress that has been made on jobs, specifically.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43672884/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/t/meet-press-transcript-july/

SEC'Y GEITHNER: Well, David, that's a--let me just say that's a ridiculous table. If you step back and you look at what's happening to the American economy--remember, when the president took office we were losing 3/4 of a million jobs a month, the economy was declining at an annual rate of 5 percent. Worst economic storm than we've seen since the Great Depression. In fact, Greenspan and Bernanke and others have said a greater shock than what precipitated the Great Depression. Now, the president acted, took a lot of political risk, did very unpopular things, but the economy started growing again within six months. We've had more than two million jobs created in the private sector since job growth resumed again. America is in a stronger position today, but we're not growing fast enough.

...

MR. GREGORY: ... My question is, has the recovery stalled?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: The, the economy absolutely slowed in the first half of the year. There's no doubt on that. And when the economy slows, job creation will slow, and that's what's happening. It slowed because, as you know, gas prices went up a lot because we had a huge supply disruption in the Mideast. You saw some really terrible weather across the country which slowed construction spending. State and local governments across the country are having to cut back, tighten their belts. You saw Japan suffer catastrophic damage. A lot of concern out of Europe still. And those factors together account for a large part of the slowdown. Not all of it, but a large part of it.

MR. GREGORY: All right, but is the, is the economy recovering still?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: Well, I, I think most people if you, if you look at what most business economists say about the economy today, they still believe the economy is going to strength in the second half and strengthen into next year.

SEC'Y GEITHNER: We still have millions and millions of Americans out of work, and the most important thing we can do is to make sure we're taking steps to get people back to work as quickly as we can.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let me ask you this. The president was asked in his Twitter town hall about the economy and whether mistakes were made. And I want to show you a portion of what he said.

MR. GREGORY: How did the president not prepare the American people well enough? You're his top economic adviser, Larry Summers was there. Did you guys get it wrong? Did you not tell him how bad it was?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: I think he's being too hard on himself, David. I think everybody understood, and we were very careful in the beginning to make sure people understood how grave this was and how difficult it was going to be to fix. You know, this took a long time to build up, the problems that caused the crisis. It's going to take time to fix. ...

MR. GREGORY: So in other words it's unfair to demand...

SEC'Y GEITHNER: ...a stronger recovery.

MR. GREGORY: ...accountability for this president and this administration for the, the fate of the economy?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: No, no. Of course. The--ultimately presidents are judged on...

MR. GREGORY: Right. OK, but Mr. Secretary, if that's the case, look, you guys have had some big swings at the plate. You had stimulus, right? We were told that was going to keep unemployment to 8 percent. You had health care. You said it was critical to our economic security. The Fed did its thing before it backed out. You went after housing policy. None of them have really stemmed the tide, the decline in the housing market.

SEC'Y GEITHNER: I, I told you yesterday that the--let me stop you there again.

MR. GREGORY: Yeah.

SEC'Y GEITHNER: The American economy was falling off the cliff in the fall of '08 and the first months of his administration. And he put in place the most creative, the most forceful set of economic measures we have ever done as a country. And because of that, we've prevented a second Great Depression and the economy has now been growing for more than a year and a half, more than two million jobs in the private sector since job creation started again. Faster job creation than the last two recoveries. ...

MR. GREGORY: When do you think recovery is actually going to start feeling like recovery?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: Oh, I think it's going to take a long time still. This is a very tough economy. And I think for a lot of people...it's going to be--it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for some time to come. And that--but that is because that is the tragic effects of a crisis this deep and this bad caused by a long period of lost opportunities to do things to make the country strong.

The OP took the last paragraph above, and spun what Geitner said. I'm not saying it was intentional, but the differences between what he said and the OP's characterization are important.

[Skip_In_Boulder]

60. I heard him say pretty much that same thing but,

he was on Meet the Press

[somone]

62. Yeah, but all that won't matter in 2012

:sarcasm:

[ClarkUSA]

67. Prove it. Transcript? mzmolly says you took Geithner's words out of context.

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1458072&mesg_id=1458350

Furthermore, Ruby the Liberal watched the video and haven't heard what you claim he said either:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1458072&mesg_id=1458375

[SDuderstadt]

70. I suspect mzmolly and...

ClarkUSA are correct.

