Be careful of what McConnell is proposing...

[SnoopDog]

According to MSNBC online

"The Republican plan would require that Obama submit spending cuts along with his borrowing requests. But unlike the increase in the debt limit, they wouldn't automatically take effect."

See: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43725919/ns/politics-capitol_hill/


Here is the problem and McConnell's catch:

Obama, as President, has Zero authority to implement 'spending cuts along with borrowing requests'. This is a function of the House, the Senate, and the President signing a bill like this into law. This would violate the Constitution.

Pure and simple - the House and the Senate have to both agree to the Debt Ceiling being raised and the President signs the bill. There is no other means unless the entire concept of the debt ceiling is rewritten.

And we must be careful what this implies if McConnell's improper proposal is adopted. How can this new approach be used in a good way or a evil way. What happens when President Bachmann is asked to deal with the new debt ceiling? A spending cut could be 'raise the SS age to 70' or 'eliminate Medicare'.

McConnell's proposal must be rejected. The only legitimate proposal here is to have a stand-alone bill raising the debt ceiling. Period.

[rurallib]

1. I would not trust McConnell as far as I could throw a week of Boehner booze.

McConnell is a double dealing backstabber who would whore out Grandma.

[freshwest]

4. +1

[Cereal Kyller]

2. Indeed

http://www.salon.com/news/budget_showdown/index.html?story=/tech/htww/2011/07/12/the_fiendish_brilliance_of_mitch_mcconnell

[SnoopDog]

3. Seems others have the same concern....

These prick republicans are going for broke...

300,000,000 of us have to stop them before it is to late...

[spanone]

7. they will fight him every step along the way....

[JohnnyLib2]

5. If the proposal somehow gets to the Supreme Court.......??

shaky ground here.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

6. If many of us here at DU know and understand that what McConnell is proposing

is unconstitutional, then I'm sure that the president knows that McConnell is trying to con him. The president is no idiot. We must finally understanding this once and for all.

[SnoopDog]

10. I am sure you are correct '71 - but it is important for the powers to be to know...

that we know it too...

I am a firm believer in being vocal (and in writings)and letting everyone know that WE know it is bull$hit.

The second The People don't object or state our views - politicians will vote against us. It happens all the time and we have to stop them with our voices.

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

11. I'm hoping that we start to speak up, yelling from the rooftops where necessary

The president needs to stand up, too! He's been far too milquetoast on this matter, but again, I see what he's doing. He has to appeal to the Independents, so he can't just engage in he blame game. He has to have a good reason to implement the strategy, and the Republicans continue to set the stage for that.

Well...at least, my fingers are crossed!!!

[alcibiades_mystery]

18. It consitutes a line item veto

It is certainly unconstitutional, which only displays more clearly how devastating Obama's victory over the GOP has been.

[arcane1]

8. This is all about November 2012

They know they have to raise the debt ceiling. This is nothing more than a lame attempt at creating false debt controversy, or the next 12 months, in order to have a fucking campaign issue to run on.

[Raine]

9. Yes, way to early for some to be declaring victory

repugs don't give up easily.

[robinlynne]

12. I knew there was something evil behind it, but did not know what it was. thanks.

[unkachuck]

13. you're right, SnoopDog....

"A spending cut could be 'raise the SS age to 70' or 'eliminate Medicare'."

....we just can't trust that beady-eyed little chicken fucker or the cesspool party he represents....

[SnoopDog]

26. These radical republicans have become a cancer on our democracy...

They have but one motive - to destroy...

And we are the anti-virus...but we have to use it and use it every single day.

[creeksneakers2]

14. MSNBC is the only one saying that Obama's cuts would have to

be approved. If that's true, it would be great if Obama took the deal and then submitted a $2.5 trillion cut in defense. He's not into that though.

I think there is a better way out, to get to the stand-alone bill.

The GOP is desperate for a way out because they've been bluffing since the beginning. They've never had the votes to pass what they are advocating.

