Experts differ on age kids should walk alone (after murder of Brooklyn boy)

[Liberal_in_LA]

Experts differ on age kids should walk alone
Brooklyn boy's murder leaves parents asking how young is too young

The brutal slaying of a Brooklyn boy this week has left many parents asking how young is too young to let your child walk home alone.

Leibby Kletzky was just short of 9-years-old and wanted to be a big boy and walk home from his day camp by himself. He lost his way and lost his life after turning to a stranger for help, authorities said.

According to child experts, there is no magic age when it is safe to allow your child to walk alone.

"You have to know your own child," said Bernie Kessler, owner and executive director of Oasis, one of the largest day camp operations in the Tri-State.

Children should be at least 12 years old, according to Wendy Levey, owner and executive director of 74th Street Magic Day Camp.

http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/43753889/ns/today-parenting_and_family/t/experts-differ-age-kids-should-walk-alone/

[brooklynite]

1. How times change...

I rode the subway alone when I was his age.

[HockeyMom]

13. Yes, I did too (West Village),

but most times I was with friends. I also went to and from school alone at about 7, but by that I mean minus an adult. I usually arranged to meet a classmate or two and we went together to and from. One girl lived across the street and the other three blocks away. Not only safer, but far more fun.

I did this with my daughter. There was a girl about 4 years older (11) and she met her and they walked together. It was a very long walk and I didn't drive at the time. This was in Queens. One year there was a rapist in the neighborhood who was abducting young girls. The store owners in the area got together and posted safe zones in all their windows. Any child who had any trouble could go into these stores and know they could receive help. By that time, I had a car and drove both girls to and from school.

My own parents used to say find a police officer if you are in trouble, or go into a store, or a restaurant. Don't ask for help from strange adults.

Poor little boy. My heart goes out to the family.

[KittyWampus]

25. The section he's from is really safe. But I guess you know that. It's just so sad.

[yurbud]

2. I started riding the bus by myself in junior high. My dad and father-in-law took trolley alone at 5

[sharp_stick]

3. I walked to kindergarten on my own

and to the store but my neighborhood was a really nice one set up for walking.

I don't think my kids would walk alone until they are at least 10.

[Name removed]

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[hlthe2b]

7. I was sort of thnking along the same lines...

Some kids are more instinctively able to judge dangerous situations, while others may not be very conducive to training or lectures or any other intervention, short of just sticking with them until they gain the maturity. :shrug:

[lapislzi]

9. "Don't talk to strangers." That doesn't work.

Adults talk to strangers all the time. We talk to sales associates, people on the train, all kinds of people. I always thought "don't talk to strangers" was a mixed message. SOME strangers are OK to talk to. The trick is teaching the kids which strangers are OK to approach (police officers, crossing guards, moms with strollers), and which strangers are to be avoided.

Any adult that goes up to a kid for "help" is up to something. I'm not saying that's what happened here (I'm too distraught to actually read the article), but I spent a lot of time showing my daughter who it might be safe to talk to if she needed help.

And, nothing's foolproof. Just because I told my daughter that moms with kids were probably OK to talk to, doesn't mean there's not a whacko mom out there ready to off a kid. Doubtful, but not impossible.

[Tatiana]

12. It's interesting. Some co-workers of mine stated that they teach their children to approach

a female with a child or children if they are ever lost or in danger.

That sort of made sense to me.

[pnwmom]

19. I taught mine to ask a person behind a counter to help them.

But I guess if they were outdoors, a woman with children would be a reasonable alternative.

[laundry_queen]

33. This is what I have taught my kids

My mom's work had a police woman who had spent a lot of her career teaching safety for children and had written a book for kids on safety. My mom got me a copy and I read it to my kids all the time. The number one thing is to ask another mommy or lady for help. Statistically, not only are they more likely to not harm the child, but their follow-through skills on making sure the child is okay and ends up with their parents are better than most male's follow through skills.

[Brickbat]

14. "Don't talk to strangers" is a huge mixed message we send our kids. Instead of saying "don't" do

something, it makes more sense to talk about how you decide a stranger is OK to talk to. Context is everything; it's just harder to teach than "don't talk to strangers."

[lapislzi]

17. Exactly.

My rule of thumb was, "if you're in trouble, find a mom." I don't know any mom who wouldn't drop everything or move heaven and earth to help a child in trouble.

