He Is Their Creature

[JFN1]

Sorry, but you don't get to have it both ways - not in a world of consequence.

Barack Obama cannot be both the leader of our Democratic party, and upholder of those principles, morals, and values that define our Democratic platform - and in turn, define those of us who identify themselves as Democrats, while at the same time taking actions which can only be desribed as political, actions which directly contradict Democratic values.

Those who endlessly list Obama's "progressive" actions and accomplishments while simultaneously failing to acknowledge the much longer list of betrayals of progressive/liberal/Democratic ideals and capitulations to Republican/wealthy/corporate interests, are blind to the larger pattern of his actions; a larger pattern which suggests Obama's "progressive" actions are merely coinicidental to Democratic/liberal/progressive ideals - and are NOT the point.

Do you understand the difference? If not, please gather the following items: A picture of George W. Bush, a large rubber mallet, and any song by Alan Jackson after 2001 - you'll have better luck with these, than you will finishing this piece.

When debt ceiling "negotiations" are wrapped up, and an Obama mouthpiece announces the results to Americans and Cantor and Boehner are crowing and cackling the results to an adoring media, I have no doubt whatsoever SS and Medicare and who knows what else of our social safety net, WILL BE DAMAGED.

Why am I so certain of this?

Because our President, our Democratic leader, our hope for meaningful change, is not "ours."

Barack Obama performs his actions as President and leader of the Democratic party for monied interests; he answers to corporate interests, he acts on behalf of wealth and privilage and power.

There is no true consistency in Obama's presidency, nor is there a moral thread binding his actions together.

And perhaps worst of all, there is no long-term thinking evident in Obama's actions - most of what he has done, and continues to do, seems opportunistic and insincere.

[struggle4progress]

1. This is a silly point of view. We face political struggles, which necessarily require large numbers

of well-prepared political fighters; it is our task to develop the knowledge base and analysis and skills and agenda for those struggles

Obama is not our dictator; he is not a superman; he is one person in a particular structural slot, and his role in that slot is to do what he can do given the current balance of forces. It is unreasonable to expect him to do more than can be done at the present moment, given existing political realities: it is our task to change the existing political realities and to change the current balance of forces

[JFN1]

3. "It is unreasonable to expect him to do more than can be done"

Wholeheartedly disagree with this interpretation...Obama has not even approached what can be done - he continues to run from what merely should be done...

[Name removed]

11. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[divvy]

17. wow ... now that is a winning strategy.

Just stay home would be the strategy of the republican party ...... no?

Maybe you should have that bump on your head looked at.

[sendero]

81. "Winning strategy"?

Winning WHAT? WE WON and we got NOTHING. I will not vote for Obama again, he talks better than a Republican but that is all.

[robinlynne]

123. Yeah, I loved "the tax cuts will not be renewed again on my watch". great soundbite.

[sendero]

134. And factually incorrect...

..... like 90% of what comes out of Obama's mouth.

This dude is a stake in the heart for the Democratic brand, everything Democrats stand for.

[hfojvt]

92. this from thecampaign that said "yes we can"

Now his great selling point is "he did what could be done" and didn't even try to do the things that should have been done.

How do you know what can be done until you try. Until you leave it all out on the playing (or battle) field? You don't go out there on the football field, take a knee for your first play, then punt on 2nd down and then try to tell your fans that the quarterback "did what could be done". Well, their defense is just too good, we were never gonna get a first down. Well, how do you know until you run three plays?

[1StrongBlackMan]

149. With all due respect ...

Since you seem to know what can be done in this environment, when do you run for office ... let alone the presidency.

I get so tired of reading bulletin board cowboys (girls) proclaiming what CAN BE done, when they (presumably) have never even approached the environment ... most of us have not.

It's like those pro football fans in the stands or at home, screaming out the plays to the TV, that the coach/Quarterback SHOULD BE running, having never played the game at the pro level.

I know it makes us feel better, but it accomplishes nothing productive.

[cui bono]

165. We can see if he is actually trying to accomplish things, nevermind what plays he uses.

And we saw that he hasn't tried for anything much at all. He doesn't fight for anything. He doesn't even bring up what he supposedly really wants when he starts "negotiating" with the Republicans. He comes to the table having already given away too much, then proceeds to give away more.

We can easily see that without needing to be in office.

[Enthusiast]

63. He has not even gone to bat for us.

He should be in front of a mike every day screaming about how two wars, medicare part D and that tax cuts for millionaires caused the deficit. I can write the damn script for him. But you know what? He isn't on our side. He isn't on our side AT ALL. He could single handedly fix the problem by using the bully pulpit. The press can't simply ignore the president.

[JDPriestly]

73. Obama offered my Social Security on the table to pay for debts

from which I did not benefit. How dare he. He is tearing the country apart, pitting rich against poor, old against young.

He could have stood up solidly for the poor and for the old who have no future no matter what.

I consider what he is doing -- compromising at the expense of the poor, the disabled, the elderly -- to be cowardly and immoral.

He isn't even placing the blame for the deficit on its cause -- the excesses of Wall Street that led to the unemployment and the Bush tax cuts.

Let those who profited from the Wall Street excesses (the banks and the CEOs of big companies) and the rich who enjoyed playing with their tax cuts -- pay for the deficit reduction.

I did not cause the deficit reduction. Few on DU benefited from the deficit at all. Why should we be asked to pay for it? Obama is absolutely wrong in not arguing more strongly for what is right here.

He has accepted the Republican argument that the primary issue is the deficit.

That is not the primary issue. The key to all our problems is changing our trade policy so that we have jobs, real jobs -- making things other people need.

Obama is way, way, way off. He is wrong. He is a sneaky Republican. I wish he would just come out of the closet and announce that he is switching parties. It would at least be honest.

[KoKo]

83. Sadly...as each new speech and each new Press Conference unfolds...

it reveals more and more of what's going on.

Here's from his transcript of Monday's Presser and his joke to Sam Stein is very telling about his character:



The White House

Office of the Press Secretary
For Immediate Release
July 11, 2011
Press Conference by the President
James S. Brady Press Briefing Room

11:15 A.M. EDT

THE PRESIDENT: Good morning, everybody. I want to give a quick update on what's happening with the debt negotiations, provide my perspective, and then I'm going to take a few questions.



First of all, all of us agree that we should use this opportunity to do something meaningful on debt and deficits. And the reports that have been out there have been largely accurate that Speaker Boehner and myself had been in a series of conversations about doing the biggest deal possible so that we could actually resolve our debt and our deficit challenge for a long stretch of time. And I want to say I appreciate Speaker Boehner's good-faith efforts on that front.

What I emphasized to the broader group of congressional leaders yesterday is now is the time to deal with these issues. If not now, when? I've been hearing from my Republican friends for quite some time that it is a moral imperative for us to tackle our debt and our deficits in a serious way. I've been hearing from them that this is one of the things that's creating uncertainty and holding back investment on the part of the business community. And so what I've said to them is, let's go. And it is possible for us to construct a package that would be balanced, would share sacrifice, would involve both parties taking on their sacred cows, would involved some meaningful changes to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid that would preserve the integrity of the programs and keep our sacred trust with our seniors, but make sure those programs were there for not just this generation but for the next generation; that it is possible for us to bring in revenues in a way that does not impede our current recovery, but is fair and balanced.

We have agreed to a series of spending cuts that will make the government leaner, meaner, more effective, more efficient, and give taxpayers a greater bang for their buck. That includes defense spending. That includes health spending. It includes some programs that I like very much, and we -- be nice to have, but that we can’t afford right now.

And if you look at this overall package, we could achieve a situation in which our deficits were at a manageable level and our debt levels were stabilized, and the economy as a whole I think would benefit from that. Moreover, I think it would give the American people enormous confidence that this town can actually do something once in a while; that we can defy the expectations that we’re always thinking in terms of short-term politics and the next election, and every once in a while we break out of that and we do what’s right for the country.

So I continue to push congressional leaders for the largest possible deal. And there's going to be resistance. There is, frankly, resistance on my side to do anything on entitlements. There is strong resistance on the Republican side to do anything on revenues. But if each side takes a maximalist position, if each side wants 100 percent of what its ideological predispositions are, then we can’t get anything done. And I think the American people want to see something done. They feel a sense of urgency, both about the breakdown in our political process and also about the situation in our economy.


