Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Are you wikkid smaht? Quizz: if nothing is done at all, how many years will it take...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:00 PM
Original message
Are you wikkid smaht? Quizz: if nothing is done at all, how many years will it take...
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 05:03 PM by MannyGoldstein
(if ever) for the annual deficit to go to roughly zero? How long until the debt stops increasing?

Doing zero. No change to current law.

Feel free to post your guesses/answers below. If nobody gets the right answer in a little while, I'll post it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. You're referring to this CBO forecast?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Ding-Ding-Ding! A winner!
This is what all the fuss is about? 3 years?

More evidence that this is all simply shock-doctrining us so we give the Social Security Trust Fund to the wealthiest.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-11 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. This is glib and harmful nonsense
Read the combined Trustees report summary:
http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html
Under current law, Medicare goes bust around 2023 (last date, earliest date about 2018), and Social Security goes bust by 2036. Yeah, the budget would be balanced - but that's because seniors wouldn't be getting benefits.

Also, those graphs:
Primary spending is the budget spending ASIDE from the interest expense. When you put interest expense in there, the deficit expands forever.

Also, do you understand HOW the budget gets balanced under current law?

For example, the Bush tax cuts expire. The 10% tax bracket becomes 15%. The 25% tax bracket becomes 28%. Yeah, it's so nice that the top taxpayers pay 39.6%, but then the 5% penalty on the lower earners is gonna hurt, especially since their personal deduction gets cut.

Under current law, full disability payments will no longer be made by 2017/2018, with about a 20% cut estimated for 2018. Do you know many disabled people who could survive on 75-80% of what they are now getting? And this would not save any money, because more of them would have to rely on food stamps and Medicaid and so forth, so when you actually sit down and analyze it, the budget doesn't get balanced under current law.

But maybe you don't give a crap about some disabled person getting a $980 check. Well, I bet you do care about your Social Security and Medicare future.

Under current law, Medicare reimbursements to physicians get cut about 29% in January of next year. And there are further cuts every year after that, so by about 2025 (14 years from now), the Medicare trustees estimate that doctors and hospitals will only be paid about half of current payment levels. You really think your insurance is going to be worth a flip if that happens?

Here is the Medicare Trustees report. I suggest you read it:
https://www.cms.gov/ReportsTrustFunds/downloads/tr2011.pdf

In past reports, and again this year, the Board of Trustees has emphasized the strong likelihood that actual Part B expenditures will exceed the projections under current law due to further legislative action to avoid substantial reductions in the Medicare physician fee schedule. While the Part B projections in this report are reasonable in their portrayal of future costs under current law, they are not reasonable as an indication of actual future costs. Current law would require a physician fee reduction of an estimated 29.4 percent on January 1, 2012—an implausible expectation.

Further, while the Affordable Care Act makes important changes to the Medicare program and substantially improves its financial outlook, there is a strong likelihood that certain of these changes will not be viable in the long range. Specifically, the annual price updates for most categories of non-physician health services will be adjusted downward each year by the growth in economy-wide productivity. The best available evidence indicates that most health care providers cannot improve their productivity to this degree—or even approach such a level—as a result of the labor-intensive nature of these services.

Without major changes in health care delivery systems, the prices paid by Medicare for health services are very likely to fall increasingly short of the costs of providing these services. By the end of the long-range projection period, Medicare prices for hospital, skilled nursing facility, home health, hospice, ambulatory surgical center, diagnostic laboratory, and many other services would be less than half of their level under the prior law. Medicare prices would be considerably below the current relative level of Medicaid prices, which have already led to access problems for Medicaid enrollees, and far below the levels paid by private health insurance. Well before that point, Congress would have to intervene to prevent the withdrawal of providers from the Medicare market and the severe problems with beneficiary access to care that would result. Overriding the productivity adjustments, as Congress has done repeatedly in the case of physician payment rates, would lead to far higher costs for Medicare in the long range than those projected under current law.

For these reasons, the financial projections shown in this report for Medicare do not represent a reasonable expectation for actual program operations in either the short range (as a result of the unsustainable reductions in physician payment rates) or the long range (because of the strong likelihood that the statutory reductions in price updates for most categories of Medicare provider services will not be viable). I encourage readers to review the “illustrative alternative” projections that are based on more sustainable assumptions for physician and other Medicare price updates. These projections are available at http://www.cms.gov/ActuarialStudies/Downloads/2011TRAlternativeScenario.pdf.


Regardless, let's assume that all this does go into effect. See page 79. The Medicare HI trust fund is due to run out some time between 2018 and 2023, even under current law. And at that point, you don't have hospital insurance. This will be a savings to the budget, I grant you.

As for Social Security, the last Trustees report figured the trust fund would be exhausted in 2036, after which Social Security benefits were estimated to be paid at about 77% of full benefits. What a coincidence! 2037 is the first year I qualify for full SS benefits! I'm thrilled. Too bad I will never get Medicare.

But damn, it's nice to know that the budget will be balanced under current law! Why the hell would anyone worry?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
damntexdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. Depends on how you define it: 0 or 1.
Once the Dubya tax cuts end, assuming they're not extended again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. I thought Obama was "hell bent" on killing Social Security?
Is that still true?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. He's just hell bent on grabbing the Trust Fund for the wealthiest
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 05:15 PM by MannyGoldstein
Did I ever say otherwise?

And that hasn't changed.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
somone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Our Reformer with Results
Edited on Wed Jul-13-11 05:18 PM by somone




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. I thought that "this was it" ... this time he'd "grab it" ....
Are you still predicting that its about to happen?

Or not?

Or ... are you just, "moving on" ??
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Do you have a specific quote of mine that you'd like me to comment on?
Or are you just trolling?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. Clearly .... I'm just trolling.
You've definitely never claimed that Obama was about to announce major cuts to SS.

My bad.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I once said he'd call for cuts at the SOTU address
Which he did, although using his clever "cut" vs. "slash" word games. The press has finally figured this game out, and called him on this bullshit:

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politics/The-Vote/2011/0707/Briefing-room-word-games-What-s-a-slash-versus-a-cut-in-Social-Security

I think he'll get more explicit in the next two weeks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JoePhilly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-11 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Didn't you also say he was "hell bent" on such cuts ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Yo_Mama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-11 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. You, sir, are ignorant
See my other post.

The trust funds are inadequate to cover benefits under current law.

At this point I am not an Obama fan, but he's not trying steal people's retirements.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-11 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. No, I'm right
Edited on Thu Jul-14-11 08:35 PM by MannyGoldstein
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. IMF prediction:




from zerohedge.com
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. The IMF is owned by the Bankers
They want to shock doctrine us into handing them the Social Security Trust Fund.

I'll stick with the CBO - and Obama has sworn that, next time, the Bush tax cuts will reallyreallyreallyreallyreallyreally expire, so we have to go with the red line.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. yes, of course; and their intentions are bad
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
reformist2 Donating Member (998 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 05:52 PM
Response to Original message
12. Something's missing in that graph - I *know* the budget wasn't balanced in 2008.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 04:26 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » General Discussion Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC