Is "Conscious Capitalism" just a scam or do you find John Mackey credible?

[Bonobo]

Does anyone know about this "Conscious Capitalism" thing being pushed by John Mackey?

It seems like a scam to me to polish his image but it looks like it is selling with the more credulous "Forbes" type of "Democrats" out there.

Essentially, Mackey and his ilk are trying to convince people that there is no need to regulate corporations because corporations can just regulate themselves by getting in touch with their "good side".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYJl3DOMGM8

[CBGLuthier]

1. Compassionate Conservatism Redux

Meaningless labels.

[Bonobo]

3. Isn't it incredible how some people can get taken in by that foolishness? nt

[Odin2005]

2. Scam.

Corporations are required by law to ONLY care about maximizing shareholder profits.

[Bonobo]

4. You don't think they will just "give up profits" like some people suggest they might?

I mean, I'm pretty sure I've seen people, even here, advocating for this idea in lieu of any kind of regulations over unbridled greed.

[alcibiades_mystery]

9. Indeed...a few years ago when "microlending" was all the capitalist rage

I was not alone in noting that this entire movement would end up as some additional vector of predatory lending. It only took a few years for that to come out.

This entire farce is epitomized in the Three Cups of Tea phenomenon: celebrated as the next new thing by Western liberals, it turns out to be a giant scam. No surprises: capitalism is social catastrophe by definition. There is no "good" version.

[Odin2005]

10. I was always skeptical of microlending.

When I first heard about it, it sounded like payday loans for poor 3rd World folks, and I was right.

There is no suck thing as "socially conscious Capitalism", it's a marketing ploy to appeal to Upper-Middle Class Latte Liberals.

[marmar]

5. It's all PR......the "conscience" will go poof when it adversely affects the earnings statement.

nt

[Bonobo]

7. So you think it's just image management, right?

Amazing that such an obviously puerile concept could be swallowed so completely by some of the gullible people out there...

[TheKentuckian]

6. Pure nonsense and weak ass neoliberal rhetoric to avoid responsible regulation

that doubles down on Lassiez Fare principles with some old silly bullshit that depends on the greediest fucks in history to police themselves for the common good working from a system based on greed and naked avarice.

Capitalist are most conscience with a gun to their head and their funds on a cart, ready to be rolled out at the first sign of malfeasance.

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. See an awesome RSA Animate of Zizek on charity

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpAMbpQ8J7g

Wonderful!

[OneGrassRoot]

28. Thanks, love their stuff...love this one, too!

:thumbsup:

He brings up some great points, many of which have been debated here over and over again. Charity versus justice....how to alleviate suffering while simultaneously changing the systems which create the suffering to begin with.

[Octafish]

11. Trust us, we're not going to steal your (FILL IN BLANK) any more.

The BLANK being labor, money, homes, ideas, property, stocks, bonds, and anything else of value we haven't yet stolen by Republicons and their partners in crime, "Forbes Democrats."

The "Conscious Capitalism" is a very nice rebranding, though. Almost looks econo-friendly. Top flight, big money types back the concept.

Reminds me of Boulwarism -- the idea that corporations can be trusted to do right voluntarily -- by another name, "conscious capitalism".

Lemuel Boulware was the General Electric mastermind who helped convert Ronald Reagan from FDR Democrat to Barry Goldwater repuglian.

Of course, “Pro-Capital” means anti-union. And anti-union is fascist.

[hatrack]

12. Mr. Mackey has apparently been asleep for the past four years

I have nothing against people with narcolepsy, but don't necessarily want them flying airliners, performing surgery or providing economic advice.

[Javaman]

32. LOL best answer yet! nt

[hobbit709]

13. John Mackey was an ass long before Whole Paycheck.

He's gotten more arrogant since but not any better of a person.

[Javaman]

33. +1 nt

[Bonobo]

14. Why do some dudes have to unrec this? nt

[hobbit709]

15. Because the unrec trolls are everywhere.

[Octafish]

19. It's weird. I recced it to "+2" before I commented.

By the time I'd posted my reply, it was at "0."

Why wouldn't anyone like people discussing this subject?

[Bluenorthwest]

30. It is not the subject itself, but the man and market wrapped in it

that gets the neg reccs. The man is anti Union and to me, a huge right winger. Do not like his markets, and really do not like him. As general rule, I do not like promoting Union Bashers.

[JVS]

16. Fuck him and fuck it.

[NC_Nurse]

17. more bullshit from the horse's ass

[LoZoccolo]

18. I think it's naive, but I'd rather work for John Mackey

that some of the other supermarket owners. As you know, I'm a big fan of Whole Foods and I've known one cashier who'd worked there for ten years.