----------------------

With respect to Social Security, as I indicated earlier, making changes to these programs is so difficult that this may be an opportunity for us to go ahead and do something smart that strengthens Social Security and gives not just this generation but future generations the opportunity to say this thing is going to be in there for the long haul.

Now, that may not be possible and you’re absolutely right that, as I said, Social Security is not the primary driver of our long-term deficits and debt. On the other hand, we do want to make sure that Social Security is going to be there for the next generations, and if there is a reasonable deal to be had on it, it is one that I’m willing to pursue.

Q Are there things with respect to Social Security, like raising the retirement age, means testing -- are those too big a chunk for --

THE PRESIDENT: I’m probably not going to get into the details, Sam, right now of negotiations. I might enjoy negotiating with you, but I don’t know how much juice you’ve got in the Republican caucus. (Laughter.) That’s what I figured.


-------------

I mean, the vast majority of Democrats on Capitol Hill would prefer not to have to do anything on entitlements; would prefer, frankly, not to have to do anything on some of these debt and deficit problems. And I’m sympathetic to their concerns, because they’re looking after folks who are already hurting and already vulnerable, and there are a lot of families out there and seniors who are dependant on some of these programs.

And what I’ve tried to explain to them is, number one, if you look at the numbers, then Medicare in particular will run out of money and we will not be able to sustain that program no matter how much taxes go up. I mean, it’s not an option for us to just sit by and do nothing. And if you’re a progressive who cares about the integrity of Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid, and believes that it is part of what makes our country great that we look after our seniors and we look after the most vulnerable, then we have an obligation to make sure that we make those changes that are required to make it sustainable over the long term.

And if you’re a progressive that cares about investments in Head Start and student loan programs and medical research and infrastructure, we’re not going to be able to make progress on those areas if we haven’t gotten our fiscal house in order.

So the argument I’m making to my party is, the values we care about -- making sure that everybody in this country has a shot at the American Dream and everybody is out there with the opportunity to succeed if they work hard and live a responsible life, and that government has a role to play in providing some of that opportunity through things like student loans and making sure that our roads and highways and airports are functioning, and making sure that we’re investing in research and development for the high-tech jobs of the future -- if you care about those things, then you’ve got to be interested in figuring out how do we pay for that in a responsible way.

And so, yeah, we’re going to have a sales job; this is not pleasant. It is hard to persuade people to do hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues. But the reason we’ve got a problem right now is people keep on avoiding hard things, and I think now is the time for us to go ahead and take it on.

Official Transcript from the White House.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/07/11/press-conference-president

[defendandprotect]

120. We should have had a RECALL on Obama ... the day he eloped into WH with Koch/DLC Rahm Emmanuel --

and after the Wall Street Dream Team he picked -- !!

Obams is a continuing threat to Social Security and Medicate --

and I'd suggest he's a threat to the will of the people --


80% of the public wants an end to the wars --

76% of Americans and more want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

[Richardo]

126. A recall? Are you REALLY that uninformed?

Jesus.

[defendandprotect]

142. Yeah, I know we don't have a RECALL -- but we should ... Obama's made that clear -- !!

[JDPriestly]

174. It is absurd to talk about insuring stability in the economy while

cutting Social Security and Medicare. The benefits provided by those two programs to seniors are immediately recirculated into the economy here in America. The Bush tax cuts for upper income people are often simply offshored or placed in idle bank accounts.

Social Security checks in particular are spent as soon as they come in the door. They help move the economy. The Bush tax cuts do nothing for the economy.

Obama is completely wrong in his analysis on this. He does not have a feel for economics at all. It's just pitiful. I bet he struggled with his math concepts.

[neoralme]

179. Be careful, JD. You're talking awfully frankly. This is all getting

real strange. One question. Do you think Obama is trying for a default, so that post default agreements can be made that cut both SS and Medicare, which might be easier since they have now already been cut? The president could then say that that was the only option remaining to him.

[Doctor_J]

99. His "political struggles" could be eased greatly

by grabbing his sac and acting on behalf of the 70,000,000 people who voted for him instead of trying to appease "independents" by giving away core Dem principles. Your argument is absurd.

[bowens43]

108. It is unreasonable to expect him to even try to keep his word?

Bullshit. The political reality is we have a president who either lied to get elected or is so completely spineless and inept that he does exactly what he is told to do by the money that controls Washington.

[FedUp_Queer]

112. Exactly.

The president is just another guy...just another cog in the wheel. It's not like he has an instant national forum or his own, instant 330,000,000 "revival tent" he can speak to. Because of this, what we need to do is give him large majorities in both the House and Senate. THEN...baby watch out...change we can believe in.

:sarcasm:

[patrice]

114. Be prepared to see any thread you post to around here un-recced. nt

[struggle4progress]

133. I learned my political techniques from folk who thought the grassroots had real responsibilities

beyond bitchin-n-whinin

If some people here disapprove, so be it

[patrice]

137. I'm here to support sanity, but it does get to be a heavy load. So much sloppy logic; it makes

you wonder what the f-ing hell is going on.

Every Fox News rhetorical device in the book is at play here on the DU.

It's not that I can't stand people who disagree with me.

It IS that I can't stand fucked up thinking, because it IS dangerous.

I'll back you up when I see you around, struggle4progress, and I'll be more polite than I have been in this thread tonight. OP arrogance just freaked me out.

[caseymoz]

163. Excuse my critique, but that sounds like your support is on its last legs.

I'd like to point out that your point about "well-prepared political fighters," is totally at odds to what you describe Obama as doing in your second paragraph. ". . . his role in that slot is to do what he can given the current balance of forces." Say what? What does "doing what he can" mean? Is doing what you can putting Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid on the chopping block just to get Repubs to do the minimally common-sense, sane thing. That's not doing what he can, and nobody here would have voted for him if they had known he'd be offering to cut those.

How are you going to energize well-prepared fighters when he's fulfilling his "role" by doing this?

Don't tell me it's somehow a great strategy. It'll be terribly ironic, and painful if the government defaults and US politics turns Democratic as a result. Our party would earn that victory on luck, not Obama's strategy.

[struggle4progress]

168. I don't think you understood a word I said: I guess I'll just have to keep trying

[caseymoz]

172. Odd to say that and then nothing else.

Where's the "keep trying" part of that?

I'm not trying to troll you, but it invites curiosity when you say "you didn't understand, I'll keep trying," and then nothing else.

I'll have to reread it tomorrow. If I didn't understand it several hours ago, 1 a.m. is no time to try again.

[struggle4progress]

186. it is OUR task to change the existing political realities and the current balance of forces

[agent46]

2. There is no question

Obama himself declared that he is a "new Democrat." Reflect on what he means by that and it all comes clear.

[divvy]

19. nice point

It all became clear ...

[chervilant]

65. Whatever he means,

I don't like it.

[defendandprotect]

160. kr

[Tunkamerica]

4. creature? couldn't think of a better descriptor?

[JFN1]

9. delete - dupe

dupe, sorry.

[JFN1]

10. It is quite deliberate.

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creature_of_statute)

Creatures of statute (also known as creatures of the state) are legal entities, such as corporations, created by statute. Creatures of statute may include municipalities and other artificial legal entities or relationships.<1> Thus, when a statute in some fashion requires the formation of a corporate body—often for governmental purposes—such bodies when formed are known as "creatures of statute."
. . .
The importance of a corporate body, regardless of its exact function, when such a body is a creature of statute is that its active functions can only be within the scope detailed by the statute which created that corporation. Thereby, the creature of statute is the tangible manifestation of the functions or work described by a given statute. The jurisdiction of a body that is a creature of statute is also therefore limited to the functional scope written into the laws that created that body. Unlike most (private) corporate bodies, creatures of statute cannot expand their business interests into other diverse areas.

I thought the last part I quoted was particularly apropos to my use of the term...

[bhikkhu]

38. People who would rec an OP calling Obama a "creature" should be ashamed

And, yes, I do get the clever association there...very clever. Some people need to look in the mirror and think about who they really are.

[chervilant]

66. I recced,

and I'm not the least bit ashamed.

