How can we tackle the unemployment issue if we don't want to deal with it's vicious circles?

[ck4829]

I overhead a sort of a discussion yesterday about unemployment, it went along the lines of 'we should have sympathy for the unemployed, but shouldn't two years be enough?' It eventually devolved into 'unemployment checks make people not want to work' and anyone who disagreed with that line of thinking was accused of being on welfare.

Ad hominem attacks and oversimplification work great for election campaigns and Crossfire, but when it comes to paying the bills or just trying to survive, then I think people would rather have real solutions, thank you very much.

A part of the problem with unemployment is that there are at least three other problems, traps really, associated with it, and it's very easy for an unemployed person to fall into all three of these traps.

These three problems are:

Gaps - The longer a person is unemployed, then the less attractive of a prospective employee they become.

Unemployment discrimination - More and more employers are putting out notices that applicants must be 'currently employed'.

Credit scores as a hiring filter - About one out of six employers use credit scores as some kind of character check, regardless if that job involves handling money or security details. We need to remember that bills don't go away just because a person doesn't have the ability to pay them anymore.

If we don't want the proper tools to deal with unemployment's vicious circles, an employer of last resort and actual incentives for employers to hire to deal with gaps, regulations to deal with unemployment discrimination and credit score usage, and more; then we do not really want to deal with unemployment at all.

[Dulcinea]

1. No one cares about the unemployed.

Which is terrible, not only because there are so many jobless people who want to work, but because the financial crisis will never be resolved without tackling unemployment. Why is there no will to do anything about it?

[Vincardog]

2. Why is there no will to do anything about it? Because dealing with unemployment would mean dealing

with the VAST income inequity in this country. It is a structural problem. The poor can not afford to bribe the politicians so the poor get no representation.

[hack89]

4. The structural problem is our educational system

it is not producing people with the right skills for a modern economy. There will never be high paying low skill jobs in America again. Yet our failure to fix our educational system guarantees a large supply of low skill workers.

[Vincardog]

5. I believe that argument is BULLSHIT. What exactly are 'the right skills for a modern economy'?

Please name the high paying jobs that are failing to be filled do to lack of American skilled workers.

[hack89]

7. High paying jobs are being filled - that's the point

the long term unemployed are mainly low skilled factory and building trade workers - those two sectors took the brunt of the recession. Those low skilled factory jobs will never come back. Those ex-factory workers do not have the skills to fill medium and high skill jobs.

The more education a person has, the less likely he or she is to be unemployed. And when they are unemployed, they are unemployed for a shorter period.

As the economy picks up, the educated and skilled workers will be fully employed. There will not good paying jobs for the low skilled workers.

That's the structural defect - how do we retrain those low skilled workers to fit into an economy where there is no demand for their labor. And I am not talking about college for everyone. Everyone should have a good high school education as a minimum - to many young workers are screwed from the start because they drop out of high school. But beyond that, many high tech jobs require some advanced training whether it be an apprenticeship program or a certification program. People that work in the medical profession as lab techs, x-ray technicians, physical therapy aids will be in high demand but will require a degree of training somewhere between a high school diploma and an associates degree. We simply have no system in place to ensure that kind of training.

[Kat45]

10. Not necessarily. I have an advanced degree, and have not had steady work

for over 2 1/2 years. I am not in the tech area and the few jobs I've even found to apply for are usually fairly low paying. There are so many people applying for each job, that you have to be absolutely perfect for the job, the absolute best. That does not cover many of us. I applied for a contract job, ie no benefits, not permanent, and the company got over 200 resumes in a couple of days! Something is wrong with this picture.

[hack89]

13. Education is not a silver bullet

if your expertise is not in a area of growing demand or you live in place where the recession was particularly tough, then it may be difficult to find a job.

That is why we need an education and training system that looks after adults like your self, who through no fault of their own, need to acquire a new set of skills to be employable.

[Vincardog]

11. I have an AA ABS and a MS Please list the high paying jobs that a HS diploma will help me get, or

quit posting RW talking points

[hack89]

12. Did you even bother to read my post?

didn't I specifically say that most good paying tech jobs require education beyond HS? And that it will become even more important in the future as our economy changes?

A HS diploma does not prepare anyone for a well paying job in today's economy. That is why we have such a large group of long term unemployed - they lack the education and skills.

[Vincardog]

14. PLease list the high skill high wage jobs that are going unfilled or QUIT with the RW points

[hack89]

16. They are not going unfilled. Are you dense? nt

[hack89]

3. Changing skill sets is another huge issue

the economy has fundamentally changed in that there are no more low education, low skill manufacturing jobs anymore. Not only did the recession eliminate a bunch of jobs forever, it left a lot of people unable to compete in the labor market.

The government and the educational system need a permanent job training system in place to ensure that people's skills match up with what the economy wants regardless of how old the worker is. Never ending eduction.

