In under 2 years we have gone from the hopes of Single Payer to Cutting Medicare Benefits?

[Ruby the Liberal]

So, this administration wants to run 6 unfunded wars (Iraq, Vietganistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, Sudan) and pay for them on the backs of our most vulnerable citizens - our seniors.

Just how much is someone 65/66 going to have to pay for the 'mandated' medical insurance coming in 2014? Add to that, if they aren't working and can't get into a group plan? Another giveaway to the insurance cabal right there.

If Medicare is struggling, why not raise the amount we are paying into it? Yes, we are living longer, so fine. Up the entrance fee.

Where are our priorities as a nation? The mere thought of this has me grinding my teeth in anger.

I am sure that these trial balloons are being launched by the administration on purpose to try to back Republicans into a corner, but it is going to backfire on them HUGE. They underestimate the stupidity of the masses.

All of those idiot teabaggers with their "keep the government out of my Medicare" signs are going to hang a cut in Medicare around the collective Democratic neck for a generation while the Republicans claim they tried to 'stop it'.

/rant

:banghead:

[leveymg]

1. KNR. Very good questions. All of them.

[JoePhilly]

2. When did Obama promise single payer????

And what cuts to Social Security has he endorsed?

Man, chicken little would have trouble getting a word in edge wise on DU.

[rhett o rick]

5. So you dont think the president will cut SS and Medicare? Is that what your are saying? nm

[JuniperLea]

23. The poster was very clear...

In their comment and question.

Please try to follow their lead.

[rhett o rick]

30. The post was snarky. I asked his opinion but he wont tell us. Just wants to snark. nm

[girl gone mad]

38. The poster misquoted the OP.

Their lead is meandering down the path of irrelevance.

[Bluebear]

53. .

[JoePhilly]

28. What I am saying is that if I want the current KNEE-JERK

reactions to anything Obama says ... Free Republic and DU are the first sites I check.

[Ruby the Liberal]

32. Thats what trial balloons are for - reaction

He told us to hold his feet to the fire, and we are. This thread was just my way of clearing my head from the frustration of what they are suggesting so that I can coherently write the whitehouse and tell them what I think.

[JoePhilly]

34. Then your OP should recommend that action.

I've sent emails to my congress people that I don't cuts to SS or Medicare.

That makes sense given that the GOP is hell bent on destroying those.

But all of the knee-jerking on how Obama plans to kill granny is just nuts.

[Ruby the Liberal]

37. Talk about "KNEE-JERK"? Where did I ever suggest "kill granny"?

I am talking about the cost to these seniors of this suggested negotiation point and my frustration on where this administrations priorities are.

[Ruby the Liberal]

6. When did I say promise?

Were you following this in the summer of 2009 (ie - 2 years ago) when we were fighting for the HOPE of single payer? When we thought it was still on the table?

As far as SS - he floated that trial balloon at his presser today, hours before this one launched. Moxnews.com has it uploaded to their YouTube page in 3 parts in case you missed it.

[JuniperLea]

26. He never promised... you hoped...

He said he was against cutting SS... yet you persist. Curious.

[Ruby the Liberal]

29. Like I said in the post you responded to

I never said he promised it. Maybe you don't recall 2009, but for months we were lead to believe that single payer was on the table as a starting point in negotiations. It was a campaign point. It wasn't until the end of the summer-ish (and all of those moronic town hall scream-fests) that we found out it wasn't.

No one believed that they would start negotiations from anything but a full-bore position with everything. Between single-payer and pharma and a bill written by the insurance companies (remember the whole Max Baucus issue?) we ended up with mandates AND now the threat of forcing people 65/66 to buy insurance.

His SS trial balloon was floated hours before Medicare's launched. His presser from this morning is on YouTube (and probably whitehouse.gov) if you missed it.

I know you are a fan of this administration, but can you honestly tell me that you don't have an issue with this?

[JuniperLea]

44. I only have issues with the things he's actually done...

Not with what he plans on, what he wants to, what he is going to... in other words, I stick with reality and leave the crystal ball stuff to the professionals.

This assumption that just anyone can make accurate crystal ball predictions is on my last frayed nerve.





"Good morning! I say what a joy it is to look ahead and show you the signs of your future. So much happiness is in store for you the most brilliantly lighted stars are put to shame by the brightness of your light! Oh, happiness what an elusive thing you are, but thank GOD you were born beneath this star!

Drop another coin in the slot and I will tell you more!"

[Ruby the Liberal]

46. This admin floated the trial balloon. The purpose of a trial balloon it to gauge reaction.

I shared my reaction and my reasons for concern.