[MissDeeds]

95. Ditto

[hay rick]

90. Would you prefer "puppet"?

We are all "creatures" of habit. I don't think that's a particularly loaded word. The President owes his position- "is the creature of"- the people responsible for putting and keeping him in that position. We used our votes to put Obama in his current position and we then reasonably supposed that he would recognize and fight for our needs. We were wrong.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chervilant]

117. Not to mention

critical thinking skills and a firm refusal to snarf the Corporate Megalomaniacs' red herrings.

[defendandprotect]

121. What "clever association" ... are you suggesting something racist ... ???

[robinlynne]

125. Obama should be ashamed.

[defendandprotect]

129. +1 -- Would be nice to have a humanist in the White House ... someone who cared about poor ...

the unemployed, those without health care -- !!!

The homeless!!

[robinlynne]

132. what a concept, maybe someone with a background in community organizing?

How about a black man who understand what it is to be non-white in America, someone with a law degree. maybe even a constitutional scholar! What a dream that would be.
Oh wait, that's who he was supposed to be.

[defendandprotect]

141. They were great selling points ... thanks for the reminder--!!!

Obviously we misread the signals somewhere along the line!!

What knocked me out was that he was allegedly a Constitutional scholar -- or at

least taught Constitutional law -- and yet Obama saw "no reason to impeach Bush" -- !!!


Ah, the memories -- !!!

[inna]

5. People! LOL! Read Chomsky, seriously! None of it is some great fucking mystery.

And none of it (or very little, at least) has anything to do with Obama.

If it wasn't Obama, it would've been somebody else, probably someone worse if anything.



Anyway.... forget Obama; focus on issues.

[Doctor Hurt]

12. Chomsky? Yawn.

Even his linguistics work sucks.

[fasttense]

16. Ah, kill the messenger, what a RepubliCON type behavior.

But what can you do with people who worship psychopaths like Ayn Rand?

Here's hoping the corporate aristocracy goes Galt on Mars.

[bhikkhu]

36. Do you know someone who worships Ayn Rand? n/t

[JDPriestly]

74. Yes. Greenspan.

And he is the man who got us to this dismal place. Ayn Randers are a pestilence.

[liberation]

68. Do you even know what "linguistics" is?

LOL

[Ignis]

188. Oh, this should be entertaining.

Please describe--in your own words--how and why Chomsky's linguistic work is sub-par.

[pnwmom]

13. Focus on issues -- and focus on electing progressives to the House and Senate

and to state and local office.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. That is fine but some of us have completed that work and now

we have to do something. This constant yammering from the center that 'we' need to focus on Congress and locals is so amusing, the West Coast did not lose seats in 2010 as most of you did. We elected Democrats. We had record busting turn outs. So what, you think we should remain silent, or should we be coming to those 'swing' districts to help the 'Democrats' there do what they seem unable or unwilling to do on their own? What do you recommend?
Of course, issues wise, Obama is opposed to the basic equal rights of my community, he claims the same religious faith as the reason for that opposition as Bachmann and Palin claim, yet he sure as hell does not seem to think about 'God in the Mix' on financial issues, on war issues, and most pointedly, the 'Defender of the Sacrament' never, ever so much as mentions God or faith when yet another of his Straight Political Married Peers drags their 'Holy Union' through the gutter. Say 'gay' and he launches in to a sermon, say 'Adulterous Republican with long affairs and children on the side and he says NOTHING about 'God' or 'Sacraments' or his material about how straights have a 'spiritual element' that gays do not have. Why do you think that is? I say it is because 'marriage' means nothing to him, but gay really pisses him off. Taint a marriage, he slaps you on the back in a bipartisan manner. Ask for a marriage and he drools about how superior his sort of person is to some minorities. Hypocritical, inconsistent, vicious, heretical, exploitative and harmful to people you all should treat as neighbors and equals.
So, issues will work just fine. Gawd is in the Mix!

[defendandprotect]

130. +1 ---

but you'll have to share your secrets -- don't know if the conditions are

similar --

Many of us tried to change things -- certainly we should keep trying -- but

down to even town politics in my area, we have pay to play --

I'm in NJ --

I can't believe that anyone voted for Christie!!


And we're all still voting on computers!!!

I don't think there ever was a "Southern Strategy" -- I think there only ever was

computer steals --

I'd question every election back to Humphrey/Nixon!!

[bvar22]

50. We tried that in the Democratic Primary in Arkansas 2010.

The White House got very mad at us.
They threw all their Weight and Money (DNC, DSCC, White House Fund Raisers) behind the Anti-LABOR/Anti-HealthCare DLC Blue Dog,
Blanche (I've always depended on the kindness of Large Corporations) Lincoln.

The White House was so mad at us that they even sent The Old Dog back down to Arkansas
to kick some ass and beg for more money for the Corporate Elites.

And some people say that Obama can't play Hard Ball.

[chervilant]

67. All the while,

flying UNDER most people's radar, because--after all--most of the hoi polloi has been processed through the corporatists' co-opted system of public education that stifles critical thinking skills and punishes ANY dissent.

[ChiciB1]

54. I Am So Tired Of Hearing That We Should Work Locally To Elect Progressives

and all that goes with it. SOME OF US can't even come close to getting a Progressive candidate to run, and if one runs he/she WILL NOT EVER get elected!

SOME OF US live in places where the Repuke stronghold has been here for decades and has no likelihood of changing. I speak of where I live, in a very Ruby Red County that has been so since I've lived here!

The Supervisor of Elections here MUST have taken direct lessons from none other than Katherine "Cruella" Harris and she continually gets re-elected time after time. In fact, Katherine Harris was my Representative for two terms before she ran against Bill Nelson for Senate.

Our SOE is a witch who has had more negative articles written about her and how she runs her office, yet STILL she wins by large margins each time she runs for the same office. Any person who EVER gains ANY traction is ALWAYS beaten. I'm not the only person here that feels this way as many, many of my friends and neighbors have tried to communicate with her from time to time. Mostly she has her underlings deal with any problems. It's insane.

Vern Buchanan is my Congress Critter and he's about as corrupt as a politician can be. He's had numerous law suits filed against him for many, many years and STILL wins elections. He owns car dealerships! He was at the center of one of the most contentious elections in Florida. Christine Jennings, an (R) who changed to a (D) and hand picked by Rahm Emmanuel ran against him and it was "thought" that perhaps she would win. Even though she was at best a DINO/DLC type, she lost with 18,500 under votes or something else screwed up happening. The next time he ran against her, he won by a very large margin!

It's USELESS here to even think of electing anyone close to being a real Democrat, let alone a real Progressive. And to me, Progressive NOW means that you're moderate to right leaning at best.

IMO, those of us who knew Democrats as Democrats who really represented "people" simply no longer seem to exist! Sure there are still some, but very few. And most certainly NONE around me or where I live. I did try very hard to stay involved locally, but even the Democratic Party HERE is DINO at best. I don't fit in... and they are very, very weak.

I've had it and don't know WHAT to do. Just sit back and wait for the shit to hit the wall. And I DO believe it will, sooner rather than later.

JMHO!

[Fuddnik]

29. Just as good, try Democracy Incorporated by Sheldon Wolin.

Inverted Totalitarianism.

The system chooses the person unlike the reverse in totalitarianism.

[TNLib]

110. I agree with much of what you said But I still think he fucked the GOP

and I likie!!!

[defendandprotect]

128. We have to focus on the Trojan Horse they gave us -- and the issues -- !!!

Obama is the one who made the back room deals with Big Pharma --

Obama is the one who made back room deals with the private H/C industry --

Obama is the one who made deals to renew the Patriot Act --

Obama is the one who made deals to extend the Tax cuts for the rich --

Obama is the one who put the "Cat Food" Commission in place and appointed

the sleaze Alan Simpson -- notorious for his disdain for Social Security.

On and on, on and on -- you know the song!!




And we should also find out how much is left of the party after Koch Bros.

DLC infiltrated and influenced it for 20 years -- !!

Is there anything but a name left?

[JohnnyRingo]

6. Do you want me to vote Republican in 2012?

I'm not sure what you're suggesting we do, but I'd be too embarassed to put a "Democrat For Romney" sign in my yard, and I've never sat home during an election in my life. You can go ahead on your own.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a primary to run against him, you're way behind on finding someone in time. Maybe he can be the first president impeached for not being liberal enough. Let me know when the hearings begin.

I'm out of ideas, perhaps you have a solution you left out.

[pnwmom]

8. Exactly. If someone was planning on challenging him in a primary,

that someone would have started preparing long ago.

