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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 03:51 PM
Original message
God forbid we cut cursive.
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 03:53 PM by FLAprogressive
Schools are teaching junk history, teaching cliffs notes versions of civics classes, and including "intelligent design" bullshit in science classes. By the way, kids, even at the highest level, can barely read and/or form a proper sentence nowadays. Let's not forget that all important test prep which consumes precious classroom time. But yes, I agree, we need to continue to devote class time to teaching the art form of cursive, which has been all but supplanted by typed communication.

Their fourth-grade level "sentences" will look so pretty though.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. Cursive, a lost art. I found some letters my grandmother wrote years ago...
...and they really are beautiful - but somehow my husband (who managed to get a Ph.D.) can't write in cursive to save his life, and my kids weren't asked to use it beyond the third grade. I can still do it - but don't recommend spending time on it unless it's a hobby, like calligraphy or something.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Clearly your husband is uneducated since he never mastered the important skill of pretty writing.
Or so some would say here.
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yeah, the stupid slob. ;) ...
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 04:10 PM by polichick
Actually he did have to learn cursive in elem. school, but forgot it over the years since he was always on computers.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. do you know that learning cursive has implications for brain development?
I don't have my hands on the literature right now, but I think that is generally supported.
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grasswire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. here's one article
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Cursive is not the only way to develop young minds, I'm sure.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
12. The reference is possibly to a specific type of development. Not that it would be
the sole cause of whatever that development is, but, rather that it augments it somehow.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
29. I agree with Dr. Sortino.
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 06:14 PM by MissMarple
I believe cursive provides a better connection to words, language and spelling than block printing and keyboarding, not to mention the other neurological benefits. I used to be a special education teacher. Kids with learning disabilities and behavior problems can benefit from the early introduction of cursive.

Dr. Sortino:
"For example, Rand Nelson of Peterson Directed Handwriting believes when children are exposed to cursive handwriting, changes occur in their brains, which allow a child to overcome motor challenges. He says, “the act of physically gripping a pen or pencil and practicing the swirls, curls and connections of cursive handwriting activates parts of the brain that lead to increased language fluency.

Moreover, the work of Iris Hatfield, creator of the New American Cursive Program, also believes in the connection between cursive writing and brain development as a powerful tool to stimulate intelligence and language fluency as well as improve neural connections in the brain, “She explains, “the physiological movement of writing cursive letters help build pathways in the brain while improving mental effectiveness. And, this increased effectiveness may continue throughout the child’s academic career.”

Further, Shadmehr and Holcomb of Johns Hopkins University, published a study in Science Magazine showing that their subjects’ brains actually changed in reaction to physical instruction such as cursive handwriting lessons. The researchers provided PET (Positron Emission Tomography) scans as evidence of these changes in brain structure. In addition, they also demonstrated that these changes resulted in an “almost immediate improvement in fluency,” which led to later development of neural pathways. As a result of practicing motor skills, the researchers found that knowledge becomes more stable.

Furthermore, there are the psychosocial benefits as well. According to author, Mathew Geiger, “as our brains learn to connect our inner worlds to the external universe, we begin to recognize abstract ideas like awareness of others and perception.” Cursive writing affords us the opportunity to naturally train these fine motor skills by taking advantage of a child’s inability to fully control his fingers. This means cursive writing acts as a building block rather than as a stressor, and provides a less strenuous learning experience."

The citation is below, as well as in Grasswire's post above in #4.

http://www.davidsortino.com/intelligence-and-the-art-of-cursive-writing/
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
11. So does playing video games - though I hate them myself.
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Only cigarette smokin breastfeeding Olive Garden boneless banana eating mothers need cursive
:sarcasm:
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NYC_SKP Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Pit Bulls
You almost had it, D.B....

:P
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DainBramaged Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #9
26. Darn, i'll try harder next time
:hug:
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Shagbark Hickory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think the time should instead be devoted to teaching cooking.
And teaching students about ingredients and selection and storage of vegetables and meats and things.

Wouldn't it be cool if the younger generations could actually feed themselves? And I'm not talking about going to mcdonalds.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. my kids have learned more, in earlier years than we ever did. have had awesome focus on writing
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 04:08 PM by seabeyond
abilities that i am so thrilled with. they have had no intelligent design in their education and the only time it was brought up by a student, the science teacher rejected her embarrassingly.

i am tired of people dismissing all the things the schools are accomplishing today when i see it is above and beyond than any other time. my kids work hard. they have tough subjects. and high expectations of them. and they deserve the credit.

cursive...? not such a big deal. my oldest was taught in younger grades, but he has reverted back to printing and they dont care. my youngest has motor skill/neurological issues and any writing is an issue for him, the teachers, the system. they thought cursive would be easier. they decided not to push it to work on printing. he is going to have a tough time regardless and he has to figure a way to get beyond it.
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KT2000 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
13. Really?
Cursive is a faster way of writing. Hasn't anyone ever attended a public meeting where they had to take notes for future reference? Printing is slower and carrying a laptop everywhere is ridiculous.
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JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. No it isn't.
In reality, there is no difference, if you control for the preferred writing style of the person taking notes.

I print MUCH faster, and clearer, than when I write in cursive. Except for my own signature.

Since learning cursive 30+ years ago, I have yet to have a real need to use it. No job has ever required, or expected it.

All formal reports are TYPED. And my notes are for ME.

Meeting minutes are not distributed in my PRINT or in my handwriting, but in EMAIL or WORD DOC form, so that others who attended the meeting can easily read them, and contribute their own thoughts and comments on those notes.

