What do you take away from the Presidents statement of...

[Javaman]

"trimming benefits"? (I think we can all agree that this entails trimming SS and/or Medicare).

(mods, if you think this is flame-bait, I humbly apologize)

[robinlynne]

1. I don't know what to do. I am disgusted. We need another candidate.

[ladjf]

47. I agree. But, the only way another Dem could win would be for

Obama to step down and he is way to egotistical to do that. He's having the time of his life pretending that he is the Democratic President.

[Ozymanithrax]

2. More proof that he intends to cut benefits to the elderly, poor, disabled, and children...

In fairness, I am sure his cuts might entail the rich forgoing one or two tins of caviar in a year.

We savaged Bush for calling for privatization and cuts for Social Security. We should treat President Obama as gently as we treated Bush.

[stranger81]

5. But it's not "slashing"-- It's only "trimming"!

:puke:

[sad sally]

22. Not a buzz cut, but your ears will be showing all the way.

[Liberalynn]

10. Nothings happening to the "rich"

he said he is "not raising taxes." He's just closing the loopholes which is just the manure he is trying to spread to keep up the pretense that this is "a ahared sacrafice."

[fivepennies]

13. If he actually DID

close the loopholes it would be a major improvement. Now whether or not he WILL get them closed, any more than he got Gitmo closed, is highly unlikely.

[Ozymanithrax]

15. Republicans are on record as saying that ending loopholes must be ballanced...

with tax cuts. They have said a resound no to raising revenue.

[ladjf]

48. That would be a pointless, circular move. nt

[sad sally]

28. "Recession has been hard on everybody" Really?

Obama: "This recession has been hard on everybody, but it's harder on folks who've got less," adding that he is "obsessed" with all the families in the county who are doing the right thing every day and feel like "they're falling behind no matter how hard they work."

The startling facts below are that the numbers for the wealthy are known, for poor the numbers are harder to gather. Is this more evidence that if you're poor in America you're invisible?


What recession? The millionaire population jumped in the U.S. by 8% last year, fueled by the stock market recovery, according to an industry report on Wednesday.

The number of U.S. households worth at least $1 million rose to 8.4 million in 2010, compared to 7.8 million the prior year, according to a report by Spectrem Group.

The affluent market grew in 2010 due primarily to the stock market rebound, but despite their growing portfolios, attitudes remain significantly different than in 2007," the report said.

http://yourjewishnews.com/4654.aspx?du

I remarked some time ago that we didn’t know how many poor people there were in the U.S. We still don’t because the Census Bureau is still working on a measure that would take account of many factors the official measure ignores.

Looking only at the alternative thresholds, the share of the population in poverty seems higher than the official 14.3% rate the Bureau reported in September. Hence a high-end estimate of poor people so much greater than the official 43.6 million.

http://www.povertyinsights.org/2011/01/25/new-angles-on-how-many-poor-people-there-are-in-the-u-s/?du

[woo me with science]

63. Great post. nt

[Laf.La.Dem.]

3. I will wait and see what happens

BUT - I can not picture myself voting for ANY Republican!!!

[Morning Dew]

4. If it does mean SS and Medicare, he's lost my vote.

[RebelOne]

7. Same here. I am collecting SS and am on Medicare.

If any of those benefits are slashed, he definitely has lost my vote.

[Morning Dew]

12. I'm only 54 but my folks are on SS and Medicare.

I guess SS and Medicare are sacred cows to me - if they're cut, it's doubtful that there is anything he could do to regain my vote.

[mike_c]

6. to those who "will stand by him..."

...did you stand by Bush as well when he wanted to privatize social security? Do you believe in ANY democratic principles at all, or is it all about personality cults?

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[woo me with science]

9. I don't vote for Republicans in Democrat suits. nt

[slay]

41. Exactly

and that IS what Obama is - just look at his policies!!! I can't believe others don't see it too.