[joshcryer]

21. That is a good point, people who want another option than Obama don't have one.

Have to deal with it and take the lesser of two evils.

Then again maybe the third time is the charm and the country needs another Bush times a million and a congress and senate to boot, before people realize that voting for these vile people is not in their interest? :shrug:

[hay rick]

169. Choosing the lesser evil is fruitless.

Evil is still evil and endorsing the choice of the lesser evil almost surely will lead to similar dilemmas in the future. A political system that offers such a choice is clearly corrupt. More important than choosing the obvious lesser evil under these circumstances is delegitimizing the choice in the first place. Choosing the greater evil is more likely to accomplish that goal than choosing the lesser evil.

[JDPriestly]

78. Not necessarily. Surprise could be a great asset.

You have no idea how annoyed older Americans are going to be when they realize what the Boehner/Obama wrecking crew has in store for Social Security. No idea. Most don't yet realize what is going on.

I am going to attend the meetings of Rebuild the American Dream on the 17th. Check it out in your area. There are a lot of very upset people out here. I think we can finally get some change.

I would love to see Alan Grayson and Bernie Sanders run or a couple of the other great progressives we have. It's not too late, not at all.

It would normally be too late, but everything is different this year. People are engaged and worried. And unemployed people make great campaigners for progressive causes.

That's why politicians should know better than to try to run when unemployment is high. That's why their first concern should be unemployment, not the deficit.

I have never seen anything like the way that Obama and the Republicans are working together, colluding to distract us from the issue of unemployment. Unbelievable they are.

[placton]

34. puh-leeze!

stop trotting out the usual "so you want me to vote GOP?" bullshit. The writer clearly says why VOTE for Obama, when it is just like VOTING GOP.

[pnwmom]

37. puh-leeze!

Your premise is incorrect. The Dems and the Rethugs have never been farther apart. The Rethugs are now dominated by the teabaggers, who are basically Ayn Rand Libertarians with a Christian dominionist twist.

Right now one of the most conservatives Democratic Senators, Kent Conrad, is proposing a 50/50 split for tax revenue vs. cuts related to approving a new debt ceiling. The Rethugs are saying it should be a 0% vs. 100% split. Trillions of dollars are at stake and you don't think there is a difference in the parties? Just do the math.

[swilton]

42. I disagree with the Dems and Republicans being far apart

if we had real democrats in the house, senate and WH, the Palins, Bachmans and Becks of this world would not be a threat.

I do not hear any Democrats challenging the far right...and all I see is capitulation.

[pnwmom]

47. There is a Republican majority in the House,

and not enough Democrats in the Senate to overcome a filibuster. There has never been enough from the time of Obama's election; Lieberman is an Independent.

The "threat" of the Rethugs is in their numbers. "Real Democrats" cannot overcome the threat of Rethugs unless there are enough of them.

[KoKo]

84. Getting "More and Better Democrats" in House and Senate is no longer an option..

We tried and failed...and it's because the BIG MONEY goes to DINO DEMS. It's both parties that are at fault for allowing this all to happen and it started with Reagan but Clinton furthered it. In retrospect Clinton gave away most of the last threads of New Deal regulation that still protected us after Reagan/Poppy...but now Obama seems to be finishing it off. It's the "DLC..morphed to Third Way and with a Side Dish of the New Lib Dems in pushing their "No Labels Group."

Democratic Party is in tatters. Wake up and see it.

[hulka38]

127. But you are acknowledging that the OPs analysis is correct

and that he/she just didn't provide a solution for you.

[pnwmom]

Obama is President of the UNITED States, not President of the Democratic party.

That is the consistency binding his actions together. He's always made it clear that he felt that his job was to bring people together from both sides of the political spectrum -- not to represent only the progressives in the party.

People who voted for him because they thought he'd be more liberal than Hillary were deluded, but that's not his fault. He was always clear about this.

[Fumesucker]

14. Clearly, we alternate between presidents who are presidents of the Republicans..

And presidents who are presidents of all Americans..

Tell me, how are we ever going to move back to the left politically when all we ever get is extreme right and right-leaning moderate centrism?

[pnwmom]

18. This was predictable with the fall of the Soviet Union,

which had provided a sort of political ballast on the left. People like FDR could represent themselves as moderates, because they WERE -- compared to the Soviet Union. Even China is experimenting with capitalism now, and its version of communism has also been discredited.

So now, European socialists are seen as the far left, which means that the center is farther right than ever before.

I don't know what the answer is. But I don't think Obama is the problem. I think we should be focusing our efforts on electing progressives to the House and Senate, and to state and local office.

[Fumesucker]

23. I live in a far suburban area of a deep red state..

My chances of electing a progressive to anything at all are somewhat less than my chances of passing the Deep Horizons spacecraft on its way to Pluto by flapping my arms vigorously.

Which is why I come to DU, trying to talk about politics with anyone I know IRL is an exercise in either frustration or conflict management depending on how rabid a right winger they are.

[ChiciB1]

57. I Feel Your Pain AND I Feel The Same! n/t

[Fire1]

61. doo wop do wop! LOL!!

[Mimosa]

46. That's a thoughtful analysis, PNWmom

I still think Obama needs to reacquaint himself with true Democratic values. I fear he's been seduced ti the dark side.

[rhett o rick]

72. China is the leading capitalist state today. They are using the USofA as a colony. We supply them

materials and they supply us with products. That's what England and the East India Company did before we got guts and revolted. It's time for a new Declaration of Independence.

The revolution is waiting.

[Zorra]

31. Apparently, then, he does not the actual requirements of his job.

Singing kumbaya with neo-fascists is not going to put people back to work or strengthen and protect our democracy.

The only reason I voted for him in the general election was because I had no other option except an "out" republican.

He was marketed so well during the primaries that many unwitting Democrats and Independents, desperate for someone to help them heal from the Bush years, took his doublespeak bait hook line and sinker.

Question: What is the primary difference between a Democrat and a republican if the Democrat is not progressive?

Answer: The spelling.

[pnwmom]

40. Wrong. Right now the difference between even a conservative Democrat

and any Rethug is about 2 trillion dollars.

One of the most conservative Democrats, Senator Kent Conrad, has recently proposed a 50/50 split for new tax revenue vs. spending cuts in a bill to lift the debt ceiling. Obama had originally called for a "clean bill": meaning no cuts.

Meanwhile, the Republicans insist they'll take nothing less than 100% in cuts.

[Maven]

53. Exactly. He was pretty much the opposite of the strong Democrat we needed.

[Bluenorthwest]

33. He was not clear about that at all. He indulged himself in

lovely language about himself. He was a Fierce Advocate for gay people! Not just alright with us, but a Fierce Advocate. Yeah.
And we all remember the image that had been constructed during the campaign, we all recall that when he picked Biden, Biden struck many as 'too mainstream' and Biden actually spoke to the supporters to tell them he'd carry out the policies of Obama is the office fell to him, rather than pursue his own. So clearly, the bulk of the voters thought he was to the left of Biden, and the campaign took steps to address that.
So sure, the man who claimed to strongly oppose mandates supported by Hillary was clear about his positions. The man who promised that any bill he signed would have to contain a strong public option was clear about his stance. Seems to me you say one thing, the evidence says another. I will be going with the facts, as the spin is just laughable.

[Bluerthanblue]

45. oh bullshit- either you weren't listening and

paying attention, or you were hearing/seeing what you wanted to see.

Ending partisan gridlock was very high on the agenda.

You want to go on evidence- do that. Just be sure your evidence isn't cherry picked to suit your position.

[Fire1]

76. Ditto. n/t

[bvar22]

77. No. I paid close attention.

Campaign Obama was VERY specific about these issues.


Restoring America's Honor
http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-june-15-2010/respect-my-authoritah

EFCA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMNVIQqatyU

NAFTA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LtbLEKHsi0&NR=1


Cadillac Tax
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8wmN3wvhNM&feature=player_embedded


Comfortable Shoes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SA9KC8SMu3o

Public Option & Mandates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acc6Wn_BWlk

Going to WAR in Libya without Congressional Approval
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejvyDn1TPr8



Why don't you watch the above videos from the campaign,
and explain to me what I "misheard".
I'll be waiting.



Who will STAND and FIGHT for THIS American Majority?
You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their excuses.

