Is this triangulation? Or pacifying us before the rug gets pulled?

[sad sally]

triangulation:
The act of a political candidate presenting his or her views as being above and between the left and right sides of the political spectrum. It’s sometimes called the “third way.”

11:43: Obama says he has spoken extensively to business leaders about the debt ceiling/deficit. He says "in the abstract" they want a deal on this issue — including revenues. He says they don't want to weigh in publicly because they have business pending before Congress and "they don't want to make Congress mad."

11:38: Obama endorses a payroll tax cut as part of a deal.

11:37: Obama says his preference is to provide aid "across the board," but everything I do "has to go through the House of Representatives."

11:36: Obama: "I will not accept a deal...in which I am allowed to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars in additional income that I don't need."

11:34: "I'm willing to move in their direction in order to get something done."

11:34: Obama suggesting Social Security spending cuts would be funneled back in to Social Security trust fund, not deficit reduction

11:33: Obama: "Social Security is not the source of our deficit problems."

11:33: "We're gonna have a sales job...It is hard to convince people to do hard things."

11:32: Obama specifically mentioned "trimming" entitlement benefits.

11:30: Obama: "Medicare will run out of money...it's not an option for us to just sit by and do nothing."
Obama to progressives: We have "obligation" to make entitlements sustainable.

11:29: Boehner just released a statement. Says he told Laura Ingraham today that “Tax Hikes Never Had a Place in This Discussion & Never Will”

11:27: Obama: "I'd rather be talking about ... new programs or the NFL season getting resolved. Unfortunately, this is what's on our plate."

11:26: Obama says public not following the debt ceiling talks.
"They shouldn't." "We're paid to worry about it."

11:25: "If Speaker Boehner and Mitch McConnell are sincere about not wanting the U.S. to default, they're going to have to make some compromises," in order for a deal to pass Congress.

11:24: Obama: "I have bent over backwards" so Republicans don't have to increase taxes.

11:23: Obama says "no one is looking to raise taxes right now." Only proposition is to raise taxes beginning in 2013.

11:17: On making a deal: "I think it would give the American people enormous confidence that this town could do something good once in a while."

11:16: It is possible to construct a package that involves shared sacrifice, changes to medicare and medicaid to preserve programs for the future.

Also says a deal can bring in revenues, without holding back the economy.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/obama-to-face-the-press-on-status-of-debt-ceiling-talks-2011-7#ixzz1Rp13NTeE

[Autumn]

1. Obama says public not following the debt ceiling talks.

"They shouldn't. " "We're paid to worry about."

That is just fucked up. Why does Obama want an ignorant population?

[emulatorloo]

14. Most people aren't obsessed with the PROCESS like we are.

It is not that they are ignorant. We are obsessed with all the tiny details and the latest rumor. Most people are aware of the basic issues and have opinions on what they want to happen, but they are focused on RESULTS, not Process.

[Autumn]

17. If people did follow it there would be no

tea baggers and no undecideds.

[ladjf]

23. Why would he think that the American public is not following the

debt talks? nt

[patrice]

25. "Obama want(s) an ignorant population" it's logically unfounded wild-ass mischaracterizations such

as that which make people suspect not only your intellectual abilities, but also your motive in regards to the well being of others which very clearly rides on what happens in this situation. In either case, abilities or motive, perhaps you can understand why some people would think such input NOT to be something that anyone's decisions should be based on.

[Autumn]

26. Your post is a wild-ass mis characterization,

I find it very strange that anyone would support ANY President who thinks that the tax payers should not pay attention to the deficit talks. I suspect not only your intellectual abilities, but also your motive.

Obama said : Obama says public not following the debt ceiling talks.
"They shouldn't." "We're paid to worry about it."

You may be just fine with that but I am not.


"The American people, in this critical year, are entitled to a full and open discussion of the issues. They are not getting it from the Republican candidate for President." Harry Truman.

And based on Obamas quote I would add that Obama would rather not have a full and open discussion on the deficit.
Edited to add Trumans quote

[patrice]

27. It IS a big jump from saying they shouldn't follow the artificially limited details of the negotiati

on process, the important parts of which may never make it into the public realm, to he "want(s) and ignorant public" which covers much much more ground. If you don't agree about what they should know about TAX POLICY discussions, then say THAT, and try to avoid creating larger, MUCH larger negative allusions by saying he wants an ignorant public. Such errors in basic logic look suspicious.

[patrice]

28. There are always exceptions, Truman & the A-bomb, for example. Have you ever tried to do

anything by genuine consensus? Guess what, IT DOESN'T WORK. That's why we hire leaders and subject-matter-experts, such as attorneys, who need control of their information in order to protect their options in response to various tactics, including feints, from the opposition.