The other thing I taught my daughter was the "password." If an adult (any adult) asked her to go with them and tried the "your mom said it's OK" thing, they had to say the password, or no go. Only my husband, my daughter, and I knew the password. I promised her that anyone I legitimately sent to pick her up in my absence would know the password.

[KittyWampus]

29. I just have to share this story- I was in TJMaxx's shoe isle and came across a 4 yr old boy bawling.

I looked up and down the aisle and no Mom. Just a young girl on a cell phone texting and another woman looking at a pair of shoes.

I went to the young boy and asked "do you know where your Mommy is?" and he shook his head still crying. I took his hand and walked a few aisles in either direction loudly asking "is this your son?"

No answer, I took him up to the front of the store and they had an announcement for Mom to come up and pick up her kid.

I couldn't believe that teen girl and other woman did NOTHING to help that crying little boy.

What.The.Heck.???

[digonswine]

18. A kid with a black belt in karate--

is still a kid. A smallish child has no real chance against the normal adult. That being said--I am glad I do not have to make those decisions!

[soleft]

5. What would you do in this situation?

I'm kind of a softball addict and often run up the street to a nearby playground to pitch during my lunch hours. This is NYC and the park is between the Brooklyn Bridge and a housing project. Usually there is no one there, but Monday there were two small boys playing on the softball diamond. There were alone, and about 8 and 6 years old.

I told them I only had a half hour to practice and asked if I could use the plate and the pitching mound and they could play catch off the side. They were really sweet and aquiesqued, but after a few minutes they asked if I would pitch to them.

I was working on a low pitch so I said Okay, and the three of us played together. It was fun, but afterwards as the news of the boy in Brooklyn broke, I wondered if I had done the right thing, engaging them in play with a strange adult.

What if they next person they ask to play with isn't me.

[hlthe2b]

11. well, the odds are still in their favor, fortunately....

And, I refuse to disregard the kindness of strangers in all cases. It has gotten me around the world and back, many a time. I might have felt compelled to remind them that they need to be cautious around strangers and never go along with them anywhere, nor become separated from each other.

[firehorse]

15. Soleft.... me and my bf have played softball east river leagues, sunday leagues for years

wonder if I know you ....

NYC is interesting that way in that there are communities. In the softball "community" we all can recognize and feel safe within our softball tribe. The boy in Brooklyn must have felt saft in his insulated jewish community.

[soleft]

23. My league sometimes plays in East River Park

In fact, we were suppose to have a game there on the 9th, on the turf fields, 1 and 2, but the areas around home plate and first and 3rd base were under water. So, having schleped all the way from the Jersey Shore, I said, let's set the bases up between fields 1 and 2 and play on the dry turf, there's plenty of room.

The other team refused play, they say because it had to be a regulation field, which was BS. I think they were missing some key people. Now the games have to be rescheduled, god knows where or when.

Our league, the Big Apple Softball League, plays all over the map, Hudson River Park, Central Park, Randalls Island, Prospect Park. With so many leagues it's always a mad scramble for permits.

I have friend who has a five year old who lives in Kensington, I need to check in with her and see how's she doing - she probably didn't know the family of the little boy in Bklyn, but so close to home...

My son started taking the subway from the village to Grammercy Park when he was about 12. I was a nervous wreck.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. Are you out of your fucking mind?

In today's environment?

[hlthe2b]

6. Gawd, how sad....

When I think back to my sister and I being able to walk or bike all over the neighborhood, even across our relatively small town, checking mud puddles for errant marbles and just generally being "free" to be a kid, I feel so sad. Of course by the time we had moved a dozen times and hit high school, the risks were already grossly changed.

Just makes me very sad...

[Tatiana]

8. I used to take the CTA bus to school starting with 6th grade.

I remember being freaked out when a guy propositioned me while I was waiting at the bus stop. Unfortunately, this is truly a dangerous world full of dangerous individuals. I take my child directly to school even though I think she is old enough at 13 to get there herself using public transportation.

As a general rule of thumb, I don't let my daughter go anywhere without me unless she is in a group of other kids.

[Brickbat]

10. And sometimes, no matter what, something horrible is going to happen. This mom clearly thought her

kid could handle it, and her kid just had the very bad luck of picking a psychopath.

[Pithlet]

21. I agree.

It's so awful I can't even bear to think about it :(

[NotThisTime]

16. There's no magic age, I worry about my 16 year old... my 13 year old wouldn't be safe for a minute

she weighs about a hundred pounds and is unable to run and is entirely too trusting... if it were up to me I wouldn't let her out until she was married, that's not how it will work though.