Of course, it's not uncommon for some at DU to leave out necessary context.

[Ruby the Liberal]

83. I also didn't hear him asked about job numbers

Maybe I should listen to it again, or perhaps CBS cut that part of the interview?

[CleanGreenFuture]

85. Pars of the interview have conveniently been left on the cutting room floor.

[ClarkUSA]

88. We have no way of verifying your claim or the OP's claims without a TRANSCRIPT.

[CleanGreenFuture]

91. Fine. Suit yourself.

[ClarkUSA]

87. Your questions are valid. I suspect they will go unanswered in a satisfactory manner.

[CleanGreenFuture]

84. Conveniently, the part of the interview the OP references is not available

in the out-takes at the Meet the Press website.

Here is your proof:

That payroll tax cut was intended to stimulate economic growth and spur job creation. But Geithner gave a somber assessment of the economy, saying that "it's going to take a long time still" before many Americans feel that a recovery is under way. "This is still a very tough economy. For a lot of people, it's going to feel very hard — harder than anything they've experienced in a lifetime now — for some time to come."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43701378/ns/politics-white_house/

[Ruby the Liberal]

94. That was definitely not in the video

They never mentioned payroll tax cuts or jobs. It was only about the debt ceiling.

Thanks for the quote.

[CleanGreenFuture]

96. You're welcome. I watched the interview so I know the context. And the OP did

not take what he said out of context. He said the economy was bad and people are going to hurt like they've never hurt before. ( I'm paraphrasing, you know, for the anal types )

[ClarkUSA]

101. The OP's claim that Geithner was talking about "the terrible job numbers" is not proven.

[CleanGreenFuture]

103. The jobs report came out Friday. Did you miss it? The numbers were terrible. So...

what's the problem?

[ClarkUSA]

106. Red herring aside, the OP still has not proven Geithner was replying to a question re: jobs numbers.

BTW, the jobs numbers was misleading, because of this good news:

"Private payrolls rise by 157,000 in June"

Edited on Sat Jul-09-11 11:30 PM by ClarkUSA
FACT:

WASHINGTON (MarketWatch) — Private-sector employment rose 157,000 in June, according to Automatic Data Processing Inc.’s employment report released Thursday, in what could be a signal that the recent economic soft patch may not last long.

The headline number surprised Wall Street, coming in more than double the 70,000 increase expected by economists.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=433&topic_id=705468&mesg_id=705468

The public sector took a big hit, thanks to GOP governors' laying off state workers, and those numbers affected the stellar news re: public sector hiring.

[ClarkUSA]

95. I'd still like a full transcript because you're offering a paraphrased snippet.

This is what the OP claims Geithner said:

"He was asked about the terrible job numbers.

He replied first about how there should have been so many things taken care of/fixed over the years that weren't, blah, blah. Then he said this will continue for a long time AND that the American people are going to suffer like they have never suffered in their lifetime. (He wasn't talking about the debt ceiling, etc....he just plain said as a matter of fact that we are going to suffer like we have never suffered in our lifetime). Ummm, maybe it's time to show us what exactly is in Obama's litte "cuts" package. Anyway, his comments should just about tank the stock market tomorrow."

From the little I've read, the OP's suspicions and predictions seem like over-the-top negative speculation. Also, there's no evidence Geithner said this in direct response to a question re: "the terrible job numbers" as the OP claims.

[CleanGreenFuture]

99. I'm sure you do. But the quote I posted is a DIRECT QUOTE., not a paraphrasing.

[ClarkUSA]

104. Your snippet is out of context because it doesn't show what question he was replying to.

Here's what you posted:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1458072&mesg_id=1458637

Not that the OP claims he was responding to a question re: "the terrible jobs numbers." That's the reason I am interested in context and a full transcript. I am not asking you provide one, just that it is important to read one to verify the OP's claims.

[CleanGreenFuture]

117. Please accept my apologies for the confusion. Please read post #119 and.

my reponse to it, post #126.

I think I should go outside now and mess around in the garden.

[ClarkUSA]

138. Post #119 is not relevant to this topic. You are robinlynne of Reply #126?

[jwirr]

77. Actually he may be the only person willing to tell the truth. We are

being held hostage by the University of Chicago, the trickle down theory and the rethugs. We have oil depletion facing us in the near future if not already. We have climate change moving faster than expected. The corporations are not willing to help for whatever reason and we are in the midst of the retirement of the baby boomers who have contributed in the past and are not going to be doing that as much in the future. This is not the 1930s. We do not have the resources FDR had and we are mostly urban. All of these factor into the economic forecast.