[TheWraith]

2. It's DU's taste for paranoia and Democrat-bashing. nt

[BlueCaliDem]

6. Which is getting pretty prolific lately. K&R, TheWraith. You're so spot on! eom

[damntexdem]

10. I'd love to have my fears proved wrong.

But there IS reason to fear.

[sad sally]

18. Past bad experiences with our political leaders can cause paranoia.

I don't think examining and even critizing words from our President is Democrat-bashing. If it's an offense to some, to others being called a basher makes it appear that another freedom has been plucked from the much-touted American liberties - kind of saying, "sit down and shut up, don't make waves, accept everything your Party Leader says; no questions asked."

It was this kind of thinking that took America into an illegal war we are still engaged in.

We cannot know right now whether the steadfastness of Obama’s rhetoric in defending core liberal and Democratic ideals will be matched by equal resoluteness in practice when the battles heat up and the temptation to make deals and jettison core priorities intensifies.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

3. I got lost @ "above and between."

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Translation: TRUST US...

As far as I can throw you.

[Autumn]

5. Kind of reminds me of Trust me. I'll pull out.

Now I have never been stupid enough to believe that.

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[izquierdista]

7. Triangulation:

Left foot firmly planted, right foot firmly planted, both hands on the rug and...PULL!

[BlueCaliDem]

8. Unrec'd for paranoia. eom

[damntexdem]

9. They pull on that rug, and there aint gonna be no pacificity after.

And maybe no Democratic Party, either.

[CakeGrrl]

11. You have until August 2 to wring your hands. -nt

[patrice]

12. Triangulation and the third side of it is 3rd party base-building in an environment in which

BOTH of the other sides, Republicans & Democrats, are having internal party issues.

All three sides of the triangle are getting ready to throw folks under the buss. Republicans will throw the most people under the bus, from their own party and everyone else, so the question is of the two remaining groups, Dems or 3rd Party base-builders, which one is going to throw more people under the bus: Democrats/President Obama, or 3rd party base-builders who don't actually have any standing beyond spoiling and probably won't have any such standing, especially after they throw a bunch of folks under the buss, for a couple of decades. PLUS we don't even know who this 3rd party push is right now, but we can guess from the $$$$$$$$$$$ side that it's NOT the Greens, but is, instead, the Libertarians, in which case we need to move them up from 2nd place in this hierarchy of murder to first, because not only do they influence their Republican SLAVES, if they ever achieve ascendency what we have going on right now is going to look like a picnic in the park compared to that particular HOLOCAUST.

[patrice]

13. P.S.That would be Libertarians with the possibility of Greens riding in their sllipstream. nt

[emulatorloo]

15. paranoia n/t

[patrice]

20. naivete, i.e. taking everything in politics at face value. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

16. He means it like he meant his opposition to mandates

This is guy who thinks God tells him that Straight folks are special and 'sanctified' and other such nonsense. His words are without grounding or meaning. This guy, he employed a vicious anti gay hate preacher as surrogate one week, and defended that surrogate as speaking for millions of 'good, decent and moral people' then the next, he went to SF and snarked at PA for 'clinging to God and guns and fear of those unlike themselves'. So he hires a man who preaches against those who are different and then slams people in another State who do the same? This is not a man with a moral center, or any form of roots to his thinking at all, he is just a verbal feather in the wind, saying whatever will get him a check or a deal or a round of applause.

[originalpckelly]

19. How does this dip expect social security to keep going if he cuts the taxes feeding it?

:shrug:

[sad sally]

21. Oh, you mean that "holiday" tax? Doesn't talk about extending

seem kinda' like a sneaky plan to bankrupt it completely so it will die a "natural death?" There were some rumors awhile back that maybe employers contribution, which is still at 6%, should also get a "holiday," in order to create more jobs (trust me, okay, this time we really mean jobs will be created - for somebody, somewhere in the world).

And have we ever heard if the transfer from the general funds to replinish the "holiday" funds has actually been delivered? Or is the repayment in the form of 'intragovernmental' bonds that the Treasury gives to other parts of the government - like Social Security - as 'I.O.U.s' after raiding their accounts.

[patrice]

22. Traingulation: All sides/issues involved triangulating all other sides/issues.

[ladjf]

24. I fear and even believe that Obama is putting up the appearance

of resistance, knowing all along that in the end he will cave.

That is exactly what the Governors Barnett of MS and Wallace of AL did during the integrations of their state universities. They literally made deals with the Federal officials to allow them to put up some resistance at the registration building doors and then promised that they would back off and offer no further Resistance. (A side note to this: Bobby Kennedy, unbeknown to Barnett, had recorded his talks with Barnett. The result of which ruined Barnett's career as a politician when the people of MS. found out conclusively that he had disingenuously sold them out.)

Maybe I'm wrong a Obama will "change his spots" and show some Democratic colors and backbone. He could guarantee his election in 2012 if he did so.