I am astonished.

[kentuck]

First of all, that the Republicans appear to be in such disarray. Secondly, that they would agree to a debt limit increase with no cuts whatsoever.

I will be surprised if they don't come back with another offer that will demand some cuts. Speaker Boehner and Senator Turtle have lost a lot of credibility with their Tea Party supporters.

I don't want to celebrate too early but the Republicans are definitely on the defensive. There is no joy in Mudville tonight. :-)

[malaise]

1. Their bigger boss spoke

Wall street

[safeinOhio]

2. Chamber of Commerce took em

to the wood shed. Done deal.

[Drale]

4. Exactly /nt

[kentuck]

5. I think you are right.

Also, when Obama's statement that he did not know if SS or veterans or disability checks would go out on August 3rd, that was more pressure than they could bear. Perhaps he should have said that earlier and saved everyone a lot of grieve. But then, the revenge would not be as sweet.

[malaise]

Yep - are you watching Rachel

damn this is hilarious :rofl:

[malaise]

12. Yep - are you watching Rachel

damn this is hilarious :rofl:

[fascisthunter]

13. yup... told him big biz would hurt

and they can't have that.

[eleny]

3. No doubt they thought they were setting a trap but instead they jumped the shark

We have to be on the downside of all this. Time to make a frontal attack while they're being shot in the butt by "the base".

[gateley]

6. Please tell me what I missed! I'm aware of McConnell's

"offer" but I assumed it WAS a trap. Help! I'm lost here!

[Parker CA]

9. Definitely a trap. Obama would still need to identify a huge number of cuts in order for the

"deal" to go through. There are some good posts with very clear info here on the DU, but this is certainly not the be all end alll of this debate in any way.

[gateley]

10. Okay, so are people celebrating because of McConnell's "offer"?

I thought it was a trap, but when I saw all the gleeful responses around here, figured I was wrong. Is that what this is all about? And thanks for responding! I'm pulling my hair out!

[eleny]

15. It was a trap but McConnell is between a rock and a hard place

People say that the true base, Wall St. & the Chamber of Commerce, took the GOP to the woodshed and told them to do something and fast. So Mitch trotted out his flimsy trap. Regardless of how they were trying to trap the president into being the bad guy over the 3 times they allowed him to raise the debt ceiling over the next many months - the perception is that the GOP blinked. So the teabaggers and other ultra right wingers are freaking out and now want to tar and feather McConnell.

I think this is what has happened.

[gateley]

18. That makes sense to me (Wall Street Lords), and I agree I think it's a trap. Dying to

see how Obama responds. Thanks so much!

[eleny]

27. I don't think O has to do much

Raising the debt ceiling was never balked this long by the minority. So once they got "the big money boys" pissed off, the GOP had to go back to the way it's always been handled. All O has to do is urge them to pick a date for the vote, imo. But who knows. I'm just trying to stay up on events as they unfold.

I don't think this had anything to do with presidential chess games, either. Wall St. brought down the mallet and thumped McConnell.

[gateley]

32. Agree -- except that Wall Street must have said, look, this guy isn't

budging so YOU have to do something!

The problem with this, as I understand it from the posts (IF I'm understanding correctly) is that O has to go before Congress three times at certain intervals to do whatever the hell is he's gonna do, and one of those times is in the Summer of 2012 -- just in time for the Republicans to cry during the run-up to the elections, "waaah - he's raising the debt ceiling AGAIN".

It will be very interesting to see what transpires. Just hope I understand it a little! :hi:

[Parker CA]

16. I'm not sure what people are celebrating, and it's clear that there is a lot of confusion on the

exact meaning of the offer. Case in point, Maddow just said Turtle Man offered to raise the limit without anything in return. That's completely contrary to what I read on multiple posts on the DU that explain that the maneuver would require Obama to ask for an increase in debt three different times between now and the 2012 election, and to do so, he'd need to identify equivalent cuts ($2.5T) that would be accepted by the treasury to raise the limit and essentially give the GOP exactly what they want; ability to say they voted against the debt increase since this would be all Obama's doing, and ability to let this "deal" include only cuts, since the requirement to identify equivalent cuts couldn't include revenue increases (Keep in mind this is what I recall from reading threads on DU all day and may not be exactly accurate).

[eleny]

17. The deal was that Obama could raise it - the GOP could balk...

...but the president could still raise it by his authority. The GOP could point the finger at Obama and blame the nation's debt on him at that point.