[StarsInHerHair]

98. AWESOME! signed in just to tell you thank you, for the links. I AM sick OF

THOSE WHO CLAIM PeOPLE WEREN'T LISTENING-bullshit!

[Cameron27]

101. Delurking

just to say thanks for the links too. Nicely done. :thumbsup:

[KoKo]

181. Great Links...and hopefully those who think some of us weren't listening

will read and have their memories refreshed. I notice that many who complain that we didn't listen to the real Obama never have links of their own to refute all the promises he made on the Campaign Trail that he broke. Instead the excuse is that either "politicians always make promises they can't keep or that the Republicans wouldn't let him do anything because the Tea Party is so strong" ...or variations of those two themes. Then there are those that are saying he's playing some kind of Chess Game that's so sophisticated that none of us can see how his Campaign Promises are being kept and in the end he will go from Clark Kent to Superman...and we will see how clever he was at routing the Repugs at their own game.

It's the same old...same old but when facts are given like transcripts of Obama's speeches and Press Conferences and videos of him on the Campaign trail....they never can find their own links to refute the evidence of the Obama on the Campaign Trail and the Obama who is President who is allowing the Repugs to run the country once again.

[pnwmom]

55. During the campaign, he, like the others, said he didn't support gay marriage.

So if you thought that he'd be a "fierce advocate" you were only fooling yourself. As it is, his Justice Department is no longer fighting for DOMA and we're about to repeal DADT. Not bad for someone who'd never portrayed himself as a "fierce advocate."

If the bulk of the voters thought he was to the left of Biden, they made the same mistake you did. But I don't think any DUer can really claim to speak for the bulk of Obama voters, since so many of them were moderates, centrists, or even Independents. Why would they have been voting for someone they thought was so far OUT of the mainstream?

I don't remember Obama saying he strongly opposed mandates but I'll accept that this could be true. And I do know he strongly supported a public option. Would I rather he have vetoed the compromise bill that finally came to be approved? Absolutely not. It's the only way at least one of my children will ever be able to get individual insurance.

[KoKo]

85. Sadly both Hillary and Obama "tag-teamed us." Hillary now seems more conservative that

many Repugs and Obama was supposed to be to her Right. Both of them were the same. We were only given two choices that could win. Hillary or Obama. The rest of the Candidates except Kucinich were "Just in Case."

[Maven]

52. That is absolutely false.

"People who voted for him because they thought he'd be more liberal than Hillary were deluded, but that's not his fault."

Wrong. That is absolutely how he was SOLD. That is why he co-opted the imagery and slogans of real progressive movements in his marketing campaign, to convey the impression that he was the true progressive in the race. Many of us knew this was a fraud back then. But he was absolutely sold during the primaries as the true liberal alternative to Hillary, he knew it, he benefited from it, and that's that.

[pnwmom]

56. If he was sold as such a progressive, why did so many centrists, moderates,

and Independents vote for him?

People saw whatever they wanted to see in him. He wasn't sold as a progressive; he was sold as someone against partisan politics, and as someone a heck of a lot smarter than Bush. And all of that is as true today as it was then.

The fact that you "knew" he was a "fraud" back then would be perfectly in keeping with many of his critics here, who have been attacking him since the day he was elected.

[KoKo]

86. He was the only choice we had...we Dems who were Irate after 8 years of the Criminal Bush/Cheney!

We also thought that he would be a "man of the people." He was African-American and with a name like Barack Hussein Obama....it was sticking it into the eye of the Muslim Haters and PNAC folks who took us into these WARS. Anti-War Dems thought he would pull us out as he promised...and his ardent supporters talking him up so much that many of us started to believe the stuff his campaign folks told us about "Hope & Change"...Progressive Values...his whole life story seemed so "common man" compared to Bush and that we were voting for him because Repugs hated him for his mixed race and his "name" which sounded like the terrorists we were fighting.

He was the GREAT HOPE of all LIBERALS who were past 40 years old. Those of us who supported the Reverend King and hated the Prejudice of the Republicans and the Crusader Wars against Muslims.

He has turned on those who expected so much of his "Promise" that he loudly touted in filled stadiums across America. He is what Chris Hedges said he was. He is "Brand Obama." And, we were marketed to and bought the product.

If he is who he said he was and who his strongest supporters say he is, then he has time to change what he's doing and be the kind of Democrat many of us who worked hard to get him elected though he would be.

If he doesn't get in gear ...he will be a one-termer.

[JDPriestly]

80. Obama has done nearly as much to divide the country as Bush.

Horrors. The harder he tries to unite, the more he divides.

What a loser.

[KoKo]

88. Yes...he is divisive.

[pnwmom]

7. delete (dupe)

[divvy]

15. If you cannot "raise" the bottom to the "middle" .....

then lower the middle to the bottom .......

That is ONE way to achieve equality.

[Long Shadow]

20. "he acts on behalf of wealth and privilage and power."

Does that surprise you?

[joshcryer]

22. "Creature." Nice.

[peacebird]

24. see post #10 for the explanation of that very appropriate word choice

[Bluerthanblue]

44. very appropriate for

pushing an agenda.


:thumbsdown:

[lunatica]

25. You're naive if you think there's anything pure about politics or politicians

Or about either party. The Democratic Party is better, of course, but it's still a political machine.

By it's very nature politics is full of shades of gray because the nature of politics is the art of dickering and compromise. So accusing a politician of being opportunistic and insincere is really naive. That is exactly what they are. The hope is that we, the people, benefit through it.

[Demeter]

26. You are entirely correct, and on the leading edge of Reality

and those people on the edge of the knife are always in danger of being ground down by those who still choose willful blindness over the truth.

Still, Reality always grinds down the willfully blind, in the end. I hope that's some consolation.

[zoosareprisons]

27. He can be a Democrat. Just not a liberal.

The two are not synonyms.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[certainot]

32. obama attracted a lot of voters who had never voted before either because they were young or

because they had never been motivated enough before either because they were 'highly principled' and previous dems seemed like such compromises or they were just apathetic and finally got motivate.

either way, IMO there were a lot of voters in the 2008 election that were politically naive and enough of the idiots stayed home in 2008 to get us into this latest mess and now, having naively expected a black man to walk into the billionaire white man's white house and kick ass they are disappointed.

what a joke.

especially when, after promising to get his back, they continue to give the limbaughs and hannitys a free speech free ride to take punches at dem reps all day long, and especially obama. some of them might even be students in universities that endorse those RW stations by broadcasting athletics on them.

either way, the collective left is not getting obama's back. until then you're going to sound to me like a naive quitter or a troll.

[bhikkhu]

35. Nice example of empty rhetoric

Its insinuates plenty, but its hard to argue with because it says nothing specific at all.

I think it takes advantage of the "piling on" strategy of changing minds - like on the playground where a new kid nobody is sure about is taunted by one kid, then pretty soon everyone else is joining in.

[JoePhilly]

39. Obama Bad Obama Bad Obama Bad

[Fire1]

60. LOL!!! n/t

[Bluerthanblue]

41. he's the president of the country- but

perhaps you don't understand that.

You'd have claimed the same about Bill Clinton I'm sure, and Jimmy Carter as well?

Long term thinking?

You might do well to think on that yourself.


:shrug:

[swilton]

43. It is not just what he has done

it is really scarey to think of what he would do if given a second term....The past actions have been no better than collaboration.

[Angry Dragon]

48. Going to sit and eat my popcorn and drink my tequlia

until someone can tell me exactly who this Obama is


:beer:


:popcorn:



He is the head of the Democratic party, he needs to lead this country, and he needs to fight for his principals.
It would seem that I do not understand his principals.............

[Ed Needham]

49. This is why there is russforpres.com...

Because we need a democrat in the White House.

This appeared two days ago on The Democrat Deal (democratdeal.com):

"Today marked the launch of a new organization and website spelling out what has been whispered about in progressive circles for some time. There may well be a Russ Feingold Presidential Campaign in the preliminary stages.

Recently, a "draft Russ for Senate" campaign in WI has come up short. No one from his inner circle to state political pundits are expecting him to enter the senate race, a race polls show he would take by a landslide. Why? Is it that he has set his political sights higher?

