I would have more trust in Obama during these debt ceiliing negotiations except for one thing,

[MadHound]

The plain and simple fact that he has a history of caving, of not fighting, of not standing up for what the people want and what he said, at one time, that he wanted as well.

We see this repeating pattern starting with the non-fight over the public option, we saw him cave miserably on the tax cut extensions, and on the budget "crisis".

So, given this record of his, why should I believe that this time it's going to be different. After all, he has blatantly signaled that he is willing to take the unthinkable, the unDemocratic step of cutting Social Security and Medicare benefits. He has formed commissions to study this move, he has stated he is willing to consider this move. And he has that record of caving.

So why should I believe that this time is going to be different, that this time he really is playing multi-diminsional chess with a run of Texas Hold-em going on the side.

That kind of trust, that leap of faith is Grand Canyon size.

That is why I'm outraged at his current direction, I've seen this show far too many times already.

[yourout]

1. He really has capitulated him self into a corner....history says if the Pukes keep pushing...

he will fold up like a pair of deuces.

Now when he says he is holding this line the Pukes will push him and push him and push him knowing he will eventually cave.

If had played hardball somewhere along the line even if it meant he did not get something he wanted done negotiating would be a great deal easier.

[MadHound]

2. Yep,

He should have come out punching on either the public option or the tax cut extensions. It would have backed the 'Pugs right off. You don't negotiate with bullies, you let 'em have it.

[ProSense]

3. All those

caves: health care reform, Wall Street reform.

I still wonder what would have happened to unemployment benefits in a Republican Congress? Too bad the President caved.

Yeah, expanding the Bush tax cuts sucked, but imagine the other parts of the deal that would never have been enacted: unemployment benefits, additional Medicaid funding, EITC, etc.

Even if one imagined a scenario in which Republicans extended unemployment with no lapse in benefits and for a year (fat chance), does anyone really believe that the other critical funding and tax credits would have had a chance of passing?

There was an article recently about the Medicaid funding from the deal expiring (it was for six months). The President gets no credit for at least securing the additional appropriations, but he will get criticized for the expiration. Where's Congress? Where are the Congressional leaders who wanted to leave these benefits to the GOP?

[MadHound]

4. Where is the fight in him?

We have yet to see it. He caved on the public option and turned HCR into a mandated nightmare. Wall St. reform, most of the experts laugh at how weak it is.

And caving two weeks before the end of the session, classic.

You can try and spin it anyway you want, but the fact of the matter is that the man either can't or won't fight, and in politics, in the WH, that's a huge liability. One that is costing us dearly.

[yourout]

5. Amen....

[ProSense]

6. Hmmm?

"He caved on the public option and turned HCR into a mandated nightmare."

Not everyone agrees. The health care law represents true progress.

[Bluenorthwest]

10. Candidate Obama agreed. He called mandates 'stupid' and

unnecessary, he said that trying to solve the healtcare crisis by mandating the purchase of health insurance is like trying to solve homelessness by mandating that everybody buy a house. He said Hillary was going after your wallet with mandates. He was as strongly opposed to them as he could have been. So, by his own campaign standards, he failed, and put in place a stupid plan that goes after your wallet.
He also said that any bill he signed had to include a strong public option, and that turned out not to be the truth at all, he signed without one, never pushed for one, and eventually claimed that he never ran on the public option at all.
So blue link to you, too!

[ProSense]

12. "He said Hillary was going after your wallet with mandates. "

Hillary wanted to garnish wages. So he was being a politician.

[Bluenorthwest]

16. Shall I repeat all that about solving homelessness by mandating

home purchase again? That was what he said. Those were his standards. He failed to meet them. Those are his words, some of the many many words he expended in expressing his strong and unflinching opposition to mandated purchase of private products. Which he then supported, without much of a word about it. He failed to achieve what he said he wanted to achieve. The end.

[ProSense]

21. Maybe

taking off-the-cuff political analogies literally isn't the best thing to do. There are variables.

