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It's so fucked up it makes my head spin.

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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:10 AM
Original message
It's so fucked up it makes my head spin.
Social Security and Medicare facing significant cuts, and enormous tax cuts for the wealthiest people in the country probably getting extended.

Holy Grail long term goals of the republican party. Something even Reagan and Bush could not accomplish during their administrations from hell.

During a Democratic Administration. With a Democratic majority in the Senate.

It's just so totally wrong.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. significant cuts?? link please.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:12 AM
Response to Original message
2. Isn't it though...
x(
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robcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Where are those cuts? I haven't seen them.
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 09:14 AM by robcon
n/t
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. "LALALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" is not a proper debate tactic
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Yes driving the middle ground to the right is so brilliant
He past a more conservative version of health care reform then the 1990s GOP wanted. He's so brilliant he signed into law an extension of Bush tax cuts. That's some great tactics there. He is the leader of the party that he lost the 2010 election huge. So sorry if his starting with the conservative ideas and watch them talk him into a more conservative tactic isn't wowing the DU. I'm sorry if losing elections hasn't wowed them. Last time I check Obama wasn't riding at 60 % popularity making everyone look like a fool like Clinton.
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Taverner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #11
15. That's what Lawrence O'Donnell argued last night
Not sure I agree, but it was interesting none the less...

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/12/993754/-Lawrence-ODonnell:-What-you-are-seeing-is-the-most-masterful-rope-a-dope-ever-seen-by-a-president?via=siderec

Thing is, SS and Medicare have been suggested for cuts for so long - and Reagan even got away with dipping into the lock box.

I knew they'd be coming for it someday - I just didn't know it would be under a democrat
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bahrbearian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Ya, where is the transparency?
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whatchamacallit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. Hopefully you're right and they're not coming, but if they do
you' ll be back here the day after to defend them.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. They are not acting like Democrats.
The truth hurts.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
6. And Social Security doesn't contribute at all to the budget deficit
So how does SS even get into the discussion if the goal is lowering the deficit? Brawndo's got what plants crave.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Where are the facts in that statement?
I can't find any.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Are you denying that the Whitehouse has stated cuts in those programs are on the table?
:shrug: If you are then I would suggest you pay a bit more attention.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Not cuts to benefits.
Cut the pork. Pay attention.
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Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Exactly what "pork" is in Social Security?
:shrug:
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. The ceiling cap.
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Hatchling Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Link, please?
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Don't you know what the ceiling cap is?
It would solve the problem.

You can look it up.
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Hatchling Donating Member (968 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I DO know what the ceiling cap is.
I just want a link from you saying they are going to raise it as your post suggests.
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jaxx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. You asked what was pork in SS.
I said the ceiling cap.

You want a link look at my answer to your question.
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JoeyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #12
22. Old people being allowed to eat.
Anytime "pork" is trimmed from a government organization, it always ends up getting rid of all the good stuff and the only thing left is the stuff that wasn't part of the original intent. We always cut away everything but the pork.
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Zorra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-11 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
17. It's the same type of vague innuendo we heard prior to the extension of the Bush
Edited on Tue Jul-12-11 12:58 PM by Zorra
tax cuts. No Democrat, at present, is going to say that they plan to make significant changes; it is the consistent pattern of compromise and capitulation that has many (most) of us concerned that this is the beginning of the plan, to get us used to the bullshit idea that SS and Medicare must inevitably be cut. I posted a chronology of compromise and capitulation on another thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=439&topic_id=1457084&mesg_id=1457552

Also, Senator Sanders apparently shares some concerns:

Sanders: Obama proposal would impoverish 250,000
By Erik Wasson - 07/09/11 04:33 PM ET

The Social Security Administration estimates that a proposal floated by the Obama administration would put 245,000 people into poverty, according to an analysis released by liberal senator Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Saturday.
--
Social Security Administration’s Office of Retirement Policy estimated that by 2030, according to the report prepared for Sanders, there would be 173,400 more people living in poverty in the United States.
---
"I am especially disturbed that the president is considering cuts in Social Security after he campaigned against cuts in 2008," Sanders said. "The American people expect the president to keep his word."

http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-money/budget/170543-sanders-obama-proposal-impoverishes-250000-people

And what, in light of the chronology posted in the link above and in other similar cases that are well documented but not posted here, are we to make of the statement regarding social security and medicare below? The fact that a Democratic President even made such a statement is upsetting to most Democrats. When this statement is associated with previous circumstances and events, we have no reason to believe that there will not be significant cuts made to SS and Medicare. I'll gladly eat copious servings of delicious crow if SS and Medicare remain untouched after a budget resolution is passed. (I believe I made a similar statement prior to the Bush tax cuts being extended and was disappointed that I was not served my favorite political food).

The President:

"What I emphasized to the broader group of congressional leaders yesterday is now is the time to deal with these issues. If not now, when? I've been hearing from my Republican friends for quite some time that it is a moral imperative for us to tackle our debt and our deficits in a serious way. I've been hearing from them that this is one of the things that's creating uncertainty and holding back investment on the part of the business community. And so what I've said to them is, let's go. And it is possible for us to construct a package that would be balanced, would share sacrifice, would involve both parties taking on their sacred cows, would involve some meaningful changes to Medicare, Social Security, and Medicaid that would preserve the integrity of the programs and keep our sacred trust with our seniors, but make sure those programs were there for not just this generation but for the next generation; that it is possible for us to bring in revenues in a way that does not impede our current recovery, but is fair and balanced."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2011/07/11/press-conference-president

That's straight from the President's mouth to our ears; and that's a fact. A whopper of a fact.

If we were not still involved in 3 wars, and the Bush tax cuts had not been extended, my head would not be spinning quite as fast as it is over this statement.

I am, as so many other Democrats are, justifiably worried that this is the prelude to another ambush.

Trust has already been long broken.




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