I seriously doubt that there is any chance of the Congress not voting up the debt ceiling.

[Kablooie]

If they decided to default, It wouldn't be because the US is in a financial dilemma and is unable to pay, like in Greece.
It would be a deliberate political decision by Congress.

It's as if someone with savings simply decides to stop paying their debtors because they don't want to pay anymore.

If this happened it would throw world finance into chaos and many of the world's wealthy could stand to lose large amounts of cash.
Since the world's wealthy pay buckets of money to Congress to insure that they remain wealthy this wouldn't be a very popular move.
In fact, if Congress decided not to raise the debt limit, any Congress person who voted for default would probably not be seen in Washington after the coming election.

Congress people in general aren't anxious to commit political suicide so we are going to see the debt limit raised no matter what.

So all this squabbling over what will and won't be cut is completely beside the point.
No matter what they decide, either way, the final vote will be to raise the debt limit.

There is no chance that the Republicans would place ideological values above obligations to the moneyed forces that control them.

[BeFree]

1. It was their last card

They really got nothing else.

Just a big ass bluff,

[obxhead]

2. Agreed. The only decision to make

is how much to fuck the American people in the process.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. No vote = Donors lose money = less campaign donations

[kenny blankenship]

4. That's discounting the lure for the crazies in being able to say

"Oh looky, the country went bust under Obama! Two hundred years, the strongest richest country on Earth. We get one black President in there and we go bankrupt in just two years."

That's the kind of candy they will find very hard to resist.

[pnwmom]

9. I think that is the plan. n/t

[The Big Vetolski]

5. I will be surprised if the debt limit is not raised. The rich are the

ones who will lose in the short-term. Most Congresscritters are rich, therefore, the debt limit will be raised.

If it's not, THEY will be the ones who lose money, at least at first. Actually, I hope that happens. I'm poor. I have nothing to lose. The Dude would be most amused if there was a default. Therefore, it probably won't happen.

Pity.

[TexDevilDog]

6. If they don't raise the limit the US government will not default.

The 14th amendment states that all US debts are valid, thus the treasury will have to pay it's debts first from incoming tax revenue. As for paying for everything else we need, we are screwed.

[LiberalAndProud]

7. You may be right.

But I don't put anything past these crazies. How do they save face now? They've had every opportunity to say that they got the best bargain they could, but not an inch, not a centimeter will they budge.

The teabaggers are holding everybody hostage.

[Kablooie]

13. Granted the T Part is insane but are there enough to override D and R votes?

They do seem intent on destroying the country and taking us back to an imaginary time of lollipops and gumdrops.

[Ozymanithrax]

8. It is politics and little complicated...but

(1) Republicans created the Tea party, a populist movement built around half truths and Conservative fantasy economics. This was actually pretty successful for them, but a number of their elected officials are there thanks to the Tea party and to go against Tea party religion will turn on the mad dog they leashed to their wagon.

(2) Normally, in these votes, they would expect to get a few Democratic votes, but this isn't likely to happen because it won't be a simple bill to raise the debt ceiling.

(3) It won't be a simple bill because Republicans are using this to force a Democratic President and a Democratic Senate to pass pure Republican ideology. Because they control the House, the party in the minority in the government is using a critical bill that must pass. If failing to pass this is only a quarter as bad as predictions, then it will be a disaster for the U.S. Economy to fail, and they judge that Obamna will not break the economy and that he can drag enough Democrats with him to force their poison pill on everybody.

(4) Finally, historically, Presidents with bad employment numbers and bad economies lose. If they crush the economy, they think they will win. So, either they put through their signature economic policies and use it to run on, or they crush the economy and say the Democrats did it. They see it as a win win situation.

[napoleon_in_rags]

10. I agree with one thing you said, it is complicated.

My take:

1) The Republican elite didn't create the Tea Party, it existed as the Ron Paul crowd which was growing so large and influential after Bush disappointment that a major effort had to be launched to recapture it. The stance of Ron Paul is that the United States SHOULD default. A refusal to cave to the Dems will accomplish their objectives, but not those of the traditional Republican players.

2) If America defaults, the train is officially off the tracks...I won't MATTER if they get Obama out of the driver's seat, because its not going anywhere after that point. A hard rain will fall. Tough times for all, and the existing control structures will collapse. You can make up your own mind on whether you agree with Paul that its a hard pill we need to swallow or disagree and think its an uneeded disaster, but there is one thing you can bet on: NOBODY who is vested in the status quo has ANY interest in having that happen, and that includes establishment Republicans.

[Ozymanithrax]

11. The evidence is pretty clear that the Koch brothers funded the Tea Party...

and it was a Republican creature from the beginning. I do agree that they attracted a lot of Paul's supporters. Yes, they used them and now they have to live with them.

And if the U.S. defaults it is going to be bad, and Obama will not win, no matter how bad the Republican nominee.

[kiranon]

12. Wouldn't bet the farm that the right wing won't try to bankrupt the country.

Boehner and other non crazy Republican members of the House would have to join with the Democrats to prevent default. It's time for moderate Republicans (sic)to leave the crazies to their own madness and let the country survive.

[napoleon_in_rags]

14. After years of watching, I have learned to see politics in a different way.

Its like surfing... Somebody catches a wave and says "behold I am Aquaman! I command this swell of water to carry me forward!" And at first, it really does look like he's commanding the swell of water, after all, he's on top of it. But if you watch for a time, you'll begin to see that the waves happen whether or not anybody is surfing on top taking credit. The roots of the Tea Party were just such a wave, a nameless and amorphous rejection of the last 8 years. But the master surfers got on top, and came out looking like Aquaman, which is what they do.

The power has always been with the people, and the extent to which that's not true is only equal to the extent the people believe that's not true.