WHAT WE NEED IS A **HUGE** MARCH ON WASHINGTON DC

[trueblue2007]

signs saying

CUT TAX SUBSIDIES FOR OIL COMPANIES


DON'T TOUCH MY SOCIAL SECURITY & MEDICARE

END WARS IN IRAQ AND AFGANISTAN!
GIVE PEACE A CHANCE

**NO TAX CUTS FOR THE RICH**
MILLIONAIRES & BILLIONAIRES START PAYING YOUR FAIR SHARE


GIVE US JOBS!
REPAIR THE us INFRASTRUCTURE!!
Repair the Streets and Freeways




I SAY..... THROW THIS MARCH TOGETHER NOW!!!

[provis99]

1. protesting is pointless.

[Better Believe It]

5. "protesting is pointless" That's what the rulers have always said. So passivity is good?

Let's all be docile.

That'll work!

[trueblue2007]

6. YOU OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T LIVE DURING THE VIETNAM WAR

[Better Believe It]

7. Or during the civil rights, women's rights and gay rights movements in the 60's and 70"s.

Or the labor movement in the 30's, the women's suffrage movement, the Abolitionist movement, the fight for independence, etc.,

:)

Nothing the learn from those successful movements!

[provis99]

11. lawyers and court cases solved those problems. Protests accomplished nothing.

how about explaining how millions of protesters stopped Bush from invading Iraq? Oh that's right, they DIDN'T.

[Better Believe It]

14. You're obviously unfamiliar with American history and our proud protest tradition.

So there really isn't much to debate or discuss with you until after you have learned some of this basic history.

I'm not trying to put you down, just stating the obvious from your comments.

[jimlup]

23. A very naive position indeed...

Pressure from protests is why those institutions did what they did. I assume you are just young and cynical. But you might want to study this question a little deeper. Did protests do nothing in Egypt?

[WCGreen]

29. protest influences the lawyers who take these problems to court..

[sudopod]

30. My face when the Civil Rights Movement worked.

:3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3
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:3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3 :3

[provis99]

10. protesting didn't do jack shit to end the Vietnam War.

[trueblue2007]

12. oh yes it did!!! and the other 3-4 posters who followed me made my case

now get outta my face and march!!!

[provis99]

18. the Vietnam War went on until 1973, long after protests had ceased.

Frankly, even the protesters didn't care if the War went on, once the draft had ended. As long as their own ass wasn't on the line, they didn't protest.

And you know who composed the bulk of the protesters? Working class parents and their kids, because it was them who stood to be drafted. The Vietnam War had support among college students right up until the end of the war, because they got student deferments, and so wouldn't be drafted. In fact, people under 30 were more likely to support the war than older people, at all stages of the war. http://www.seanet.com/~jimxc/Politics/Mistakes/Vietnam_support.html

[Honeycombe8]

31. It was mainly college students who protested the war, and young people

who weren't in college. Young musicians wrote songs about it, performed it.

The protests most definitely changed the view of the country toward the Vietnam War, and led to the ending of the war. The protests went on for years, small and large ones. The National Guard was called out to Kent State, remember? Where they shot and killed several of the college student protestors.

It takes a lot to end a war. It would've ended sooner, if not for LBJ's stubbornness.

And no, people under 30 were not more likely to support the Vietnam War than their parents. Your source is incorrect.

[provis99]

38. you're just like a republican; denying reality if it doesn't suit your bias.

Well, ok then. You are on Ignore.

[Better Believe It]

45. The decision to withdraw from Vietnam and end the draft was due to the protests

Contrary to your statement, most of the protesters were college students and they were the heart of the anti-war movement.

The opposition to the war was greater among young people under 30 than among the older generations.

What sources are you using to get what is clearly misinformation from?

[Honeycombe8]

27. College students have more time to protest than working people, who are the

ones I think who are most concerned with what's going on right now.

[proverbialwisdom]

24. You jest. That's absurd.

Counterevidence is provided by the typically negligible MSM coverage of large protests, implying there must be some reason to hide the story or pretend it isn't newsworthy.

Read Howard Zinn on protest. Or pay attention to President Obama's own not infrequent expressions of respect for people power, present and past.

