No multi-dimensional chess here. The Grand Bargain was no bluff. The Pres wants this.

[erodriguez]

He wants to cut SS and Medicare.

"The basic thrust of the meeting was the president making the case for why to do a big deal and putting it to everyone around the table: if not now, when? And if not the big deal, then what is the alternative, particularly given that it is the Republicans who have said we need to use this opportunity to do something serious about the deficit,"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/10/obama-debt-ceiling-deal_n_894301.html


Just for posterity: (I know I'm probably wasting my time. But truly some people are arguing semantics.)

The Grand Bargain is reported by mutiple sources to include cuts to medicare and social security. The speaker in the quote is talking about the Grand Bargain.

Speaker Boehner had previosly rejected the Grand Bargain and the Pres. Is coming back to the table to push it.

From US News and World Reports. Taken ffrom a random search of the "Grand Bargain"

"As Congressional leaders confer with President Obama at the White House today on the debt negotiations, they've shown their cards a bit, and there's finally some clarity to go along with the red-hot rhetoric. Obama is reportedly still thinking big, pushing a debt ceiling compromise which would cut entitlement programs such as Medicare and Social Security in exchange for raising more taxes by eliminating corporate tax preferences, other deductions, or allowing the Bush-era tax cuts to expire. Republicans, meanwhile, indicated some flexibility on eliminating distasteful corporate tax subsidies—but also publicly clarified their position that such tinkering with the tax code shouldn't raise any new taxes. There's talk of a grand bargain in the air, but the gulf between the two parties has never been more clear.".

[somone]

1. "Peace In Our Time"

[Karmadillo]

2. Who is this guy?

nt

[Hamlette]

19. He writes for Huffington Post (like Brietbart) nuff said? n/t

[EFerrari]

26. San Stein is NOTHING like Breitbart.

Good grief.

[Hissyspit]

35. Sam Stein is a reliable paid reporter for HuffPo.

He can get things wrong like anyone could, but he is NOTHING like Andrew Breitbart.

[Karmadillo]

48. Actually, I was referring to Obama. I don't understand what he's thinking.

Sorry for the lack of clarity.

[senseandsensibility]

3. I am numb. The shock is gone, and I am no longer

capable of being outraged or feeling betrayed.

[DJ13]

4. Why does a Democrat want to be the one that begins dismantling the New Deal?

Thats a REPUBLICAN dream, let them do it, dont do it for them.

[PSPS]

17. Don't mistake Obama for a democrat

This theater is intended only to fool a few beyond the dwindling number of his hard core idolizers. He believes that social security should be cut. He believes in trickle-down. He's admitted publicly that he's a fan of Reagan.

[leftstreet]

20. A Republican could never get away with it

:-(

[woo me with science]

27. And this, I'm afraid, is the real answer. nt

[DJ13]

31. So its a repeat of Clinton

NAFTA, telecom deregulation, repealing Glass-Stegall, all the Republican ideas it took a "democrat" to sign into law?

Thats what I've been afraid of.

[OHdem10]

5. It was reported that the Republicans are willing to consider something

like the Biden Group plan. One and one-half million
in cuts, no taxes so far.

Since the Grand Bargain would help Obama and get
all this deficit talk off the table, INO, there
is no way the Republicans are going to support it.
They want to be able to beat Obama over the head
with budget matters in the campaign.

[sad sally]

11. Didn't sound like Biden was claiming it to even be a plan.

Biden, for his part, reminded the Republican attendees that the package they were now touting was one they had previously abandoned (both Cantor and Kyl walked away from the negotiating table when the talks turned to revenues). Besides that, he argued, it wasn't really a package at all, but rather a list of goals with blanks requiring filling.

[Palmer Eldritch]

6. That quote says nothing about cutting SS or Medicare benefits, does it?

[erodriguez]

7. Sorry I should have put this in the OP

According to multiple attendees, the discussion began with President Obama pressing, once more, for lawmakers to consider a "grand" bargain to end the debt ceiling debate, something that would combine $1 trillion in revenue raisers with $3 trillion in cuts, including reforms to Medicare and Medicaid and smaller tinkers to Social Security.