Cursive is on the same path as calligraphy. Optional, if you want to use it. Not required because it really adds little.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
28.  For you, perhaps...
...See my response at #15.
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colorado_ufo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
14. There is a difference between functional cursive writing
and "penmanship" classes, as my grandmother used to call them, just as there is between "penmanship" and calligraphy. Cursive is efficient and faster for taking notes in classes or meetings, and one does not always have a laptop at hand!

When I was in the second grade, I was transferred from a school in which we were still using print to one that had already transitioned the second grade students to cursive. My teacher refused to accept my papers in print. When I explained that I had not learned cursive, she merely pointed to the posters around the upper perimeter of the room, which had the print letters and their cursive equivalents. She told me that this was all I needed to know and indicated that I was on my own to learn them. The next two weeks were hell, as I was used to being a good student, and my grades suffered from papers that I could not complete on time, due to my slowly and painfully drawing each letter in cursive. However, I perservered and managed to learn the cursive writing on my own.

If a kid can learn cursive in two weeks without assistance, surely any educational system can take a month and teach almost any student cursive, a skill that will last a lifetime and be eminently more useful than a lot of stuff in the current curriculum.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. It's not necessarily faster ...
...See my response at #15.
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markpkessinger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
15. My problem with cursive handwriting
My mind has not been made up as yet as to the relative importance of continuing to teach cursive handwriting. But I will share a bit of my own experience and struggle with the art.

Like most folks of a certain age, I learned cursive writing fairly early on in grammar school. From that point on, at least until I was in high school, virtually all written assignments were expected to be in cursive (in high school, at least for longer essays, term papers, etc., we were permitted to submit typewritten papers). Cursive writing never came easy to me, but eventually, provided I wasn't hurried and could take my time, I learned to produce a readable, decent-looking result. But the second I was under the slightest bit of time pressure (such as, say, in an essay exam), my hand would cramp up and the result was a notch or two above chicken scratch. The problem was not a lack of fine motor skill development (I had studied piano since I was three years old), nor was it an inability to compose my thoughts and present them in written form (indeed, as a college freshmen, I was exempted from the English comp. requirement). It was simply that the physical process of handwriting was grueling for me (non-cursive hand printing was slightly less so, probably owing to the tiny breaks the muscles of the hand can take between writing each individual letter). There were occasions when my slow, painful handwriting resulted in my inability to complete exams within the allotted time, which, in turn, resulted in some lower grades.

I remember once in college, taking an in-class semi-final in Medieval and Renaissance Music History that had only a few questions, but questions that merited a rather lengthy essay response. By that point, I had learned a strategy to cope with the physical difficulty of presenting a handwritten essay response while under time pressure: I had developed a couple of alternative handwriting styles that were hybrid styles of printing and cursive, and which had differing slants (sometimes the standard rightward slant, sometimes no slant, sometimes a slightly leftward slant). On this particular exam, even within a single essay responses, I made use of all of my alternatives (although I would usually stick with one or another style at least for the duration of a paragraph). I got an "A" on the exam, but when the professor returned it to me, there was a note from him: "Just curious...what accounts for the change in penmanship style?" I responded with a note saying simply, "Neurosis." He got a kick out of that response; later on I gave the reason as outlined above. But had this been one of those "take home" exams and I had submitted it with all my various handwriting styles, I might well have been accused of cheating.
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FLAprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
20. Great post....the way some here talk, you are a lesser if you haven't mastered the art of cursive.
I have always had poor print handwriting and even worse cursive handwriting yet in school I was a strong reader and writer.
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #20
31. Cusive is important, but it doesn't come easily to everyone. I am sorry for your experience.
:) And some teachers even disparage phonics, some children really need it, others not so much.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #15
27. I fell into a hybrid style myself in college
Anyone who thinks you can't print (well, mostly-print) quickly didn't see my notetaking.

I'm re-teaching myself cursive more for its own sake than out of any desire to use it in my day-to-day writing; my current style serves me well enough, but I appreciate the other varieties on an aesthetic level.
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
18. I know how to write cursive
because I was taught it briefly but never learned cursive beyond the 6th grade.
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damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. But, but, on all of those 10 Suggestions monuments, the words are not in cursive.
So obviously God curses cursive. ;-)
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HopeHoops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
21. And old family letters will turn into a foreign language.
Come to think of it, most of them are pretty incomprehensible anyway.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. I learned cursive and never use it aside from signing my name
Handwriting, in general, is tiresome and in the near future will be all but obsolete. I agree that of all of the ways our educational system is lacking, the teaching of cursive is not one of them.
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Abq_Sarah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. I do a lot of note taking
But not generally in cursive. Really, it's faster and easier for me to pull out a notebook or an index card and jot down a note than to take notes on a computer. I'll ignore the calender on my computer with a notation to buy dog food but I won't ignore the sticky note attached to the monitor.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Ya know, in pre-history days we learned both styles AND took a non-scaled SAT.
Edited on Mon Jul-11-11 05:14 PM by WinkyDink
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AverageJoe90 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 05:16 PM
Response to Original message
24. One form of education manipulation has simply been replaced with another.
T.P.T.B. have always tried to keep education under their control to one extent or the other; 100 years ago, many schools were probably teaching how great the pseudo-science of eugenics supposedly was, for example.
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banned from Kos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-11-11 06:11 PM
Response to Original message
30. I rarely need to read cursive and when I do its hand-written chicken scratchings
from someone I doubt can write a coherent sentence.

All great literature I read is in block print. Cursive is dying out.
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