[Dept of Beer]

20. But you glossed over this...

"He also said that any bill he signed had to include a strong public option, and that turned out not to be the truth at all, he signed without one, never pushed for one, and eventually claimed that he never ran on the public option at all. "

[ProSense]

22. Actually,

"He also said that any bill he signed had to include a strong public option, and that turned out not to be the truth at all, he signed without one, never pushed for one, and eventually claimed that he never ran on the public option at all."

...no glossing needed. He signed the bill because it would have been moronic to veto his own health care law. Demanding a public option during the negotiation stages to push Congress toward that goal was the right thing to do. Vetoing it because Congress failed to include a public option would have been idiotic.

[Dept of Beer]

24. Now it's his own law?? Really??

There certainly is a disconnect in terms of the branches of government.


You do understand that he's the Executive. He doesn't write the laws. He's the leader of the party.

Leader means LEAD.

He had the right to veto the bill, but instead he chose not to after explicitly saying; "He would not sign a bill without a public option." Period.

No excuses.

[Bandit]

32. Is he no longer a politician?

He LIES, get used to it.....

[The Big Vetolski]

41. No, he was being a liar. At least Hillary was being honest. And

before you call me a PUMA, one major reason I voted for Obama in the primary over Hillary was because he said in a debate he was OPPOSED to health insurance mandates.

He freakin' LIED on that one. There's no other way to look at it. He didn't even exaggerate. He just flat out lied.

[Dept of Beer]

18. All I can say is

+1000

[bhikkhu]

23. There weren't enough votes in congress for the public option

I don't know how many times this needs to be said. Its not caving if you get the best possible bill pushed through the congress that you have, and against all odds and all predictions at that.

If you want an example of not caving, look at the raft he got pushed through congress just before the end of the last session, and look at the last round of budget negotiations - where there was no end of hair-on-fire here about how he was going to cave, and he negotiated that out much better than anyone's expectations. Trust is earned - I think he's done that.

[MadHound]

27. Except there was no fight for the public option

Hate LBJ as much as I do, one thing the man can and did do was fight for what was important to him. With Obama, we saw no bully pulpit, no taking the fight into opponents home state and beating them about the head for obstruction of a popular policy, none of that.

No fight, and your referral to the tax cut extension debacle, and the budget debacle doesn't make your case for him. Those are two prime examples of how he has caved, in the case of tax cuts, two plus weeks out.

[bhikkhu]

30. There was a huge fight over the public option

It was like the current one, which went on for weeks behind the scenes, and we didn't get a lot of the day-to-day stuff. Generally I'd hear on the news that the administration was trying every angle and pulling every string they had, but most people in DC, including all the repugs, thought the bill in any form had no chance.

Afterwards we found out that Obama had 59 votes for the public option; Lieberman was the last guy but he was unmovable on it, and the bill we have is the best one possible that would get 60 votes.

[The Big Vetolski]

42. Behind the scenes does not count. nt

[donheld]

45. He only showed fight when it came to Hillary, and

no I'm not a PUMA. I supported Obama in the primary. My DU track record backs me up.

[Mojorabbit]

11. IT is all in the framing and that has not been

used well by this administration. Getting out there with your message, rallying the population, framing the issue. Not done at all. It makes all the difference. The tax cuts did not need to be tied to unemployment benefits. That was the right's frame. Same with this mess.

[joeybee12]

34. Please stop saying health care reform and wall street reform

are really reform...I'm embarrassed for you.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brooklynite]

8. So, protecting unemployment insurance for millions is defined as "caving"

Thanks for clearing that up. I would have described it as "negotiating".

[Bluenorthwest]

13. Left out the 99'ers. If you win is one element, you need to get the

entire element. The unemployed people I know did not get any more, they were not protected, and there were millions like them, every American knew one. That 'negotiation' was half won and did not play well on the streets of the nation because of the people left out. 'We are protecting some of those who need protecting, but not others' is not a really good slogan. Does not play.