[LoZoccolo]

10. Strike two. n/t

[Renew Deal]

22. That doesn't say anything about cuts either.

Anything else? :shrug:

[dsc]

24. yes it does

the thirteenth word of the second line is cuts. And it clearly applies to the text after which has SS, Medicaid, and Medicare. Frankly SS shouldn't be mentioned here at all as it isn't the problem and only provider cuts should be mentioned for Medicaid or Medicare.

[Renew Deal]

46. No it doesn't.

"including reforms to Medicare and Medicaid and smaller tinkers to Social Security."

That doesn't say cuts to medicare, etc.

[dsc]

52. the cuts include reforms to etc

the word include means the cuts include those reforms making them cuts.

[EFerrari]

25. No, it doesn't say "anything", it talks about 3 trillion in cuts. nt

[Renew Deal]

47. But it doesn't say cuts to medicare, etc.

"including reforms to Medicare and Medicaid and smaller tinkers to Social Security."

[EFerrari]

54. That's absurd. n/t

[sabrina 1]

30. Why is Social Security part of this discussion at all? Do YOU

know?

[OHdem10]

40. If you are not planning to cut. get real. They would not discuss

them. If the programs are unsustainable as they all say,
then putting them on the table means--get out the carving knife.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[BillyJack]

8. If the Repubs want to do something SERIOUS about the deficit...end these ILLEGAL/IMMORAL "WARS"

Don't change the subject to Medicare and Social Security being THE DRAIN on society.....

These WARS and the unaccountable DOD are among the biggest f*ckin' DRAINS. (Tax cuts/tax 'WELFARE' for the already wealthy is the other one).

The only people who are getting ANY kind of ROI (Return On Investment) of these things are the elite few.....if THEY weren't getting any ROI, you could be SURE that they would be screaming louder than anyone else for it to stop.

But the elite don't want it to stop b/c they are making FORTUNES.
'

[Jack Sprat]

9. So the plan is to cut social security

payments and make people spend more for medical insurance with their smaller pension. All so the wealthy can keep more of what they have. I don't know how many wealthy people I see shopping day to day, but I'm pretty sure most of the shoppers are like me.

The next thing we may hear is that the deal includes a tax hike on only those making less than 20K a year. I'm getting hotter by the day over this stuff.

[rhett o rick]

12. Well we might as well get it out in the open. If you were hoping on change you were snookered.

You have two choices. The fast track to fascism or the slow track. Dont you feel free that you get the choice?
Until the public gets it and figures out they have been snookered, we will just have to wait.
A revolution is waiting.

[erodriguez]

18. I kind of agree with that sentiment. Things are bad.

But not bad enough for massive amounts of people to take to the streets. When people literally show up on the door steps of the politicians and business leaders, that is when there will be change.

[rhett o rick]

23. That's what I mean. The revolution is waiting. nm

[Marr]

37. That is when there'll be a police/National Guard crackdown.

After that happens for awhile, if people continue to show up and there's an implied threat in their presence, there may be change.

[ProfessionalLeftist]

13. "something that would combine $1 trillion in revenue raisers with $3 trillion in cuts"

... including reforms to Medicare and Medicaid and smaller tinkers to Social Security.

EXCUSE ME? WHY only $1 trillion in revenue raisers? Or WHY $3 trillion in cuts? :wtf:

[JDPriestly]

16. If Obama so much as meddles with Social Security and Medicare, I will not vote for him.

Millions of seniors will agree with me.

[woo me with science]

28. Yup. nt

[Starry Messenger]

14. Austerity, breakfast of champions.

Obviously the rich deserve more of our money. :sarcasm:

[girl gone mad]

15. Agreed.

[Renew Deal]

21. The quote you posted doesn't say he wants to cut anything.

But you say it.

[Octafish]

29. Put down the Reaganomics and do what needs to be done.

Hint: It isn't trickle down.

[Tom Rinaldo]

32. It's not shared sacrifice when some lives are put at risk while others

risk losing their personal yahts. The wealthy rarely understand true poverty. It is unfathonable to them how $50 a month can make any real difference in anyones life.