[proverbialwisdom]

33. Check this out.

http://www.washingtonpeacecenter.org/node/4008

Bill Moyers: Howard Zinn Taught Us That It's OK If We Face Mission Impossible
Submitted by hkaneosorto on Wed, 11/03/2010 - 10:14am

The following text by Bill Moyers was prepared for for a speech delivered October 29, 2010 as part of the Howard Zinn Lecture Series at Boston University:

I was honored when you asked me to join in celebrating Howard Zinn's life and legacy. I was also surprised. I am a journalist, not a historian. The difference between a journalist and an historian is that the historian knows the difference. George Bernard Shaw once complained that journalists are seemingly unable to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization. In fact, some epic history can start out as a minor incident. A young man named Paris ran off with a beautiful woman who was married to someone else, and the civilization of Troy began to unwind. A middle-aged black seamstress, riding in a Montgomery bus, had tired feet, and an ugly social order began to collapse. A night guard at an office complex in Washington D.C. found masking tape on a doorjamb, and the presidency of Richard Nixon began to unwind. What journalist, writing on deadline, could have imagined the walloping kick that Rosa Park's tired feet would give to Jim Crow? What pundit could have fantasized that a third-rate burglary on a dark night could change the course of politics? The historian's work is to help us disentangle the wreck of the Schwinn from cataclysm. Howard famously helped us see how big change can start with small acts.

<...> More at link.

[proverbialwisdom]

36. Heads-up.

http://www.ellsberg.net/archive/a-memory-of-howard-zinn

A Memory of Howard Zinn

by Michael Ellsberg on January 28, 2010

...Then one of the officers came over to Howard and said, "You're Professor Zinn, aren't you?" Howard said yes, and the officer reached down and shook his hand enthusiastically. He said, "I heard you lecture at the Police Academy. A lot of us here did. That was a wonderful lecture." Howard had been asked to speak to them about the role of dissent and civil disobedience in American history. Several other policemen came over to pay their respects to Howard and thank him for his lecture. The mood seemed quite a bit different from Washington...

-----

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/protest-works-just-look-a_b_781339.html

Protest Works. Just Look at the Evidence -- And Start to Fight Back

By Johann Hari
Columnist for the London Independent
Posted: November 9, 2010 10:30 PM

...And protest can have an invisible ripple effect that lasts for generations. A small group of women from Iowa lost their sons early in the Vietnam war, and they decided to set up an organization of mothers opposing the assault on the country. They called a protest of all mothers of serving soldiers outside the White House - and six turned up in the snow. Even though later in the war they became nationally important voices, they always remembered that protest as an embarrassment and a humiliation.

Until, that is, one day in the 1990s ( http://www.amazon.com/Hope-Dark-Untold-Histories-Possibilities/dp/1560258284/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1289359538&sr=1-1 ), one of them read the autobiography of Benjamin Spock, the much-loved and trusted celebrity doctor, who was the Oprah of his day. When he came out against the war in 1968, it was a major turning point in American public opinion. And he explained why he did it. One day, he had been called to a meeting at the White House to be told how well the war in Vietnam was going, and he saw six women standing in the snow with placards, alone, chanting. It troubled his conscience and his dreams for years. If these women were brave enough to protest, he asked himself, why aren't I? It was because of them that he could eventually find the courage to take his stand - and that in turn changed the minds of millions, and ended the war sooner. An event that they thought was a humiliation actually turned the course of history.

You don't know what the amazing ripple effect of your protest will be - but wouldn't America be a better place if it replaced the ripple of impotent anger so many of you are feeling? Yes, you can sit back and let yourself be ripped off the bankers and the corporations and their political lackeys if you want. But it's an indulgent fiction to believe that is all you can do. You can act in your own self-defense. As Margaret Mead, the great democratic campaigner, said: "Never doubt that small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

[Shagbark Hickory]

40. I agree. They already know how we feel and they don't care. nm

[UrbScotty]

2. Indeed. We need to let the world know we support the President's efforts to

accomplish all of this!

:patriot:

[FirstLight]

3. when is the vote?

maybe we should start showing up now and pull a "wisconsin" :evilgrin:

Gawd, If I had the money for a ticket, i'd be there!
so many of us are hanging on by a thread, they know we can't just up & go to washington...
bastards

[trueblue2007]

4. throw together impromtu HUGE marches .... complete with

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xmckWVPRaI


WE'RE NOT GONNA TAKE IT!!!

[Better Believe It]

8. A Call for a March on Washington for Jobs, Hope and Real Change

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1461067&mesg_id=1461067

[global1]

28. How About Combining A March With A National Jobs Telethon?........

Check out this link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1463044

Some people can afford to get to D.C. the ones that don't can participate in the comfort of their home by supporting the National Jobs Telethon.

