For those that Think Obama's Social Security Check Threats Were Good...

[jtown1123]

There have been, predictably, a slew of GOP/Tea Party attacks screaming that Obama wants to withhold grandma's check. Like some gangster threatening the weak and elderly. This is a great messaging strategy for the GOP. One that people respond to on a visceral level.

This was a TERRIBLE idea for the President. Polls show Republicans are already more trusted on Social Security than Democrats. This is the nail in the coffin for Democrats on Social Security, folks.

This is not a good tactic, it's incredibly stupid. Now seniors, who already didn't vote for Obama, may turn against all Democrats. Even the good ones who don't waver on their support for voting against SS, Medicaid and Medicare cuts.

[Doctor Hurt]

1. shorter OP

"since Mitch McConnell's climbdown, I'm having a tough time figuring out how to criticize Obama."

[DevonRex]

3. Hahaha.

Perfect summary.

[jtown1123]

10. Huh?

http://mediamatters.org/research/201107130001

McCOnnell didn't climb down. He also doesn't have much sway.

[Whisp]

35. . . .

:rofl:

[jtown1123]

42. Some reading material

http://mediamatters.org/research/201107130001

[Whisp]

46. There's a Fux Gnus vid link at that address.

why do I want to hear anything Fux Gnus says.

I did take a clip, is this waht you are all upset about?

;;;;''''Right-Wing Media Downplay Default Risks By Accusing Obama Of "Threatening" Social Security Benefits
14 hours and 26 minutes ago — 52 Comments
Media conservatives are accusing the Obama administration of "threatening" Social Security benefits after the president observed in an interview that he could not guarantee that benefits could be paid if the debt limit were not increased. Economic experts agree that failure to increase the debt limit would force the federal government to prioritize its legal obligations and strain its ability to pay Social Security benefits.'''';;;;;

so the Wingers are calling this a threat by Obama and you are taking it as gospel hook, line and sinker? What exactly was your point in linking to this excrement? We should be afraid of what the GOP is saying, are you serious? Obama survived that 'death panel' farce made up shit and he can survive this one. Why are you carrying the RW message here that Obama is threatening seniors?

[jtown1123]

48. Media Matters is highly progressive. They are listing how the media will spin this

further making voters think Obama is witholding their SS. It doesn't matter if its true or not. People are misled when they see something on the official "news."

[Whisp]

54. again I ask, and will be the last. Is this new news to you?

really, this has been going on a long long time. Where have you been?

[jtown1123]

61. What I am saying is, why on earth put yourself in that position?

Democrats, historically, had the advantage when it came to being the party that defended Social Security. The 2010 election Celinda Lake poll showed, disturbingly, the voters trusted Repukes on SS more than Dems. As a Democrat, especially the president, I would think the strategy from there on out would be hammering the point that Democrats will never allow GOP to dismantle or cut SS, ever. When he came out saying he couldn't pay the SS checks if default occured, immediately the right wing GOP propaganda machine began spouting out that all this is Obama's fault, he's holding Granny hostage, etc. If I were Obama, I would have never said that in the first place. Especially two days after he admitted his party needs to accept cuts in entitlements. The GOP lies all the time. That's their strategy, and guess what? It works. As we saw in health care reform with the Medicare private insurer subsidy cuts.

[FreakinDJ]

2. and Paul Ryan's Medicaid proposals were welcomed

Hhumm..

[Bok_Tukalo]

4. I did not like it

It had a whiff of smoking-gun-mushroom-cloud to it. Scaring 82 year old ladies (or men, for that matter) should be frowned upon.

Besides, if the Treasuries purchased by the surplus in the payroll taxes are counted as part of the 14 + trillion in debt, they can be swapped without raising the debt ceiling and Social Security recipients can be paid.

[jtown1123]

13. I agree. Seniors are scared to death. They are already easily misled.

[CTyankee]

36. Please give us old folks a little credit.

We managed to work hard and have productive careers, raise kids who are great and in general behaved ourselves responsibly. As a group I don't think the seniors are "easily misled" at all. We've seen too much and been thru too much to go all unhinged and hysterical...