[krabigirl]

11. Of course, he wouldn't think of cutting the six wars, cut back the dea, DHS, TSA, etc

If he did that, and there still wasn't enough money? Ok then, I would at least give him the benefit of the doubt..but we aren't even close to that. He and congress are giving more money to the homeland security state and the war effort, so it is immoral IMO to cut benefits. No, I won't vote for him, but not because of this, I gave up long time ago.

[Beam Me Up]

25. ^^ E X A C T L Y n/t

[Kaleko]

37. Obama willing to sacrifice the social support system

at the altar of Wall Street and the war machine is treason IMO. And even if it doesn't meet the legal definition of treason, it is the ultimate betrayal of the people he is sworn to serve and protect.


"Disgusted" doesn't begin to describe what I feel about his efforts.

[ladjf]

49. Among other things, he seems to be as dumb as a rock. nt

[gkhouston]

53. Yes, why aren't we hearing more about those being on the table.

Apparently some things are more disposable than others.

[1StrongBlackMan]

14. I have to admit ...

I have not been following this issue very closely; but does anyone have a link to President Obama saying that he is open to "trimming benefits", (not a pundit/blogger reporting hios/her interpretation of what they thought they heard the President say) or better a transcript.

I think that would advance the discussion.

[Javaman]

18. Here...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1465384

Look at time 11:32.

[1StrongBlackMan]

32. I thought I specifically requested ...

a link to what he actually said; not a interpretation of what a blogger thought s/he said.

I'm pretty certain that if President Obama had actually said, "I'm open to TRIMMING SS", as opposed to what I have heard him say - time and time again - that SS needs to be "STRENGTHENED", there would be an actual transcript or video.

Now I'm certain that any one of us could think of several ways to strengthen SS without cutting benefits. So why are folks stuck on, "His gonna cut SS benefits?"

[sabrina 1]

39. Why is SS even part of these discussions???

SS did not contribute one bit to the creation of the debt did it? The huge economic problems this government has were NOT created by the American people.

They were created by the wasteful and wrong WARS

By the Economic Meltdown cause by corrupt Bankers who have yet to be held accountable.

They were caused by Bush Tax Cuts meant to create jobs which never happened, but cost this country another 2 trillion in revenues and continue to run up that bill.


So, explain please, since the SS Trust Fund has been used as a slush fund to finance all these hobbies, but certainly did NOTHING to create the debt, WHY are the words 'Social Security' even mentioned in these discussions??

Unless, and this is what most people are beginning to believe, they want to replenish the Trust Fund by cutting/slashing/trimming/strenghtening, use whatever word works best to hide the facts, so that they can again borrow from it! And what will that do?? RAISE the debt even more.

Again, explain to us why SS is part of this discussion other than to use that huge fund to bail themselves out yet again, and to deceive the American People one more time?

[1StrongBlackMan]

54. Would you be opposed to ...

the payroll tax being lifted on S.S.? That would be an example of strengthening S.S. without the cutting of benefits. What about reducing the amount the wealthy can collect under S.S.? This would strenthen the program WITH benefit cuts, that would not cause much heartburn for those dependant on S.S.

There are a hundred different permeations of strategies that could strengthen S.S. without hurting those that depend on it.

[sabrina 1]

59. Yes, of course, and the SS program will always need some

adjustments. But again, why is it mixed in with talk of 'debt ceilings' and 'deficits' and 'debt'. That leads people to believe that it is some way, as Republicans falsely claim, responsible for the economic disaster we are dealing with.

It is a completely separate issue, why confuse people by tying it erroneously to these issues?

[1StrongBlackMan]

60. Yes??? Really???

You would oppose lifting the Payroll Cap? You would oppose establishing a upward limit of collecting SS (Okay, I can understand the "that would make SS a 'welfare' program" argument), but still.

The people that are led to believe republican claims will believe them regardless.

