So Lawrence O'Donnell's 'Last Word' segment last night - was he right or wrong?

[Taverner]

Basically, he argued that the President's moves have been part of his sucessful "rope-a-dope" strategy.

That would be nice, but I'm not entirely convinced.

Your thoughts?

FYI the DailyKos story is here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/07/12/993754/-Lawrence-ODonnell:-What-you-are-seeing-is-the-most-masterful-rope-a-dope-ever-seen-by-a-president?via=siderec



"What you are now witnessing is the most masterful rope-a-dope ever performed by a president against an opposition party in Congress. It began months ago... Joe Biden then lead negotiations with House Republicans about how to find a compromise position on the White House position of doing nothing but raising the debt ceiling and the Republicans position of cutting $4 trillion in spending while raising the debt ceiling. Biden and House Democrats then rope-a-doped the Republicans into weeks of discussions over trillions of dollars of spending cuts. And during that time, Democrats appeared to be increasingly willing to go along with trillions of dollars of spending cuts -- possibly as much as three trillion. Then Biden and the President insisted that there be at least a trillion in tax revenue increases and Republican Eric Cantor fell for the Obama ultimatum and walked out of the talks doing exactly what the President wanted him to do because Cantor was thereby proving to the country once again that President Obama was willing to be much more flexible and reasonable in these negotiations and compromises with Republicans than Republicans were willing to be with the President. Specific policy issues aside, President Obama has already won the public contest of who appears to be more reasonable and he won that weeks ago."

[Safetykitten]

1. Like HCR rope-a- dope. Yea, that's the ticket. He's plaaaaying with them.

End result. The same. Shit.

[wiggs]

2. nobody has defined what a 'win' is yet. is it a public relations

win?

[BeyondGeography]

3. It would support Obama's this-is-all-bullshit vibe at the presser yesterday

And I'm not being critical. He was pretty relaxed, basically throwing GOP platitudes about deficit reduction and the debt ceiling and its supposed direct links to employment and economic growth back in their face.

Plus, he got to promote his version of what a fair deal would look like (which will always sound a helluva lot more sensible than the GOP alternative), which is a pre-sell for the campaign.

Political theater, yes.

[Tennessee Gal]

4. O'Donnell knows what he is talking about. nt

[MrTriumph]

5. It was a stretch.

I saw it and although Mr. O'Donnell has many great insights, this one appeared to be a stretch. Most people will see different- and uglier- images in the clouds.

[peace frog]

15. My take-away

He was reaching. R E A C H I N G and it remained out of his grasp. I love ya but no sale, Lawrence.

[kentuck]

6. If ...

the Repubs agree to raise taxes (unlikely)and they cut Medicare and Social Security, O'Donnell is wrong.

If they make cuts but no tax increases, O'Donnell is wrong.

If they pass a debt limit bill, with no changes, O'Donnell is right. The President would have called their bluff with a raise and they folded.

[CTyankee]

7. I used to think winning the "public contest of who appears to be more reasonable"

is important to the Republicans. I don't believe that any more.

Here's why: they don't CARE what the voters think. Some are in districts that are entrenched republican ones and their voters are as delusional as they are, so if they want the job they've pretty much got it. Others, who are in more mixed districts, may very well get voted out in '12 but they've been in long enough to get themselves "situated" in cushy lobbying jobs in Washington...and that was the end game all along. These folks don't want to be slogging thru their jobs as Congresspersons for too long. It's HARD work! Why should they care if their Congressional seats are really just stepping stones to greater wealth and more leisure? They don't give a flying carnal act about serving "the people."

Color me cynical but that's the way I see the Republicans these days...

[Vinca]

8. I would feel a whole lot better if I was convinced he wouldn't eventually cave.

He seems to always tack right rather than left and usually right is wrong.

[JHB]

9. The question "was he right or wrong" has yet to be answered...

..and it won't be over 'til it's over, as a catcher once said.

More significant questions are:
1) If it's a win for him, exactly what does he plan to do with it?
2) If it doesn't quite work out so swell, what is Plan B?

[Taverner]

10. Good point and good questions

I don't know

[gkhouston]

25. +1. Also, why is Obama buying into this "crisis" in the first place? n/t

[Marr]

11. I think it's a bit silly to claim that a politician would endorse his opponent's

economic views and infuriate his own supporters just to spike the ball for a little "gotcha" moment. It seems very much like a revival of that tired multidimensional chess argument to me.

[dana_b]

27. I don't understand that either

why would he do that?? He talks about "changes" to these programs, people get very worried/angry/etc. and then he says "haha! fooled ya! I was just trying to fake out the Repubs". ??? People want straight talk and to know exactly what a politician stands for.

[RDANGELO]

12. He is right , but the end game may be in the election not

raising the debt limit. There are enough ignorant Republicans in the house that will hold the ground on taxes. This is akin to someone breaking into your house, holding a gun to your wifes head, and demanding all your money. Unless you are pretty sure he is bluffing, you give him the money.