[JuniperLea]

47. Did you listen to his speech?

He said he is against such things.

I give up.


DU is dead to me.

[bahrbearian]

58. You keep saying that, but your still here.

[Ken Burch]

67. This, from the person who has a "peace sign" in all her posts

Yet never questions any of Obama's wars...because it's "ok when OUR GUY does it".

[robinlynne]

60. the words were "hopes of single payer'. Obama said single payer is the best solution for the US. His

exact quoted speech was posted here on DU yesterday or the day before. The medicare cuts are being negotiated right now. Raising the age to receive medicare is a medicare cut, by the way.

[robinlynne]

61. Here is Obama's quote on cuts from another Du thread::

And so, yeah, we’re going to have a sales job; this is not pleasant. It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues. But the reason we’ve got a problem right now is people keep on avoiding hard things, and I think now is the time for us to go ahead and take it on.

[eilen]

62. Well, if he promised mandates and no single payor

maybe we would have voted for Hillary.

[Ignis]

71. Ooh look, a strawman! GET IT!!!

:eyes:

[demodonkey]

3. Don't grind your teeth.... there's no dental coverage either! nt

[Ruby the Liberal]

13. LOL!

Thanks for making me laugh. I needed that.

:toast:

[LoZoccolo]

4. We lost seats and leverage in 2010; let's not let it happen again. n/t

[Ruby the Liberal]

11. What the fuck do you want ME to do about that?

He is the one doing this to the party. I certainly didn't suggest appeasing Republicans while screwing seniors as a negotiation strategy.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[eilen]

63. nor a re-election strategy

Epic fail on that count.

[Ruby the Liberal]

65. I know, right?

Man has managed to piss off everyone from the leftest of the left to the rightest of the right with this suggestion.

[Creideiki]

14. Looks like the party leadership is doing their best to ensure we lose more in 2012

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Some States back east lost seats, go whine at them

And stop saying 'we' when it was a regional crap out, not a national one.

[dsc]

54. actually it was pretty close to national

only your region went well.

[999998th word]

7. And clearing the way for fascist takeover.

[rhett o rick]

8. The revolution is waiting. nm

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. This is what happens in dying empires

we cannot afford both... so the metropoli, read the US, will suffer,

In the end... none will be had, but that is 'nother story. We ain't exceptional... and like all Empires here we go again,

[villager]

15. and I guess it stands to reason that the last of the Emperors would all dissemble

...telling everyone that things will be fine and we can still have it all.

What the fuck! We're Rome! It's always been this way!

[nadinbrzezinski]

35. Actually Spain with a few flavors of Rome

and even less of England, but large swathes of the USSR.

[WinkyDink]

33. The former Austro-Hungarian Empire has some pretty decent health-care for its citizens.

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. What happened at the end?

They were defeated.

[Ken Burch]

68. Did you get full coverage for helmet spike wounds?

n/t.

[Rex]

10. Yeah, was thinking about that the other day and something I said

under the terrorist years of GWB...how has it come to this?

[Taverner]

12. Dude, I don't know

(shakes head)

I just don't know...

[DJ13]

17. Where are our priorities as a nation?

Its not the priorities of the nation in question here.... its the priorities of our politicians thats in question.

Im starting to think the plan to severely slash (not "trim") the New Deal safety net has been in place since before Obama ran for office.

He knew what was expected of him, and he lied to win office so he could carry that plan out.

The man is a stealth conservative (who would have been a Republican in past times), but he could hide his intentions with pretty speeches and the anger over Bush.

[patrice]

18. Please state your expertise on Medicare and how it delivers services.

You may have heard Senator Bernie Sanders discuss the difference between cutting Medicare services as compared to cutting Medicare payments. Please note #3 in http://www.pnhp.org/news/2010/may/ten-things-you-can-do-for-healthcare-reform & PNHP is not the only national organization (you could research the Brookings Institute on this subject) saying Medicare CAN be improved and thus SURVIVE for future generations, and possibly even become Medicare for all, which is also something Senator Sanders is known to say.

[Ruby the Liberal]

39. I am not sure what you are asking

but have been a contributor to pnhp since 2006 and on their mailing list for slightly longer. I honor the work they (and CalNurses and John Conyers and Dennis Kucinich, among others) have been trying to do over the years on this.

Other people have their hot button issues and lines in the sand (wars, LGBT rights, etc) and while I support those causes 100% as well, the fucked up for-profit healthcare insurance scam in this country is mine.

[patrice]

55. Bernie Sanders himself is making distinctions between money that goes for services and money that

goes for payments.