Why tie this to the debt ceiling argument? Well, it's called positioning. By doing so, President Obama can introduce just about anything to reform SS, something that WILL have to be done sometime; but without even entertaining the thought of cutting benefits, and win the "I'm attempting to strengthen SS" and "I'm being reasonable but you are not" arguments.

I know many of us on the left hate to acknowledge the power of a crisis, probably because we're suffering 40 years of ptsd, where the crisis did us. President Obama has put the shoe on our foot ... But we just can't believe it.

[sabrina 1]

62. I don't know what you are talking about frankly.

I am FOR raising the cap on SS, I thought I made that clear.

SS has nothing to do with these issues currently under discussion and should be kept completely separate from them. Combining them is a deliberate attempt to mislead the public, althought it is not working, into believing that SS had something to do with creating the debt, deficit, raising the ceiling etc. etc.

What should be talked about in these discussions and which did contribute to the deficit, are the wars, the Pentagon budget and the Bush tax cuts.

[sad sally]

43. Specifically, here's the full transcript. Strengthening thru shared sacrifices.

http://www.shallownation.com/2011/07/11/obama-press-conference-video-july-11-2011-presidential-news-conference-on-the-debt-ceiling/?du

What I emphasized to the broader group of congressional leaders yesterday is now is the time to deal with these issues. If not now, when? I’ve been hearing from my Republican friends for quite some time that it is a moral imperative for us to tackle our debt and our deficits in a serious way. I’ve been hearing from them that this is one of the things that’s creating uncertainty and holding back investment on the part of the business community. And so what I’ve said to them is, let’s go. And it is possible for us to construct a package that would be balanced, would share sacrifice, would involve both parties taking on their sacred cows, would involved some meaningful changes to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid that would preserve the integrity of the programs and keep our sacred trust with our seniors, but make sure those programs were there for not just this generation but for the next generation; that it is possible for us to bring in revenues in a way that does not impede our current recovery, but is fair and balanced.

We have agreed to a series of spending cuts that will make the government leaner, meaner, more effective, more efficient, and give taxpayers a greater bang for their buck. That includes defense spending. That includes health spending. It includes some programs that I like very much, and we — be nice to have, but that we can’t afford right now.

[1StrongBlackMan]

55. Okay ...

I guess one could construe that as saying President Obama is proposing cuts to S.S. ... If one tries really, really hard and wants to believe that in the first place.

Again, removing the salary cap, or imposing a cap under which one could collect S.S. would, both. be "meaningful changes to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid that would preserve the integrity of the programs and keep our sacred trust with our seniors, but make sure those programs were there for not just this generation but for the next generation." Dontchathink?

[sad sally]

57. I do think raising the salary cap would be a great idea, and candidate Obama

during an interview with FOX in April of 2008 said just that. But if you check out his changed position in April 2011 (below), doesn't it beg to ask what happened? Why was this a good idea in 2008 but a bad idea now? There's no explanation, which makes me, as I've been referred to as, paranoid. I want to trust him, but we cannot know right now whether the steadfastness of Obama’s rhetoric in defending core liberal and Democratic ideals will be matched by equal resoluteness in practice when the battles heat up and the temptation to make deals and jettison core priorities intensifies.

http://www.ontheissues.org/economic/barack_obama_social_security.htm?du

Raise cap on payroll tax for 3% of earners over $102,000

Q: The Republicans are keeping a running total of all your plans. They say it’s $662 billion over four years.
A: Right.
Q: They say for all your promises not to raise taxes on the middle class, that, in fact, you want to raise the cap on the Social Security payroll tax, and you also want to increase capital gains.
A: In terms of raising the cap on the payroll tax, right now everybody who’s making $102,000 or less pays 100% of payroll tax on 100% of their income. There are about 3% to 4% of Americans who are above $102,000 in income every year. So if you want to talk about who’s middle class, me giving cuts to folks making $60,000 or $70,000, and potentially asking more from friends of mine like Warren Buffett. That’s a debate I’m happy to have with John McCain, because it’s the people making $75,000, $50,000, $60,000 who are hurting.
Source: 2008 Fox News interview: presidential series Apr 27, 2008