According to Fox and others ( I know Fox is unreliable but I think they have inside access here) there are 80 to 120 members of the house GOP who won't vote for a debt ceiling increase under any circumstances. I figure out of those who are left there must be some who will run away from voting for entitlement cuts. Boehner admits a chunk of his members won't vote for an increase at all.

http://politics.blogs.foxnews.com/2011/07/11/debt-ceiling-sabermetrics

The GOP was in a jam with their own people to begin with and their only way out was to get Obama to sign on to a plan to provide cover for their members voting against entitlements. Their strategy all along was to get Obama to cave by bluffing.

What to do about this? Obama has to call the bluff and expose the GOP. He needs to insist that the house Republicans pass their own plan to move the legislative process along.

If Boehner can't pass his own plan, he'd have to explain why he's going to put the whole country into a disaster for a plan even his own party doesn't support. He'd have to explain why he's been bluffing all this time and causing all this trouble.

Even if the GOP can pass its plan, there would still be the Senate and Obama's veto to intervene. And the GOP members would be stuck going into the next election with their base furious because they passed a debt increase at all, and the rest of the public furious because they voted to cut entitlements.

No matter what they do, its a lose/lose for the GOP if Obama forces them to vote. Obama could leave one way out for them, to supply half the votes needed to pass a clean bill to raise the debt ceiling.

Holding talks, or entertaining the latest GOP dodge attempt just encourages the GOP to think they can still get away with this.

[unblock]

15. are you assuming mcconnell's plan is to somehow put it in effect without it becoming law?

if they were to agree to his plan, the way they would do that is for congress to pass it and for the president to sign it, so it becomes law.

i'm not saying it's a good or bad plan, but do you seriously think the problem with it is that congress and the president can't figure out a way to agree on something and make it constitutional?

[SnoopDog]

17. My point is that McConnell's proposal is dangereous.

And that we, and the President, and Congress must reject it.

If nobody says anything against it - they will think it is ok to proceed...

We must be vigilant in stopping these pricks.

[alcibiades_mystery]

16. he can submit the request without a single spending cut

They will disapprove, and he will veto their disapproval.

It's all a game for them to increase the debt ceiling for their financial clients without pissing off the Tea Party. They're giving Obama the power to raise the debt limit while giving him ALSO a line item veto on their supposed attached spending cuts.

It is a complete surrender.

[SnoopDog]

19. The problem is that the 'next president' will have the same power...

and this new power could be devastating in the hands of the evils...

[alcibiades_mystery]

20. Oh for Gawd's sake

You can't say that the deficit is a made up issue on the one hand (it is, by the way) and the greatest threat to the Republic on the other. Please. This is a minor procedural matter that the GOP has tried to leverage for political gain. It blew up in their face, and Obama smashed the pie of it in their fucking faces. And now DUers are scrambling for ways in which Obama may have "lost" this round?

Come the fuck on.

[SnoopDog]

22. I see this whole thing really is a '...Mystery' to you...

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Cogent response

:eyes:

[jimmyflint]

21. Timeo Danaos et dona ferentes. n/t

[JohnnyLib2]

23. Greeks, McConnell, phrase fits!

:thumbsup:

[fivepennies]

24. What pisses me off is that we're all

standing around wringing our hands in nervous anticipation like a bunch of 13 year old girls waiting for mommy and daddy to decide if we can go to the dance.

They have turned us into a gaggle of feckless children while they dicker around with EVERYone's future and keep us guessing what their decision will be, like it was some sort of surprise christmas gift. A pony, or a lump of coal?

[SnoopDog]

28. Not me - I contacted my representatives and the President.

This is the minimum everyone must do.

Have you contacted your representatives and the Pres?

[fivepennies]

30. I don't mean to be dismissive

about your calls. And yes, its important, but it reminds me too much of that 13 year old girl begging, "please mommy, please daddy". This may be a nation "of the people and by the people" but when the reps say "no" the people are toothless.

