Can the President have a Supreme Court Justice arrested?

[LuvNewcastle]

I've been thinking about the situation regarding our debt ceiling and I've been wondering if this controversy could set off a Constitutional crisis. Tension is building between the Congress and the President, and the courts might be called upon to mediate in a dispute. It could be very beneficial for the President if one of the conservative SC Justices were to be removed. We all know about Justice Thomas's issues with the IRS, and I'm curious about whether the Justice Department could have Thomas arrested for tax evasion and have him detained. I certainly don't want events to spiral that far out of control, but I believe this kind of hypothetical situation should be considered What do you know?

[dkf]

1. Isn't there some sort of protection the other branches claim?

Didn't Jefferson try to pull that?

[LuvNewcastle]

3. Maybe it was Jefferson.

It sounds like something Jackson would do. He was such a hothead. I think such a thing has been tried before, but there wasn't a real reason for it as there is in Thomas's case. What Thomas has done is easily as bad as Watergate was.

[elleng]

2. Arrested? Probably not. With proper evidence, IRS could 'charge' him,

more likely 'demand' the alleged arrears.

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I guess it would be hard to have such

a high-placed figure arrested. And we can forget about Thomas resigning out of embarrassment. The man is shameless.

[elleng]

6. My point is that I don't think Treasury Dept (IRS) arrests for tax avoidance,

certainly not before the matter is fully examined and heard; has nothing to do with 'high-placed.'

[LuvNewcastle]

9. gotcha

:)

[MADem]

4. ???

The President isn't the Justice Department--he's the Chief Executive. Justice acts independently of him, they do not take orders from him, and they can't arrest people because he wants it to happen (see Nixon and the whole "Impeach the Cox Sacker" business to get some flavor on that; see Clinton and Reno to get a sense of a President not being able to tell Justice what to do).

Congress makes law. The President either signs or vetoes it. Congress can override a veto.

Someone would have to petition the Supremes if they felt a law was unconstitutional. Raising the debt ceiling, or engaging in taxation, or cutting the budget, are all things that have been done before, so the Supremes are unlikely to even agree to hear the case.

Any tax issues a citizen has are between them and the Department of the Treasury; Treasury (IRS) has to initiate action -- not the President or even the Justice Department.

[elleng]

7. ...

:thumbsup:

[LuvNewcastle]

8. I get a little confused about who the Justice Dept.

is answerable to. I know that the Attorney General is appointed by the Pres. and confirmed by Congress. Is the AG a member of the Cabinet? It seems like the AG serves at the pleasure of the Pres.

Also, I suppose that Treasury would have to file a complaint, but wouldn't Justice have to issue a warrant for an arrest? The Secret Service works for Treas., so I suppose they could carry out a warrant.

Please bear with me. It's been 20 years since I took an American government class.:)

[MADem]

10. The President picks the person to head up Justice (the Attorney General) and then

backs off, pretty much. The AG is a Cabinet member. The President can ask for the AG's resignation, but it better be because, say, the AG is behaving like a drunken noxious ass, or comporting himself in an unbecoming manner, or has a conflict of interest....and not be because he doesn't like the way the AG is doing his/her job.

The IRS has their own specialized Criminal Investigation Division. They're well trained in ferreting out who owes what and how much. They usually only resort to jailing people as a last resort, for example, the person blatantly refuses to pay any taxes and makes a bundle, or the person has made money through illegal activity. What they first try to do is get the cash, after they do an audit and present the taxpayer with a bill. If the taxpayer persists in being difficult, then they'll refer the case to Justice for prosecution, but that's way down the line, usually.

[LuvNewcastle]

11. Thanks for a very thorough answer.

So it looks like it's theoretically possible, but Thomas has a better chance of being struck by lightning. I think there's going to be a battle over this issue in the courts before it's all over with, and I'm pessimistic about the outcome if that happens. Maybe Scalia will go hunting with Dick Cheney again.

[MADem]

12. If Fat Tony went hunting with Dick, Dick should be the one who is worried!

Fat Tony's a survivor--tough as nails and crazy, too.

Thomas would more likely be hit by that bus he likes to drive around the country (yes, he owns a giant bus that he has tricked out like an RV).

[LuvNewcastle]

14. OMG, a bus?

I wonder if he and his lovely wife take turns driving the damn thing. I'm getting a mental picture of them camping out in Wal-Mart parking lots all over the country. Greyhound suits them very well.

[MADem]

18. Yep....apparently he's got the thing all tricked out with every comfort.

And yeah, they do use it as a rolling hotel.

I seem to recall him saying in some interview (Larry King, maybe?) that he found the driving "relaxing."

[Major Hogwash]

13. Fuck yes! The Patriot Act gave the President a lot of powers that haven't been tested yet.

Arresting some lowly Supreme Court Justice would be easier than falling off a log nowadays.

[LuvNewcastle]

15. I forgot about the Patriot Act.

I'm going to call the White House and tell them Thomas is a Muslim.

[NYC Liberal]

16. "very beneficial for the President" is no reason to arrest anyone,

let alone a member of the Supreme Court. Convenience to the president is the last thing that should influence any potential arrest.

And the Justice Department would not arrest a Supreme Court justice without a thorough, lengthy investigation. Absolutely no way that precedent is being set simply on a whim.

[LuvNewcastle]

17. I know that they wouldn't be able to

make an ostensibly political arrest like that. But if a powerful person wants to get someone out of the picture, he can usually find some reason to do it. From what I'm read, the evidence against Thomas is damning, and it looks like there is more than enough evidence to charge him with something. If something like that was to be attempted, it would need to happen soon; if a controversial case involving the Pres. was to come before the Court, it would already be too late to attempt something like that.

[NYC Liberal]

21. But it shouldn't be done. That is something tin-pot dictators

and Republicans (like Nixon and Bush) would do. Criminal investigations should be independent. Arrests (particularly of Supreme Court justices) should not be made for the convenience of the president.

Actually, it would probably be an impeachable offense if a president pulled a stunt like the one you're talking about.

[Posteritatis]

19. Christ on a crutch. (nt)

[SmileyRose]

20. Even if he can --- doesn't mean he should.

Thomas may or may not be jailable. My vote is wait until this crisis is over.