If we have fears, they are wise fears...

[jtown1123]

39. With all due respect

I apologize if my statement sounded as if I wasn't giving credit to seniors. On the contrary, I have a lot of respect and admiration for them. I just saw the incredibly spin job the GOP did on HCR and Medicare during the 2010 elections and fear it'll happen again. Their fears are warranted in this case.

[CTyankee]

49. Yup, our antenna went up when we heard the GOP talk trash on HCR and Medicare.

However, I don't think Obama's statement was meant to terrify seniors. He was stating the reality. He was absolutely right. He was asked that question and he answered it straightforwardly. The repubs had a collective stroke...stating the obvious was simply too much for them! LOL...

[jtown1123]

52. IN all fairness, we don't know if this will affect checks or not. The only precedent is 96

when both parties agreed to pass an emergency bill to keep checks going during the gov't shutdown. I haven't heard any experts clarify whether checks will go out or not.

[CTyankee]

59. I am risk averse to finding out...

[snooper2]

5. OP Fail

[democrat_patriot]

6. 3 hours after he said it. Republicans caved. Sounds good to me.

The GOP/Tea Party will scream and attack anyway, over anything. Even if they made it up - "Death Panels" anyone?

[Kind of Blue]

9. +Infinity! n/t

[jtown1123]

11. The Republicans caved? News to me. Good luck getting any support from seniors.

[dionysus]

28. i know. he's lost the seniors. romney will win in a landslide now!!1

:rofl:

[Whisp]

37. bwahahaha! there go the seniors, right along with all those independents

and gays and disgruntled democrats in the billlllllllions.

:rofl:

[jtown1123]

41. Seniors did not vote for Obama (majority). That won't change this time around.

[CakeGrrl]

7. Oh Noes!!! Stoopid Obamber is destroying the Democratic Party!!!!

Jeebus.


Unrec, by the way.

[dionysus]

27. HEWANTS US ALL TO STARVE!!1!! *sob* *heave*

:rofl:

[lamp_shade]

8. You need to take a break.

[jtown1123]

12. From what exactly?

[reformist2]

14. FAIL. Republicans have ZERO credibility on SS and everyone knows it.

[FiveGoodMen]

15. Everyone knows it? Really?

Michele Bachmann's fans and Sarah Palin's and Rand Paul's and so on and so on ... ?

If everyone knew it, we wouldn't have this crop of fucktards in DC and most state Houses.

[jtown1123]

17. Please read these polls, thanks

http://socialsecurity-works.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SSSCHighlightsofElectionPollonSocialSecurity.pdf

[CTyankee]

31. Hmm, I only saw one poll. But that one was taken in November 2010.

I'd like to see how the voting goes asking the exact same questions today. I don't think that in November of 2010 the situation was the same. I don't recall anybody but some far out repubs talking about actual cuts in SS and Medicare to avoid a government default meltdown...

It's a totally different set of circumstances...

[jtown1123]

55. That poll affected voters in 2010 for sure. It may have changed now but I doubt it.

[CTyankee]

60. You may have a good point there. This was one ugly fight we just saw.

Nobody escaped unscathed from that experience...

[leveymg]

16. I predict this will be the main GOP focus: Obama bailed-out Wall St and wanted to take away SS.

It will resonate enough so that Dems will lose the Senate, even if Obama is reelected.

Just wait - build it, and they will come.

[jtown1123]

19. Yep. It's a winning message for them.

[somone]

38. That will be Obama's legacy

unfortunately.

[leveymg]

70. It will also be the Democratic Party's epitath: we blew the greatest opportunity

in a half-century to expand the New Deal, and let a Third Way President restructure America into a IMF pauper state.

Hero to Zero in four years.