[simonmagnus]

6. Heads up: The economy is going to crash

The current economic system is simply not sustainable from a societal and environmental point of view. People's basic needs are not being met. They are under constant stress to acquire currency and led to do things they would not naturally do(ie. cheat, steal, prostitute..). Then there is the environmental contamination as a result of the consumption cycle it promotes.

Unemployment should be the least of our problems but we are stuck in a fucked up system that demands 'working to live'. This is a distraction. Just because our parents had to live this way does not mean we have to subject ourselves to it. We have the technology to create abundance for everyone, the only obstacles are lack of awareness and willpower to accomplish it. If you are interested in breaking the circle, step out of it. Look at it from a different perspective. Take a look at the resource-based economy.

[Taitertots]

8. The abundance created by technology has been siphoned away to a cabal of rich people

The only thing that stops us from having more than enough is a tiny cabal of rich people taking all the productive gains of technology.

[Hydra]

9. When jobs are easily available, we don't have these problems

I've been unemployed a lot, but also on the rolls most of the time. Employers hate it when they have a limited hiring pool, but love it when 50-100 applications come in for a job, and roughly half or better are good choices.

Since Obama has declared that it's up to the private sector to create jobs(because he doesn't believe in Gov't hiring), and the private sector has no reason to...

[blindpig]

15. The viscious cycles are endemic to Capitalism.

Getting rid of Capitalism is the only way to end the boom and bust cycles.

[hack89]

18. What other system can you show that has no such cycles? nt

[blindpig]

19. Socialism.

There are no investors to withhold investment, no owners to shutter the means of production, no demand for profit. Human need will replace profit as the motive for production.

[hack89]

20. What would drive innovation and growth in such a system? nt

[blindpig]

22. Human necessity. n/t

[hack89]

23. So an individual would recognize a need

invent a solution, create a company and sell it?

[blindpig]

24. Why all of that rigamarole?

If society has the need the workplaces, laboratories are in place, if deemed necessary others will be built. There are no profits to be found here, the recognition of your fellow workers, perhaps a perk or two. We wish to bury the mentality of the marketplace, it is not 'human nature', it is only the dominance of the capitalist class which makes it seem so.

[hack89]

25. So who determines what society needs?

there are millions of jobs making and selling things that people don't need but merely want. As I sit here at my computer and look around, I see many things I don't need.

And how does society decide what is needed? A big committee? An internet poll?

How do you convince people that they can only have those things that government deems necessary? How will treat those individuals who decide they want to make something regardless of what government thinks?

[simonmagnus]

27. Resource based economy

Are you familiar with 3D printers? These are printers that can print objects layer by layer in 3 dimensions. Want to get that tool or replace a part? Go to the local 3D print shop and have them create it from their digital library...oh wait, I forgot, we still live in a society that runs on profit and hoards intellectual information (through patents, licenses, or suppression in some cases).

Sorry, perhaps in the 21st century you'll have it. If we don't destroy ourselves first.

We built the atom bomb and flew man to the moon with science. Solving basic problems such as food and shelter should not be difficult. Science and technology can be used to determine the needs of society. Physical needs such as food, clothing and shelter are not the only factors to consider. There is also the mental well being to take care of. The current economic system we are in neglects all of these basic aspects of human life.

Only through a resource-based economy can we truly advance ourselves socially and technologically. Imagine the world a year or two from now if we unleashed our brightest scientists to find the cure for cancer and diabetes. With no imposed artificial limitations and allowed to share their findings with the world. Can you hear that noise in the background? That is the sound of a hundred screaming corporate CEOs that want to continue profiting off of treatments for cancer and diabetes. Do you think they want a cure that stops the gravy train? Good luck fighting them in Washington, I heard they have more money than the voting public.

Capitalism has failed and is collapsing. It was a nice experiment and now we know where it leads to. Let's try something different.

[hack89]

28. Good luck with that - you'll need it. nt

[NYC_SKP]

29. I have a 3-D printer, and a laser cutter and plasma cutter and CNC mills and lathes.

Looking to buy a 5 or 6 axis machine for more complex designs.

This world of the future you're describing ain't gonna happen.

Too many people on the planet, not enough energy resource, we fucked up when we decided to go with fossil fuels.

We should have listened to Tesla.

[kick-ass-bob]

17. What I can't understand is how we should "trust the economy"

Everyone knows and it is well documented that business has cycles, which means there will be times where lots of people are employed and other times where they are not.

Why does anyone want to play russian roulette with it being their job that might go away next and have no replacement? That's why we have a government, to protect our interests so things don't spiral out of control.

[hack89]

21. But the government doesn't have the skills or the knowledge

to control the economy. And what happens when a different party takes over that has a different economic philosophy? Changing directions every 8 years is a recipe for disaster.

[WinkyDink]

26. ITS.