Medicare is an old, rather complicated system. There are all kinds of ways to use CMS's reporting interfaces, most of them allowable, but not all of them necessarily what the people in care actually need and there ARE people, Risk Managers, many of whom are not health care professionals, in between the care givers and the care receivers. Direct care givers are not always free to do what they as professionals think needs to be done. I'm not an expert either; I have just been around this stuff and just want those who are actually directly involved in the care to be the ones who determine what happens, not politics and people yelling about "cuts" (which could very well be Reform from the perspective of those involved in the care), especially when they don't really know that much about the complex multi-layered systems in which all of this goes down.

[Mimosa]

51. No chance of medicare for all since the insurance companies have been guaranteed profits

Patrice, you should have read the link before posting it.

Excerpt"

Under the new healthcare system, however, private insurance companies are guaranteed millions of new customers, and regulations on the industry aren't as tough as they should be. Big Pharma and HMOs were also able to secure lavish subsidies and concessions in the bill. Drs. David U. Himmelstein and Steffie Woolhandler, longtime advocates for single payer with Physicians for a National Health Program, have sifted through the mounds of information and misinformation to bring you ten things you need to know about the new law and a few actions to bring true reform to the healthcare industry.

1. The act risks ensconcing skimpy coverage as the norm. Participating plans are required to cover only 60 percent of expected healthcare costs, leaving families responsible for huge out-of-pocket expenses. The law will also tax "Cadillac plans," hitting millions of working families. Work with union activists to repeal the tax, maintain comprehensive healthcare benefits and fight for Medicare for all.

2. The law reduces Medicare's out-of-pocket costs for drugs by closing the infamous "donut hole," covering 75 percent of these costs by 2020. But the deal is even better for drug firms, who'll be getting paid full price for their products. Push to replace the privatized Medicare drug-coverage program with a fully public plan that would use its bargaining power to force down drug prices by about 40 percent.

[patrice]

57. And 3. Regarding payments:

3. HMOs were allowed into Medicare on the promise that they would save money, but over time they successfully lobbied Congress to increase their Medicare payments to 14 percent above costs. The new healthcare law cuts about $136 billion from these overpayments. Advocate for eliminating them entirely and phasing out investor-owned health providers that deliver inferior care at inflated prices.

.........................

Why is everyone being so resistant to improving Medicare? Do you really think that this old rather complex system is delivering services at the best efficiency it can muster? Tell that to my sisters who have had to defend our mother from hospitals that get paid ANYWAY. Our experiences are not unique. You might read up on issues in Long Term Care.

There has been lots written about this, but it doesn't appear that anyone on this board cares to google any of it. It looks as though they just want to scream about cuts and say the worst things possible about President Obama. Even though I feel quite uncertain about all that is going on, not so much about him as about the context in which this is occurring, that kind of extremeness along with what looks like basic ignorance on this particularly complex issue, looks really suspicious.

..............................

http://www.brookings.edu/health.aspx
http://www.rwjf.org/about/product.jsp?id=14660
http://thomas.loc.gov/medicare/index.html (note that this one is in Thomas, because, I believe it was part of the ACA of 2010)

[Cleita]

19. Sad isn't it? I've been watching this country being trashed

since the Supreme Court appointed *w as our leader. It's been downhill since then. He worked enough of a breach in the dam that is causing all right wing policies to surge unstopped into our daily lives. Even if Obama were the person we pinned all our hopes on, maybe his finger isn't big enough to plug the dam until it can be repaired.

[Hydra]

52. He had a chance to turn it all around in 2008

He had the political capital that only comes once in 100 years...He could have been a legend of the sort FDR became...but he let it all pass...

[Blasphemer]

20. Well... hopes of a public option to cutting Medicare

Single payer was never on the table. But, you point stands and yes, it is disgusting.

[Ruby the Liberal]

22. I was probably the last person in the US to come to grips that it was off the table

I kept hoping against hope that Conyers and Kucinich could at least get it into the conversation.

[bvar22]

21. Yes.... but you have to admit

that the Kabuki Theater has been beautifully Choreographed.

[Ruby the Liberal]

25. Never yell FIRE in a crowded kabuki theater.

August 2, when this blows up, will be an interesting day indeed. Our debt is going to start being downgraded in a week. I hope he knows what he is doing because I have yet to hear anything positive.