While the former Senator may not enjoy the name recognition of Gov. Dean (neither did Dean til he ran for President) few individuals are held in higher regard by the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party. A champion of civil liberties, worker's rights, a public health insurance option, peace overseas, a David to the Goliath of corporate influence in Washington, Sen. Feingold has been busy with his PAC, Progressives United since leaving office. A direct response to Citizens United, a corporate funded right-wing PAC repeatedly charged with ugly yet effective disinformation campaigns, Progressives United seeks to separate corporate money from the political process and promote greater transparency and accountability in government."

cont'd here: democratdeal.com

Russ' (very much unofficial) campaign site: russforpres.com

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AtomicKitten]

59. Those who distort facts to ignore progress are manipulative posers.

[amborin]

109. exactly;

[LiberalEsto]

58. K&R

I agree wholeheartedly.
I thought he was a corporate tool from the get-go, and I have not been surprised by what he has done since taking office. Only saddened.

[Enthusiast]

62. K&R!

Obama set the stage for and contributed to the supposed need to cut entitlements. The FICA payday holiday and extending the Bush tax cuts were instrumental. If Obama had not agreed to the tax cut extension there would be no crisis.

[Maraya1969]

64. When we "list" his progressive actions we actually "list" them. You have just

entertained a group of people with assertions that contain no facts.

When you can come up with a list of specific things Obama has done that is basically republican and compare it to the list of what he has done as a Democrat then maybe I'll listen.

Other than that it just sounds like some right winged words being strewn together.

[Doctor_J]

100. Here is a fact: Giving away Social Security counteracts the entire list

of "accomplishments" that the apologists continually refer to.

[bvar22]

102. Signing the MANDATE with NO Public Option

...was such a HUGE betrayal that it also negates most of the questionable "accomplishments" on The List.

[madokie]

105. Thats why I referred to it as Drivel

Bullshit, trash or whatever one wants to call it but true it is not to be

[amborin]

111. the list of betrayals and promises blatantly broken vastly eclipses any "list" of "accomplishments"

[ProfessorGAC]

69. There Are Opinions Worth Listening Too

And some are not. Do YOU understand the difference? Somehow i doubt it.
GAC

[liberation]

70. ... goes to the kitchen for some popcorn

Oh boy, this is gonna be a fun thread.

:popcorn:

[JDPriestly]

71. I am 68 and all my working lfe, I paid into Social Security

starting when I was a young teenager.

Now, I had to take my benefits, and Obama -- not the Republicans, but Obama, is pulling the rug out from under me.

I did not work for a government agency long enough to have a pension. I did not work for a company that offered a pension. I did not work in a field that was unionized or even could be unionized. And 401(K)s are a Wall Street joke -- an excuse for brokers to take big commissions.

It's not that I did not save. It is that considering my paychecks and my responsibilities and the changes of career that I had to make just to keep working, I did not make a lot of money. So there, that's the honest truth.

And now, Obama is starting the process, and I'm sure that this is just the first step, of impoverishing me.

I went to a store the other day, and I saw a woman around my age with a job -- shelving products. She was working very hard, nearly panting to keep up the pace. And I thought, she has a job. And here I am and I could never have her job. I would be fired in about ten minutes, as soon as my boss realized that I was dropping things.

So, here comes Obama -- who has never been where we who are on Social Security are -- nonchalantly offering our final security to the very wealthy people represented by Boehner.

Why does all this have to be decided now? Why should we worry about the Chinese? They sell us cheap stuff and in exchange they get our industrial capacity. Same for the rest of the world. We have been bared of our industrial base and left to pay debts that were made on our behalf by traitors.

Let the Bush family pay for the debts run up under the Bush administration. I don't want my children to have to pay those debts. I did not run them up.

[Fire1]

82. If you're receiving your benefits already and full benefits I

assume then the rug stays where it is. The problem most retirees are running into is social security by itself, is not enough to live on. That's why you saw the lady putting stock on the shelves. If you take a good look around there are millions of retirees still working to supplement their benefits.

[JDPriestly]

176. No. The change is going to be made with the COLAs. That is

my understanding.

I do not see very many seniors working to supplement Social Security. I don't see very many jobs for older people. If you had a job for a long time and have not been laid off, then you can continue to work. But many, many people get laid off in their 50s and early 60s and can never work again.

Also, the demands of many bosses in the workplace make it extremely difficult for a lot of older people to keep pace. It is quite natural and part of the aging process that we slow down, that our ability to recall things slows, our hands slow (often due to arthritis or diabetes). Aging is a process of deterioration no matter how much you take care of your health, no matter how much you exercise, no matter how careful you are about what you eat or your weight.

Age is deterioration. I have read a government statistic that about 50% of people over 65 have some sort of disability.

We live in an extremely stressful society. I would say that our society, and especially the workplace, is often quite a hostile environment. That may be one of the reasons that Americans do not have as high a life expectancy as people in other countries.

We Americans retire later than people in a lot of other countries also. That may be another reason for the low life expectancy for Americans. The fact that we do not have a very high life expectancy is another reason why the retirement age in our country should not be raised.

[Fire1]

182. You are woefully misinformed. Research studies as well as

census data proves the increase in life expectancy. That is a fact despite deterioration. You can look at the obits in your local paper and see it, as well. I'm aware that economic status may also contribute to extended life expectancy and noone is debating that the quality of life may be questionable in some cases. Nevertheless, we ARE living longer. That's reality.

I agree that the aged in this country have never been appreciated but I see older people working in just about every field and they are most often working part time. I see them in hospitals, dental and doctors' offices, grocery stores, pharmacies, walmart greeters, home depot, movie theatres, cashiers and the list goes on and on. They are not usually engaged in stressful or strenuous jobs that they may have had in the past but they are still quite active in spite of deteriorating ailments. Some work out of necessity and some maybe not but I don't think anybody wants to just plop down and rot in their golden years. The baby boomers are comparatively quite an active bunch unlike our parents and grandparents. Thank God, we have a different mind set and don't believe life is over when you retire. Even with the aches and pains of aging we are still a vital generation. So, YES! I'd rather see the age of eligibility go up and NO reduction of payments b/c eventually, retirees WILL get a raise in pensions and social security.

Essentially, as Patti LaBelle would say, "You need a new attitude."

[JDPriestly]

189. I tried to get a job. I'm always told that I am overeducated or that

there are 50 applicants other than me.

I don't have the training to work in a medical field, and they will not hire a person with my education and physical problems to work in stores. There is little demand for clerical work because computers do so much of it.

I actually planned to work until I was 70. In fact, at the age of 50, I went back to school and got a professional degree. I got top grades and awards, but I was considered too old to get a long-term job, and after a few years, they began laying off people in my field. At this time, it is difficult to get any kind of work with my degree at my age, virtually impossible unless you have decades of experience, which I don't have because I obtained my degree after I was 50. It's sad because I loved my work although it was extremely stressful.

[Hoyt]

106. I don't understand. How have your benefits been reduced? I could go on SS, but choose not to do so

at this time. But, my benefits are much the same as before Obama took office. I did not expect him to raise benefits. If he actually reduced benefits without some offsetting ideas, I'll curse him. But, so far he hasn't done that.

I do expect him to look for ways to improve Medicare. Our health delivery system needs a lot of changes. If one takes the time to read health care reform legislation, there are a lot of improvements and long-term ideas that were enacted.

Plus, anyone losing their job after 2014 will have access to health care no matter what pre-existing conditions they have. If poor, it'll be paid for by the government. I think that is an accomplishment, maybe not as good as a single payer system -- but it was clear early that wasn't in the cards.

In any event, no matter how much we get pissed at Obama -- for something he actually did, did not do, or just because life remains a struggle -- it's better than having one of the leading Republicans making these decisions.

[JDPriestly]

175. Obama is proposing to reduce our benefits by changing the

formula by which COLAs, cost of living increases, are calculated. That is how my benefits will be cut.

I assume that the worse the inflation that occurs in coming years, the more I will lose in real dollar value. Of course, all seniors in my age-group will suffer the same losses.

In the near future years, these COLA cuts won't make such a difference. But should I live another 25-30 years, it will be a serious loss. (Most of the women in my family live quite long.)

These cuts will especially affect nursing home services. When very elderly people can no longer live on their own and must go into nursing homes, the homes provide services with the residents' Social Security checks supplemented by Medicaid for example. So, the cuts to Social Security of the oldest seniors that Obama is contemplating will really cut into the amount of money that nursing homes have for providing services to their very elder, often quite helpless residents.