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/19/usa-obama-socialsecurity-idUSN19806820110419?du
Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:42pm EDT

* Neither party eager to tackle Social Security

* Obama says tweaks can sustain program

By Kim Dixon

WASHINGTON, April 19 (Reuters) - U.S. President Barack Obama on Tuesday backed boosting the amount of individual income subject to Social Security taxes, one of the first concrete proposals he has endorsed to put the retirement program on a stronger fiscal footing.

The president's deficit commission late last year proposed raising the income cap on Social Security taxes, now at about $107,000, but Obama has shied away from supporting specific proposals.

-snip

Obama noted that Social Security has not been a driver of budget deficits, though the program will be unable to pay out full benefits to retirees in a few decades. For that reason he said "tweaks" are needed to stabilize the program's finances.

-snip

After hesitating to take hard positions in recent months, Obama last week laid out a strategy to cut the budget deficit by $4 trillion over 12 years, drawing a stark, ideological contrast with a plan pitched by Republican U.S. Representative Paul Ryan.

Obama's blueprint, though, did not back boosting the Social Security income cap, but recommended bipartisan talks to address the program's long-term challenges.

[1StrongBlackMan]

61. I think that ...

you'll agree that we don't know what the deal/negotiating points offered are; but we do know this fight has been brewing since the ("catfood") Commission reported out (but was unable to reach an argument.

Now, knowing a fight is coming (because the republicans tried the act before and are oh so predictable) why shoot our load before the battle starts?

[JuniperLea]

16. So many people want it their way or the highway...

It would be disastrous for any one political party to be in complete control and to push everything through to further their own agenda. We watched this disaster unfold during the BushCo administration, yet here we are with people actually calling for Dem and Dem only policies... no give and take, not meeting in the middle... nothing. My way or the highway.

That stopped working for me long about kindergarten, how about you?

[gkhouston]

19. Oh, absolutely. So when the ax murderer breaks into my house,

I'll be sure to let him have at least one member of my family. I wouldn't want to be unreasonable enough to insist he/she not destroy someone's life.

[JuniperLea]

21. Yeah, because those two situations are exactly the same...

:banghead:

[gkhouston]

24. Oh, I forgot. Medicaid, Medicare, and Social Security are such

incredibly generous programs that people are becoming obscenely rich on them and will be completely unharmed by a change in their benefits.

[JuniperLea]

27. Yeah! Just like axe murderers!

Please just stop.

[gkhouston]

34. Hey. You go right on apologizing for policy changes that are likely

to lead to people going hungry or losing their housing or healthcare. Not all axes are physical, but they're still deadly, and I'm not going to pretend the blade isn't sharp just because the President's says bipartisanship is a good idea. Not everything is or should be up for grabs.

[JuniperLea]

51. You are spinning so fast and hating so hard...

You don't know what you are talking about with whom.

[Autumn]

42. Those god damn welfare queens have just

got to be gotten rid of. So Reagan. What's that in my ear? Why the rain is warm and yellow. And those uneducated idiots that chose to work in those silly jobs like construction,mechanics, any of those jobs that involve manual labor can just work till they are 67 or 70. Who cares if they can't get a job or their bodies are worn out. Too much sucking at the government teat.







:sarcasm:

[canoeist52]

44. yep, they're the same - you don't negotiate with ax murderers

This agenda WILL end up killing people. (the pen and the sword and all that)

[JuniperLea]

52. Nothing has been done yet...

But don't let that stop you...

[TheKentuckian]

23. When one party is ideologically bankrupt and is solely focused on stupid wars

and funneling all resource control to the wealthy then they should be ignored until they have some evolution in thinking.

You have a tough row to hoe if you are going to sell us on including failed and toxic Republican policies.