I have been reading Kunstler for years now. None of this comes as any surprise. Buckle up - we are in for a rough ride.

[alfredo]

111. The market dropping will underline boehner's weekend walkout of

The negotiations. Timmy just stuck it to the republicans.

Timmy also described in detail what would happen if we default.

First it was Cantor having a hussy fit, then McConnell, now Boehner.

Obama is the only adult in the room.

[leveymg]

114. I predict Tim falls on his sword and announces his new 8-figure job within 60 days

Someone has to take the fall and be made to look personally responsible for every failure. Of course, many of us will say that a page has turned and everything is good. A 100% Do-Over will be granted by the usual suspects on this board.

[Jakes Progress]

144. Timmy's already got his job lined up.

He will be amply rewarded for his efforts. We just have to wonder which Goldman golden child will take his place.

[Karmadillo]

137. Full transcript (Maybe already posted, but who in the world would want to read all of this thread?)

There's nothing about where all the green shoots went.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43672884/ns/meet_the_press-transcripts/

<edit>

MR. GREGORY: Right. OK, but Mr. Secretary, if that's the case, look, you guys have had some big swings at the plate. You had stimulus, right? We were told that was going to keep unemployment to 8 percent. You had health care . You said it was critical to our economic security . The Fed did its thing before it backed out. You went after housing policy . None of them have really stemmed the tide, the decline in the housing market .

SEC'Y GEITHNER: I, I told you yesterday that the -- let me stop you there again.

MR. GREGORY: Yeah.

SEC'Y GEITHNER: The American economy was falling off the cliff in the fall of '08 and the first months of his administration . And he put in place the most creative, the most forceful set of economic measures we have ever done as a country . And because of that, we've prevented a second Great Depression and the economy has now been growing for more than a year and a half, more than two million jobs in the private sector since job creation started again. Faster job creation than the last two recoveries. Now, things are very hard still, and we're not growing fast enough, and the president of the United States is going to keep at it to make sure that every day we're looking for more opportunities to get the economy moving again faster. But he can't do that alone. It does require Congress , under our Constitution , to be willing to legislate things that would help. Like, for example -- and you, you know these examples -- if we could pass some trade agreements to expand export growth, that would be good. If we could find ways to help rebuild America , we can put more people back to work. If we can figure out ways right now to extend these tax benefits for 98 percent of working families , that will help for confidence.

MR. GREGORY: When do you think recovery is actually going to start feeling like recovery ?

SEC'Y GEITHNER: Oh, I think it's going to take a long time still. This is a very tough economy . And I think for a lot of people...

MR. GREGORY: Yeah.

SEC'Y GEITHNER: ...it's going to be -- it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for some time to come . And that -- but that is because that is the tragic effects of a crisis this deep and this bad caused by a long period of lost opportunities to do things to make the country stronger.

more...

[Danger Mouse]

152. Sounds pretty grim.

[mzmolly]

161. To clarify this transcript is from Meet The Press, the OP mentioned

Face The Nation which confused matters as the remarks couldn't be verified. I think he was talking about Meet The Press, but of course the comments are overblown and inaccurate, regardless.

[JAnthony]

145. Please use quotes, not paraphrasing.

Your irresponsible re-phrasing of his comment out of context, in response to an avid quote-mining idiot questioner with a Republican agenda.

Shame on you. Get a solution to the problem he and Obama face and publicize such solution! Remember that you have no majority in the House, and idiots who will vote for anything that doesn't increase taxes.

Find us a solution, and come back when you do! Until then, stop shock jockeying as if you had a better answer to America's current dilemma. You DON'T! Not if you're trying to be honest.

[some guy]

146. Yes

but having perused most of this thread, it's obvious you didn't.

You claim "Face The Nation" but apparently you were watching "Meet The Press"

as my sister taterguy would say: dumbass.

[RB TexLa]

151. We are looking at a 35 to 30 year recovery. I don't think people should make up lies and try to

sugar coat that.