[noiretextatique]

40. i am so pissed about the UI extensions...dollar amounts, not weeks

in CA, you get an extension that is a specific dollar amount, so if you use all of the money, you get ZERO, even if you are still unemployed. so, my next UI check will be $166.00 instead of $900.00, we leaves me short $734.00. the extensions should be based on weeks, not dollar amounts. i am FUCKED until the next extension...if i have one. i cannot pay rent, but at least i will be able to buy food. so...whoever came up with this extension scheme, which only adds further stress and harm to people already suffering in this economy: FUCK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Nothing Without Hope]

9. he's a corporatist. His definition of "unthinkable" is different. n/t

[Toucano]

43. +1 n/t

[somone]

14. Obama prefers to fight Democrats, not Republicans

[slay]

15. Sad but true

i'm utterly disappointed in the man.

[Bobbie Jo]

28. So does DU, apparently.

[Solomon]

37. LOL WELL PLAYED!!!!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[AtomicKitten]

38. So it would seem. nt

[EFerrari]

17. Obama has shown too much contempt for voters

for me to trust him with much of anything.

He was calling his own base names before he was even seated. He laughed at people who want to stop prohibition when he held his first cyber townhall, he uses authoritarian statements like "eat your peas" instead of straight statements to the American public.

If you told me on Inauguration Day, I'd feel like this today, I probably would not have believed you.

[woo me with science]

33. Yup. And don't forget the public guffawing about TSA policies

that humiliate and dominate Americans and drenched a cancer patient in his own urine.

IMO the most important recent post on DU was this one that identified the new modus operandi of manufacturing crises so that legislation must be created urgently and passed before Americans have a chance to weigh in at all: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1467681

The Bush tax cuts were extended because of a false, urgent tethering to the unemployment benefits issue. Now our "representatives" are behind closed doors, where we cannot see what they are doing or have any input whatsoever, until August 2, when they will again emerge with a done deal that that must be passed immediately to avoid catastrophe.

This is becoming a pattern and a way to completely bypass the American people in creating and pushing through legislation that the rich and powerful would prefer. The sooner we recognize and label this "shock doctrine" strategy for what it is, the better.

We're constantly being told what is best for us, despite what polls show Americans overwhelmingly want. All of this contempt needs to be repaid at the ballot box.

[EFerrari]

35. A done deal in August and then, they're gone for three weeks.

This started with the Patriot Act, didn't it? Yes, they're exploiting this tactic to the hilt, agreed.

[in_cog_ni_to]

19. Henry Waxman is saying the same thing right about now.

<snip>
“If you’re not going to cave, eliminating that misunderstanding is very, very important to the negotiations,” the lawmaker said, retelling Waxman’s message. “And if you’re going to cave, tell us right now.”

Obama, however, “didn’t answer the question,” the Democrat added. “Obama got in a huff, and he said, ‘I’m the president of the United States, my words carry weight’ — which is not the answer,” the lawmaker said. “That’s not what anyone challenges. It’s whether he is doing this negotiation in the right way.”<snip>

http://thehill.com/homenews/house/168713-house-democrats-feel-jilted-by-the-president

I think we now know WHY he didn't answer that question. Henry Waxman was right in asking it too. :( We've been down this road waaaay too many times already.

[NCarolinawoman]

26. Well that's interesting... and a bit disgusting..

Reminds me of Bush saying, "I'm the Decider!"

[scarletwoman]

29. +1,000

[Marr]

25. Because Lawrence O'Donnell had a theory and he was really excited about it, of course.

Lots of moving parts. Almost like a Glenn Beck theory, but without a chalkboard. Anyway, just embrace it and feel the warmth.

[dionysus]

31. lol, you can set your clock by these posts...

:rofl:

[LiberalEsto]

36. It's like Charlie Brown, Lucy and the football

Some things never change.

[fascisthunter]

39. Well Stated

[amborin]

44. too many betrayals to warrant trust