[Karmadillo]

13. Maybe. Remember when he used "RAD" to make banksters think they would be bailed out? And then

he didn't and he said, "I'm using the money that would have been wasted on bailing out banksters who screwed themselves to finance single-payer health care and an aggressive jobs creation program for hard working Americans." And then there was the time he made everyone think he was going to expand the Forever War and even violate the Constitution by unilateral action in Libya and then he said, "The Forever War is simply a means of transferring wealth from the People to the Oligarchs. I'm not about war. I'm about strengthening American democracy." So, yeah, it's definitely possible.

[jtown1123]

14. And we care about O'Donnell speculations why?

[Taverner]

16. Well, some of us aren't angry antipundits

[mmonk]

17. I'm not much on appearances. It's a curse of being reality based.

[monmouth]

24. Yes, you are special....n/t

[mmonk]

26. Glad you recognize it.

[jwirr]

18. We will not know until the vote for lifting the ceiling is done and we

see the deal. However, I remember the lame duck session and that is what was happening there and we won. If not then the rethugs are definitely revealing themselves with no cause. They have almost written our ads for 2012 all by themselves.

[Tatiana]

19. We never win.

We didn't win a public option, we didn't win an extension of unemployment WITHOUT tax breaks for the wealthy, we haven't won a big public works program... on the economic front, we aren't winning much of anything. Raising the debt ceiling is NOT a win. That's a foregone conclusion.

We need to elect a better Congress. I am resigned toward this milquetoast, right-of-center President for the next term. It's sad that all the potential of Obama's first term has been squandered. He could have truly been a great President. I don't think he's done anything truly visionary or defining like a JFK, LBJ, or FDR. Hell, I'd even settle for Teddy Roosevelt right now... at least we'd know some of these robber barrons might be prosecuted.

[Taverner]

22. Hell, I'd settle for NIXON right now...

He was a pinko commie symp compared to Obama

[damntexdem]

20. Yeah, playing games, instead of standing up for Democratic principles.

Improving his numbers -- possibly to the risk of Congressional Dems.

And supporting the GOP framing that we "can't afford entitlements."

Rope-a-dope may be effective boxing -- but I hate the entire sport.

[Ganja Ninja]

21. I'm not buying that.

Yeah it's all great strategy until the day the GOP decides to take him up on it. Then it's just another bad deal.

[pa28]

23. Lawrence told a bed-time story.

A rope-a-dope fighter is supposed to deliver a knock out blow at the end but he never explained how that could happen. The best O'Donnell could come up with was the President signing a clean 30 day extension at the last second.

Starting over again in August does Obama then pull 3 trillion in cuts off the table because he was playing "rope-a-dope" the whole time? O'donnell never finishes the story because there is none. Like most bedtime stories this one makes no sense and you've already fallen asleep anyway.

[Major Hogwash]

28. It was irrelevant.

They have to raise the debt ceiling and everyone knows it.
However, no Republicans will pay the price next year at the polls for saying they won't vote to raise the debt ceiling.
They won't be thrown out of office for not voting to raise the debt ceiling.

So, Larry's little diatribe was only for his benefit.

It's like asking the members of Congress "who likes cats?"
Republican supporters don't give a shit if their representatives don't like cats.
But, Democrat supporters aren't going to back an anti-cat representative for office, and every single Democrat representative knows that!!
What does that have to do with the economy? Or the national debt? Or budget deficits?
Nothing, but the media needs to have something to bitch about because there is a black man in the fucking White House!!!

The fact that Larry even thinks the public gives a shit that the President is willing to negotiate shows how this whole fucking charade is just more fodder for the media!!!

"he won the public contest'.
There was NO public contest!

Boehner already sent e-mails last month to his Wall Street corporate lords that he sold his soul to a long time ago, that of course they will raise the debt ceiling.
They aren't going to let the government falter on their debts and put our "AAA" bond rating in harm's way.
This is just Act 3, Scene 4 of Congressional Kabuki Theater.

It's harder to keep the ratings of ignominous cable programs up during the summer when people are outside enjoying the weather.
So, they have to act like their hair is on fire to get any attention.

If Cantor pulled his pants down on live tv, no one would even see it during the summer!!

[bvar22]

29. I watched the O'Donnell segment with intense interest,

and I can reduce his lengthy, step-by-step presentation to just one step:
Obama WON by adopting the Republican positions,
leaving them no place to go.

While this Centrist Triangulation strategy may produce something that can be labeled a "Political WIN",
it will move the country further to The RIGHT,
and it already has.

Social Security & Medicare are now Bargaining Chips that WILL be lost,
if not NOW, then sometime in the future.
The Rubicon has been crossed with respect to Social Security.
If not completely destroyed THIS time, it has certainly been damaged,
and this does not even consider the ominous "Payroll Tax Holiday".

The traditional Democratic Values of Increased Spending targeted at the Working Class, and Jobs Programs during Hard Times
has NOW disappeared from the National Discussion.
Obama & The Democratic Party Leadership has adopted ALL the traditional Republican Framing.

O'Donnell may call this a brilliant strategy,
but THIS traditional mainstream FDR/LBJ DEMOCRAT does not.