[Enthusiast]

154. You know why this is utter horse shit?

It is utter horse shit because we are shoveling money to military contractors all over the fucking world. We can't give these tax dollars away fast enough or expand our military footprint to a large enough size to satisfy the hawks. We are building stuff in Afghanistan but they want to cut your medicare. What is the monthly air conditioning electric bill in Afghanistan again? This is fucking insanity.

Have we cut pensions for members of congress? Have we made them start paying a higher part of their insurance costs? Nope. But they want seniors to take a hit?

[Name removed]

155. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Autumn]

176. It certainly is utter horse shit

they are safe in their little bubbles and they don;t care what happens to the peons. They are not serious about the deficit, they are simply using it to make cuts on the backs of the ones who are the most vulnerable. If they had any concern about the deficit they would end the wars and end the tax cuts for the wealthiest. The simple fact that those wars are never mentioned is proof to me that it's horse shit.

[girl gone mad]

184. And don't forget the $13 Trillion gifted to Geither's pals on Wall Street.

From the brilliant economist Michael Hudson, http://michael-hudson.com/2011/06/how-a-13-trillion-cover-story-was-written">How a $13 Trillion Cover Story was Written:

Instead of this network of reciprocal claims being let go, they have been taken onto the government’s own balance sheet. This has occurred not only in the United States but even more disastrously in Ireland, shifting the obligation to pay – on what were basically gambles rather than loans – from the financial institutions that had lost on these bets (fraudulently inflated loans) onto the government (“taxpayers”).

The government took over the mortgage lending guarantors Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac (privatizing the profits, “socializing” the losses) for $5.3 trillion – almost as much as the entire national debt. The Treasury lent $700 billion under the Troubled Asset Relief Plan (TARP) to Wall Street’s largest banks and brokerage houses. The latter re-incorporated themselves as “banks” to get Federal Reserve handouts and access to the Fed’s $2 trillion in “cash for trash” swaps crediting Wall Street with Fed deposits for otherwise “illiquid” loans and securities (the euphemism for toxic, fraudulent or otherwise insolvent and unmarketable debt instruments) – at “cost” based on full mark-to-model fictitious valuations.

Altogether, the post-2008 crash saw some $13 trillion in such obligations transferred onto the government’s balance sheet from high finance, euphemized as “the private sector” as if it were the core economy itself, rather than its calcifying shell.

Instead of losing on their bad bets, bad loans, toxic mortgages and outright fraudulent claims, the financial institutions cleaned up, at public expense. They collected enough to create a new century’s power elite to lord it over “taxpayers” in industry, agriculture and commerce who will be charged to pay off this debt.

[SDuderstadt]

190. "brilliant economist...

Michael Hudson".

Too funny.

[girl gone mad]

200. His body of work speaks for itself.

wildly successful on Wall Street and in academia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Hudson_%28economist%29

His May 2006 Harper's cover story, “The New Road to Serfdom: An illustrated guide to the coming real estate collapse,” was the first major national article forecasting - in precise chart form - the bursting of the real estate bubble and its consequences for homeowners and state and local government solvency.

For Scudder, Stevens & Clark in 1990, he established the world’s first Third World sovereign debt fund, which became the second best performing international fund in 1991.

Your credentials could never match his, of that I am certain.

[SDuderstadt]

203. More begging the question n/t

[amborin]

202. you defend the WH's transfer of $13 trillion of banksters' bad private debt onto the taxpayers?

[girl gone mad]

204. Not only that, he defends it by insulting..

the strongest progressive economist working today with vapid ad hominem rhetoric.

[SDuderstadt]

206. Your opinion doesn't make something...

a fact.

[girl gone mad]

207. And yours does?

I provided evidence of Hudson's ample qualifications in the field of economics. You retorted with empty vitriol. Why persist? According to your own standard, you have clearly lost the debate.

[SDuderstadt]

210. In my experience...

the one who keeps insisting the other guy lost, is the one who actually lost.

[girl gone mad]

212. What experience would that be?

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

214. In my experience...

the guy who keeps going on and on about the other guy losing, is the one who actually lost.

[SDuderstadt]

205. I am asking for evidence of the claim...

do you understand the difference?

[girl gone mad]

211. You were provided evidence..

from no less than a PhD economics professor with a sterling background in business and finance, yet you scoffed. Whatever your game may be, the insincerity is transparent.