[Bonobo]

20. They are very anti-union. Here's a link for you.

http://michaelbluejay.com/misc/wholefoods.html

[hobbit709]

21. good for you. sarcasm intended.

I wouldn't work for that ass no matter how much he paid me.
He was an ass when he had Safer Way and he's a bigger ass now.

[Ichingcarpenter]

25. Whole Foods Parking Lot - Music Video

Verse 3

This Busters on his iPhone talking to his friends,
Picking up some cayenne pepper for his master cleanse.
You're the most annoying dude I've ever SEEN brah...
Could you PLEASE move? You're RIGHT in front of the Quinoa.

Damn, I'm about to check out.
Pay my 80 bucks for 6 things and get the heck out.
The express lane is moving hella slow...
Man, these fools don't know... that shit is getting REAL....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFc1pr2yUU&feature=player_embedded

[Javaman]

34. I have several friends that work at whole foods...

I live in Austin and have watched that company go from a nice cool interesting alternative food store, to a bloated anti-union behemoth.

mackey is anti-union and anti-worker. I have stories.

their executive board is now full of ex-walmarters.

they are turning the walmart of "food".

[EC]

22. Right....

That'll be the day...greed IS considered their good side to them.

[Bonobo]

23. But some people believe yhey would "self-regulate".

What kind of stooge would believe that?

[Bluenorthwest]

24. His markets stink, the service is rotten, the marketing is

exploitative, the owner is anti-Union and a raving right winger. I would not so much as buy a can of soda from Whole Foods, and my city rejected them when they came begging to open here. We have better markets locally owned.

[OneGrassRoot]

26. Any good examples of "conscious commerce" rather than capitalism?

It seems to me that any time one or even a few people control resources and decisions -- and thus the wealth -- greed takes over. Of course, we know modern corporations are legally bound to create profit at any (legal, though perhaps not ethical) cost for their shareholders.

This is why, to me, the only really viable alternative is worker-owned co-ops. Truly democratic frameworks where business is conducted.

There can be templates (like a "franchise" approach, since there's no need to reinvent the wheel) for different businesses that can be replicated locally at a grassroots level, but it's owned locally by members of the community, with a setup such that management doesn't earn more than x amount that of the lowest-paid employee. That shouldn't discourage hard work; just the opposite, because then everyone benefits from the venture's success, not a mere few.

And, in a perfect world, the worker-owned co-ops would be ventures which themselves are mindful of creating no harm and adding benefit to the world. Not creating the next widget just for the sake of creating widgets and creating jobs.

The whole concept of "commerce" needs to be revamped in today's world, imho.

[yella_dawg]

27. Corporations are by law sociopathic.

What an idiot.

[Starry Messenger]

29. Petty bourgeois pablum

It's a stroke-fest so they can tell each other how wonderful they are, so enlightened, while they do the tasks that capitalists always do. I guess the prole is supposed to feel better about being exploited if it is at the hands of someone wearing a hemp turtleneck. aka Jerry Rubin Revisited. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Rubin

[Javaman]

31. Let's make one thing clear, wacky mackey is not a Democrat

He's a libertarian and has said so.

And on edit: whole foods board is staffed by former wal-mart execs.

this is just more bullshit buffoonery by wacky mackey.

[Chimichurri]

35. This a right wing Free-Marketeer in new packaging. Like changing High Fructose

Corn Syrup to Corn Sugar. Same poison, different name.

[dissidentboomer]

36. Shopped at one in Dallas

for several months and realized that I was paying quite a bit more for produce that is only marginally fresher and, in some cases, not any safer with very questionable "organic" credentials. The dude is just another cynical, fake hippie turned into predatory slime. My guess is that he doesn't really believe that folks are "responsible" without regulation and rules. Cynically, he preys on the naive, poorly educated American to get his big slice of the pie. Epidemic, isn't it?

As Billy Joel once wrote, "Have you heard about the new fashion, honey? All you need are looks and a whole lot of money."

Look, I'm a slow learner but what I've finally figured out after 54 years on the planet is that libertarian philosophy flies directly into the face of human nature. People aren't EVIL by nature but they are selfish and greedy and, left to their own devices without someone looking out for all the other kids on the play ground, they will steal toys and hurt one another and themselves. Most republicans and ALL libertarians either have not figured that out or cynically sell philosophical lies for their own benefit. That much I'm sure of....