[damntexdem]

18. His statement on checks was reasonable. His considering SS a negoriating chip was not.

[jtown1123]

20. I'm not so sure. The jury is still out whether or not that statement was a lie

[pipi_k]

21. How about this...

Let's say your spouse asks, "Can you guarantee that you'll have a job next year?"

What do you say?


If you answer, "Yes. I guarantee I'll have a job next year", it's a lie. You absolutely cannot guarantee you'll have a job next year.


If you are honest, you say, "No. I cannot guarantee I'll have a job next year". Is that a threat? Or is it a statement of fact?


Obama didn't make a threat. He answered a question in a factual manner.

[jtown1123]

24. He should have said, Social Security has its own Trust Fund and can pay its benefits

[Whisp]

40. I believe there is a writing spot open in the O admin.

you should apply! I'm serries!!!!
they are doing such an awful job it's about time they got some professionalls in, don't you think?

[EC]

22. Huh?

links to polls showing Repubs are more trusted on SS, please. All I've seen are just the opposite and repubs are going to complain about everything Obama, so please, stop the hyperbole.

[jtown1123]

25. Here are the polls:

http://socialsecurity-works.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SSSCHighlightsofElectionPollonSocialSecurity.pdf

This was done by a democratic leaning group so no bias against Democrats...

[EC]

33. I saw THAT one

it's got to be a fluke, since that is the first since the 1930's that slant that way.

[emilyg]

23. It was an unacceptable fear ploy.

[dionysus]

26. he didn't threaten anybody. you are really reaching to find shit to be outraged about. seriously.

chill.

[spanone]

29. remember the teabaggers hate ALL THINGS OBAMA...it doesn't matter what he says

good tactic

[Rockholm]

30. I have not heard of any of the polls you allude to. Sources?

Didn't think so.

[jtown1123]

43. Celinda Lake (the most respected progressive pollster in DC) Here you GO

http://socialsecurity-works.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/SSSCHighlightsofElectionPollonSocialSecurity.pdf

[CTyankee]

51. Again, jt, it's an OLD poll.

I'd like to see that same poll today. Betcha those numbers are different...

[jtown1123]

57. I really don't know. It wasn't that long ago. It's possible. But the damage may be done.

[scheming daemons]

32. Extreme OP fail

..

You have it exactly wrong. On all counts.

[jtown1123]

44. Please explain.

[scheming daemons]

58. Obama has played this as good, or better, than Clinton did the shutdown in '95

In one statement yesterday, he turned around national polls about the debt ceiling.

People were against raising it until he put the effects of not raising it in plain terms that they could understand.

In effect saying, "the debt ceiling gets raised or somebody doesn't get paid."


Everyone knows the GOP is the one using the debt ceiling as a weapon, holding everyone hostage. All Obama was doing is identifying who the hostages were... the GOP's intransigence might cause grandma to not get paid.


McConnell understood the effective weapon that Obama had yielded. Within 2 hours, McConnell raised the white flag (effectively) by giving Obama what he wanted all along... the power to raise the debt ceiling without cuts.



Seniors aren't as stupid as you think... just sometimes they're gullible. But once they're informed, they are very wise in their decision making.


What Obama did yesterday was inform them, in terms that are easy to understand, what the GOP's actions might result in.


It worked.

It was brilliant strategy.

[jtown1123]

62. McConnell is not the one making the decision though.

I can concede it is good strategy from that perspective, so then why do I keep hearing that Obama wants 3- 4 trillion in cuts? Why not just a clean debt bill? This makes me thinks he wanted big spending cuts in the first place.

Also, I did some more reading on McConnell's proposal, and it sounded like future debt ceiling lifts would have to be coupled with spending cuts, voted on by Congress. It didn't seem like a huge win to me. And again, does Boehner agree with McConnell? I haven't heard that.

[jtown1123]

63. Read this from Jon Walker. It pretty much sums up what I can't seem to articulate on McConnell

Not a Bad Political Consolation Prize for McConnell
By: Jon Walker Wednesday July 13, 2011 1:00 pm
Consolation prizes


The current fall back plan from Senate Minority leader Mitch McConnell would allow the debt ceiling to be raised without a bipartisan deal on deficit reduction, while shifting the responsibility for the unpopular task of raising the debt ceiling onto President Obama. It would mean no new spending cuts and no new tax increases.