[jmowreader]

27. The proposal is even more hilarious than that

He wants to give the president the "authority" to ask Congress for three $800 billion increases in the debt ceiling, but these requests must be accompanied by spending cuts.

Once the president's debt ceiling/spending cut package reaches Congress, they will then have the right to create a bill disapproving the request, which you of course know they will do. Should the bill make it through both houses, it goes to the president who is allowed to veto it, which you of course know he will do. I assume if they don't create a bill or if the president vetoes it, the debt ceiling and spending cut in the president's request will be enacted.

With the "disapproval bill" option in there I think it's probably constitutional. What I'm looking at is Mitch McConnell's admission they can't control the tea party.

[The Wizard]

29. Miss McConnell

is a pod person with a personality disorder. He's also a pathological liar not to be trusted.

[applegrove]

31. So because only spending cuts and borrowing requests can be submitted I take

it no tax increases can be submitted? What an ***hole!

[SnoopDog]

34. Thanks applegrove - I did not connect that dot...

You are right - that MSNBC article did not mention 'tax increases'...

Nice catch.

[unblock]

32. here's his plan: he's agreeing to raise the debt ceiling as long as it's shrouded in deniability

basically, he's agreeing to raise the limit, but only as long as the president agrees to thrice come begging and dance a little bit and allow the republicans to say "NO!" loudly and rudely.

in a nutshell, republicans are demanding that the president put on a song and dance for their amusement, permit them their theater to entertain their patrons. otherwise, they throw the nation in default for no good reason. or they shoot the first dog, one or the other.

[SnoopDog]

35. No, there is more to it than that...

This is a republican trap. As I said, Congress has to either raise the debt ceiling or not.

Putting on all these new conditions is a trap.

Here is the point: Either the debt ceiling is raised, per current legislation, or it is not. All these tax increases, tax cuts, spending cuts is nothing but a evil ploy to harm the middle class.

This is a singular issue - raise the debt ceiling or not. Period.

We and they can haggle over taxes and cuts in appropriate legislation.

[unblock]

36. that is his plan, essentially

if they enact the plan, THEY WILL HAVE AGREED TO THE INCREASE.

obama would also be agreeing to the little song and dance, but when he brings his spending cuts and begs for a debt ceiling increase and the house says "no", THE DEBT CEILING IS AUTOMATICALLY INCREASED BECAUSE THEY AGREED TO RAISE IT AUTOMATICALLY.


it's great political theater for the republicans. if they can convince fox news not to cover the fact that the mcconnell plan is a complete cave (well, they're agreeing to take the gun away from the dog's temple and point it at obama's feet instead).

it means that the debt ceiling gets raised so the debt payments are never in any real jeopardy. however, it makes obama beg to raise the limit (so it's his fault) and it gives republicans an opportunity to rail against the idea of raising the ceiling (see how responsible they are?) and they get to vote not to raise it. obama then has to veto it (see, it really is obama's fault even though america is opposed to it) and when they can't override the veto, obama gets his debt ceiling increase because the republicans ALREADY AGREED TO IT.

you have to admire them, they're brazen hypocrites and they know it and they don't mind making a big show of it. they know fox news will give them endless coverage of opposing raising the limit and never bother to mention that they already agreed to raise it IN EXCHANGE FOR letting them present themselves as never having agreed to it.

[sad sally]

33. As George Orwell said in Animal Farm, “Some became more equal than others.”

What is occurring in the US could not have happened by ineptness or chance. It is being done by design.

watch out

[mzmolly]

37. Cut their effing Senate/Congressional salaries for not doing their jobs.

Just the Republicans of course. ;) Cut their retirement accounts and health benefits too, while we're at it!

[kenny blankenship]

38. Impeachment Bait, in other words?

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Blue Owl]

40. "McConnell" and "Trust" are mutually exclusive terms

n/t