Want to know one of the reasons Obama put Medicare and SS in play?

[Joe the Revelator]

Who's the base of the tea party/GOP? Remember during the hcr summer? How we would comment that a bunch of tea party/ GOP Medicare recipients were trying to keep government healthcare from the rest of the country?

How else can you get the base to push back against their GOP overlords? You have to make it where they have skin the game.

[patrice]

1. Answer: He thinks we have it too easy and wants more money for SaintCo & the Death Panels/InsCo.

:sarcasm:

[dflprincess]

2. I don't quite see how Obama threatening Social Security & Medicare

will make that crowd push back against the GOP.

[Joe the Revelator]

5. Because he's still the President. If the base of the GOP think they're going to lose....

...their benefits, then they start wanting their guys to break the stalemate.

[dflprincess]

17. And they will remember that Obama was the one who threatened their benefits n/t

[Joe the Revelator]

27. It's not about these people voting or even liking Obama...it's about..

Them forcing their own party to bargain because they want their checks.

[villager]

so we're obliged to be ecstatic that our President pushes rightwing policies as a bluff

...and hoping against hope the GOP doesn't say "yes," as opposed to having a President who actually pushes for progressive policies, regardless of what the GOP says or thinks?

:shrug:

[Joe the Revelator]

8. It depends on if you want to live in the real world.....

....or an idealistic one.

[Historic NY]

13. +1

[villager]

15. in my real world, people still have ideals

n/t

[patrice]

20. What is your basis for assuming that there are no ideals inherent to Medicare Reform? nt

[villager]

22. well, punishing the poor and indigent is kind of an "ideal" for some, I guess

n/t

[patrice]

23. So, you dispute the expert opinion of someone like Bernie Sanders who has said that Medicare CAN

be improved and could thus, perhaps simply through rule making rather than legislation, become MEDICARE FOR ALL?

What is your basis for disputing Senator Sanders' evaluation of this situation?

[patrice]

24. delete to move

[villager]

35. Ah, so you too trust a Sen. Sanders' analysis more than the official White House one?

And in critical issues facing this country, you'd be right!

Good to know!

:thumbsup:

[patrice]

26. Here's one link & I bet you know how to find more of the same, IF you want.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2009/december/sanders-offers-medicare-for-all-amendment-in-senate

[dflprincess]

16. What was that George Benard Shaw quote Robert Kennedy used so much?

Oh yeah, "Some men see things as they are and say 'Why?'. I dream things that never were and say 'Why not?'"

Silly RFK, that was neither a realistic nor a pragmatic attitude to have. :sarcasm:

[patrice]

21. And where did Mr. Shaw say that there is one & only one "Why not?" & that it's yours?

[dflprincess]

25. When RFK used the quote (and he ended nearly every speech with it)

he seemed to be telling us that he envisioned a better, more equitable society. If he (or Shaw) had had the same attitude Obama has the quote would have ended "I dream things that never were and say, that wouldn't be pragmatic."

[patrice]

28. Do you think people can read your mind? Do you like it when they assume that they do?

In the god-awful complexity of the situation we're in, not to mention the policies we are talking about, and throwing in the factor of not only Obama's mind, but that of absolutely everyone else involved in the negotiations AND projecting ALL of that out into time and multiple other situations, it absolutely dumb-founds me that people with next to NO information about all of the foregoing find it so facile to come up with these absolute conclusions.

Would you at least consider using a "maybe" now and then, or a perhaps, or an IN MY OPINION?

I mean what the holy fucking hell do you REALLY know about Obama's "attitude" except what you INTERPRET, what you want to believe, out of the filtered and interpreted and pre-processed and processed over again bullshit that we call "news"? If you WANTED to believe something else, you'd INTERPRET something else.

And if your/my answer to that question is an honest "Not much" well then, it is a logical NECESSITY that it is at least as probable that you are/I am wrong as it is that you are/I am right.

And if you think there is no such logical necessity, well then, you must be God.

Get it?

[dflprincess]

30. I learned all I needed to about Obama's "attitude"

when he sold us out to the health insurance companies. And there there are his new trade treaties and his corporate friendly cabinet. He hasn't hesitated to sell out the working and middle classes in the past and he'll do it again if he decides it's "pragmatic".

I would love to be wrong about him, but for now, I don't trust him anymore than I trusted Bush.

[patrice]

31. INTERPRETATION. If you WANTED to believe something else, you would interpret something else. That's

the way the human brain works.

[patrice]

32. "all I needed to (know)" Isn't that a trait of prejudiced thinking? Have you ever asked yourself

honestly if you're a bigot or not?

And, before you get all outraged at me, know that I ask myself that question all of the time, because IT LEADS TO NEW KNOWLEDGE.

[dflprincess]

33. How does believing the President of the United States has

shown that he doesn't give a damn about the working and middle classes make me a bigot? Was I a bigot when I thought the same thing about Reagan and Bush?

[patrice]

34. "all I need to (know)" is exactly the same way anyone who is prejudiced "thinks". No other

possible facts, events, expert opinions (such as that of Howard Dean on MSNBC this evening, for example), other hypotheses, other people's thoughts or feelings . . . nothing else could possibly matter or be of any significance to you, such that you might just consider re-evaluating what you think, because you have already made your mind up based upon the artificially limited "facts" you have CHOSEN; this is exactly the same thing a bigot does. Substitute statements about persons of color, or poor people, for example, and formulate a negative judgement and you will see it fits exactly the same pattern of "thought" that you display.

[patrice]

29. Related question: Why is your mind un-readable? And Obama's isn't? nt

[patrice]

18. "real world", would that be one in which one says things based upon specific knowledge & understandi

ng of the actual traits and characteristics of Medicare itself and in which one DEMONSTRATES the factual basis for one's opinions.

Or is that the world in which just saying things makes them so?

[patrice]

3. Of course the answer could NOT possibly be 'cause he thinks Medicare could do better for more people

[Joe the Revelator]

10. I'm talking about now, not then.

[alfredo]

4. SS and Medicare were in no danger. He tied cuts to raising

taxes on the rich and cutting corporate welfare. There was no way the Reps could support any changes to bush's tax cuts.

He didn't say anything until he knew he had a winning hand.


He beat them like a red headed step child.

[Joe the Revelator]

6. Agreed, but there are still those asking ' how could Obama threaten not to send out ss checks!?'

[alfredo]

12. That was turning the knife in McConnell's and Boehner's back.

Geithner softened up the beach on the Sunday, Then Monday Obama hit the beach. The SS check statement was to make sure the enemy was vanquished.

Is Obama going to give them an "honorable way out" or is he going crush him? I think staying with the only adult in the room theme will play well with the voters, but watching the GOP tear themselves apart would be so satisfying.

[Abq_Sarah]

19. Uninformed people will believe just about anything

Including the claim we're going to run out of money to issue SS checks.

[alfredo]

38. Obama wanted to put pressure on the Reps. What better

way than to have the Republicans phones and email swamped by angry messages from seniors.

[Kind of Blue]

11. +1000! n/t

[jtown1123]

37. Doesn't matter. Seniors will and others will never vote for him again.

[robinlynne]

7. Nothing he says will make their base push back. They despise Obama.

[Joe the Revelator]

9. Again, that's why he has to threaten to take away their socialist entitlements

Their words, not mine.

[patrice]

14. Oh don't worry, Republicans ET AL will whip them into a freaking frenzy over "CUTS!!!" anyway. nt

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. He discovered vacant seats under the bus.