[randr]

9. What we need is a leader!

[Better Believe It]

15. We need leadership, not just a leader!

[elocs]

13. Nice thought, but it won't happen. This is not the glory protest days of the 1960s either. n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Marching is nice, but what we need is MOVEMENT politics

marching is part of it... you want to really scare the power elite? Strikes... on top of demonstrations. People need to take to the streets and NOT leave them.

[brooklynite]

22. Can you describe a single instance of how "movement politics"...

...has had a significant policy effect since the 1960's? I can't think of one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

39. Because we haven't had movement politics

Duh!

[brooklynite]

43. What's your definition?

I can remember the "no-nukes" movement in the 80's and and the anti-war efforts in 2002-2003. Neither seems to have a major impact in turning public opinions. Conversely, the conservative "Marches for Life" don't seem to have radically changed the national policy on abortion rights.

[nadinbrzezinski]

46. The nuclear was the closest to a true movement politics

Also, like the civil rights movement, that climaxed in the 60's, they can take a couple generations.

1.- Sufragist movement, took two generations.

2.- Organized labor, took three generations

3.- Women's Rights partially successful, two generations

Anti nuke movement not close to a generation...the anti war movement should have morphed fully into a full movement, it did not.

What is it that Santayana wrote? I realize that any real movement starting now will NOT bear fruit in my lifetime.

[SDuderstadt]

25. Oh, yes!

A REALLY huge march, then strikes and demonstrations!

We'll scare that big, bad "power elite"!

[Honeycombe8]

32. Are you union? Reason I ask is...most people can't afford to leave work and lose pay...

in order to "strike." In fact, there is not right to strike in the non-union world. I would be fired.

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. That was the case in the 1880s, 1890s, 1900s...all the

Way to the new deal. People died. Here is news to you, in some Unions talking strike is a friable offense. It is time people LEARN the history and realize we are pretty much there, well except the uprisings and the dead.

[socialist_n_TN]

51. Well without a job, you can't afford your bills

so the banks lose their interest payment. Even better along WITH the withholding of labor.

Anyway, if it's done right, even if you WANT to scab, you're not able to. As to legalities, the ENTIRE legal system is set up to screw the working class. So what? That just means some folks get arrested. I've been arrested before. You survive it. And it's not much of a cause if it's not worth being arrested for.

[Lucian]

35. We need a shutdown.

All union members, those getting screwed by the wealthy, and basically everyone but the richest top 1% needs to be out on the streets. A full shutdown of all services will get their attention.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. We need more than that. Once they can weather

Where movement politics come in.

[socialist_n_TN]

48. What nadin said...........

Strikes, lots of them WITH protest. Loud, raucous, IMPOLITE protests. They need to SEE and feel our anger. In short, they need to fear us. They won't fear us if we don't fuck with their money.

[SDuderstadt]

17. So...

what's stopping you?

Seriously.

[trueblue2007]

19. the big organization to get it started. MOVE ON???

[SDuderstadt]

21. Why is everyone waiting for a...

big organization?

Or, is that people like to talk a lot?

[socialist_n_TN]

55. As a member of MoveOn, I can tell you

that is not a radical enough organization to organize something like this. Now, MoveOn MIGHT (and I stress the MIGHT) support a general strike, if enough other orgs got there first, but they wouldn't try and start it. Although many members of MoveOn are pretty radical, the org itself is center-left.

No, a strike will have to start with the trade unions. And the MEMBERSHIP of the trade unions at that. The leadership won't do ANYTHING unless they're pressured by the membership.

[OnionPatch]

20. YES! Now more than ever before.

I'm in.

[Honeycombe8]

26. College students can protest. Working people don't have the time or money.

To begin with, most of them don't live in the area of Washington, D.C.

I don't think college students are tuned in much to what's happening. And of those that are, I think they ARE concerned about the deficit that they'll have to pay, and about whether SS and Medicare will be there for them. So they may not be against so-called reforms to those programs.

But I wish there would be a large protest. If it were local, I'd go, if it weren't on a work day.

[Lucian]

34. I like this and I agree with it.

Change needs to come, and it needs to come NOW.

[Hubert Flottz]

37. K&R

And in every other town across America.

