Half of US social program recipients believe they "have not used a government social program"

[StarburstClock]

I saw this on RT today:

http://www.boingboing.net/2011/07/08/half-of-us-social-pr.html

---"Reconstituting the Submerged State: The Challenges of Social Policy Reform in the Obama Era," a paper by Cornell's Clinton Rossiter Professor of American Institutions Suzanne Mettler features this remarkable chart showing that about half of American social program beneficiaries believe that they "have not used a government social program." It's the "Keep your government hands off my Medicare" phenomena writ large: a society of people who subsist on mutual aid and redistributive policies who've been conned (and conned themselves) into thinking that they are rugged individualists and that everyone else is a parasite.---

[WorseBeforeBetter]

1. And Democrats are doing a shitty job at combatting that belief.

We *do* suck at messaging.

[jwirr]

2. Some of this is because government programs are often presented

as non-government programs so that people will apply for them. I.e. I worked on the board of an weatherization program that fixed up housing. When is is presented as "welfare" people are often too proud to accept the help. When it is just a weatherization program they will take it. Elderly are often ashamed to accept anything that sounds like welfare.

[SoutherDem]

3. I find that a common perception.

Most of my Republican friends thing they don't get any benefit from their taxes, and consider "social programs" something only "lazy" people get.

I don't know if it is true, but I have read if we eliminated ALL federally collected taxes and we had to "pay as we go" for every benefit we get from the federal government, the yearly "bill" that we would get for services rendered would be more than the taxes we pay, until our income reached over $300K.

[DeadEyeDyck]

11. If I am only making $50K and using that much,

who is paying for them?

[SoutherDem]

14. I am not sure if I fully understand your question, but ...

this is how I understood the article.
If some one makes $50K and pays $10K in federal taxes, they get services (many I wouldn't have thought of) for that $10K. Instead of paying any tax you take home the entire $50K, but now you write a series of checks for various services, including and amount to the military for protecting us (even if we don't like the war), the FBI for fighting crime, NASA for the space program, ect. Each service may be just a few cents each, some may be considerably more, this is for services which are shared and the benefit of that service is shared. Also, we would pay toils for roads, (some federal money goes into almost all roads), or pay for individual services just like we pay to mail a letter. The original author is saying if you added all of those services together the bill would be more then the $10K that would have been paid in taxes. I doubted it to some extent but then I thought of all the things our government really does, and it seems possible. But, as I said I don't know it is true. The reason I brought it up and the original author's intent (if his theory is wrong) is many people thing they don't get anything from the government and could get alone fine without it, true or not it does make you think of all we rely on the government to do. It seems most people feel they pay more in taxes than they get benefits in return, there has to be a break even point somewhere, it might not be $300K like the article suggested, but it has to be a decent amount or we wouldn't have the trillions of dollars of debt.

If I didn't answer the question, or I misunderstood the question please let me know and I will reply again.

[joshcryer]

12. Would love a source for that, I don't disbelieve you, of course. I've heard very similar.

Government has a high value added aspect.

[SoutherDem]

13. Like I said I don't know if it is true, and I don't remember..

... where I read it, but it was referring to everything, if I remember correctly the person who claims this is true applied a value to everything, in other words we would get a bill for our share of the military, the space program, FBI, and any other shared service, for things which we use directly we would pay a specific amount for just what we use so there would be a toil for every mile we drive (remember there is federal money given to state, counties and cities for road construction). I thought the claim seem unbelievable but after I thought for a while, and considered how much money flows through the federal government and the amount they (we) owe it seems possible.

[Maru Kitteh]

4. I know at least a dozen of them myself! K&R

[bhikkhu]

5. If you drive a car on roads, have running water and electricity...

you enjoy the benefits of government programs.

And then there's the police that enforce the legal system, and then the legal system itself at the heart of the "rule of law" that we all enjoy the benefits of.

[marybourg]

6. It's also the system that allows business to function, by enforcing

contracts, the rights of creditors and of stockholders.

[steelmania75]

7. and therein lies the problem. nt

[saras]

8. If you're American and not British, you've used a government social program - it's called America

Besides, rugged individualists mine their own ores, smelt their own metal, work their own wood, farm and store their own crops, hunt, butcher, and preserve their own meat, and reproduce by parthenogenesis.

I'd be more impressed with a poll/quiz that asks people to name ten government programs or functions that they have personally benefited from (perhaps with a small reward for completing the poll) ;)

[dkf]

9. Are all tax exemptions/credits then social programs?

That's actually kind of ironic seeing that if a government didn't collect taxes, then you would be in the same position of not paying taxes without a social program.

Are muni bonds then social programs? Iras, 401ks, deferred compensation, insurance policies, retirement plans, special dividend and capital gains rates? Gosh everything to do with money seems to be a social program. You could list the entire tax code practically!

Hey that means everyone who doesn't love government is a hypocrite.

[provis99]

10. It's called Craig Nelson syndrome.

remember his drunken, adle-brained talk with Glenn Beck?
"I've been on food stamps and welfare, did anybody help me out? No."
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/29/glenn-beck-and-craig-t-ne_n_208918.html

[Rex]

15. Of course! See, when THEY use the system it is NOT socialism!

But when YOU or I use the system...COMMUNISM, MARXIST, ATHEIST TRASH! I use that one a lot to end conversations with ignorant locals when they spout how the blacks/hispanics are getting all this govt money for FREE...but it is THEIR tax money so THEY don't like it! Really? Hey, ain't your sister cripple and on Medicaid? ER...YEAH BUT.

Yeah but...that is as far as they get then it is conversation over, eye to eye look of shame and off I go!