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Drahthaardogs Donating Member (482 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:44 PM
Original message
I don't understand business.
I have a friend who is calling for the U.S. to default. He is praying it happens. I just cannot imagine how a person obviously intelligent enough to have a degree and run a somewhat successful business would take such a position. Do they really want to see the dollar no longer used as the currency for commodities. Do they really want to see this country implode? What could be gained by that? A good businessman would WANT middle and lower class to prosper. It would seem to me a rich person would rather pay a few more taxes than have the middle class or lower class pay them or have benefits that sap their wages cut. More money in my pocket means more money in THEIR pocket. Are they this fucking dense? Have they never read the story of the goose that laid the golden egg? I just have no idea what to tell this fool.
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Drale Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Even Intelligent people can act really stupid
When they have their head up their ass and watch far to much faux news.
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LaurenG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Really - we would have a depression. The markets would crash just for starters.
Tell your friend to go read up on the depression. The markets are dependent on the confidence of investors, if we don't raise the ceiling we can't pay our debt and investors lose confidence. It only gets worse from there.
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postulater Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
8. Is there a good primer on the depression that explains what happens when the markets crash?
To me the markets (I think you mean the stock markets) are just a gambling game for people with money to play with. I don't see them as productive at all. So to me if they never existed it wouldn't make any difference.

But clearly I'm wrong since the great depression seems to be blamed on the market crash.

Is there a simple explanation available somewhere?

I'm serious, I can barely balance a checkbook.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Your Friend Is a Nihilist, Sir, That Is All
He imagines he will prosper amid massive-scale destruction, because he imagines he is a superior creature, who is only held back by the structure of society from reaching his full potential. People who combine this mental attitude with the cossetted existence of a businessman in the modern West wind up dead in ditches when things truly do come unhinged.
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:57 PM
Response to Original message
4. I know some really rich ppl who are fucking stupid...one of them
emphatically states that "bush" was our greatest president ever.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 07:59 PM
Response to Original message
5. He is one of them religious fanatics
yes, this is a religion... and they are that nuts.
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RickFromMN Donating Member (275 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 10:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. A Nihilist? Or a realist? It's a game of chicken. Which side will blink first.

The Republicans are used to seeing the Democrats cave.

We want our President to have a backbone. We want our President to stand for something.
How many posts have asked our President to stand up to these bullies?

Now he's showing signs he's refusing to capitulate. And we are scared of the consequences.
What are the consequences if he continues to capitulate?
What was the point voting for a Democratic President if he always capitulates?

We are damned if we continually cave. We couldn't appease Hitler. He kept demanding more.

There is a risk if we don't cave and the other side doesn't learn to compromise.
It will mean another Great Depression. It will mean political revolution.
If we are lucky, the political revolution will be non-violent.

Societal progress cannot be uniform.
We must have times of advancement, of progress.
We must have times of backsliding, of consolidation.
Are we entering, or perhaps we are already in, an era of consolidation?

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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 10:11 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cake. Eat. Too.
They want to live in a fantasy land where they can do business . . . without business.

They want demand, they just don't want to pay the price to GET that demand.

They want low taxes, but don't seem to get that whole mess isn't free. Kind of like all the resources they consume, yet they still insist up and down that they're all "self made".

They want consumers to continue buying without having to employ any of us.
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Ragnarok Donating Member (133 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-11 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. Personally, I believe that many of those who...
...are calling for a default are at some level acknowledging likely defeat of whatever it is they align to - their mores, values, status and upbringing. In other words... fear. They believe no quarter will be given, and as such, to many of them this is a very real war of survival. They know at some level the war is not winnable in their lifetimes; that their days are coming to an end. We tell them all the time, sometimes quite nastily, that we despise them and hate them. We tell them that the things they hold to be true, of value and of importance are shameful, useless and to be looked upon with disgust. The pendulum swings both ways, and just as we righteously lash out at their oppression, so will they at what they perceive as oppression. A goodly number of them see the various changes that we are going through in American society and believe there is no place for them. They are probably correct in many cases. Many believe that they must by definition lose something important to them in order for someone else, or another "group" to gain something important. They fear retribution for the crimes they are accused of, because they know that they will inevitably lose by our sheer numbers which are bolstered by higher birth rates, immigration and the fact that more people join the ranks of the "getting less class" the longer that their brand of regulated capitalism goes on. And keep in mind, that's just the domestic stuff. These people weren't raised to pander to the growing powers in Asia, or anyone else. Suicide is a better alternative that "enslavement to Commies."

So, when taking a step back... we see a doomed people with dwindling options and shrinking numbers. Like some horror movie with unseen snarling monsters in dark closing in on the campers with their backs to an ever dwindling fire, poking their knives outward to slash at any noise or whisper they imagine lurks in the growing darkness that will eventually swallow them. They know enemies are at the gate, as we have told them in countless surveys, population studies and polls. They believe we will likely not be merciful - they know we aren't largely the peaceniks of the 1960's and they know they wouldn't be merciful in launching a counter attack. Ergo, they expect no quarter and will give none. They are losing what they believe to be "their" country, or at least the country they would want to be a part of. They know we want the wealth they have accumulated and that we won't do with it as they would have done. They know we will sanction the government to use men with guns to take what we deem as fair to us via the IRS, the FBI, the ATF, and the other alphabet soup we give those powers to. In short, the deficit means nothing to them in the end game. The world is ending, their house is on fire, and they know there is nowhere to go but down for them. Scorched earth means nothing to the man who knows he will be gone soon enough. These folks don't care, because there is no incentive to care in their view of what's to come. With all the water under the bridge, I can understand, even if I disagree, why they feel their is no deal to be made and no happily ever after to be had with the new management. Change is painful, and painful not only for the ones who must change. We all know this, so settle in for the bumpy ride. It will definitely get worse before it gets extremely bad. This is merely the beginning. I fear the truly scary folks, haven't even made an appearance yet.
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