[pipi_k]

44. Yeah, OK...

It's all well and good to say "WE NEED A MARCH AND WE NEED IT NOW!!!"

Who's going to organize it?

If I'm wrong I'll be the first to apologize, but as far as I can tell, nothing at all will happen, despite the squeaking coming from the peanut gallery.

I say the people who think these things up should be the ones to get them going.

So what are your plans? What's your strategy for organizing a gigantic march on DC?


People come up with these brilliant ideas here on what WE should do, and there's lots of "Yeah, I'm in!!" but nobody ever seems willing (or able) to actually put these ideas into action.

[Freddie Stubbs]

47. Like the huge protests and general strike in Greece?

How effective was that?

[Kingofalldems]

59. Don't march then

[TBF]

61. It's not like it's over - have you been paying attention at all? nt

[greytdemocrat]

49. Yeah!!!

NO BLOOD FOR OIL!!!

Oh wait...

[Javaman]

50. I have thought long and hard about this...

1) it would never be covered by the press

2) it's been done before and blatantly ignored.

Personally speaking, if you want to create a statement, the best way to protest would be to: Stage a protest in every single municipality, regardless of party.

If there is a nationwide protest of the likes that happened in Wisconsin, Ohio and Florida, then and only then will the government shit a brick and listen to us.

the grand march on Washington is nothing more than a stunt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. The press has never covered them

So what?

[Javaman]

53. And you stopped reading after that part...

whatever.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. No, but that is a common excuse

Look supressing the people and ignoring the people is actually older than the united states. Every time the people have gained anything it has taken at times two to three generations of work...

What can I say? That's the historian in me. At times that suppressing leads to minor things like yes...the Revolution. What can I say?

[Hotler]

56. I have mine. Fuck the rest of you.

I will not take to the streets until I lose my job. Oh wait I don't have a job. Never mind I'll just sit behind my keyboard and bitch were it is safe. Now where is my slurpee and bag of Cheetos.

[Javaman]

60. And again, it appears as if you didn't read past the first couple of lines.

whatever.

[felix_numinous]

57. Labor Day

would be a great day to aim for. There are enough unemployed people to make a point, IMHO.

It could be a Solidarity March--everyone standing together against the Corporatists, and for FDRs 2nd Bill of Rights to be the Democratic Platform of 2012.

Most importantly, we need to PETITION President Obama and pressure our representatives to see and hear us, with the MOST RESPECT and focusing on the issues.

The list of grievances is LONG, but in order to be effective we have to go after the head of the monster-the Corporatists. They are standing in the way of everything:

Health Education and Welfare
Union busting
Outsourcing jobs
The endless war on terror
MIC/PIC, war profiteering and police state
Separation of Church and State,
War on Drugs,
Hate Crimes,
Women's Rights,
Freedom of the Press, Murdoch, Fox-propaganda creating dysfunctional country
Corporate Ecocide, Monsanto,s Nuclear Fallout

Name an issue and it has to do with the Corporatist Robber Barons and profiteers who stole trillions and are holding this country hostage while they plan to take more from us by stealing our basic human rights. We can stand UNITED and demand REPRESENTATION.

This is how I visualize it :) PLUS-- maybe some DUers will finally meet face to face, what could be better?

[LiberalEsto]

58. It's on October 6

October 6 Stop the Machine Rally in Freedom Plaza
Washington, DC
2011-10-06, all day
Location: Freedom Plaza, east of the White House
For more information: http://october2011.org/

October 2011 is the 10th anniversary of the invasion of Afghanistan and the beginning of the 2012 federal austerity budget. It is time to light the spark that sets off a true democratic, nonviolent transition to a world in which people are freed to create just and sustainable solutions. We call on people of conscience and courage—all who seek peace, economic justice, human rights and a healthy environment—to join together in Washington, D.C., beginning on Oct. 6, 2011, in nonviolent resistance similar to the Arab Spring and the Midwest awakening.

[donheld]

62. We need to forget any and all marches on Washington. Instead

we should have people nationwide march on their State Capitols, US Senate offices US House members offices and THE NEWS MEDIA. Marches on Washington are totally ignored and besides many cannot afford to travel thousands of miles to get to Washington. Having something in EVERY state and EVERY major city makes more sense to me.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

63. And like all liberal/left marches......

It will....

1) Be co-opted by every special interest group that wants pot legalized, Mumia freed....etc. etc....

2) Ignored by the right controlled media that only finds teabagging marches endearing and American.