Bush wasn't a disaster because of one party rule but due to the complete idiocy of the one party's policies.

Bad policy should be excluded, we cannot help that severely limits what can be accepted from the opposition.
The fuckers need to be disbanded rather than treated as a partner in governing.

You also ignore that we'd need a shit ton of take before the middle would be in eyeshot. The failed right wing ideology has been running the show for decades and the half way point between what they want and Democratic policy is fucking evil and crazy, we just aren't enough of a polar opposite to drag them to reasonable by splitting the difference.

If you think their policies are salvageable or God forbid sensible then they welcome new members, particularly old white folks or sell out token Uncle Ruckus types.

[Doctor_J]

33. Have you checked the name of this web site?

just asking

:shrug:

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

17. Just another attempt to tell the public that they're going to screw us for our own good.

Later will come "mistakes were made" and "who could have foreseen".

[sad sally]

35. Thank you Tierra_y_Liberated!

Jump first, ask questions later. Oh, it was over a ledge into a cactus patch...too bad - shades of the ongoing illegal Iraq War.

[robcon]

20. DU is not a bellwether for Democrats. DU was overwhelmingly for Kucinich in 2008.

Obama can safely ignore the majority of DUers, IMO. They'll end up voting for Obama, rather than the Repuglican.

[gkhouston]

26. I don't recall that DU was overwhelmingly for Kucinich in '08.

He was popular here with some folks, but many, perhaps most, didn't consider him electable.

[robcon]

58. Always, as I recall, #1, and usually above 35% - at least once 40% of DUers. more than

In most DU polls during 2008, Kucinich was #1, Obama #2, and until his campaign exploded, Edwards #3 and then Clinton #4.

[Shagbark Hickory]

30. Agreed. We're just effing ret**ds anyway. nm

[Shagbark Hickory]

29. I'd love to see this poll repeated in 1 year.

Set your alarm clock to repost it please. I want to see how many people even remember this.

[Cleita]

31. Somebody on a morning radio program said he was

trying to get the independent vote, however, if he loses the progressive vote he will lose.

[uppityperson]

36. Are you asking if I'd wait for details before deciding whether or not to vote for him?

If so, of course. Talk is cheap, let's see what happens and respond then. Of course this does not mean continue to give all elected officials our input.

[Autumn]

38. I am appealed that SS was even put on the table.

I read where 5 sources said he had offered to raise the age limit for Medicare. I know if I don't vote for him what will happen, But damn, the thought of the next 4 years of the pukes saying jump and him asking how high just sickens me. I'm sick of his wars and the fact that he doesn't consider them to be part of our financial problems. I'm really sick of his "shared sacrifice" BS when it isn't a shared sacrifice.

[slay]

40. How much slack can we give this guy?

he lost me - and my vote - a long time ago - don't know why others think he's going to do anything other than continuing to screw us like he has for the last 3 years. ugh.

[Rex]

45. Hmm,,,do I bash the crap out of Obama or praise him blindly as we

all fall into oblivion? Neither, my cats want some attention and that seems more important for some reason. Mind control.

[JoePhilly]

46. Can you provide the quote where he agrees to "trim" SS benefits.

I can't find it.

unrec for false framing.

[KaryninMiami]

50. I support President Obama and I still believe in him and will work for him in 2012.

He's not perfect and there have been and will continue to be issues that have been disappointing. But I still believe that he is the best person for the job and is dealing with are unbelievable challenges which need to be taken into account.

Am I happy that he put the big 3 on the table? Not at all Do I believe that this part of his tactic so that he can use amendment 14 to push through the debt ceiling (after reminding the country that there was no choice- that he tried everything and could not get the GOP to budge- and after not compromising on ending the Bush tax breaks for millionaires.

[dissidentboomer]

56. Hey! We are morally bankrupt! The rest of you should immediately revolt.

[Motown_Johnny]

64. "Trim" will soon be included as a benefit

You know.... a "program" with benefits.