This is the most cruel way to balance the budget.

And the deficit is not the problem.

Our trade agreements and the joblessness that the trade agreements have caused is really our problem.

Also, we have a serious problem in that we have enjoyed enormous gains in productivity and efficiency, but the profits from those gains have not been distributed fairly within the economy. They have all gone to the upper income people.

[madokie]

75. I haven't read such drivel in a long time

What is your purpose here?

[Fire1]

79. Good question. n/t

[LoZoccolo]

87. Actually he can be.

As proof: he is.

[Marblehead]

89. Obama the brand

has now soured and doesn't taste so good, same with Coke. He is just another cola in the cola wars.

[elocs]

91. I have wondered if Obama really believes in the long cherished values & ideals

of the Democratic Party. Is there nothing sacred that will not be bargained or compromised away?

Who has our backs?

[Avalux]

93. I am sorry you feel this way. It's unfortunate.

Do you not know that you shouldn't take anything at face value? You will see, after all this plays out, that Obama is the man we elected.

[MissDeeds]

94. Excellent post

You are exactly right - "...our Democratic leader, our hope for meaningful change, is not 'ours.'"
I sincerely hope that members of our party will wake up and see that this man is not our president. He does not champion our causes or put forth the time honored values and ideals of this great party.

We cannot wait and hope for things to get better - we must make them better, and if that means a change of leadership at the top, so be it. We cannot be complacent and simply vote for the lesser of two evils. The stakes are too high. This country is in crisis. We need a real, true Democrat to lead us.

K&R

[jannyk]

96. Tell it like it is bro' - they've got no comeback. K&R

[EVDebs]

97. Sen Bernie Sanders should run in the primaries...and FORCE Obama to become a progressive. nt

[MissDeeds]

103. +1

[Hoyt]

104. What you going to do/say if Medicare and SS aren't damaged?

[TheKentuckian]

135. Thank God that the barbarians are fought off our gates

another day.

What else will there be to say?

[Doctor_J]

177. I'm going to say, "Damn! There's pigs flying right over my house!"

If SS and Medicare are improved, or even left alone, I will re-join the re-election bandwagon

[patrice]

113. All knowing BS. Pretty buzzed on yourself, arent' you, God. nt

[patrice]

115. You reveal the very traits you resent in him. A self-defined, self-absorbed "reality".

[patrice]

116. I'll use the polite form: Engage in mental self-gratification much? nt

[Historic NY]

118. Yeah & FDR wouldn't have stood a chance either with some on DU...

your saying he should put the party before everything else. I don't see how that fits with his constitutional duty.

[Hoyt]

159. The "subject" of your post is great/funny.

[defendandprotect]

119. Even if Obama doesn't do this ... he is a THREAT to Social Security/Medicare given his record ....

and he should not be the candidate in 2012 ---

Let's just draft a true liberal -- someone like Alan Grayson --

Someone like Sen. Bernie Sanders who could run on a Dem ticket --

We need to be moving anti-war candidates into position --

not people like Obama/Biden who continue to push wars, wars and more wars!!

Lovely change to Panetta -- who seems now to be continuing warmongering re Iran!!


Biden has been saying for a year now that Israel needs to attack Iran!!

Biden says, "Israel would be JUSTIFIED in attacking Iran" -- !!


What BS -- 80% of the nation wants an end to the wars --

76% and more want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

USED TO BE CALLED ... 'THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE' -- !!!

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Richardo]

124. Aren't you the all-knowing sage?

The only thing you left out was my absolute favorite: "Think about it." People LOVE to be told they're stupid.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

131. May be would have ended up like JFK

he is swimming in a lake of Right wing piranhas

[defendandprotect]

138. Then he should resign and make that clear to the public ---

Believe it or not, the nation and all its people are more important than

Obama and his welfare!!

[Rosa Luxemburg]

164. the next one will be the same or probably much worse!

[defendandprotect]

190. We can only act on truth -- which is why secrecy is so important to keep fascism going -- !!!

[ProSense]

136. Hmmm?

"There is no true consistency in Obama's presidency, nor is there a moral thread binding his actions together.

And perhaps worst of all, there is no long-term thinking evident in Obama's actions - most of what he has done, and continues to do, seems opportunistic and insincere."

What absolute nonsense!

Here's a list (sue me) of "opportunistic and insincere" actions.

Not long term enough? How about this?

[defendandprotect]

139. Obama is consistent ... consistently pro-corporate ---

As for the list -- think that should be moved to the attic with "pink pony,

chess game, and magic wand" --


Obama has done nothing but moved to the right since the election --

while constantly announcing that he's still ready to "compromise" with the

Repugs --

Today he actually said the GOP is "sincere" --


:rofl:



There's a much longer list of betrayals by Obama --

80% of the public want an end to the wars --

76% and more want MEDICARE FOR ALL --


USED TO BE CALLED ... THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!!

[ProSense]

140. Wow

"Obama has done nothing but moved to the right since the election -- "

Fact-free say anything drivel!!!

Here he is to the "right" of his detractors' favorite "liberal," Nixon.

"There's a much longer list of betrayals by Obama --"

Ooooh, "my imaginary list is longer than your list"


Shall we sing "Feelings"?

[defendandprotect]

145. Obama's ... Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanul a leftie? Wall St. Team... lefties?

Wasn't that another Republican that Obama appointed the other day?

Suppose back room deals with Big Pharma and with the Private H/C industry was

a move to the left -- ?

Patriot act renewal -- of course that's another move to the left?

Extending tax cuts for the rich -- more left?



Nixon was a criminal who was ready to use the "Huston Plan" -- which was modeled

on "Operation Northwoods" to cancel the elections in '72 if neceesary!

He was as much a criminal as any of the Bush's --

The fact that he couldn't go from A to Z and that we had true Democrats in Congress

at that time is what kept him in check -- but he went as far as he could.

Nor does that have anything to do with Obama --


The list of betrayals isn't "imaginary" by any means --


Sing whatever you want but it's over --


Meanwhile, maybe you need a reminder of this --


Ramh .... crowing about preserving "private health care industry" ... business s/b grateful!

Thursday, August 12, 2010 10:03 AM

”In a Thursday interview, White House chief of staff Rahm Emanuel argued that rather than recoiling against Obama, business leaders should be grateful for his support on at least a half-dozen counts: his advocacy of greater international trade and education reform open markets despite union skepticism; his rejection of calls from some quarters to nationalize banks during the financial meltdown; the rescue of the automobile industry; the fact that the overhaul of health care preserved the private delivery system; the fact that billions in the stimulus package benefited business with lucrative new contracts, and that financial regulation reform will take away the uncertainty that existed with a broken, pre-crash regulatory apparatus.

http://dyn.politico.com/printstory.cfm?uuid=B2F85DDF-18...



:puke:

[ProSense]

147. Is

this the "list" you were referring to?

Picking Koch Bros/DLC Rahm Emmanul is a leftie? Wall St. Team lefties?

Wasn't that another Republican that Obama appointed the other day?

Suppose back room deals with Big Pharma and with the Private H/C industry was

a move to the left -- ?

Patriot act renewal -- of course that's another move to the left?

Extending tax cuts for the rich -- more left?



Nixon was a criminal who was ready to use the "Huston Plan" -- which was modeled

on "Operation Northwoods" to cancel the elections in '72 if neceesary!

He was as much a criminal as any of the Bush's --

The fact that he couldn't go from A to Z and that we had true Democrats in Congress

at that time is what kept him in check -- but he went as far as he could.

Nor does that have anything to do with Obama --


The list of betrayals isn't "imaginary" by any means --


Sing whaveter you want but it's over --

FYI: That's not a list of actions that define the President. That's a bunch of opinions.

"The list of betrayals isn't "imaginary" by any means -- "

Still waiting to see it!

[defendandprotect]

152. Hardly --

those were a few reminders --


Of course trampling MEDICARE FOR ALL in back room deals doesn't add up to much

for the nation and our citizens suffering -- does it?

You're not waiting to see anything -- you're in denial --


It's over --

[ProSense]

154. What

"Of course trampling MEDICARE FOR ALL in back room deals doesn't add up to much "

Nonsense. Not only did the President save seniors money, he extended free preventive care to seniors for the first time ever.