[woo me with science]

24. Stunning and to-the-point headline. nt

[Peter1x9]

31. Taxation without representation...

of the rich, by the rich, for the rich

[LooseWilly]

40. The title about sums it up, doesn't it?

The "best" part is seeing Obama become firm and wax eloquent only at the end of the process... fighting his heart out to get Democrats to pass Republican policy which no Democrat would ever vote for otherwise. It is truly inspiring.

[Ruby the Liberal]

42. It has been said that it would take a Democrat to undo the New Deal

Whats next - Civil Rights Act? Americans with Disability Act?

What new excuse will they come up with as to why businesses have a government hardship preventing them from 'creating jobs'

[LooseWilly]

50. It sounds like you're making predictions of upcoming plans.

Maybe in his second term... he'll hollow out civil rights and maybe throw in some tort reform to protect "struggling businesses" from potential fiscal harm at the hands of trial attorneys (and what the hell, why not throw in some fiscal protections from regulatory fines too?)... in order to "safeguard the precarious and tenuous economic progress made thus far".

I mean, he obviously understands the idea of throwing a bone to those from whom he wants support...

[peace4ever]

41. Well, did promise change

Who know he meant for the worse.

[Ruby the Liberal]

43. LOL!

There is that. :D

[0rganism]

45. seems like sensible policies are out of reach for the next 20 years

Instead of W leading a direct assault on SSI and Medicare, we have Obama preparing to negotiate them slowly away. :grr:
Does Mr. 11-Dimensional Chess understand, can he possibly NOT realize, that the GOP will BLAME ANY BENEFIT REDUCTIONS ON HIM AND THE OTHER DEMOCRATS IN 2012? Their strategy is so transparent, so blatantly obvious, and if past is predicate, it will be completely successful. We're looking at a complete GOP takeover of the senate and the presidency next year, at this rate.

I just hope I live long enough to see things turn around.

[derby378]

48. Well, so much for nine-dimensional space chess

When the only game your opponent knows is War, you learn the rules, beat him at his own game, and take his lunch money. :evilgrin:

[Ruby the Liberal]

49. My bad - we are drone bombing Somalia, not the Sudan

Too late to edit. My apologies.

Lord knows, if Sudan had oil (as opposed to 'only' human rights issues), we would be there too.

[somone]

56. Thank you, President Obama

The bestest president ever :sarcasm:

[slay]

59. Pretty much

fucking sad isn't it?

[firehorse]

64. It's unbelievable. Obama as Bush third term, is not what I voted for.

Republicans were scared that Obama was a secret muslim socialist, and little did they know that they would get a third term Bush president.

[Ruby the Liberal]

69. That is why this is a lose/lose gamble

If he thinks he is going to 'win them over' with this, he is sadly mistaken.

Have you cruised on over to any teabagger/RW sites to see what they are saying about him the last 2 years? I do and often and am absolutely amazed every time.

They are convinced he is a marxist/socialist/communist/nazi (whatever the fuck that is), the most liberal President ever, and hell bent on making this country a socialist nation. These people tune into Fox daily for their talking points on the news du jour and they quit actually listening to him well before the election.

Now, the 'most liberal President ever' is trying to take their benefits away and the brave Republicans are standing their ground to try to stop him. More proof that he is a communist at heart and the Republicans need to be back in charge to "save the country". I am still trying to put my jaw back in place after reading that echo chamber of higher thinking.

Boggles. The. Mind.

[firehorse]

72. It does boggle the mind. I wish Obama would be the socialist, marxist, communist the teabaggers are

so fearful of.

He spoke of public option when he was running. Those two words sold me. I just can't fathom that any person running for office using words such as public option, would ever or any democrat for that matter put medicare on the chopping block. Racist teabaggers can't get out of denial that their dream president is black, he's Bush 3rd term.

We are a one party corporatist nation. Everything else is political theater, to distract from that fact.

[Safetykitten]

66. Oh yes, and the grand prize...a republican president in 2012!

[totodeinhere]

70. I don't support raising the amount we are paying into it as you suggested.

Many seniors are struggling just to make their Medicare deduction now. In some cases it takes as much as one third of their monthly Social Security check already. The last thing we need to do is to raise that amount on struggling seniors. We need to find a better way such as putting a surcharge on wealthy individuals.

[firehorse]

73. It's pretty clear that seniors and poor people are considered a liabilty by the corporate party

They are being thrown under a bus. Old age and things like affordable decent education, are becoming a luxury item only the wealthy can afford.

[Ruby the Liberal]

74. You misunderstood

I am not suggesting Medicare recipients pay more, I am suggesting that they raise the deduction on earned income.

[totodeinhere]

75. OK thanks Ruby, Then I agree with you as long as this doesn't affect

lower income people.