What has happened is that the teabaggers have freaked out because they didn't want the debt ceiling to be raised. I believe they felt they could win the election because Obama would be in the midst of chaos until the election. (I really think that they believe that it's Jesus's plan - but that's just my perception of the Bachmann camp).

[Hydra]

20. That's what I got out of it too

But without the specifics, it's hard to say what the devil's due for this is.

I DO know that the Repubs passed up a sweet deal on their side to put this one out instead, so I expect there to be some real teeth attached to it.

[gateley]

22. Yeah, I heard the statement (or parts of it anyway) from McConnell

and it was full of "he'll have to do this and do thats" type of things.

But he DIDN't cave, otherwise it wouldn't have gotten to this point -- IMO, anyway. Just don't know how this will play out. VERY interested to hear Obama's response.

[Parker CA]

23. I imagine there will be some clarification in the next couple days, but for now I think not much has

changed. Definitely makes the head spin a bit, but when Steve Bennen makes a comment that his inquiries on The Hill returned multiple variations on what the outcome would entail, I think it's okay to feel a bit confused ;-) I know I do.

[gateley]

25. Yeah, we need a Krugman to explain it, and I think the definitive

thing will be Obama's response/reaction.

[arcane1]

26. And he would have to justify it three times between now and election day

I sincerely hope Obama doesn't agree to this. If he does, I hope it dies in Congress.

[TBMASE]

7. what happened? Last I heard it was nothing definitive

and Boner was still playing hardball

[KoKo]

8. Let's hope this is a good sign of things to come...

fingers xxx's.

[stuckinarut]

11. Is it a good idea to expand the executive branch

when we face a crises? What would happen if a R was in office?

Would you want G.W. to have a blank check?

There is a reason we have a congress, and checks and balances.

I reject the idea that this is a victory in any sense other than we just gave away our democratic control of our deficit/debt.

Excuse me if I skimp on the balloons.

[former9thward]

14. None of what you are astonished about has happened.

The Rs have not agreed on that proposal. And the proposal demands cuts if the debt limit is increased.

[derby378]

19. Did something happen or didn't it?

Is there an agreement? What are the terms? Has there been a vote? It's never too late to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory...

[arcane1]

28. Nothing happened (yet...)

Tortoise came up with a lame scheme that would blame Obama for three debt-ceiling raises, that would individually be debated against in Congress. If Congress wins it requires a veto. Three times, between now and Election Day, this must take place.

It's a bullshit "deal".

Disclaimer: I'm barely aware of the details beyond my scanning of DU, and could be completely full of shit if anything I read was incorrect :)

[Cresent City Kid]

21. On the surface

it looked like a way to have the debt ceiling raised without the gop having to vote for it, or give ground to get a deal and vote for it. I can just see the commercials where they say "Obama borrows $15 trillion dollars!"

I don't think it will go anywhere, I'm astonished that this was even mentioned from the usually synchronized repubs.

[TNLib]

24. I think maybe this is the begging of the end of GOP

Their base is way to loopie I can't see them winning the general with their loopie primary candidate which is shaping up to be Bachman.

[defendandprotect]

30. GOP is scraping the bottom of the barrel -- they were finished in '08, Obama resurrected them -- !!

That doesn't mean that they'll turn from criminal behavior and stealing elections --

or rw violence --

That why the T-Baggers are a concern, imo -- think they're being sent to create a

violent political arena --

That's the only way the right wing can rise -- on violence --

[defendandprotect]

29. Can you imagine W Bush letting Nancy Pelosi shove him around if he had PREZ and SENATE? ... !!!

Who would possibly believe this theater being presented by Obama?

As Thom Hartman said today, Boehner is a warrior with no troops -- can't even get

his own people to do what he wants --

Other than that the public loves their safety nets --

and 76% and more of them want MEDICARE FOR ALL --

I'd love to see Obama at a Town Hall meeting telling us why he had to make back room

deals with Big Pharma and the private H/C industry -- and why his #1 man ...

Koch Bros. DLC Rahm Emmanuel was bragging about it while he was telling business how

GRATEFUL they should be to Obama!!

[dionysus]

33. will you ever give it a rest? you spend all your energy against obama, giving the pukes a free pass

[larwdem]

31. every time

every time we get good news we have a big party here. lets what and see repubs are sooooo slippery