He strengthened Medicare.

[Name removed]

157. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProSense]

161. Really?

"You couldn't be more disingenuous"

About what?

MILLER: California Seniors Savings Millions Under Obama’s Health Care Law

New ad campaign touts preventive care benefits of health reform law

[Hubert Flottz]

143. K&R

[rep the dems]

144. It must be great to be so cynical.

And this goes for the majority of people posting on this thread. Not one of you knows what's going to come of all this yet you're all throwing in the towel and bashing our President (say what you want, I stand by my vote and am proud to say he IS my President) because you're all just so clever. For once can we just wait and see what actually happens before rallying in anger over *speculation*?

...I'm guessing the answer is "NOOOOO!!!!"

[Doctor_J]

146. From the Public Option, DADT, Libyan war, Bush Tax Cuts,

Walking Shoes, and some other big-ticket items, we have a fair idea what's going to come of it. Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised, but please don't insult our intelligence by saying our doubts are unfounded.

[defendandprotect]

150. +1 --

:hi:

[ProSense]

153. Seriously?

"Public Option" and "Walking Shoes"?

How about strengthening Medicaid and unions, health care reform and single-payer waivers?

"Maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised, but please don't insult our intelligence by saying our doubts are unfounded."

You can have your doubts, but don't suggest others are insulting your intelligence while attempting to insult theirs.

[JFN1]

171. No prosecutions whatsoever of torturers, of war criminals...

No banksters in jail - no prosecutions for the humongeous THEFT the recession CONTINUES TO BE, anywhere on the horizon...

Ongoing wars with no end in sight, rattling sabers towards Iran now...

SS/Medicare/social safety net referred to ONLY as "entitlements" by Obama, when a social safety net is, more than anything else, the best definition of what a society stands for, its mores and values in practice...to refer to these as "entitlements" is, in the very least, insulting as hell, to those of us who believe we are all in this together, we MUST care for each other, else what point is there to this life we have been gifted with...

So you go ahead - you stick your nose in the pretty flowers you hand pick from the manure all around us, and you go on telling the rest of us how great the air smells. Have at it - I won't stand in your way; after all, flowers often do smell pretty.

But as for me, I'm done with the fucking stench - it is time to clear this shitty air.

[ProSense]

178. More

drivel!

[rep the dems]

158. Hm I seem to remember Don't Ask Don't Tell being repealed under

Obama's presidency but perhaps I'm wrong. The health care bill simply wasn't going to pass with a public option. Sad but true. I was very unhappy with the continued tax cuts for the wealthy but at least he's fighting hard to do away with them once they expire (since they were only extended for 2 more years). Personally, I think he has adopted a perfectly reasonable stance on Libya that doesn't force us into another Iraq like solution but also does not ignore the reality of Gadhafi murdering his own people while they push for change in their country. It's not a popular opinion here at DU, but this is something Kucinich completely ignores with his "peace" talk.

Just my thoughts. And in any case, all I'm really saying is that jumping to conclusions doesn't do us any good, particularly when it's negative conclusions we're jumping to.

[defendandprotect]

148. Obama can not be trusted on Social Security/Medicare -- he's a threat to safety nets ...

whether he goes ahead with this inhumane campaign or not --

Obama continues to be a THREAT in regard to SS and Medicare -- !!


We have tons of democrats who haven't been pre-bribed and who aren't pre-owned

by corporations --

Let's draft Sen. Bernie Sanders who's a better democrat than most Democrats!

We need two strong anti-war candidates -- maybe Tom Hayde for VP --

Alan Grayson would make a great president --


Biden should be out for his warmongering re Iran -- !! Disgusting!!

[Name removed]

155. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[rep the dems]

156. Yeah good luck with that.

And I guess anyone who's not against war in all situations is considered a warmonger. Sometimes I feel like I don't fit in here at all.

[defendandprotect]

184. So you think Biden's right ... "Israel would be JUSFTIED in attacking Iran" .. ???

Biden's been running around for a year now saying that Israel should

attack Iran -- !! Is that really what you want --


How about more drones over Pakistan -- ?

We wouldn't have big eyes for controlling all of the ME by any chance, would we?

[theFrankFactor]

151. I stand with you! K&R

[999998th word]

162. His continued use of the 'E' word to describe SS

Medicare,and Medicaid-doesn't sit well w/me.
The term 'Entitlement' is RW doublespeak.The intent is to imply those 'gummint' programs are giveaways that are sucking the taxpayers,and the country dry.
The effect is insidious, negates the fact, we have paid into ,should expect to collect it ,and if they are left alone-will be OK.SS is solvent well into the future.
This also completely sidesteps the main issue-REVENUE and MILITARY,and the greedy MIDDLEMEN.
Single payer-eliminate the profit layer in HC, end the wars,and tax the fuck*ng rich.

[sheldon]

166. I still believe Obama is a good man, and "Gets It".

But he's in a horribly corrupt system with the deck HUGELY stacked against anything remotely resembling "liberal".
"Liberals" don't even exist in politics anymore, except for a VERY SMALL handful of people like Sanders, Kucinich, DeFazio.

[defendandprotect]

185. If Obama "gets it" ... why is he destroying public education, techers, unions ....?

Why is Obama willing to put Social Security on the table when it runs a huge

surplus of $250 BILLION ever year -- maybe more? -- and has nothing whatsoeveer

to do with the General Budget -- except that its surplus disguises the obscene

and immense MIC budget!!

[WiffenPoof]

167. Here's What I Posted...

...on another thread that is similar. I completely agree with the OP.


I'm reminded of the old saying that "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldn't understand."

That is how I feel about those who constantly cheerlead for our President.

What I think is impossible for them to understand is that it has very little to do with what he has accomplished. No one is arguing that President Obama has not accomplished things while in office. The issue is one of principle. I would challenge any extreme supporter of the President to defend some of the decisions he has made or just some of the promises he has broken. Ask yourself:

Has he upheld and fought for the most basic principles hard earned by the Democratic Party?

I think when you look at it fairly and objectively, you cannot conclude that he has been an enthusiastic supporter of Dem principles. I just don't see it.

And don't tell me that I never supported our President. I did...and whether you believe it or not, I still do. But there is no getting around the fact that he has disappointed a lot of people...mostly progressives (you know...progressives that were once known as Democrats).

Ask yourself how so many people (particularly here at DU) have become so disappointed. Do you honestly believe that we are all just crazy or didn't "get our pony?" Doesn't it seem obvious that there is clear evidence that people like me and others use to come to the conclusion that our President is not what we believed we were electing...or even a dedicated Democrat? Do you think that we would have come to these conclusions just out of the blue...without a shred of examples that added together almost demand a conclusion many of us believe in??? I can't see how any true Democrat can witness the actions of the President and still conclude that he is a loyal party member. It baffles me.

We, who criticize the President are not crazy...really we're not.

Anyone frequenting this board that is under the age of thirty has absolutely no idea what it means to have a real Democratic President. My daughter is one of them. She doesn't want to hear anything bad about President Obama. Anyone under thirty simply has not experienced the application of true Democratic principles by a President of the United States. This is not their fault...they simply don't have that experience. The trouble is, their "Democratic bar" is set pretty low. For them, this President represents THEM. While the old Dems are now considered to be some left-wing whacko, communist, pinko pigs....We are now on the fringe because we want to maintain the principles that made our party great...the Party of the People.

If you support everything that the President has done...ask yourself if there is anyone in our government individually or collectively that represents the original principles of the Democratic Party. Has the President? Not to this old Dem. So, as far as I'm concerned, we have no party of the people...not the Repubs or the Dems. There is no representation for the middle class..there is no consideration unless you are a part of a corporate entity.

Call me crazy if you would like. That is your privilege and your right...and maybe even your obligation. But don't tell me that we have a party of the people anymore. They left with FDR and LBJ. We either have principles that we fight for or we cannot call ourselves true Democrats.

-P

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

170. My father gave his life for this country in world war ll.

I once thought I was proud of this country, now I know that I am not.

[DeSwiss]

173. K&R n/t

[Peacetrain]

180. I don't know which is the bigger BS,,, this op or those who rec, it

[Fire1]

183. Well I certainly didn't rec. I think it's the former. n/t

[bertman]

187. Too late to REC, so here's a kick. nt