Whatever the outcome of the manufactured "debt crisis", no matter

[Warren Stupidity]

which team the compliant media pronounces as the winners, the fact remains that a Democratic president put social security and medicare up on the auction block.

No, that is not all right with me.

[rurallib]

1. the other fact is that Republicans created a fake crisis.

and must be held accountable for putting our economy and the world's at risk.

[jtown1123]

4. The Democrats were highly complicit as well.

[somone]

2. A historic first

:sarcasm:

[Divernan]

3. Yes, Obama made it abundantly clear that SS/SSI/Medicare/Medicaid are always on the table.

It's like a big bunch of carrots that he has waved under the GOP's collective nose. So the GOP didn't bite this time? The GOP knows that Obama is willing to put cuts to these programs in play whenever the stakes are appealing enough to him and the MIC/Pentagon/Big Corporate Donors.

[KittyWampus]

10. No, Obama made it clear he can outplay the Republicans & use their own stubborn intransigence

against them.

Budget talks in the future are an entirely separate hand of poker.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Divernan]

36. Go study up on Realpolitik, kiddo - budget talks always build on previous ones

and are not discrete events.

[QC]

5. We're not supposed to talk about that. n/t

[KittyWampus]

9. We're not supposed to talk about how wrong the Reactionary Screamers were.

[joeybee12]

14. Or the blind obeyers...

Oh that's right...that's ok because blind obedience in defiance of facts and logic is ok in obama-land.

[KittyWampus]

18. blind would imply many of us weren't paying attention. We were. To the big picture.

[jtown1123]

17. how were we wrong?

[Marr]

32. The fact is Obama put SS and Medicare on the table, while his apologists were denying that he'd ever

do such a thing, so this celebratory "told you so" stuff is not only premature, but unearned. The GOP turned his Republican-friendly offer down, yes-- but there are two weeks to go before this little window is closed, and nothing has changed except the fact that now, Social Security and Medicare are no longer non-starters.

I truly hope you're right in your assertions that Obama would never have really accepted the cuts he apparently offered. I truly hope he is the brilliant, sincere tactician you assume he is. But I'm not celebrating anything until this phony crisis has passed, with no cuts to Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid.

[Zorra]

33. Last time someone called me a "reactionary screamer" I was protesting Bush

going into Iraq.

Thanks for the compliment.

[Divernan]

38. Oh that's so cute, you've learned a new insulting phrase.

[joeybee12]

6. I agree...he may make them blink, but he's given away the Ace card...

and we're gonna lose the Senate and make no gains in the House...maybe that's what Obama wanted.

[KittyWampus]

8. Sorry, but that's entirely a different hand. You don't know how to play poker, obviously.

[joeybee12]

13. You apparently don't know much about politics other than idol worship, sweetie...nt

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[plcdude]

11. the Democratic President did not

put social security and medicare up on the auction block. Those refusing to raise the debt limit placed these and other obligations in jeopardy. The Democratic President is merely telling us what can happen if the debt limit is unchanged and we do not have enough money in our account to meet our obligations. Because the republicans wanted to tie a house keeping activity (as it was called in the Bush administration and performed 7 times during this administration) to keeping the tax breaks for the wealthy, they created this issue.

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deacon]

19. +1

[jtown1123]

21. Did you see Obama's press conference Monday? I'm guessing not.

[Warren Stupidity]

28. name calling is all you have

[Divernan]

40. It's like your two year old learning how to do something new

Keeps repeating it over and over and over - contributes nothing to the debate or discussion.

[RandomKoolzip]

30. Ah, so now we should add "Reactionary Screamers" (why the capitals?)

to "fringe," "pony," and all the other dumb memes you guys think are going to catch on? Newsflash: reductionist memes rarely become the effective catch-phrases and popular shorthand signifiers you think they'll become. More often than not, they're just annoying as fuck.

[myrna minx]

34. That's some GOTV strategy they have there.

:shrug:

[jtown1123]

20. O rly?

We're going to have a sales job. This is not pleasant. It's hard to persuade people to do the hard stuff that entails trimming benefits and increasing revenues.--President Obama, 7/11/11.

The President didnt put SS, Medicare and Medicaid on chopping block? Could have fooled me.

[woo me with science]

15. He also stood up there and validated vile Republican lies and talking points,

and the impact of that cannot be overstated.

He stood up there and actually said that cutting spending instead of focusing on jobs first will give us the "solid fiscal situation" we need *before* focusing on jobs.

It is a barefaced lie. Three hundred economists have weighed in warning this President that he needs to focus on jobs first and not starve the economy even more with spending cuts. But he gets up there and spews Republican talking points about slashing spending first.

He had from day one of this Presidency to change the narrative and the national conversation about the economy, in order to build support for policies that would actually help us. We have a demand side problem, and we desperately need a President who will acknowledge that and teach the electorate how to demand what will actually help them. Instead, he stands up in front of the country to proclaim with the Republicans that now is the time to cut spending, "trim" benefits, and "eat our peas."

He had from day one to actually lead.

Instead, he has cemented the Republican narrative and made it a "bipartisan" narrative in a way that will not be undone anytime soon.

You are absolutely right that this crisis was manufactured. It is part of a pattern in which legislation can be crafted behind closed doors and then brought out to be urgently passed to avert a "catastrophe"...while keeping the American people from having any opportunity to see it or weigh in before it happens.

Welcome to the New America.

(K&R, btw)

[Divernan]

23. +++++1000

[CrispyQ]

24. "He also stood up there and validated vile Republican lies and talking points, ..."

Your entire response is so damned spot on.

[KittyWampus]

26. He is attack the Right FROM THE RIGHT> He's taking away the Deficit issue for the Election.

And he is winning.

[blindpig]

22. This is an event of great clarity.

It clearly answers the question, "Whose side are they on?".

Ain't ours.

[Hydra]

25. The safety net is NOT OFF the chopping block

I saw them talking about how it was such a drain on our economy last night on Newshour(PBS), and how it's SO MUCH BIGGER than our military and other expenditures.

No, maybe the noise we made averted it for now(doubt it), but it's coming.

[plcdude]

29. as long as

the ending of tax breaks for the wealthy and coporations remains on the table the safety net is safe. The Republicans will not pass a debt reduction bill that contains any talk of cessation of tax breaks for the wealthy. If the Republicans pass a bill to reduce debt without the ending of tax breaks Obama will veto it. There are at least 19 public opinion polls that state that the majority of Americans want to end the tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations as part of a debt reduction program. The Republican position is untenable and unpopular.

[Mo_Steel]

27. I agree n/t

[Zorra]

31. Yeh, that is the bottom line. The Never-Ever negotiable became negotiable.

Democrats that were skeptical of the true intentions of this Prez before are ten times as skeptical now.

[Divernan]

41. Not to mention the independents and Rs who switched over last time.

[woo me with science]

35. K&R. nt

[amborin]

37. agreed; and let's see how this plays out; more FICA holidays to come? the earlier one already sets

the stage for big problems when it comes time to reinstate it, with dire implications for Soc Sec.

Even "tweaking" Soc Sec is unacceptable; it was established as it is for good reasons

[AngryAmish]

39. I thought you were saying Greece was a manufactured crisis...

I should learn to read better.

[Warren Stupidity]

42. Them too. We are all getting the Disaster Capitalism Treatment now.