They never run out of food five days before they can get more money to buy more. They don't worry about not making the rent, and being thrown on the street as a result. There is always plenty of money to fill up the gas tank and they never have to take 3 buses to get to an emergency room for a sudden unexplained illness.

People already fall to their death with the safety net the way it is now. Democrats have always known that is unacceptable in a nation of abundent resourses and lavish displays of wealth. Democrats have always worked, sometimes sucessfully sometimes not, to make the holes in that safety net smaller because they know they are already lethally large. Democrats have never agreed to make those holes larger.

[erodriguez]

34. +1

One of the biggest problems is that most of our national leaders are rich. They do not represent the 90+% of people who aren't.

[Tx4obama]

33. Unrec. There is NO quote from Obama that says he wants to cut.

Why are folks still trying to push misinformation about what Obama has or has not said!

[erodriguez]

36. I'm sorry I must be misinformed.

Even though most news organizations are reporting that medicare and ss cuts are part of the Grand Bargain as coming from white house sources.

Since there is no direct quote from the Pres. it cannot be true.


That argument reminds me of the GOP's insistence that global warming is not caused by man even though the vast majority of scientists say otherwise.


You are correct. There are no Obama quotes. Just like there is no quote from the almighty that CO2 is bad for the environment.


However, reporters with the inside ear are the experts in hearing what white house officials have stated obama has said. I choose to listen to the experts.

[Tx4obama]

38. There is a huge difference between finding saving and making cuts.

No one, including White House sources have said that benefit will be cut.

The only place that rumor started was in the Washington Post article, which the White House has fired back at.

It is a fact that there is no evidence that President Obama would ever sign a bill which would end up cutting benefits.

[EFerrari]

39. Well done. n/t

[girl_interrupted]

41. You're not. And there was "no quote" from Obama about extending tax cuts

for the rich either, but he did anyway. Given some of the quotes from Obama, that he has backtracked on anyway, I doubt at this point it matters.

What does matter, is what he does and right now a lot of people are very pissed off, like Labor: " Labor angered by Obama's willingness to cut Social Security in debt ceiling deal"
http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/170557-labor-angered-by-obamas-willingness-to-cut-social-security

Like the Democratic caucus, that is saying loud and clear they will NOT support cuts and they are "reminding" the President of that fact: "House Democrats: No dice on Medicare, Social Security cuts" http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/07/08/congress.entitlements/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Really good article about it here: "How Obama deal on debt could hurt Democrats in 2012" http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/07/08/gergen.debt.negotiations/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Why Obama would even mention SS or Medicare or Medicaid in conjunction with the Deficit talks, is mind boggling to begin with. One has nothing to do with the other.

What makes me nervous is the thought of him slipping the notion of a Chained CPI, by, because it's a cut no matter how you look at it.

So I think it's very important that people make a lot of noise about their displeasure, so he can hear it.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[roomfullofmirrors]

44. sustaining the government is more important than sustaining the people to quite a few people in D.C.

That means raiding social security and medicare revenue to pay for the government. social security/medicare/FICA are necessarily becoming extensions of the income tax in order to make up for revenue shortfalls that have resulted from prolonged warfare, prolonged tax cuts for the wealthy, outsourcing of millions of jobs, automation, budget deficits, debt, debt deflation, etc. Our grandfathers and grandmothers waged WW2. That was their sacrifice. It appears that this will be ours.

[Whisp]

49. I think people are flipping out at 'change' in SS and Medicare

not necessarily cuts in the way they think.
because behemoth systems like that are filled with mismanagement and just the fact that the antiquated system of paper records being transferred to digital is a huge deal.

but we will see. people love to flap their wings and gums

[BillyJack]

50. Behemoth systems like the DOD are filled with mismanagement

and just the fact that the antiquated system of paper records being transferred to digital is a huge deal.

Let's START with the DOD instead of SS and Medicare, that okay with you?

[Hydra]

53. And the Bush Tax cuts extention and Romneycare were an aberration, yes? n/t

[piratefish08]

51. FUCK this shit!

but let's quadruple our re-election efforts!!



is this where we are now?