If you falsely believe the top goals of Congressional Republicans are to reduce the deficit or cut government spending then resolving this debt ceiling stand off by adopting McConnell’s fall back would represent of real missed opportunity and defeat for Republicans. On the other hand if you take the Republicans at their word this isn’t a terrible outcome for them.

Republicans have made clear time and time again that sticking to their no new taxes pledge is their top policy goal. Going with McConnell’s plan means Republicans don’t need to agree to new taxes.

More importantly, McConnell has stated his top priority isn’t to reduce the deficit, it is to make Obama a one term president. From that political perspective McConnell has already won a several big political prize from this debt ceiling negotiation so can bring the process to an end.

This debt ceiling stand off got President Obama to publicly admit he has been pushing for cutting Social Security benefits and got the fact widely reported that he would support raising the Medicare retirement age. Republicans got Obama to go on record supporting these very unpopular cut without the GOP also needing to agree to them. I imagine the Republicans are already working Obama support for cutting Social Security into some really good 30 second campaign ads.

In addition Obama has made much of his brand about being able to pull Washington together in a post partisan way to get big things done. McConnell rejecting the grand bargain hurts this image.

If the only thing McConnell wins from the stand off after “folding” on a demand for deficit reduction, is getting Obama to publicly admit he personally pushed for cutting Social Security benefits, I’d consider that a pretty good consolation prize.

[CTyankee]

64. This ignores the many statements in support of SS and Medicare made by Obama during this

recent fight. It also ignores the Ryan plan that every Republican in the House voted for. It is THEIR plan and it calls for dismantling Medicare. No getting around that.

[jtown1123]

66. True. But that was shot down. Ryan Budget didn't pass.

President Obama and all of his team are very careful to say they are opposed to "slashing" Social Security. When asked if they would support cuts or small trims, they demur.

Here's a video that pretty much sums up my concern on Obama and Social Security:

Briefing room word games: What's a 'slash' versus a 'cut' in Social Security?-CHRISTIAN SCIENCE MONITOR. White House press briefings are often about dancing on the head of a pin. As in, asking the same question over and over until the press secretary says something quotable. Or slicing and dicing words so fine that they lose meaning. Or are reduced to hand gestures. http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/070...

VIDEO of White House Press Secretary Jay Carney:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/whitehouse/slash-or-cut-...

[CTyankee]

68. I agree. It wasn't good for Obama, either.

OTOH,you had stalwarts like Nancy Pelosi, who stuck to their guns and never faltered...

[Whisp]

34. you may think Obama is a lot of things. but one thing he is not is stupid....

and the GOP makes shit up all the time anyway. why do you believe them this time?

[jtown1123]

45. I don't believe the GOP. Did you read the OP. I said, they will take this and run with it

[Whisp]

47. of course they will, and water runs down hill.

is this news to you?

[jtown1123]

50. Not news. Just a terrible tactic on Obama's part. Is this news to him?

[WI_DEM]

53. So if the government shuts down that is Obama's fault? not greedy GOP

[jtown1123]

56. No. When did I say that? I am saying it is poor messaging on SS

[AtomicKitten]

65. Um, he didn't threaten anything, he simply answered a direct question.

The GOP teabaggers are dumbshits. Don't fuel their idiocy but buying into their braying.

[dionysus]

67. YES HE DID! *sob*

:rofl:
:hi:

[AtomicKitten]

69. snrk

[dionysus]

71. .

:rofl:

:hi:

[dionysus]

72. ROFL... keep wishin'

:spray:

[lumberjack_jeff]

73. It would have been more effective if he hadn't just unilaterally offered to cut it. n/t

[Marr]

74. Polls show that Republicans are more trusted on SS?

Sorry, but you're going to have to prove that one. I find that difficult to believe.