[SDuderstadt]

216. No, you simply said...

it's a "statement of fact" and continue to beg the question.

I'm going to assume that you simply cannot prove your claim.

[Enthusiast]

225. Anything for well connected "friends".

Geithner's performance on Sunday didn't convince me.

Look at the reality of the situation. The "war" in Afghanistan is actually counterproductive to our national interests. Unless our 'national interests' are now dominated by lining the pockets of the war profiteers. We all know this. So when Obama and Geithner get all serious about the 'deficit' all we have to do is remember how fast their friends have looted the treasury. I mean, how many ways can they rob us blind?

[PoliticAverse]

232. That bailout was likely the greatest transfer of wealth in history. n/t

[mzmolly]

166. Here is the Face The Nation video.

I think the OP confused Meet The Press and Face The Nation? I didn't hear anything remotely similar to the statements suggested above, on today's FTN program.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7372836n&tag=contentMain

[bluestate10]

173. Exactly. Geithner said NOTHING like what the OP wrote.

Thanks for pulling the transcript. Distortions of facts don't help.

[PassingFair]

209. OP made a mistake, swapped "Face the Nation" for "Meet the Press"

He's quoting from the David Gregory interview.

[BlueIris]

168. That shocked you? In the past, I was surprised at how callous both Obama and his advisors can be

when discussing all these goddamn "necessary cuts." When I heard Obama describe the reason for cutting those Pell grants on NPR ("Oh, here's something that will save us some money") in an emotionless deadpan, I just about cried. Now, I know it is just how they think. We are nothing to them. Almost like the citizenry is abstract, imaginary. It's very sad to me, but no longer shocking.

[defendandprotect]

201. +1000% ---

Terrible --

[Beacool]

170. He said it on Meet the Press

Geithner says hard times to continue for many
July 10, 2011

WASHINGTON (AP) — Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner (GYT'-nur) says many Americans will face hard times for a long time to come.

He says President Barack Obama rescued the United States from a second Great Depression and will keep working to strengthen the economy. But Geithner says will be some time before many people feel like the country is recovering.

Geithner tells NBC's "Meet the Press" that it's a very tough economy. He says that for a lot of people "it's going to feel very hard, harder than anything they've experienced in their lifetime now, for a long time to come."

http://news.yahoo.com/geithner-says-hard-times-continue-many-150523958.html

:(

[bluestate10]

172. I advise DU members to get the video and listen to it. Geithner was talking

about the consequences of a default if republicans continued their intransigence. His statement was that a default would have dire consequences for all of american society for years to come. That is a correct statement, a default on US debt will punish anyone that need a loan, car buyers, home buyers, small and medium sized businesses, large businesses, students, ect. Please read the transcript for yourself.

[AsahinaKimi]

178. Republcians seem to look forward..

To making the rest of us suffer, while they get rich and fat off of everything. The don't need to hire us, when they can take their business over seas. Eventually, its going to look like that final scene out of Frankenstein, when the villagers come with pitchforks and torches looking for the Monster.

[defendandprotect]

189. Won't stock market go UP tomorrow -- ????

[deacon]

221. Why is anyone shocked? The bush economy will take decades to fix. This is so ignorant.

What pipe dream are people living in? Those that suggest that the bush/gop economy could be fixed in a matter of a few years shows only they have no clue of how bad it was. And to blame this economy on obama is (as the GOP is trying to do) is sick. All it shows is the msm media propaganda machine is alive and well.

[girl_interrupted]

243. It's how you go about "fixing" it

If it's on the back of the elderly, the poor and the disabled, it's a sick way to go about it. Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, should be left out of the mix. Obama may want to start considering cuts to things that are really driving up the deficit, like the unending wars he's into.

[bvar22]

244. The it is very odd that Obama would keep the Bush Economic Model largely intact.

From the Tax Cuts to Billionaires
to the Bailout of Wall Street,
to MORE WARS and INCREASED Military Spending,
to the continued employment of the "Economic Team" that caused the problems,
MORE "Free Trade",
and less help for people who need it.

Odd, isn't it?



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not their promises.

[Broderick]

230. So many want to attack the messenger

seems pointless and silly at this point. It has been said, it is news, and sounds grim to say the least. I wonder why people feel better attacking the messenger than dealing with the message. Kneejerk reactions so people feel better perhaps.