[blindpig]

37. Complete crap.

Mackey is a complete asshole

k&r

[Starry Messenger]

38. k

[working for good]

39. The Case for Conscious Capitalism

I appreciate your question Bonobo "Does anyone know about this "Conscious Capitalism" thing being pushed by John Mackey?" and your related underlying questions.

I have been actively involved in the Conscious Capitalism "movement" for the past five years and have spent many hours in meetings, retreats, conferences and conversations with John and others about Conscious Capitalism, visited companies including The Container Store and Patagonia (exemplary CC companies. We have spoken with countless CEOs, thought leaders, entrepreneurs and activists who are actively exploring and experimenting at the edges of the convergence of Conscious Awareness and Capitalism, at the intersection of individual and collective human learning, growth and development and, perhaps, at the edge of human evolution.

While our perspectives (yours, mine and everyone's) by our social and economic conditions, cultural conditioning, personal experience and biases,and underlying biological constitution (among other things), I observe John to be a deeply dedicated human being (as are many others involved with Conscious Capitalism), open to learning and growing, admitting mistakes, and passionately pursuing ongoing improvement and ever-increasing alignment between ideals and action. John care deeply about the well-being of all living beings and about the condition of the Earth. Yes, he is a libertarian, but that is a perspective that evolved for him over time, as he recognized that freedom and voluntary exchange served individuals and humanity better than other approaches to social organization. He is an outspoken critic of crony capitalism and rent seeking. And he has done as much as anyone I have encountered or heard of for advancing sane, sustainable agriculture and aquaculture, humane treatment of animals, and the transformation of business to a more conscious form.

I encourage people to visit consciouscapitalism.org and to explore the intentions and actions of people and companies at the forefront of this emerging movement. And for the sake of all of us, add your voice to the process, so the movement can learn and evolve.

I appreciate this forum and thank you for the opportunity to respond to your question. Will be happy to say more if anyone is interested.

Jeff

[Bonobo]

40. even if I were to assume that HIS motives are good and pure...

Surely you must admit that others are not so, and without some form of regulation codifying these principles you say he supports, very few fat-cat CEO's would get behind them.

Can you address that?

[working for good]

42. Reply

Thank you Bonobo. Very good point. I will respond in more detail tomorrow or Wednesday. Calling it a night now, and traveling tomorrow.

[working for good]

43. Reply to your question on Conscious Capitalism

Hello again Bonobo.

A few things come to mind. I remember being in 6th grade (many years ago), when a few people acted out and the teacher could not determine who it was, she punished the whole class - lights out, heads down or something similar. So, none of us were learning or doing something constructive, unless learning that everyone loses (and are punished) if a few people are out of line. Not sure this analogy transfers well to this context, but you get the point.

Regulation is clearly not inhibiting greed or abuse among CEOs or among others in certain industries or sectors (such as much of Wall Street). Rather, the regulations punish the honest, reasonable, value-creating CEOs and companies.

Rather than trying to inhibit very strong destructive forces (which seemingly always find a way to wreak havoc), why not focus attention and resources on fostering those forces (like companies, non-profits and their leaders who truly care and who are innovating, generating value for society, and addressing significant social issues)? How about reducing the heavy tax burden on small businesses - the engines of economic growth, innovation and job creation?

You get the idea.

I encourage you to visit www.consciouscapitalism.org and welcome the opportunity to continue the conversation. You can also visit my web site, www.workingforgood.com

Thank you Bonobo,

Jeff

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lord_Proprietor]

44. "Conscious Capitalism thing being pushed by John Mackey"

- Whatever it is, it seems to have worked for him. Our family's ladies certain like his stores. Interesting item.


"Political views
Libertarian

In a debate in Reason magazine among Mackey, Milton Friedman, and T. J. Rodgers, Mackey said that he is a free market libertarian. He said that he used to be a "democratic socialist" in college. As a beginning businessman, he was challenged by workers of not paying them enough and customers of charging too high prices, at a time when he was hardly making enough to continue. He began to take a more capitalistic worldview, and discovered the works of Ludwig von Mises, Friedrich Hayek and Friedman. Mackey is an admirer of author Ayn Rand.

Mackey co-founded the organization, Freedom Lights Our World (FLOW, to combine his commitments to "economic and political freedom as well as personal growth, social responsibility, and environmental stewardship." He supports such changes as green tax shifts, environmental trusts, world legal systems to allow the poor to create legal businesses, and a citizen's dividend to help the poor in the developed world."....

http://www.answers.com/topic/john-mackey-businessman#Political_views