Larry O'Donnell was absolutely brilliant tonight on Obama's debt ceiling strategy!

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

DUers: PLEASE WATCH!!!!

[provis99]

1. Frankly,

I though O'Donnell's explanation was about the most contorted explanation of Obama's behavior that I've ever seen. Only the true Obama Believers would accept O'Donnell's spin. Besides the fact that O'Donnell basically glided over Obama's stupidly painting himself into a corner with that veto threat.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

3. It was very reasonable and well thought out. Just my opinion. n/t

[elleng]

5. and mine.

[SDuderstadt]

12. And me....n/t

[cliffordu]

7. Nice try, but fail.

Nothing contorted about it.

It ain't three dimensional chess or ponies.

Just good hard politics from a guy who everyone thinks is weak.

Keep watching.

THIS is the fucking guy who dismantled the Clinton machine in a couple of months.

[KaryninMiami]

9. Thank you. My sentiments exactly!

He still remains "the smartest guy in the room". Nothing's changed except that a number of the folks in the rest of the room have moved from bat shit crazy to seriously dangerous. There is no one I trust more to be able to maneuver through this.

[patrice]

16. Odd isn't it. How people think they know absolutely everything involved in what's going on

in every detail and all of the permutations of same throughout the foreseeable future, so their conclusions are absolutely correct and valid and they characterize and critique the processes of high stakes negotiations as though such efforts go forward in the forms and processes of normal conversation.

I mean all of this sloppy thinking looks very suspicious.

We need to talk about exactly WHY the ends does not justify the means, especially when an honest good faith effort is so badly abused. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas, you still have and are working with fleas no matter how noble your ideology is.

[Marr]

23. O'Donnell's model is incredibly complex and full of assumptions.

Critics, as far as I can tell, are using past performance and a superficial read of the available facts. It took quite a bit of creativity to spin the whole thing in a positive way. If anyone is claiming knowledge here, it's O'Donnell.

[patrice]

25. I think I'll go with the subject-matter-expert rather than a bunch of anonymous posters on the inter

net, most of whom have not demonstrated even the slightest interest in finding out what might be the difference between Medicare "cuts" (they use that word as if they know exactly and precisely what it refers to in all situations, or that it means what THEY say it means and nothing else) and Medicare Reform. If their knowledge of high stakes negotiation processes and techniques is the same as their apparent knowledge of Medicare, well, as I said, LO at least knows more of what he's talking about than some, who are quite capable of covert agendas, do.

[jtown1123]

28. O'Donnell is an expert? haha. Color me unimpressed.

Why not read the thousands of articles from sources inside the negotiations who are leaking what's going on. Those people know. Not O'Donnell.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

40. Well, yes. Actually, he is! He worked for Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

Was his go-to advisor on the Senate Finance Committee, a committee that Moynihan chaired for a time. Now, why would one of the greatest senators to have ever served in the United States Senate choose someone who doesn't know anything about the budget making process in Congress? Someone who doesn't know anything about how government works? And, has no clue about how politics often shapes policy outcomes?

I don't think you're in any position to question the late senator's judgment on these matters. I think the senator did quite well in his choice. May he rest in peace.

[KittyWampus]

11. I am getting sick of the perennial pant-wetters. A lot of people shouldn't follow politics

cause they obviously can't handle it.

[cliffordu]

19. I'm with you, kiddo.

[Bobbie Jo]

34. +1000

:kick:

[BlueDemKev]

30. You got a point....

...about Obama dismantling the Clinton machine. Let's just hope he's as underrated a politician as we've been made to believe the last 2+ years.

[patrice]

10. Perhaps you can understand how some might have doubts that any other assessment

is even remotely possible around here, no matter who does what as long as it doesn't fit certain preconceived notions and scenarios.

[dionysus]

32. obama stupid... his culti- er, true believers... rinse... repeat...

[elleng]

2. Ditto. Already posted. Some conversation here!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1468342

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. Video here:

http://thelastword.msnbc.msn.com/

[proud patriot]

6. it was good .. fingers crossed

[Lil Missy]

8. Yes, and just what I was thinking too. He's got them by the balls.

[flamingdem]

13. Obama is as brilliant

I'm hoping that dumb luck doesn't serve the idiotic repukes at this juncture.

Obama should win this one, he deserves it.

[JitterbugPerfume]

14. brilliant

[KittyWampus]

15. Note- O'Donnell had a clip of himself mentioning the debt ceiling after 2010 election.

He knows politics.

[patrice]

20. Yeah but, around here it's "I didn't understand it, ergo it was dumb/wrong/flawed/bad." nt

[Major Hogwash]

17. Baffle them with bullshit, that's what Larry did tonight.

It isn't going to get 1 stinking Republican in the House thrown out if he doesn't vote to raise the debt ceiling.
Republican supporters are braindead to begin with, they are numb from the neck up, that's why they voted for those dumbass Republicans to begin with.

They are loving it. Their Tea Party candidates are doing EXACTLY what they sent them to Washington to do, to not raise taxes!!
Debt ceiling?
Fuck it, it's just a stupid concept anyway!!
That's the way Tea Party supporters think, so they couldn't care less!!

You have to be dumber than a box of rocks to understand those people.
And believe me, I do!!

[aquart]

18. 'nuff said, then.

[patrice]

21. Looks as though someone in this thread has called out their un-recc-ing squad.

I'm getting REALLY tired of this place.

I'd leave except for my cussed contrariness.

[Cheap_Trick]

24. My motto is "Don't let the bastards win"

that, and "I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy"

[patrice]

26. I gave up winning a long time ago. It's all about going down with dignity now. nt

[Marr]

22. Frankly, it reminded me of one of these:

People used to assume the earth was the center of the solar system. They built incredibly complex models that seemed to explain the movements they could observe, and didn't tread on their chosen view.

And that's what O'Donnell did with regards to Obama's deficit "negotiations". With enough complexity, you can convince yourself that up is down, yes means no, the earth in the center of the solar system, and Barack Obama is a liberal president.

[KittyWampus]

27. It's actually pretty simple strategy. It's calling someone's bluff. And it's working.

[edhopper]

29. How did the plan to let the Bush Tax Cuts expire go?

which are the biggest part of the deficit.
Without that vote, there would not be this crisis.
I don't see it.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

31. You do know that the Bush tax cuts also included cuts for the middle class.

Obama traded that for an extension of unemployment benefits, which by the way, are about to expire, thanks to the Republicans. We also got DADT overturned, the START Treaty, and so on.

The problem with many here on DU is that they are driven by hysterics so much so that they are unwilling to understand how politics actually works.

Would I like to see the Bush tax cuts ended? Absolutely, but with one caveat: keep the tax cuts for the middle class; do away with the upper-income cuts.

I'm becoming immune to the hysterics/hyperbole/Obama Derangement Syndrome here on DU. It's getting really tired!!

Learn about how government works, please.

[dionysus]

33. they know this. they just don't care.

[edhopper]

35. And the GOP set him up for this current

blackmail.
Why didn't he get an agreement on the debt ceiling when it was obvious to many here that they would just use extortion again at the next chance.
We know exactly how politics work, and how Obama is getting his clocked clean.
I am getting tired of the apologist for Obama.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

39. "Obama apologists?" I'm sure there are some of those here on DU.

But again, please come with a viable solution to this problem of having to deal with the Republican Party.

When you can provide a solution--THAT IS VIABLE AND CAN PASS THE HOUSE AND SENATE--then, maybe we can talk.

Ad hominem remarks are not solving the problem.

Give me a solution.

And remember: whatever solution you come up with *MUST BE ABLE TO PASS THE U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES* since the U.S. Constitution gives the House the authority to determine revenue policies. NOT the Executive Branch (the President), NOT the Judicial Branch (Supreme Court)!! Article I, Section VII gives that power *exclusively* to the U.S. House of Representatives.

Call me an "Obama apologist," but then you'll have to explain to me why the Constitution does not give the president that authority. The only authority he has is to veto/sign bills that arrive at his desk!

No personal attacks, please! Viable solutions ONLY!!!

Section Seven deals with legislative procedure, providing that all bills for revenue must originate in the House of Representatives.

Section Eight gives to the Congress certain broad enumerated powers. Among these are the power to lay and collect taxes and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; to borrow money on the credit of the United States, to regulate interstate, foreign, and Indian commerce; and to create courts inferior to the Supreme Court among many others. The section also gives to Congress the power to "make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States."

[edhopper]

41. The 14th Amendment.

But he doesn't have the balls.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

42. You are referring to Section 4, right? It is not altogether clear that the 14th Amendment

gives the president this power. Even constitutional scholars are unclear as to how to interpret that provision.

So, let's say you're wrong. Suppose the president DOES "have balls," invokes Section 4. It is challenged, then goes to the U.S. Supreme Court.

What do you think will happen with a wingnut Court? Do you suppose that Chief Justice Roberts would side with the president? Or, how about Justice Scalia? What about Thomas? Alito? Hell, we can't even rely on Justice Kennedy to exercise apolitical, reasonable thought.

Better yet, let's say the SCOTUS sides with the president, but the winguts in the U.S. House of Representatives decide to OVERTURN the SCOTUS' decision. They have the votes, you know. What we then have on our hands is commonly referred to as a Constitutional Crisis. All because your solution is for the president to "have balls," which is just about as intelligent as a dead chicken.

So, since you're so smart and you already know the president's strategy, why don't you enlighten all us and walk us through your infinite wisdom?

[elleng]

36. I'm with you as usual, Stalwart.

:thumbsup:

[Marr]

37. The middle class tax cuts were a pittance.

The trade you describe is like trading a cow for magic beans-- especially when you consider that extending the Bush Tax Cuts is what made the present manufactured "crisis" possible. So really, at the end of the day you're going to need to add the results of this current "negotiation" to the list of items lost in exchange for those magic beans.

Personally, I find it very difficult to believe that this wasn't part of the political calculation from the beginning. They've been setting up political cover for making cuts to Social Security and Medicare since Obama put his Deficit Commission together.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

38. Yes, the middle class tax cuts were merely a pittance. That is absolutely true.

However, the problem is that the Republicans will never go for getting rid of the tax cuts for the filthy rich.

Let the tax cuts expire, period. However, keep in mind that the middle class will be hurt. The Democrats tried to get a stand-alone middle-class tax cut through the lame duck session last year, but the Republicans voted against.

How do you reason with these people when they are hellbent on destroying this country? No one has addressed this question. All I hear are accusations of being an "Obama apologist" with no solutions. It seems that no one has put forth any viable solutions and therefore all that they can issue are ad hominem attacks!