[Lex]

20. Even adults can get randomly killed by crazy people.

nt

[HockeyMom]

26. That is very true

Even as an adult when I have asked for directions from a stranger, and they offered to walk with me, I politely have said thank you, but I will find my own way. Old habits die hard I suppose.

[renate]

22. what a horrible horrible story

It sounds like the parents were very responsible (edit to add: in a good way, I mean--not that they were responsible for what happened), because they practiced the route with him and had arranged to meet him halfway.

It just goes to show that you never know--the news story I just watched said it was a close-knit community. One unfortunate thing is that there was a delay in calling the police because the Shomram patrol was contacted first. So, this happened in a community so close-knit that it had its own neighborhood watch/police organization... which would seem to be the safest area possible for a child. No wonder he trusted a stranger. Poor little guy. :cry:

[pipi_k]

24. This is why age limits don't make sense to me...

OK, say someone decides 12 is old enough.

What does that mean? A kid who's 11 is too young, he's 11 1/2 and too young, he's 11 3/4 and too young.

The day before his 12th birthday he's too young.

At the stroke of midnight he turns 12. Now all of a sudden he's old enough?


That doesn't make sense.


Also...it's not like adults aren't attacked and killed as well.

[HockeyMom]

27. At some point in time you have to trust your child

and let go. As you said, even adults can be attacked and killed.

[Nye Bevan]

30. The trick is to advise your kids to ask only *women* for help.

Not necessarily moms, just women. Statistically it is practically inconceivable that a randomly chosen woman will be a psycho murderer.

[moondust]

37. Good idea.

Recommended.

[Odin2005]

31. I was walking home from school when I was 6.

[riderinthestorm]

32. I was too, but my school was 4 houses away.

No way would I allow my 8 year old to walk alone in the city for any reason, let alone 3 - 4 city blocks.

No way.

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. I lived about 10 house from school but still had to wait for my sister

She got of class a bit later and we walked together

[hfojvt]

34. I could have sworn I walked to kindergarten

that almost all of us did in my litle town. I also went home for lunch most days all through grade school. It was only about two blocks, or 2.5 blocks to the edge of the school property. Kids may have been getting rides without my knowledge though. I know most of the kids got rides to the before school band practice in the 5th and 6th grade. I used to get there super early and set up the chairs.

[laundry_queen]

35. Same. And it was a 20 minute walk (for little 6 year old me).

Then when I was 7, a 6 year old girl in a nearby city - I was in the burbs - got abducted on the way to school and was never found, not even to this day. After that, the parents got together and always made sure us kids walked in groups. When I got older my mom changed her work hours so she could at least take me to school, especially in the winter when it was still dark. I will admit to letting my 5 year old once walk on her own, but we were in a really remote community, and it was only down the street and I could see her halfway - plus the next door neighbor boys walked at the same time. Her older sister was sick, as was I and my 2 little ones, one a newborn. I will admit to feeling safer in that small remote community. I'm in the 'burbs of a big city now and only let my older 3 kids go walking if they are together (8, almost 11 and 14). One thing I don't understand is how the child got lost if his parents took him walking that way quite often. There's no way I'd let my kid walk on their own if they weren't 1000% sure of the way. But what awful luck that he asked the wrong guy for directions - if that story is even true.

[JI7]

36. i think they should at least walk in a group with other kids but not alone

[XemaSab]

38. I was walking to school when I was 10

across busy streets in a big city.

I think in some ways big cities are safer than the 'burbs. I didn't feel like there was any threat until I got near by house, which was in a quieter neighborhood.

[BlueMTexpat]

39. IMO, once children are of school age, context is just about everything.

Context includes the neighborhood (urban vs rural, etc.), time of day, sensitization and awareness of those living/working in the area, proximity to the destination, maturity and awareness of the child involved, and many, many other factors. As the "experts" say, there is no "magic age" when children will be safe from predators, but there are several ways in which risks can and should be minimized. Most are purely and simply common sense.

That said, I am very glad that I was able to raise my own children in what seems, at least in retrospect, to have been a kinder, gentler - and more innocent - era. My grandchildren must navigate in this one.

This is one reason why we should all be working to make this world kinder and safer by providing for social safety nets insofar as we can. This means working together for good and functional government, not trying to destroy it as the mean, nasty and short-sighted TP'ers wish to do.